when does he go to jail?
Wow this thread is hopping! No info on predator though huh? Are there only the 2 audio files? I thought the note to Tommydutch was condescending too BTW. Has nothing to do with inflection or anything. Dictating to someone that they are saying something wrong is condescending in nature no matter the tone. Condescending is normal though so let's keep these OT posts flying!
Quoted from vid1900:
You got an instant upgrade by getting rid of Betsy DeVos. That alone will raise the average Michigan student's IQ 13 points.
Get rid of Kevin's IQ and you guys might catch up with Florida....
Looks like we already have Florida beat. Heck, we would maybe even be on par with Wisconsin with further upgrades! Those guys in Wisconsin are super smart!
Quoted from DanQverymuch:
Woosh is right! Can anyone identify the *six* errors I placed intentionally in those two sentences?
Quoted from Crash:
Check out what the Kuleks left on the Nathanson Law Google business page.
What a shame. Keith has one rating, and it's the fake one star rating. ANYONE and EVERYONE represented by Keith needs to flood his Google business page with good reviews.
Looks like a job for the grammar police!
Quoted from Whysnow:
In short I doubt we get anyhing from the depositions last week unless there was a court recorder there. I am sure they are on tape but unlikely to be transcribed unless Keith has am admin with some downtime.
I can give a brief summary of how it went in my head.
Kulecks both show up in pajamas and wearing stupid hats they think make them look cool or more 'witchy'. They have noticably more tattoos than the last time they were seen in public. They both tell a few lies, get caught up in a few other lies from previous depositions, incriminate themselves futher for future pending criminal proceedings, likely toss a few more people under the bus (seems to be their current though process of how they think they will get out of this), and in general can't account for where the 500k went. They make excuses and blame others.
Luckily this all leads to more help for the trustee to identify and recover assests.
I am guessing the next thing to show up on Pacer will be more motions to start talking to a few more people that were sent money?
At this stage I think the trustee just works to find the money and go get it. The more they get, the better shot we all eventually see .50 on the dollar.
I can tell you right now that anything I recover will be used to send a gift to my favorite lawyer
Hey, is Keith doing this as a volunteer? I assumed he was getting paid but your comment about giving him a gift makes me re-consider?
Yeah he is selling a whole slew of super mint pinballs right now. Wish I had the coin to grab one or 2. Unfortunately, I chose engineering instead of law...
Quoted from c508:
I particularly enjoyed the parts where he notes that, by Defendant Amanda Kulek's own admission, she does not know the general meaning or specific legal meaning of many the terms and concepts she employed in her ANSWER.
Also, she is unable to identify legal authorities (statutes, cases precedent, employment or tax regulations) that support her affirmative defenses.
So, they could not afford a lawyer, so they filled the deposition out themselves. I believe most smart (non-lawyer) people would have trouble knowing general meaning or specific legal meaning to law terms and nomenclature. So, is anyone surprised by this? If anything, it seems like these findings would help get her old deposition thrown out (maybe this is a good thing for those in on Predator?).
Quoted from c508:
Ooops... now listening to Symphony No. 9 and realized I could have quoted a more applicable verse.
Freude trinken alle Wesen Every creature drinks in joy
An den Brüsten der Natur; at nature's breast;
Alle Guten, alle Bösen Good and Evil alike
Folgen ihrer Rosenspur. follow her trail of roses.
Even Debtor Kulek drank in joy (once)... now it is the creditors' turn!
Which is good and which is evil is a matter of perspective I suppose!
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:
I listened to Kathy's audio - I'm no lawyer but it seems like the judge should not have let her ramble on and on over stuff that is not relevant at all. I just don't understand why he didn't stop her.
I am thinking judges deal with all sorts of personalities and that Kathy's was not even that bad compared to most.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:
Agreed. In this case the truck is obviously wrong and taking up more than 1 spot, but if you don't plan on being surrounded by idiots like this (i.e. not backing in to allow this to happen) then just deal with it. You gotta assume everyone is an idiot and plan accordingly.
The front of that Scion is probably hanging out into the driveway obstructing pedestrians and vehicles. Safety hazard. The she blames the people around her for not parking how she wants them to when really the expedition owner was probably just pulling up to the rear of her vehicle using it as a guide. The FB poster is obviously looking for attention by blaming all around her for making her life hard. Sad...
Better to admit it was a typo and "avoid" is what was meant? Or, better to stand your ground that you wrote a statement without a verb?
Cannot believe she mentioned she was a sucker fisherman. Gotta wonder if that was a comment with hidden meaning...
So when do we get a ruling on the defamation charge? Will that be a public hearing too with recording?
Quoted from goatdan:
For the record, this is the most fascinating thread on Pinside. I spent probably three hours today catching up.
After all that, I am not closer to understanding what the actual thinking was here. On one hand, it seems like Kevin hatched a crazy plan with the intent to steal money from a bunch of people. His purchases were done to keep up the charade, and he fully intended to walk with every dime he could.
This seems unbelievable because everyone seems too stupid in the proceedings to actually have thought this far in advance.
Kevin was legitimately trying to build these, realized he couldn't, and realized he was in too deep to come out of it. Instead of trying to fix the situation, he cut and run.
This seems believable, but then I don't get the moves he was making to get there. If he was at all legit, you would think there would be one or two pieces of proof showing him doing anything right. But there's not.
It's weird. It's like, how can one be so dumb, and be able to pull off a manipulation so complex?
I kind of agree with your 2nd assessment but I have trouble understanding why Kevin would move forward with building and showing the pinball machines without the license. My hunch is that he felt so strongly that the license would come through that he took a huge risk (a leap of faith really) that did not pan out in his (or his investor's) favor. It is unfortunate that his bad bet resulted in everyone here and many more losing money.
Quoted from Whysnow:
there were NO investors...
For some reason it seems many people from MI keep trying to push this idea (seems like a few are trying to push this use of language). There were customers that ordered a product that was never delivered. Skit-B and Kevin Kuleck sold a product that they did not have the legal rights to build and never delivered on those goods.
Maybe "people in MI" have a common understanding that the people like you who pre-ordered the undelivered product actually funded the project? We could squabble over the exact definition over the word investor if you like, but I do not think it is necessary. Honestly, I do not think it is only "people in MI" that feel that you were an investor. Maybe you are just generalizing since one of the "people in MI" screwed you over? Don't take it out on me man!
Quoted from pinmanguy:
It's not investing to buy a pin before they are made is it? If i pay someone upfront to build a custom table i'm not investing in that dudes business I'm just buying a product and he needs the money upfront for the materials.
Yes, you are if the "dude" does not have a business including the capital equipment needed to manufacture the product.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:
When you go to a Ford or Chevy dealership and order a car to be built to your specifications are you an investor? I think not.
Good point! So, in the case of Predator, if everyone went to the Skit-B dealership and bought the machines I guess there would be no issue. You would've been able to pick your trim package and all custom upgrades and accessories by looking through the brochure alongside your trusted Skit-B sales representative. After that, the pinball machine would be scheduled to run down the production line within the next week and be delivered to your dealership, where a service technician would overlook the machine for any flaws or blemishes (of course these would be covered by the 30k-play coin-door to back-box full warranty).
Ok, enough sarcasm. When a "company" NEEDS the money up front (including profits) in order to build the product, and the money is spent on investments for capital equipment NEEDED to build the product, the source of the money is the investor. Most companies acquire a business loan or has their own money to invest (or acquires an outside investor by showing them a prototype and a business plan) in order to set up shop and generate products. Then they sell the product, pay their investors and bills, and (hopefully) keep the profit. Somehow, the pinball business/hobby has been able to sidestep this process and in multiple cases the investors have been at the losing end of thousands of dollars.
Quoted from cfh:
There are two predators in existence. The one that Kevin was hauling to the show. And the other one Tim has. There are no other complete games or even close to complete games. There are some parts out there but that's about it. There is a chance that up to five predators could be made. But there are more major assemblies that are not available. The biggest block on the whole thing is the ramps. There was only two sets ever made and one is in Tim's game and the other one is in the original black predator. There's no others. So at this point in time there are no predators that can even exist, because there simply aren't enough parts to make one.
You also need software too. It's not like that's readily available either. And Milton stop lying about stuff. You don't know anything.
Quoted from cfh:
Milton I must stutter. There's only two predators. One is Tim's and the other one is The one Kevin has the proto. There's no others. Tim's game is not available to me or anyone else. I don't know Tim at all and I have no access to his machine. He lives close by to me but I do not know Tim. And even if I did I suspect he would let me anywhere near his machine. Predator is a sore spot for him as demonstrated by the gang raping he took here.
Quoted from cfh:
That video is of Predator #1 (the black prototype game) which Kevin took to all the shows. Recorded at the Sharks Club in Howell Michigan during 2014 (Sharks club is no longer, now Block brewery.) It is running old software (no comma in the scores). This is not the one and only "official production" machine (predator #2, Tim's machine.) Note also that the RGB LED modes don't seem to be implement (an "extra option"). Can not tell if it has a shaker motor either (again another "extra option".) or laser pointer. Predator #2 didn't even exist at this time. And If you listen you can hear Kevin narrating the video.
Quoted from cfh:
There are no other ones, just #1 black prototype and #2 which is Tim's. Those are the only ones Kevin made.
Quoted from cfh:
Milton like usual you are just wrong. and when you figure it out, i expect a public apology.
As told there's only two kevin made predators: The #1 black prototype, and the #2 tim "official release" model. Kevin never made any more than that. The #2 showed us what the game was capable of looking like in its finished form, and what could have been.
Quoted from cfh:
For the hundredth time Kevin only made two predators. The black Proto #1, and Tim's number two. There are not any others. There is a white wood play field somewhere out there, but it existed in the same black cabinet that has a production playfield in it now. A total of 10 production playfields and plastic sets were made. Kevin does not have any of them anymore. So there are people out there with playfields that could possibly make their own version of the predator, up to eight of them. This is yet to be seen though. But at some point I'm sure it will happen. I don't expect all eight to be made, but it is possible.
But I'm done here. Many are not interested in hearing anything about what's really going on, you're only interested in carrying pitchforks and perpetuating lies and other sorts of BS. Wow, because it doesn't seem any different than what you accuse Kevin of doing.
To the make matters worse, the moderators here aren't helping at all either. If anybody has a difference of opinion then the mob who is caring pitchforks, you guys thrown them out. Of course I'm talking about Tim. He provided some insight, which of course was different than what other people are saying, but it was very relevant and was not mean-spirited in any way.
I run into Kevin now and then as his lawyer is just a few miles from where I live, and Kevin likes to go to arcade type hang outs that I also visit. So I get some different insight and different points of view on what's happening. But I'm frankly just not interested in sharing them here anymore. Many seem more interested in twisting lies and talking crap then you are about finding out what is really true.
You can have a poison pill and swallow it, but that doesn't mean it's going to hurt Kevin. It just means you're going to hurt yourself. All this ill will towards Kevin, though understandable to a point, is not good for anyone, especially yourselves. Frankly I think many are more mad at themsves then Kevin. But I am no longer interested in participating in this therapy session here. Especially since many are not interested in facts, only interested in carrying pitchforks. I thought this would be a good place to discuss things, but apparently that's just not the case.
Quoted from cfh:
As the administrator of a pinball museum, we look at one-off games and how they are made. Unfortunately there's only TWO predators that exist (Kevin's and Tim Fife's) that we know about. Though the location of Kevin's is unknown, Tim only lives about 20 miles from us. I have personally seen his machine, and inventoried and photographed it. The problem is, there's some things that prohibit making one of these, at least easily...
Playfield. Rumor is there's 10 out there. One is in kevin's machine, one in Tim's. That leaves 8. At least that's the rumor...
Plastic toys. Kevin actually had made 200 (or 250) of the plastic toy sets from Back Street Alley. They were made and paid for. They are out there. There's some people that have them as gag toys, because what good are they? No games to put them on... Kevin gave them to his friends/employees because they have no value at this point. also if you didn't have them, no big deal, as they are just cosmetic stuff. do not effect game play.
Flat plastics. make your own, nothing fancy here, has repeating foliage design on them, pretty easy to make design in photoshop.
Ramps. Biggest stoppage. They are custom and would have to be made from scratch. Expensive, time consuming...
Metal lane guides. pretty easy to make your own. vid has a nice explanation of this on pinside.
Wiring harness. custom hand made, point to point, very time consuming.
Software. Could be gotten from Tim's machine. But of course, he would have to allow that to happen... A major stop point, unless written from scratch using Kevin's rules, or Tim is willing to let you make a copy.
Pretty much everything else!
Here's a list of what we guess is needed, from what is seen on Tim Fife's game.
Sega/Stern or PinLife 4-ball trough assembly: PL homebrew 4 ball. PBL-100-0015-00
Sega Apron: Pinball life plastic apron. part 545-5995-02
Pop Bumpers. Three needed. DE pop assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5227-00 pinball life
Slingshotss. Two needed. DE sling assemblies w/ 26-1200 coil. part 500-5849-00 pinball life
Left Eject assembly. This is a bit tricky, but standard Stern/williams parts. It's a kickback used in stern games.
535-6730-00 Stern (marco)
A-17767 williams (marco)
26-1200 coil (pinball life)
Right eject assembly. Scoop Weldment Assembly from pinball life PBL-100-0034-00
Center standup targets, 2 targets, pbl_B-12001-1
Left Diverter Assembly (AKA Flipper assembly).
Used for the left diverter. These are standard williams right hand flipper assembly with low power coil.
VUK assembly. More stern/williams parts. This is what i have found could be used...
AE-26-800 coil (pinball life)
Disappearing Post: pinball life pbl_A-17932
VUK weldment wireform. Looks like from Demo man! Part Number: 12-7166B (marco)
Diverter Arm. Perhaps from twilight zone! Part Number: A-16316 (marco)
Shooter lane auto launch assembly. Pinball Life #a-21553
Flippers. Standard WPC style from Pinball life: pbl_A-15205-R-2_A-15205-L-2
Cabinet (game base on Johnny Mnemonic cabinet aka standard williams wpc cab.)
cabinet graphics (black cabinet with red lettering, easy to make in photoshop)
backglass. Scan back cover of the blue ray DVD for the movie
flipper bats (williams pinball life)
lane guides (williams pinball life)
Speakers (pinball life)
Backbox latch (pinball life)
Playfield glass rear channel (pinball life)
IDC lamp socket/bracket (pinball life)
Stern PF slide brackets (pinball life)
Siderail carriage bolts (pinball life)
Speaker panel H channel (pinball life)
plastic posts (pinball life)
metal posts (all kinds and varieties, pinball life)
Nuts and Bolts
Pop bumper cap screws
Pop bumper rod washers
Ramp wood screws
Micro switch mounting screw 2-56 x 7/16"
LED Playfield Lights 555 style from CoinTaker
LED flasher bulbs 906/89 style from cointaker
Long UV Lights (along sides of playfield). This is tricky as needs to be bright.
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 600mm (24 inches.)
Short UV Lights (long lower ball arch)
Cold Cathode fluorescent light, UV color (blacklight), 150mm (6 inches.)
COMPUTER AND BOARDS NEEDED.
Computer. Kevin use an old HP computer. Don't think anything too powerful needed. Running Windows7
Standard Proc CPU board (not proc3.)
PD-16 driver master pd-16m
PD-16 slave board pd-16
PD-8x8 Lamp matrix board pd-8x8
Misc ribbon cables
use a standard 5 volt LED DMD. or a plasma DMD with a small DMD power supply (more expensive but this is what was originally called for.)
5vdc / 12vdc power supply
Lamp matrix power supply. Need 18 volts for lamp matrix.
Coil power. need 50 volt supply for coils.
General illumination power supply. use a 6 volt power brick.
Smart power strip: used for power distribution
Of course there's tons of other things needed too. Like buttons, coin door, wood back playfield panel, etc etc. Probably a lot more than i can think of right now...
But the point is this. This game is not a difficult build from a parts perspective, aside from the custom stuff listed at the top of this post. Could most people do this? probably not, but given the time, could be done! After all, Kevin did it twice!! It would take a lot of time and knowledge. And you still have some issues with software and ramps and playfield that are difficult to overcome, but not impossible. If you had a playfield though, that would get you into the ball park, as it's a good starting point (after all you have to have something to bolt the parts too!)
Just for clarification, how many predators are in existence?
Quoted from ForceFlow:
Technically, it's not counterfeit like a knockoff handbag. It just wasn't properly licensed.
They might be able to make an argument for it being an unproduced prototype. Plenty of that stuff surfaces and gets sold. For instance, the sheets of artwork rejected by the licensor for the demolition man backglass were probably sold at some point.
LMAO he isn't gonna answer. Heck I wouldn't either (and not because I am a Michigander). This is the guy that rebuilt a BBB taken from a curb for garbage and now it is minty (except for the standup near the left ramp was not registering).
My 1000 foot view: go after Hilton to get your money back since he was a huge advocate for investing in Skit-B. Or atleast ask that he buy the pizza. And, if you believe that he was offered a machine that he paid for and turned it down then you might be a couple crayons short of a full box.
Quoted from redman822:
Exact quote from the August 3 court date at the 28:30 mark... https://soundcloud.com/user-7602410/1ap2017-02000-20170803-150509
Mama K: What if I want to go to California for the winter and and where it's going to be much easier for me.
MK: To try to get on top of this
J: Well I guess what my question is winter for you? Um ah.
MK: Winter to me would be before Halloween and then to return before Mother's Day. To me that's that's, I'm just not a big Halloween fan, so I like to be out of here before then. I mean I can hang around, but it's going to be pretty tough, and I have not even completely made that decision yet.
J: Right, uh, Mr. Nathanson would you be ready to try the case before Halloween?
Keith Nathanson: Uhhh, I suppose that could be possible, your honor. There isn't significant amounts of discovery that has to be done, so I think that if my office gets on top of it relatively quickly we could do that.
J: Do we have a trial date we could give them before October?
J: What dates are you thinking about?
Clerk: Well the 27th and the 30th are (garbled)
J: What do you think about that, My Nathanson, you have a case before Frank vs. Pinfield Wells, could we trade out that case for Ms. Kulek's case and get her on her way to California before the snow flies?
KN: Uhhh, we could do that, your honor, I have no problem with that.
J: Does that date work for you Ma'am? That would be, what, October 27th?
Clerk: Either the 27th or the 30th, he has a trial set both days. (garbled) Yeah, that's a two day trial the 27th and the 30th.
KN: Your honor, realistically, that's, uh, the Pinfield Wells matter is less than a day, that trial. It's probably two witnesses, maybe three, so it's probably not a two day trial.
J: So We could probably do both, is what you are saying. Ma'am you pick. Octobet 27th, which is a Friday, or October 30th which I believe is a Monday.
MK: Uhh, let's go with the Friday.
J: Friday, the 27th?
J: October 27th, then. (pause) That way, Ma'am you can get on your way, hopefully.
MK: I hope I can actually pull that off, I don't know if I can, but I am certainly going to try.
J: Well, here's the thing is, if you can't do that, let us know as soon as you can, so that we can re-do things, but frankly, given your health issues, um, we either do it before you go to California or we do it after you come back from California, I might push you back on coming from California earlier than Mother's Day, because you know, Michigan in April is delightful.
MK: It is, I know, I'm a sucker fisherman, I do like the month of April.
J: Well, there you go. You might do it then. But I think that Mr. Nathanson would rather get this resolved or settled or tried sooner versus later, so that's why I am pushing this ahead a little bit. I think I've covered everything. Mr. Nathanson, what I'm going to ask you to do is if you would submit that Rule 26 conference report that you talked about, I'll take a look at it, and then Ma'am, I'm going to issue a separate document that will incorporate some of what Mr. Nathanson has talked about because we all agree that those are good dates, but them I am going to set that trial date for October 27th at um, probably going to start at 10 o'clock?
J: 10 o'clock is that a good time for you, Mr. Nathanson?
KN: That would be fine, your honor.
J: 10 o'clock. So that would ah, look for that to come in the mail probably in about a week.
J: Alright, I have got some things ahead of this case, uh, and then um, if you don't get that by the end of next week, give either Ms. Erickson or Ms. Skillman a call.
MK: I will.
J: Andfind out what's going on, maybe it just got delayed. But, uh, once you have that in your hands, and Mr. Nathanson, why don't you get that submitted in the next day or two, I will work off of that. OK?
KN: I will do that, actually, as soon as we finish this hearing, your honor. Would the court prefer that I upload it as a regular document on ECF or that I submit it to the court under the, uh, proposed orders section?
J: Just file it under the regular docket system, and then I'll do an order from that, Mr. Nathanson.
KN: OK, your honor, I will do that.
J: Very good and have a good day.
KN: Thank you, your Honor, as well.
J: Good bye.
Clerk: The court is in recess (Recording ends)
Please say you were able to copy and paste this as opposed to typing this out...
Quoted from j_m_:
not sure how that works but it should be a capital loss (just like stocks), in which case you can amortize it over several years (taking the maximum of $3K per year
according to a quick google search:
"A capital loss carryover is the net amount of capital losses that aren't deductible for the current tax year but can be carried over into future tax years. Net capital losses (total capital losses minus total capital gains) can only be deducted up to a maximum of $3,000 in a given tax year."
"Any excess capital loss can be carried over until you die, then it is lost and of no benefit to your estate or heirs."
"Carrying Losses Forward. You can use a maximum of $3,000 of capital losses each year as a write-off against income other than capital gains. If your losses are greater than your gains by more than $3,000, the extra losses above the $3,000 limit should be carried forward to future tax years."
This sounds like a business capital investment loss in which a schedule C should be filled out. Pretty simple thing that turbo tax can do too. But, it is normally used for small businesses...
Quoted from MrBally:
The secret is to throw out all those smaller clothes that don't fit just prior to starting a workout routine. Then you'll definitely lose enough weight to fit in them again, but you'll have to buy new ones which is fine as the old shit is out of style anyway.
By the time you buy them they won't fit anymore though...
Quoted from goatdan:
I was in Estonia recently, where I paid to see a museum of torture devices. I'm not going to pretend that I "loved" the devices that were there, but it was fascinating, historical, and gave you perspective on what was happening in the days that stuff was used.
If I was in for a Predator, I would much rather any remaining prototypes be on display with those locations acknowledging the historical perspective to ensure that a future Predator situation didn't happen again, while ensuing that what did come of the situation can be seen and enjoyed by the majority of the people.
The only other option I see is for someone else to hide it away, which I don't think is a positive for anyone except the person doing the hiding.
If you were tortured by one of those devices in the museum, would you still like going back to the museum to see it on display?
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