(Topic ID: 108377)

The Official Pinside Kevin Kulek Skit-B Predator Discussion


By Xerico

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

86 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #12066 What is PACER and where are you getting the court documents? Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12502 Links to where Kevin gives "his side of the story". Posted by BillySastard (2 years ago)

Post #12515 Updated court filings. Potential cash coming into bankruptcy estate. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12528 Good summation of 2 year look back and possible fraudulent transfers. Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #12580 More legal pleadings. Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #12593 Facts & allegations document for VirtuaPin Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #12801 Photos of Experts of Dangerous Posted by fastpinball (2 years ago)

Post #12872 Enaud's account of contacting fox regarding skit-b Posted by Enaud (2 years ago)

Post #13034 Description of an adversary proceeding (or AP) Posted by jasonp (2 years ago)

Post #13477 Discharge of debt denied by order Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13483 Stipulations for waiving chapter 7 discharge Posted by Compy (2 years ago)

Post #13528 Audio recording from Jan 27 court hearing regarding bankruptcy filing Posted by Wolfmarsh (2 years ago)

Post #13729 Summary of legal bankruptcy terminology Posted by Razorbak86 (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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1 month later
#594 4 years ago
Quoted from NinJaBooT:

Hey Chicken Little, this has been put to rest already! The licence doesn't allow certain forms of advertising. Get over it

Did SkitB/Kevin actually say that they aren't allowed to mention Predator on their website, or was that just Pinside speculation? I know Kevin has stated they have the license to make the game, but I didn't remember seeing any official explanation for its notable absence from the website.

#596 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

Not that I'm aware of, I believe it was just an assumption by everyone. He did say the license is fine so that would lead us to believe he is not allowed to market it.

This seems like one possible explanation, though pretty odd when you think about it (why would a license holder demand that the end product not be advertised?) Not trying to rehash this topic. I know it's been discussed to death already, and since production seems to be going forward, not sure many buyers really care what the story is so long as they get their games.

But NinJaBooT's "Chicken Little"/ "this has been put to rest" post made me think that Kevin has actually explained somewhere that Fox won't let him put Predator on his website even though the game itself is still authorized. If that's the case, I'd be interested to read it!

3 weeks later
13
#681 4 years ago
Quoted from Iamdarras:

I'd just like my deposit back..

You should request it in bi-weekly installments.

#701 4 years ago
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

I had to have moved up from #77, that was the number I had a year ago. Who knows with the flakey way Skit-B does business, Im sure people that weren't in from the beginning managed to get around some of us that have been in from the get go. Who would know though cause the communication sucks.

Isn't it better to have your game ship later anyway, so that if any issues pop up in the early games they can be addressed in yours before it is made?

2 weeks later
#792 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I may love #2, but right now ... I ONLY care about #1

Heh heh.

#835 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Or how about Stern incomplete code threads. Predator code was complete years before the pin.

Nice! So you can have your machine with slapped-together code now, or complete code but no machine to play it on, but not both ...

#863 4 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

To make game #2 a sold out hit, Kevin would need to employ the exact same level of hype, interest, enthusiasm and excitement that he did for Predator: which is now impossible. Theme aside, the ability for Kevin and Skit-B to rally hundreds of thousands of dollars in advance again was lost when the situation Predator forced him underground. Even if he were to change tone, ship every Predator, and then come out and talk about EOD, people would question why/how he is suddenly available to speak and be on pinside.

The theme is a bigger problem than you say. Obviously SkitB has to actually start making and shipping Predator if they want anyone to give them money ever again. But if they had the Aliens license and were doing a limited run (say 200 machines) I bet they could still generate some solid pre-order business because people would be concerned about the scarcity of a "must have" theme.

With EOD, you've got a poorly received theme, all the downsides of preordering, and then on top of that SkitB's track record of delays and poor communication. But the later two don't matter if people aren't excited about your theme. It goes back to why most pinball machines are now licensed themes -- it's an easy and relatively cheap way to build excitement about your game.

#870 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I think Kevin is really lucky in that the Predator theme is the only thing keeping him going here, I would have been out long ago but I just can't take the risk losing out on a Predator Pin

This is the point I was trying to make above -- license a killer theme and limit your production run, and people will put down serious deposit money and put up with a hell of a lot for fear of being unable to get one after they're released.

#876 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Just thought I would mention that I have been in contact with Kevin recently via email. All appears good to me, but I urge buyers to make contact with him for yourselves if in any doubt due to the speculation in this thread.

Or just wait for the next bi-weekly email.

#955 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

This whole idea sounds good on paper until the part where a buyer has to convince his wife to get a game featuring giant boobs AND Nazi symbolism

Maybe include an LOTR LE style hidden cock on the translite to even things up?

#1032 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I just found out I can set up my account to ignore the ignore feature so I can see all the tastefully shot pictures of Kate.
But I wonder if tilt is the correct thing to warn against Kate Upton pics, I mean does this count again my carma points and will I get penalized for posting a beautiful woman?
Don't forget CFTBL Is as risqué as the picture I posted. PG-13 at worst.

Tilt does not count against your karma or put you on a blacklist of some kind. As the mods point out every time this comes up this is not a judgment that your post is unnaceptable, just that it may not fit in a business environment. It's a courtesy to others to tilt your own boob posts (as well as others' boob posts) so that those that don't want to see them won't. Nothing more!

1 week later
#1307 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's not that hard, it's a small hobby. They sent me the same email last week. My email address isn't hard to come by. Especially if you're someone who's bought a mod from me. Actually, the email address they used is one I mostly use for Paypal stuff, so that's probably it.

Should we be feeling left out if we didn't get a top secret anonymous email?

#1322 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I specifically attempted to reach out to PBN after getting an email from the alias assuming that if? they have a story "on the record" then they would likely be willing to talk with me as they supposedly gather 'facts'. PBN did not reply to my email, which makes it even that much stranger that they are named by the anonymous guy from TX.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I only mention PBN since Mr. anonymous has made it clear that PBN is affiliate with him. Also, the lack of PBN to reply to my inquiry is not a good sign in my POV. If you are building a story and you are contacted by an interested party, you typically at minimum would reach out to say 'no comment currently' I found it pretty odd that it did not deem a reply, don't you.

What facts do you have to contribute to the story such that PBN would want to contact you? Remember that the "story" here is whether SkitB still has the necessary licenses and resources to make the 250 Predator games it promised buyers, not whether some guy in Texas contacted Fox to fact-check SkitB's public assurances that it has the Predator license.

Ultimately, PBN has to stand behind whatever story it publishes. It seems pretty unlikely that they'd source a potentially very serious story solely based on "emails from an anonymous guy in Texas" so I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over that.

#1361 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I just went to Skit-b's web site. No mention of the Predator pinball. Really, no mention that they are even making a machine. Also no mention of the Mythbuster's machine. Now, if you're a startup company and have these licenses you would have it plastered all over your site. You don't need a calculator to do the math on this one IMO.

Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

Yeah, it's weird that they've wiped their own site clean of any mention they're actually trying to build and sell pinball machine. That's sad, hate to see this happen to pinball, again.

Is this the same way it's been for months with no mention of Predator (which led to a firestorm months ago and ultimately Kevin's reassurances that he does have to Predator license but follow-up from someone that talked to him suggesting he wasn't allowed to publicize it)? Or is there now no mention of pinball at all on the SkitB website?

#1440 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

SkitB knows EXACTLY what the issues people are having are. Here's the simple message they would have sent (if they could):
"Folks, lots of rumors floating around the internet- no surprises there! We are behind schedule, but we are busting our butts to make this game. While I cant promise a delivery date, here's what I CAN promise:
1. We are making a Predator pinball machine
2. We have a license to do it."
Bam, end of story.

Quoted from Jvspin:

He has said this repeatedly, people choose not to believe him. Which is their prerogative.

I am not in on the preorder and haven't seen SkitB's latest emails, but given the $hit storm here over the last few days it sure doesn't sound like they included anything close to a direct statement that the license is 100% secure and production is proceeding. Of course some would not believe it, but it would certainly be reassuring to those in on the preorder (assuming it's true, of course).

#1444 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

People... get your money while you can... So crazy to me that there are those who have not done so.

I don't know how it has worked in the past but it sounds like refunds are not being readily granted now (unless things have changed in the last few weeks):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion/page/17#post-2243241

So no need to rub salt in people's wounds.

#1448 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

How is asking people to get their money back rubbing salt in their wounds? Obviously the ones that have requested it have done everything they can. I speak of the ones holding out for a happy ending.

You said "get your money while you can" and "so crazy" that some "have not done so." If refunds aren't being given, your advice might as well have included getting a time machine and heading back to a happier time when people could back out of this project at will. Not much help to anyone now. Hence the salt.

#1582 4 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

I am not a cop or a legal expert, but does it get to a point where this becomes theft? Is there a certain amount of time where a company legally has to refund someone after the refunding request is made and after that time it becomes a crime if the refund is not given? I am not saying this is the case with Skit-B but I am curious

Probably not "theft" but the buyers might have a legal right to get their money back, and could sue (civil court, not criminal) to try to get it. It would depend on 1) the agreement (either written or verbal) between SkitB and the buyer, and 2) state law, which will determine how the contract is interpreted (and could even make some provisions of the contract invalid -- as an extreme example, a contract selling someone into slavery would not be enforceable even if all the parties agreed to it). The buyers would need to argue that SkitB has violated the agreement by refusing to provide the refund (or failing to ship the game).

17
#1650 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

nope, still the same haters trolling for more reactions...

Given how disappointed you get with non-buyers making negative comments in this thread, I am always surprised to see you popping up in MMr threads with nothing good to say. Undermines your point.

#1656 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

This is the first time this guy actually posted something factual...

If that's the case, give him a thumbs up and encourage him!

#1765 4 years ago

Thanks for posting this -- I hadn't listened to this podcast before but it was well done and seems to be a clear eyed and rational review of the situation here.

#1771 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

why can't kate show up at my door to offer to shovel the snow????

You couldn't afford it!

#1781 4 years ago
Quoted from the_one:

Can anyone give a short summary of these podcasts and any idea of their reliability?

First, I'd recommend listening to the Coast2Coast podcast, it's 40 minutes of time well spent.
http://www.coast2coastpinball.com/ [episode 142]

But he basically reviews the history of Predator project as reflected in the Pinside discussion threads over the past few years. He points out a number of "red flags" that raise serious questions about the status of the project (all of which have been thoroughly discussed here by now, of course) and then describes a recent email exchange with Kevin of SkitB.

So it's not new information, really, just a thoughtful summary and look-back at how this project has evolved and how truly serious the questions about it's ultimate success are now.

As I said, worth a listen!

#1785 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

Kevin has mentioned numerous times about their special arrangement with PayPal. That being said, I wonder if it would be easier to just contact PayPal and request a refund that way?

Makes sense that if you pay for something through PayPal, haven't received the item and cannot get a response from the seller, your next move would be to contact PayPal.

From a quick review of PayPal's policies, depending on whether this was classified by PayPal as a long-term "presale" situation, it's possible that PayPal may have kept some of the money paid to SkitB in "reserve" status (i.e. not available for withdrawal by SkitB), and it's also possible that the standard 90/180 day limits to challenge a transaction might not apply. Only PayPal could tell you if you're still able to get a refund through them or not.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/brc/presale-policy-and-reserves

#1795 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

what would worry me is he mentions multiple times about 'inside' info he heard but wasn't able to comment on

Yeah, whatever info he had that he wasn't comfortable disclosing didn't appear brighten his analysis of the publicly available facts. But I thought his discussion was really based on the publicly available info, and he did a good job of explaining why, in hindsight, the specific red flags that have popped up over time are really troubling (as well as why many of them may not have thrown people at the time).

#1861 4 years ago
Quoted from Pubaw:

That podcast dude says right at the 3 minute mark, "I have additional facts and information but I decided not to share it in this podcast".

To be fair, he also explained why he wouldn't share it -- some was "second hand rumor" that he wasn't comfortable sharing, some "first hand" but told to him in confidence. Seems like a reasonable decision for a journalist to make.

That said, under those circumstances maybe you're right that it's better not to mention the "secret knowledge" at all, instead of referring to it but refusing to discuss it directly.

#1893 4 years ago
Quoted from DrStarkweather:

Im not sure how anyone can get behind EoD after this whole mess. Im really pulling for SkitB on this, but who would sign up for this roller coaster ride a second time?

I don't think anyone is behind EoD.

#1920 4 years ago

I'll take "Famous Titties" for 800, Alex.
Sean

#1924 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

I have some moobs for 100

Which begs the question: are you Team Mansierre or Team Bro?

#1975 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

If you FUND your paypal with a CC, are you still able to use the buyers protection you may have with your CC issuer?

Short answer is yes:
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide

But whether it will ultimately work probably depends on your CC company's chargeback policy (i.e. do you have to do it within X time of the payment, do they have a special policy regarding Paypal payments or preorders, etc.)

#1979 4 years ago

Oops

#2077 4 years ago
Quoted from oopsallberrys:

just for the record, I emailed Kevin twice in the past 2 weeks and got responses a couple of days after each email.

Can you recommend terms to avoid using to get past his seemingly hyperactive spam filter? Clearly the term "refund" results in a straight to trash ...

#2180 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

And if anyone watched the first season of True Detective...

alexandra-daddario.jpg

Agree 100%, however there's no second season of True Detective yet and for all we know she'll be a cross-over character. Also, what's with all the blood?

#2181 4 years ago
Quoted from PorkChopExpress:

When is the TWO WEEK deadline up?
Gonna mark it down and comeback on D-DAY.
Cheerstwoweeks.jpg

St. Patrick's Day.

#2336 4 years ago
Quoted from Jetzxi:

Some good stuff is coming real soon (not this weekend) but real soon and no I am not speculating......

Since you've got the inside scoop, when's it coming? And what is it? And most importantly, why the heck is SkitB sitting on good news if it has got good news to share?!?

#2338 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Even if this "good news" is as Ted alluded to, an updated license with FOX that clears up the previous murky licensing issues- I don't see how that in any way clears up the issue of him blatantly ignoring customers who've been asking for refunds for several months in some cases. He's refused to even acknowledge them, but he has time to chat with Ted to get out a self-serving "gimme 2 more weeks" when things were getting toasty here.
THAT issue has nothing to do with licenses or website or manufacturing. THAT is a simple question of trustworthiness and business ethics and common courtesy.
Not sure how ANY announcement walks back all that....

You'll get no argument from me that announcement (and legit proof) of a solid license would do nothing to address SkitB's epic failings in communication and respect for customers. What it would do is provide massive relief to the buyers, in that if the project fails, it wouldn't be due to legal action by the IP holder. But that would be pretty temporary if the no communication/no pictures/no progress trend continues ...

Regardless, I posted what I did because I wanted to see if Jetzxi legitimately has some good news to share. He seems pretty sure of it so I assume he's heard something he believes is reliable, but it would still be completely insane if SkitB is sitting on good news at this point.

#2752 4 years ago
Quoted from bigduke13:

Not disagreeing that this has become a mess but it shocks me how personal some of the attacks have become. Does anyone really think Kevin's done all this to scam people? Of course not.

No evidence of a scam, but there is now powerful evidence of lies about the status of the project. If someone had $5k of your money and you found out he'd been misleading you for months about what was going on with the project you bought in on, wouldn't you consider that a personal afront? I think that's where the "personal attacks" are coming from.

#5139 4 years ago

Good wishes to the ~180 folks that still have money in on Predator. Here's hoping against hope that Kevin comes through on his current promise to refund all money within the next few days. But I'm glad to see that efforts are underway to pursue whatever can be salvaged from the wreckage if the latest promise also proves false. Best of luck and know that despite the heated bickering in this thread, the overwhelming majority of Pinsiders are hoping that you recover most or all of your money as quickly as possible.

#5191 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Paging Martin....
That itself is a big story...a competitor company taking Skit-b down. Fox denies Skit-b the license after he tries to apply for one because they refuse to work with an idiot who tried to pull a fast one on them. This is genius..at least diabolical.

Nice suggestion but you forgot your Journalism 101 and buried the lead. Here's your headline:
Fox denies Skit-b the license after he tries to apply for one because they refuse to work with an idiot who tried to pull a fast one on them.

Or better yet:
Fox sues idiot who tried to pull a fast one on them.

The rest of this stuff about the motives of anonymous sources is just background noise so long as what they were saying was true (which it apparently was). Might be an interesting side-note to this story some day in the future when the real issues are resolved (like where's the money and how will the buyers be getting it back), but that day doesn't seem too close at the moment.

#5419 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

He interjected himself into the damned issue when he came here and proclaimed loudly and professionally that he had seen the license, and he wouldn't be involved in any project that wasn't fully licensed.
He would have been way more helpful if he would have understood that his job was just to make cabinets and had not come here to do damage control for Kevin - with incorrect information.
His involvement in this certainly gave cover to Kevin to further engage in his fraud.

I agree 100% with your assessment of the impact that his showing up in this thread had (and same goes for FAST). But he did not explicitly say he saw the license - he said he wouldn't do business with an unlicensed product. Of course many (reasonably) inferred from his post that he had seen the license, and the end effect of his confident statements was the same - reassured buyers and shut down discussion re: Kevin's odd behavior. I just think it's important to carefully describe his posts given the high stakes here.

18
#5570 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

3. Trust, but verify.
Blame is 100% on Kevin. However, I'm a firm believer in the mantra:
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

Uh, I believe that's "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ... can't get fooled again."

#5607 4 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

Roger has been in this business for a VERY long time. He has connections with pretty much every company that a pinball or gaming company would need to be in touch with. I guarantee if he was called early on he could have salvaged this even after Kevin had screwed up so badly. Look, at the end of the day it all boils down to money. Fox doesn't care what license you want to use as long as you are willing to pay what they want for it. So could roger still save this? Probably......

Not so sure about this. Given the long history of deceit by SkitB/Kevin, and especially his behavior even after receiving C&D communications from Fox, it's hard for me to imagine Fox granting him a license of any kind at this point. But it's all meaningless speculation since even Kevin has now admitted that the game won't be built and the only course forward is refunds.

#5609 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

May I suggest Anonamyass instead? Rolls off the tongue much easier...for me anyway.

Let's keep your private life out of this!

#5615 4 years ago
Quoted from Code_Blue:

...and yet, that's exactly what seemed to happen. Obviously this was not some huge elaborate multi-year ruse to bilk people out of some money he would eventually have to refund in full.
The facts in front of us are that this guy a) was delusional enough to believe he could make 250 pinball machines on his own his garage, and b) was delusional enough to believe he didn't need a licensing agreement from FOX.
I can understand being delusional about (a) , especially since everyone who gave him money were just as delusional. But (b)? As you said, that takes an incredible, incredible lack of connection to reality.

Unless he knew he was proceeding illegally from the start and that he would be hosed if Fox caught him, but though he could get away with it. That's still a crazy thing to do from a risk/reward perspective, and is inarguably fraud on his purchasers. But it seems more plausible than that he thought he was legally entitled to just do whatever he wanted with the Predator material and was simply shocked to learn in December 2014 that the United States has enforceable intellectual property laws.

#5694 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Dude, no point. I tried to explain my thoughts on this whole thing "NOT" being a scam but really a mismanaged project.

Maybe try rebranding it as a "mismanaged project ... with massive lies peppered in from the get-go to attract and retain buyers." Or you could stick with "oopsie" (as someone suggested above).

#5852 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I'm pretty sure Kevin will issue refunds ... you simply get a refund back which I'm sure Kevin is working out right now.

Everyone on Pinside is really hoping things work out exactly as you say, but I have to wonder how you can feel so sure that Kevin will be issuing full refunds given everything that has happened here.

If you're planning to front Kevin the money to cover the gap between remaining funds and what's owed to the buyers, you'll be an instant Pinside hero! Short of that, how the hell can you be sure of anything based solely on Kevin's statements? To quote Phil Collins, "it's all been a pack of lies."

#6092 4 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

The only person we need to hear from now is Kevin. Not PBN, not AG - Kevin. Like AG said, focus should be on Kevin - we've heard enough from PBN and AG and this drawn out PR affair. My advice to Kevin, work with Robin to create a post on Pinside.

Does anyone really want to hear from Kevin at this point? What could he say that would make anyone any better off than they are right? All that's left to do is refund the buyers (if he can and will) or sit back and wait for the lawsuits to commence. I sincerely hope Kevin goes with quick and full refunds as he promised in his last email but that seems improbably under the circumstances. In which case, what would be the use of another mass-email from Kevin?

#6095 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Umm, YES. He needs to answer all of these questions:
-How much money was spent?
-Do you have an official accounting of where every penny was spent?
-What percentage of money collected is remaining?
-Are the funds in your personal bank account(s), PayPal, or both?
-Are there any hurdles to refunding the money that is left? (i.e. PayPal freezing funds, CC co's chargebacks, etc.)
-Did you ever actually form a legal business entity and if so, where was it registered?
-Will you now admit there was never a license? If not, please tell folks the name of even one person at Fox you were working with to approve artwork as you suggested numerous times.
-What will become of all the parts that have been purchased to build the "10 games" you noted?

Why? What's the point? It would be interesting reading for sure but it's far too late for Kevin to salvage his reputation by "coming clean." And even if he responded to your list of questions, how could you possibly believe the answers?

All that matters is getting the money back to the buyers. Either Kevin starts refunding the money immediately, or the lawsuits commence and this whole mess gets slowly and messily resolved in court.

#6500 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

If Kevin was an ongoing business, he would need to fight these. You get too many and you can lose your ability to take credit cards, then again, he is relying on paypal, so he has no direct connection with a CC/Bank or merchant processor, other than PayPal, which has obviously shut him down. Kevin would have had a hard time getting a regular merchant account give the nature of the business. Only a few companies take on high risk accounts like that, and typically the percentage/fees are significantly higher.

I'd think the main thing Kevin would be concerned about is all of the chargeback fees/penalties that Paypal is going to slap him with. That's yet more money he'll have to make up out of his pocket if he still plans to issue full refunds. Of course if he's headed for bankruptcy anyway it may not matter to him anymore.

#6511 4 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

I had this crazy idea to reach out to Martin who's just another human who loves pinball. I've put my email and his response below.

Obviously no bad intentions on your part here but it's always a good idea to think twice before cutting and pasting personal correspondence (emails, PMs, etc.) onto a public forum.

#6552 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Instead of an update from PBN on this, the hottest and most relevant story to the future of pinball, we get a story on a "new" game the Scoregasm. Seriously PBN? That's 4 stories and a week and a half since breaking the story and you're yet to report any update?

As you know (since it was posted in response to one of your posts about PBN), Martin has already told someone by email he's working on a follow-up article and that it'll come soon:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion/page/130#post-2352210

But I really don't know what you're expecting here. Do you think PBN is sitting on another goldmine of information not available to the public? And what could PBN possible reveal that would make any difference at this point? Kevin's word cannot be trusted and refunds are not being issued. The only logical course for buyers is to take all possible steps to retrieve their money ASAP, which has been obvious to everyone at least since Kevin "came clean" and admitted the game would never be made. Certainly more quotes from Kevin aren't going to clear anything up - who could believe them?

Meanwhile, enough with the complaints that every PBN headline isn't Predator related. It's "Pinball News", not "Predator Bust News".

#6568 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I strongly suspect he communicated with Martin for a couple days after the initial article.

What's the basis for your suspicions?

Quoted from PinChili:

I'm also confident that it should be possible to prove one way or another if he has gotten a lawyer. Report it!!!

Unless and until a lawyer issues a statement or files something in court on Kevin's behalf (as you say, no definitive proof that anyone has filed against him yet) I don't see any easy way to prove this either way. And if proved, how is it news that someone publicly being accused of fraud and IP infringement hired a lawyer? I admit that "SkitB founder insanely proceeds without counsel" would make for a good headline ...

Quoted from PinChili:

Also, I would think it should certainly be possible to provide an update on whether Fox has filed any litigation in the matter? Is there any reason to think criminal charges are being pursued?

Go look on PACER and whatever the electronic filing system is for state courts in Michigan. If criminal charges were filed there would likely be a press release. If you don't find anything, all that means is that they haven't filed anything yet. They have years to proceed with a case if they want to.

Quoted from PinChili:

I'm sorry, but there is so much that could be reported on right now I'm shocked you don't think there is the need for an update.

Just because you want answers "right now" doesn't mean PBN has them to share. I see lots of speculation in your list of questions, and even if PBN decides to run them all down, if the answers come back "well, not yet" or "too soon to say" then there's no story to report.

But since you don't approve of the way PBN is allocating its limited reporting resources, why not pick up the phone or do some googling and do your own reporting? If it's as easy as you say to find out all of this information, I'm sure you'll be back with answers in no time, and will be a Pinside hero. Of course the buyers will be no closer to receiving their money back ...

#6579 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Facts: There is zero pending (or closed) litigation that has been filed in Michigan either against Skit-B (or SkitB) or even Kevin Kulek directly. None. Free search here:
http://courts.mi.gov/opinions_orders/case_search/pages/default.aspx
The are zero federal cases opened (or closed) against Skit-B, SkitB, or Kevin Kulek. I signed up for a Pacer account and paid for the searches. Nothing.
So NO, Kevin is not currently being sued by anyone. If he has hired a lawyer it would be strictly for advice, not to defend himself against anything.

So you're insisting that PBN immediately run a story saying that it appears Kevin hasn't been sued yet and that we can only guess as to whether he's hired a lawyer? That's not much of a story.

#6587 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Why are you still trying to gang up on me? Let it go. I'm sorry I thought there should have been a follow-up article by now. It's more than clear you disagree. Got it. Go find someone else to attack.

Wasn't intending to "gang up" on you, others apparently responded the same way I did to your repeated efforts to "call out" PBN for not reporting this story to your standards. Get off of PBN's back and I'll happily stop responding to your posts!

#6617 4 years ago
Quoted from MaxGain:

I too am treading lightly so I do not get "ejected" or "banned" . There have been many before us that proved "open communication" does not exist in a Predator thread.

Treading so lightly that you've been a member of Pinside for all of a week and this is only your third post.... I suppose you'll tell us that you spend that whole week catching up on the Predator threads?

#6766 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Stealing IP is what made pinball cool.

Interesting analysis, but when it comes to QuickSilver, you're forgetting the legal precedent that it's not IP theft if you erase the nips.

#6770 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

If Skit-B called the game "Hunter" it would have been more along the lines of what you are describing.

How about "the demon who makes trophies of men"?

#6835 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

Guy just needs to issue refunds before it gets worse for him.

Would be easiest for everyone, but if Kevin doesn't have all of the money to refund (which seems extremely probable) there's no obvious way for him to proceed. If he refunds 50% to each buyer, he'll just have a bunch of suits for $2.5k instead of $5k on his hands. Hard to see any road forward other than for this to play itself out through small claims and/or bankruptcy.

#6839 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Debts you incurred on the basis of fraud. The list goes on. But this is a breath of hope.

Better than nothing I guess, but even if the debts aren't dischargeable, you're left trying to collect from someone that just went through bankruptcy, presumably shedding most of his assets in the process.

#6882 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Did I completely miss folks discussing here the AG group's response to posts on here? I just now noticed on their Wordpress page that they put out another update

I was hard-pressed to read through this self-important dreck -- these guys may have done some useful investigation but they clearly didn't make it through Freshman Composition. But I guess the takeaway is that Edward Snowden is a member of AG? What a scoop!

-1
#6887 4 years ago

Whysnow said repeatedly that he was being contacted by an unnamed "group from TX." Not sure if that's what they told him or if he drew that conclusion himself.

#7059 4 years ago
Quoted from Cobra99:

praising a manufacturer who comes in here and bashes a competitors machine(Very unprofessional in my eyes).

There's no "machine" to bash and SkitB is plainly no longer a "competitor" to anyone. Also as noted a dozen times above Spooky did work on the Predator playfield which sounds more like collaboration than competition.

-1
#7603 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

So how much of the Preator money did Kevin Kulek spend on Masters of Diasters?
Did the MoD pin start after the first time Fox said stop?

No one knows. Even if Kevin answered your questions no one would (or should) believe him. If this goes into litigation some facts may come out in discovery, but the "full story" will probably never be known.

#7639 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Source?
I find this statement difficult to believe

Not quite what you're asking, but here's Roger Sharpe saying that all pinball licenses he's negotiated cost "far less than" $100 per machine.

http://pavlovpinball.com/pinball-licencing-101-how-much-why-and-harry-potter/

If Kevin were able to negotiate like Roger (ha!) he'd have been paying something less than $25k to Fox for the whole project. Of course he'd also have had to comply with licensing requirements for the design, actually pay for the music, etc ... All a total pipe dream in Kevin's case, of course.

#7662 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

No offense to Rodger or anyone else in pinball. The hardest part of producing a pin is setting up and building 250 games, not getting the license, designing the game, promoting, selling, or shipping. I doubt anyone would disagree.

If your point is this dude was never going to build 250 pinball machines with or without IP rights, I definitely agree. I just posted that in response to someone's question about theoretical licensing costs. All irrelevant here of course because Kevin chose to go with an "imaginary license." Much cheaper and saves you the hassle of getting work approved by the IP holder, but the end results can be ... uneven.

#7972 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Well he did mention that he will get back into pinball as he still believes in the Predator project The last article from pinballnews he said something about not ruling out that option...

Quoted from nintendo:

It's a little bit crazy to think that he'll do future projects (potentially continuing Predator) and not tackling the refund issue first. Insanity!

He won't. He said he would, but then Kevin has said a lot of things. If you're still giving any weight to his words at this point, I'm not sure what to say to you.

14
#7976 4 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Not posting updates as of yet as the detective asked me not to. Dont want to give free info to kevins attorney. All i know is the wheels are finally turning.

Good call, as tempting as it is to keep the info flowing, sharing details of the investigation/prosecution on a public forum that Kevin and his lawyer will likely be following seems like a bad idea.

#7999 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yes, first the go to the PayPal account. If there is anything there, they take it. If not, they go after Kevin. First through PayPal, then a collection agency.

By "they" you mean PayPal, right? As I understand it PayPal is required to refund the CC company regardless of whether there's money in Kevin's account, and then PayPal has to try and recover from him. But assuming there's still money in the PayPal account, each chargeback is deducted (along with a $20 fee, apparently).

1 week later
#8231 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

No, no, no! Proof that he planned to con people right from the start! BIG difference.

It sounds like you're thinking of the criminal case (where the court will certainly be considering Kevin's intent). But his customers can't "bring" a criminal case against Kevin, even though many would surely like to! What they can bring are civil law suits to recover payments made in exchange for a product that was never delivered, and which Kevin has plainly stated he now cannot and will not make. Kevin's "right from the start" intentions don't mean much in that context.

#8277 4 years ago
Quoted from playboywillis:

We'll see. Money's been in my account for 3 weeks, but still pending. We'll see.

Did you do a credit card chargeback as well?

#8284 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

The ONLY $ anyone is getting back is from credit card chargebacks. Paypal is denying all claims, but can't do anything when it comes to creditcards.

I thought playboywillis might have been in a different category based on some of his other comments (sounds like he was, sort of, having used a debit card instead of a credit card, but of course that still has the VISA guarantee that a direct account withdrawal through PayPal does not). Glad he was able to get his money back at least.

#8300 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

You call doing this for 10 year's knowing they were in violation of the law? One simple email makes it ok?? How much $$$$ did they steal from artists and subscribers in that time?

Did they steal money from their subscribers?

1 week later
#8403 4 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

[EDIT: details removed on Crash's sound advice]

Be cautious posting details from the investigators here, you're passing information along to other buyers but also to Kevin.

#8443 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Next Tuesday. I'll be there. I hope Kevin will...

Good luck! Are you driving all the way up to MI for this or do you have a lawyer appearing on your behalf? Either way, hope it goes well for you.

#8480 4 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

Wouldn't that be some shit if he never sold it to anybody in Michigan on purpose?

I think that's giving him far too much credit.

1 week later
#8723 4 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

Checked out awhile back...is this a legit rumor? Where is this coming from?

Here's the source:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion/page/170#post-2465457

Long story short, Kevin's still hinting (through his lawyer) that there might be a chance of securing the license and making games. Is he just blowing smoke as a further stall tactic or does he believe his own horsesh*t stories at this point? Hard to know, but who cares really? There's no way Fox would ever grant this clown a license at this point and he's made it abundantly clear that he lacked the ability to make games in these numbers even if he had a license.

#8752 4 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

I think a better track would be to contact Fox and see if you can get a statement that no license is or will be produced for Kevin. With that evidence you'll be set to site those consumer protection laws I pointed out earlier as a roadblock to him producing the merchandise, and thus, his inability to deliver. Thus, warranting your refund.

It sounded like the small claims judge wasn't swayed by that BS and still issued a judgment in your favor for your full payment though, right? Not that it would hurt to get another statement from Fox, but it may not be necessary to get a small claims judgment.

Of course getting paid on those judgments is another matter, which may be where bankruptcy comes in.

#8963 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I think PayPal is going to refund everybody based on the fraud committed. Like I said, I know the process was initiated months ago because I was asked to help with the forensic acctg
That's what is happening now. It isn't Kevin or his lawyer pushing the magic refund button
They have zero access to paypal

But would Paypal really want to be the ones deciding who gets refunds and who doesn't if the funds aren't all there still? At the very least there must be a chunk missing from all the chargeback fees. Hard to even guess what's going on here ...

2 weeks later
#9273 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I'd like to sue Kevin if someone doing so could PM me with details. I'm one of the people suing Jpop. Similar question about joining the FB group.
Thanks.

PM Whysnow, he's coordinating Kevin's victims and could probably offer the latest information.

You could also contact the lawyer that's posted in this thread offering to represent people (I'm assuming that since you're in London your not interested in visiting Michigan to represent yourself in small claims court as enaud did):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion?tq&tu=KeithinMI#post-2507331

#9275 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Thanks. Yes, I contacted Enaud, and unfortunately I couldn't do a small claim as would have to attend in person. Helluva reason for a holiday though

Yeah, I figured that route wouldn't really apply to you unless you're actually located in London, MI! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Township,_Michigan

1 week later
#9356 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

So.. the key difference between a site "hosting illegal hacks and recreations" and your vpforums.com is a simple "OK list"? A list that vpforums guys created based on criteria vpforums invented?
You're a nice guy but your comment above is so f'd up I can't even swallow it. There is NO difference between "your" site and others like it except a difference of opinion as to what is too old to pirate. And apparently the other guys don't charge for access.

This ...

Quoted from Coyote:

He specifically stated that he got the 'OK' from the legal folks holding copyrights. That is the 'ok' list.

And also, the mods have asked that this remain a Skit-B thread and not devolve into unrelated discussion of the legalities of virtual pinball.

Quoted from Xerico:

NoahFentz and DeeGor, both of you have had your say.
If you want to continue your personal discussion, then move the discuss to PM.
Consider this a gentle reminder that the topic of this thread is Skit-B.
Move discussion back to the topic back to Skit-B.
Marcus

3 weeks later
#9421 3 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

Anyone know what the credit card companies are doing to recover their losses? I can't imagine they are happy to simply write off the money they've refunded to buyers?

Well it's Paypal that's out the money, not the CC companies -- the CC companies bill Paypal for the chargebacks. Paypal then removes the chargeback amount (including any fees) from Kevin's Paypal account, or tries to withdraw it from his bank account if he's got one linked to the Paypal account. I imagine Paypal would only sue Kevin/Skit-B if the chargebacks exceed the Paypal funds, and if they believe that there's a decent chance he'll have some money to pay a judgment with. Otherwise they'll likely just write it off as a cost of doing business (for which they're probably insured).

1 month later
#9444 3 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

That's a bit of hyperbole....It wasn't "next thing you know" due to injustice. She fought the officer and used drugs while in jail (3x the legal limit of pot in her system). Not saying what happened wasn't a tragedy, but it was hardly due to injustice.

Is your point that it wasn't a total negative experience for her because at least she was able to score some weed in the can before she killed herself?

#9455 3 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

This hurts my brain, how can you deceive that which itself is a deception?

Things have grown truly strange in this thread. Anyone got a court filing to post?

#9491 3 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Credit card companies don't issue refunds from their cash, they get it from back merchants.
So they get it back from Kevin, usually deduct it from daily settlement, not sure what they do in this instant where he does not have charges coming in daily. Law suit?

I believe all credit card transactions were through Paypal (Kevin didn't have ability to do direct credit card transactions). So as you say the credit card cos have recovered their cash from Paypal (which likely paid off at least some of the chargebacks with funds from Kevin's Paypal account, if any, though this is speculation). I don't think anyone knows what, if anything, Paypal is doing to try to recover any shortfall from Kevin.

3 weeks later
#9768 3 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

So it's considered counterfeit, not stolen... For my own education, what are the ramifications of that (and the selling of counterfeit goods) to the buyer(s) of said counterfeit goods?
I can't imagine that owning counterfeit goods is 'ok' or 'tolerable' just because they aren't considered stolen goods? Surely Fox would have some sort of legal recourse to pursue the acquisition or destruction of infringing products, which is really what we're curious about no?

Confiscation of counterfeit goods is not unheard of (I've read of programs at airports grabbing fake purses and watches being carried out of China by tourists). Whether that would actually happen for a large item like this of which only a few were made and sold is a different question. The usual practice is probably to go after the counterfeiter.

#9818 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

And he open his trench coat and shows you hundreds of combs for sale.
LTG : )

If the sentence starts "And he opens his trench coat ..." you're getting off easy if all you see is combs.

#9942 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

the criminal side is probably the only side with any kind of satisfactory outcome

You do know that many owners lobbied hard (and unsuccessfully) to convince law enforcement to file charges against Kevin, right? Given the lackluster response from the detectives, do you really think investing time and energy pleading for a criminal action is more likely to pan out than a civil claim?

#9944 3 years ago
Quoted from asay:

It's possible. OJ Simpson got away in criminal court, but then got blasted in civil court.
lol comparing Kevin to OJ

Something tells me the glove would fit Kevin just fine.

#9946 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

How many pins will fit in a white Ford Bronco?

Three prototypes?

#9951 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I didn't say it was more likely to occur - only that the criminal side is the only one that would likely result in any satisfaction.
...
At least if a criminal case were successfully prosecuted - the guy would be labeled a felon which actually has pretty serious consequences even if he didn't spend any time behind bars.

Of course a criminal case would be satisfying in that it's pretty much costless to the victims and would likely be very painful for Kevin, even if he's broke. Unfortunately it's out of the victims' power to force a criminal case to go forward, and the statements from detectives reported months ago in this thread suggest that a criminal case is unlikely to happen. So it's not accurate to suggest that people pursuing civil claims have somehow "picked" that over pushing hard for criminal prosecution. They're pursuing one of the few clear options left to them in the face of police inaction.

Is $500 invested in a civil claim likely to pay off? Maybe not. Kevin's certainly not behaving as if he has the money to repay what he owes. But what else are Kevin's victims supposed to do? Walk away on the assumption that nothing but further frustration will come from this sorry mess? I respect that response and understand why some have chosen it. But I also get why some would pursue a civil claim, knowing full well that Kevin may never pay or may end up in bankruptcy, but viewing a legal judgment as a better outcome than Kevin simply getting off unscathed, and possibly sitting on some remaining Predator cash. To some it's worth $500 (not much in the world of legal expenses) to see this through and to hopefully achieve some legal if not financial vindication.

1 month later
#10047 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

ebay.com link » Star Wars Painting Original Darth Vader Luke Light Saber Duel Huge Big Large

s-l1600.jpg

Your silhouette work is impressive ... most impressive.

1 week later
#10084 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

We should hear from our Pinside lawyer friend to give us an update...

What vintage horror movie is your new avatar from?

spfxted

1 week later
#10105 3 years ago
Quoted from paulohotline:

Hey guys, a Future Pinball WIP of the Predator table is going to be available on http://www.vpuniverse today at some point once the admins approve it.
Check it out the thread here -> http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2267-escape-from-haunted-city/
Will update with download link once it becomes available.

predator_final_SCREENSHOT.jpg

Cool concept. What's the story with the Punisher skulls on the apron (or did Kevin throw those into his design as well)?

#10107 3 years ago
Quoted from paulohotline:

copyrights be damned!

That did seem to be SkitB's motto

3 months later
#10335 3 years ago
Quoted from Enaud:

Didn't get squat. Won the trial case, but he's shafted me on the money. I attempted to garnish his bank account but he emptied it out first. Probably all been spent on crack and hookers.
I spoke with the court and they said this is typically the way these court cases go. You win, but still can't collect the money. They either spend it all or hide it.

If you can find a few others with collectible judgments (I think you need three total?) you can force him into bankruptcy. That'd at least shake things up for him a bit.

#10342 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I thought he already did in November?

Really? I would have expected that to get more discussion here if true since it would impact all the preorder claims.

#10360 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Again I ask, why no face to face meetings?

Are you volunteering?

3 weeks later
#10386 3 years ago

Agreed, but how about we shelve the political/policy discussions.

16
#10391 3 years ago
Quoted from asay:

The overarching topic in this thread in the US legal system. Political talk is gonna happen.
Like Jack says, "If it ain't broke, it ain't pinball". I don't know how that quote is relevant though.

I would have said that the overarching topic of the thread is "Kevin is an @sshole!"

Look, this is a pinball site, and Robin made the right call banning political discussions, since they can quickly dominate any thread where they pop up. I know that I don't share political views with many folks here (and am always tempted to point out how foolish their positions are), but the rules help keep all of us focused on the thing we've got in common, pinball.

2 weeks later
#10458 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

He was on stage promoting it and was there when they were saying things like "we have the license". I don't think we ever heard the scoop on what led to the parting of the ways.

But it's not hard to guess ...

#10464 3 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

Mine is showing an Order of Dismissal a month after it was filed.
I emailed to see what's going on. Sounds like I'm hosed. Have to find another way I guess.

Do you have a lawyer? If so, contact them ASAP to find out what's going on.

#10482 3 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

the whole thing is just taking longer and costing the plaintiffs more money. Who's fault that may be is really irrelevant.

Switching venues will of course cost something in both attorney time and new filing fees. Whether that expense falls on the plaintiffs or the lawyer depends entirely on the fee arrangement. If they're paying him by the hour, plus administrative costs, plaintiffs may lose out (unless their lawyer agrees to reduced fees). If they're paying fixed-fee or a percentage of recovery, then any extra hours spent are the lawyer's problem, not his clients'. The only people that would know those details are the plaintiffs and the lawyer.

1 month later
#10620 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

discovery and depositions have provided all sorts of interesting things.

So Kevin was actually deposed in the civil case? Surprising that that wasn't mentioned in this thread when it happened. Have you seen the transcript of Kevin's depo? Based on how poorly he performs even in non-confrontational interviews, I imagine that would be a fun read.

#10862 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I said when he started he was on the up and up, he certainly did not have C&D letters at the start.

What does "on the up and up" mean? Does it include the inexplicable stupidity of thinking you don't need a license to use a massive IP like Predator on hundreds of items that you intend to sell for thousands of dollars each? How about deciding to design and take money for an unlicensed product because you're a small player and are unlikely to get caught even though you know you're taking a risk (with other people's money) if Fox finds out you're using its IP without permission?

Either way, Kevin apparently decided to act as his own lawyer on this one, and given that five minutes of googling would have definitively told him he was in the wrong, this seems like "dumb and dumber" at best and "fraudulent" at worst. "On the up and up" doesn't enter into it no matter how far back you look.

#10877 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

If he's indigent, he can get a court appointed Lawyer. Guess who pays for most of that?

In general, court appointed counsel is for criminal cases only. so unlikely to apply here unless the prosecutor has a change of heart.

#10894 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

In general, court appointed counsel is for criminal cases only. so unlikely to apply here unless the prosecutor has a change of heart.

Speaking of, just heard a news story about a teenager that was wrongly convicted of murder in MI, but his release was held up because he owed court costs and attorneys fees for his public defender. Evidently in MI those costs can be assigned to indigent defendants.

#10916 2 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Shirley you can't be serious.

Quoted from Taxman:

I am serious, and stop calling me Shirley.
I was going to do the same post yesterday but then realized when typing it out it is "surely". So it gets lost in type.

Heh, me too! Couldn't get over the Surely/Shirley hump. Glad to see I'm in good company here at Pinside.

2 weeks later
#11249 2 years ago
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:

What a dramatic, epic disaster. This is the worst side of what's supposed to be a fun hobby. I think this topic should be locked and closed for good. It serves no useful purpose.

If/when there's some outcome to the civil proceedings and bankruptcy, this is the thread for it. It's not a dead issue until that's all resolved.

#11256 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

also, this thread needs fisticuffs. Badly.

Let's settle for finger cuffs.

2 weeks later
#11530 2 years ago
Quoted from multibrawlr:

Yeah, just a warning saying that you might be susceptible to cases of mistaken identity/suspicion if you are relatively new to Pinside, and post in certain topics.
Plus it might also mention that you can avoid this by introducing yourself, being careful where you post, perhaps considering not keeping your profile private, or waiting a while before posting.

That all seems a little unnecessary. Obviously there was a snafu in this case but I cannot think of another recent example where a legitimate new poster (as opposed to a new handle for a Pinchilli or Kanada) jumped into a controversial thread with a fully-formed opinion and was falsely accused of being a shill account. That's very uncommon behavior for a new user, and usually Pinsiders have a decent sense for duplicate accounts based on posting style.

Put another way, I know if I'd seen that type of disclaimer when I first signed up I would have been intimidated to start participating, and would certainly have had questions about what goes on here!

3 weeks later
#11634 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Does the hourly rate listed to perform work for the trustee come off of the recovered funds or is it taxpayer funded?

Keith's pay comes out of the bankruptcy estate (i.e. the pot of money and other assets that is ultimately to be divided up among Kevin's creditors). It's an "administrative expense" (i.e. a cost of administering the bankruptcy) and, like the trustee's pay, comes off the top before any payments are made to the creditors. Obviously the hope is that through his work Keith will bring far more money into the bankruptcy estate than he is paid out in fees!

#11722 2 years ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Those pieces of shit stole my money, bought two Dodge Vipers (because the wrecked the first), took trips all around the world, bought 4 motorcycles, rented Lamborghini's and blew $20,000+ on strippers among other things.

At least they had fun with it. By all appearances Kevin bought a crappy house in a crappy town and set up his wife in a boring business she is destined to fail at. What a pathetic way to spend ill-gotten gains!

1 month later
#11868 2 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Does he owe money to other people besides the people he scammed with predator?

Almost assuredly. With few exceptions (e.g. student loans), outstanding debts don't survive the bankruptcy process, so everyone he owes money to including credit card debt, car loans, outstanding mortgages, the IRS, etc. is in line for their share of whatever assets are in the bankruptcy estate.

1 month later
#12001 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

You may check the most recent filing to see what happened today.

No show! Hopefully a court order (and threat of sanctions) will compel him to turn up next time ...

1 month later
#12619 2 years ago
Quoted from Brickshot:

Again, Just for clarification, you're not actually suggesting he did something illegal are you and the law is coming after him personally? If so, which law was broken exactly?

The law may not be "coming after him" exactly, but depending on what transactions did or did not occur and for what amounts, he may be required to return the (multiple?) Predator games he's now apparently got to Kevin's bankruptcy estate. And it's certainly possible that, smart or dumb though he may be, he will end up wishing he'd stayed well clear of this fiasco.

#12630 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

My only question is if you are dumb enough to try and make the games disappear before the court takes them back??? Hopefully you are not silly enough to risk your families well being by doing something dumb.

Let's not get carried away here. If the court demands their return, worst case he's going to be ordered to cough up the cash value if he cannot produce the machines. His "family's well being" shouldn't enter into the discussion.

#12690 2 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

For those people saying the games couldn't be sold because there is no license, I'm not so sure that applies... In the video game world, if the company making a game goes belly up before the game is complete. In liquidation from bankruptcy, the prototypes are sold, without the license to distribute. From my understanding, so long as the person buying doesn't assume the right to distribute additional copies of the games, it's fine. If there is no chance of selling the assets, why claim them? They must have a value.

Interesting. I would have thought that generally counterfeit/unlicensed goods would have to be destroyed rather than sold to benefit the estate. The image of a US Marshall overseeing auction of a warehouse full of fake Gucci purses and "Nikee" shoes seems off somehow. But maybe if Fox doesn't actively complain about injury to their brand -- seems unlikely they would waste any more time/money on this dumpster fire -- then the court just carries on and auctions off the proto-Predators?

You also make a good point that the court would presumably only be interested in pursuing assets if they are likely to generate money for the estate.

#12954 2 years ago
Quoted from Trekie:

I remember sitting in traffic court a few times where the defendant said he couldn't pay the fine. If you couldn't or wouldn't pay then it was X amount of dollars or X amount of days in jail.
Back then a day in jail = $7 a day towards the fine.
What's the going rate now?

Was this in 1959? They really should consider bumping up the dollars credited per day served, taxpayers paying hundreds a day to house someone on a two-bit traffic violation seems like a pretty poor use of resources.

10
#12962 2 years ago

I saw this and thought "great, one more acronym I don't know." But Google tells me you were likely referring us to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. I take it you've got fresh evidence that Kevin has fled to the Pacific Northwest and is living off the land (without a fishing license)?

#12964 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I saw it this AM and wasn't sure myself. How bout "was safe for work" ?

I like it! Your comment "was safe for work" circa 1985, but times have changed and with shifting workplace norms and standards of professional conduct, we're going to have to let you go ...

3 weeks later
#13894 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

My wife CONstantly wonders why I get so many boxes delivered and asks how I am paying for them. I even have a job, and she has received no formal wicca training! Yet the curiosity continues.

I believe you meant "the curiosity CONtinues" ...

#14039 2 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Thank you !!!
John

But can we trust your post since you didn't include your phone number?

#14088 2 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Absolutely. But the thing of it is that nobody calls any more. It's like people are afraid of talking on the phone these days. If you want to call and discuss feel free.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

Hold on, just let me find my calling card, know it's around here somewhere ...

#14093 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

I'll bet he ends the call in a Leslie Neilson voice:
"This has been John P. Dayhuff, Battle Creek, Michigan."

You omitted his killer closing line:
"269-979-3836"

1 week later
#14235 2 years ago
Quoted from PinFever:

most of the people in Florida and Florida schools are from other states making the Map seem incorrect to say the least to me.

Are you arguing that native-born Floridians have higher IQs than in-movers? What if the reverse is true?

#14239 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've been to Cuba a few times and those people are super smart.
JetBlue is running some specials FL to Cuba right now $150 round trip.
If you've never been, you really should see the place. Convert all your money to Euros BEFORE you go, use AirBNB to get a nice apartment for the week, and check the box that says "EDUCATION" on the reason for entry, for a no questions asked admittance.

Don't leave us hanging - did you receive an education?

#14303 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Yes, I am all caught up. I still want to know where the RV confiscation came from. We saw the written court order but nothing was mentioned on the 3 audio episodes.

There probably wasn't even a hearing regarding the RV because the owner didn't bother to file anything contesting the trustee's attempt to seize it. The recorded hearings concerned Kevin's continuing failure to comply with court orders to produce documents, and the RV isn't currently in Kevin's possession, so not surprising if it didn't come up.

2 weeks later
#14452 2 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

once a default judgement has been entered like this, is there any way out of it? Is there a way to appeal? Or is it a done deal no matter what and the RV, CNC, and printer are now the property of the trustee?

It's not good to take a default judgment. But if one of them came in soon (i.e. didn't wait so long that it seriously holds up the rest of the proceedings) with hat in hand and an excuse of some kind for failing to respond, there's a decent chance the judge would let them file something. Of course then they'd have to provide evidence for their version of events.

#14489 2 years ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

So if you're reading this Noah, what exactly have you done in the time between you posted that and now that has helped get people their money back?

Well he just took a default judgment and will be contributing a CNC machine and large format printer to the pot, so there's that!

#14544 2 years ago
Quoted from marcand:

Assless Chaps. ALL CHAPS ARE ASSLESS!

Not if someone's wearing them ...

1 week later
#14703 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Exchange rate is 19 pesos with Mexico right now. He might be the country's latest millionaire.

But that would imply that he's still got $50k. Kevin strikes me as more of the "thousandaire" type, regardless of what currency we're using.

#14764 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

You may not like it, but those two had a constitutional right to be there. They broke no laws as open carry is allowed in public places. The cameraman should have complied like the guy open carrying, but really he clearly stated his case. Once again, open carry may scare people in this day an age, but it is legal in many places. Get over it.

You don't have to break the law to give a policeman legal justification to shoot you. Reasonable cause to fear for his life or the lives of others will generally do the trick. Unless you've got the Michigan militia on the jury, most people would see an agitated idiot in a ski mask and vest brandishing a rifle in a police station as a credible threat. They don't have to wait for him to start shooting to take action.

Remains to be seen if these jokers will be convicted on any of the felony counts against them, of course.

#14780 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I don't know?
Here is her motion and the judge granted it.

Not too surprising - courts often allow people (especially people that seem not to know what they're doing) a mulligan on procedural issues like filing deadlines, especially if it won't screw up the rest of the case too much. Avoids later arguments that property was taken or rights lost "on a technicality."

#14812 2 years ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

Ok thanks, I guess we'll just have to stay tuned.....

The wheels turn slowly, even in bankruptcy!

2 weeks later
#15039 2 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

How much did the house go for? I'm tempted to buy it and throw a giant pinsider party.

Was the $25k a down-payment on a mortgage, or was that a straight-up cash purchase? Since it's worth so little I imagine the trustee will just auction it, though he could get an agent to try to sell it the traditional way.

#15122 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Who did they bribe?

More importantly what do they have left to bribe with now that their assets are on lockdown? Free photo shoot? Pirate makeover?

#15152 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Sometimes leniency can be called for if the perp in truly repentant and sorry. Keith to this day is neither, nor is his wife, so prosecuting them both civil and criminal court(If it comes to that) is warranted. I have a feeling only Keith would be prosecuted (and possibly jailed) with the wife receiving a significant probation. Of course there is the little matter of tax fraud and welfare fraud...

Keith is the trustee's lawyer. Kevin is your debtor/con man.

#15169 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Regardless of the state of Jpops games, he did deliver. This is the big difference and I'm not sure it will be handled the same way, if at all.

Kind of -- JPop "delivered" (with what amounted to divine intervention from AP) ~20 Magic Girls out of the several hundred(?) games he took money on. He has no apparent means or plan to satisfy the many remaining orders. This is obviously huge for the Magic Girl customers, but I'm not sure it makes a huge difference morally or legally.

I would suspect the bigger issues will be how JPop handled the funds and how he handles himself in court -- it would be hard to top Kevin in the self-inflicted wounds department.

#15184 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Meh, a good defense Lawyer can tear that theory apart.

Better Call Saul.

#15231 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

please please please let these clowns face criminal charges. You can't get blood from a stone... but you can throw that stone in a box and shut the lid. Based on these things, it looks like the wife should be facing her own fraud, perjury and more. The whole idea of "I play dumb, you can't get me" defense clearly wasn't researched well

There's a fine line between playing dumb and being dumb. They crossed that line long ago and don't appear to have looked back.

#15320 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Thank goodness they don't peek inside your tank to see the dye indicating road tax wasn't paid on that fuel.

Who knows what else Vid has hidden in that tank over the years ...

#15456 2 years ago

... but also subject to the "admission of party opponent" exception to the hearsay rule. Might be time to tell the insurance co that their client's "uh, I don't remember" won't beat your clear recollection of a heartfelt apology in court, and that you're looking for counsel.

#15474 2 years ago
Quoted from KeithinMI:

anyone have the quick link to VirutaPin's post about not producing cabinets for Skit-B unless they had a license? Been searching forum but can't locate
thanks

And here's a link to the specific post:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-pinside-skit-b-predator-discussion/page/10#post-2076728

1 week later
-1
#15671 2 years ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

Wow, you can tell someone on pinside that they are illiterate and there is no response from the mods, but you say rhymes with something and you get an eject. social-justice-warrior-uber-politically-correct much?

1 month later
#16004 1 year ago

Tranquillo, boys, tranquillo.

#16262 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Anything you put on Facebook becomes their property. For instance if you or your friends are good looking enough your pics can get resold as stock photos!

Not a problem here ...

#16265 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I cant find it readily. If anyone else has it, please post.

If someone posts it, please redact the kids. Does no one any good (including those with claims against SkitB) to post their faces.

#16311 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

And yes, you did hijack the thread.

Quite successfully, I might add.

#16357 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballsofsteel:

karma can be a son of a gun....

Quoted from dgoett:

wanted to post "Karma's a BITCH" but I think I'll stay out of it.

Sadly, in this world it rains on the just and the unjust alike. I imagine their neighbors that weren't running Ponzi schemes are equally soggy today.

#16393 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Do you real believe there is still cash hidden some place? I'm far more inclined to believe it has all been dispersed, between the house, the trailer, arcade equipment, laptops for the kids, food, utilities, camera equipment, vacations, funneled to other people, etc.

You left casinos and strip clubs off your list of ordinary business expenses. But I guess "etc." covers a fair amount of ground.

#16441 1 year ago
Quoted from aalucero:

I'm sure that reporter is getting a few emails
brianna.owczarzak@wnem.com

Bird dog 'em, Whysnow!

1 week later
#16748 1 year ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Zira's husband played by Roddy McDowall?
Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death.

When you think about it objectively, that was pretty sound advice ...

2 months later
#17254 1 year ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

The box fell off a passing truck.

I heard it was a mobile home.

#17282 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

One might even refer to it as "The Season of the Witch"!

"Beatniks out to make it rich" ... it's almost like Donovan saw all of this coming.

#17296 1 year ago
Quoted from c508:

Looks like Defendant James Bradley Piornak II will be settling soon.

Who's he?

#17334 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

It's pretty obvious in this thread who are friends with the Kuleks.

Maybe I'm slow but it's not obvious to me -- I would be surprised if any friends of Kevin's are still posting here, I thought they'd all evaporated form Pinside years back and are now heard from only at deposition.

13
#17362 1 year ago
Quoted from starfighter:

The law has a responsibility to track down everything regardless of costs.

In a bankruptcy? The trustee's job is to make practical decisions to maximize the value of the estate so the creditors will be made as whole as possible, not to ensure that everyone that "profited" from this fiasco is called to task. Spending dollars chasing pennies is not in line with that goal. Of course it may still be worth going after the Predator games and Predator parts if they're perceived to have some value. But if you're counting on the trustee to pursue "justice" for you regardless of the cost, you're in for disappointment. The trustee is just supposed to maximize the value of the estate, and that includes deciding that some claims aren't worth pursuing.

#17411 1 year ago
Quoted from starfighter:

There will not be enough funds to pay all of us back in full. My personal goal is for every person involved with Skit-B experience the maximum jail time possible, as much financial restitution to the victims as possible and a bonfire as large as possible.

All totally understandable wishes as someone that Kevin took money off of. But your list of goals does not align well with what is likely to come out of the bankruptcy case.

Quoted from starfighter:

every person involved with Skit-B experience the maximum jail time possible

The bankruptcy court will not be handing out criminal convictions or jail time to anyone, that's not what bankruptcy courts do and would be blatantly unconstitutional. So far, law enforcement has seemed pretty uninterested in this case.

Quoted from starfighter:

as much financial restitution to the victims as possible

This is roughly what the bankruptcy court will do, except with the less satisfying terms "distribution" and "creditors" (back to the point that bankruptcy courts are not focused on assigning blame and punishing bad behavior).

Quoted from starfighter:

and a bonfire as large as possible

The bankruptcy court is not interested in holding a bonfire unless it's going to somehow increase the pot of money to be split among Kevin's creditors.

Quoted from starfighter:

If the assets can be auctioned to benefit the victims, I'm OK with that. If the assets are deemed illegal and must be destroyed, I'm OK with that too as long as ALL the assets are destroyed. I don't want some games mysteriously popping up 4 years down the road because it's super rare.

Again, the bankruptcy court does not care about any of this. If there's not net positive money to be recovered for the creditors by pursuing certain assets/claims then the trustee will presumably ignore them.

2 months later
#17783 1 year ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Lol, that shit is funny right there. Your like 4'2 right?

He's actually 6'5", with the afro 6'9", pretty good dribbler.

1 month later
#17841 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

First screenshot is before translation, pictures 2 and 3 after.

Thanks for the translation, that's spectacular. "I blamed him for his child's chest, and let him ascend as well."

#17843 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm not defending that statement as it is definitely strange. But Google translator is an imperfect tool and words are often jumbled and/or misinterpted.

No doubt - I wasn't accusing you of performing a bad translation, I knew that was Google, but there's just some great stuff in there! Reads like bad Japanese soft-core porn interspersed with cell phone reviews. A fitting final chapter for the SkitB website.

1 week later
14
#17855 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

If I were Kulek, I would be watching my back for the rest of my life. I would be genuinely fearful that someone would be crazy enough to harm me.

Based on past experience, he probably knows that the worst he has to fear is people taking photos of his back at arcade auctions.

#17868 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Must of gotten lost in translation. There's something weird aboot your language.

Wait, are all of thelaw's posts google.ca-translated renditions of auto-generated Japanese squatter pages? This explains so much ...

#17878 1 year ago