Had a dream this afternoon. I was standing in front of King Solomon along with a group of pinheads. Also present was the only shooting MG machine. Everybody had an opinion of how to dispose of the game and why they should be the sole owner. King Solomon rose and said,"let us divide the game into 199 pieces and return something to everyone". The people answered"ok". So the game was divided into unequal parts and distributed to the people. amen.

It was a nightmare indeed.

He does? Who told you that? I'll let Rick chime in on that one.

Lol. Yes

Lol. Yes

Sounds good. Just as I did in my last post. Unlike you, I know where the game is bahahahah

Actually, it's a concern considering people were saying owners should load it up and take it from the show. I think the mentality in this regard is pretty bad and I know for a fact that the person in charge of where it is at agrees.

Anybody test the water in Oregon lately?

Hmmmmmm.......

https://m.facebook.com/PinballBulbs/posts/897898173595732

https://m.facebook.com/PinballBulbs/photos/pcb.930415273677355/930415233677359/?type=1&source=48

The virtual pinball project was for development of the software on the actual game by multiple people without each having a real machine. Not to put into our mini cabinet. It just so happens our skill sets march in this case for that purpose.

It tested positive for Magic.

Someone should auction some / all of Zidware artwork and pay the programmer and various bills. Obviously there won't be enough money to refunds preorders, even in part, but if this could repair some of the damage that would be great. Trouble is: no one would trust Jpop organizing that. But if one waits for bankruptcy, what are the odds of finding out that much of the stuff has already disappeared?

If I knew for sure the money would go to people who suffered Great harm I would definitely be a serious - and I mean serious - bidder for a MG backglass (my pockets are not deep enough for one of the prototypes and at least one belongs to a Museum. Not a big fan of the "Burn them all" approach, even if I understand the frustration!).

I doubt that Popadiuk would file Chapter 11, unless he had DIP financing lined up, because the case would be administratively insolvent right out of the gate. Popadiuk's letter on May 22nd effectively provided the basis, almost word for word, for a good faith ruling in favor of qualified petitioning creditors in an involuntary Chapter 7 proceeding...

May 22nd letter: "As a result of the foregoing, Zidware is facing difficulty in generating sufficient cash flow to meet its obligations as they become due. Zidware concluded that it had to have help to take the designs that had been created and get them into production or the Company would be forced to pursue a Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation."

So he has effectively provided evidence of administrative insolvency pre-petition, which is typically the gating issue prompting conversion to Chapter 7.

There are many reasons why pre-orderers have a claim to the company's assets. John Popadiuk has a fiduciary duty to his customers to be using his company assets to fulfill their orders, not to put his assets at the disposal of another company with no responsibility to his existing customers. If he is found guilty of breaching his fiduciary duty (which i think there is a good chance of in many ways), each person has a claim to the amount they lost. Secondly, if he has obtained money to finance these assets by fraud, those who are defrauded have a claim on the value of their deposits.

The game itself is seemingly the only thing of real value in the entire business. The business currently has a lawsuit filed against it. Not only that, but if he should give away the game to another person he would have divested himself of the asset AFTER publicly declaring Zidware was insolvent. So if you think creditors DON'T have a claim on the company's assets, you are wrong. This game and all of the company's IP belongs to the creditors of Zidware basically the second John admitted publicly to being insolvent. So maybe the asset would be seized, or maybe John would be on the hook personally for the value of the asset to be paid back into the company.

At least, that is my understanding. IANAL.

Think of John as going through a messy divorce, only to the customers who turned on him to sue him. He says "well they're not getting a damn penny!" and starts looting or hiding assets of the company. You can't do that, it's illegal.

And wheres that kiss proto at.

Basically people should start GPS chipping all of the Zidware pins. And I'm not even joking. The KISS foamcore could be worth a lot of money too, that's the funny thing about this hobby. There might be enough infamy in that shop to get a lot of money back for creditors at auction.

Shouldn't there be no decision tree .... Should you pre-order -> NO

I'd agree the prototype would be the most valuable thing at auction by a long shot.

Original pinball IP can have value if it's earned it (BBB, AFM, MM, ToM) but MG has no nostalgia, no cache - it's just a generic concept plastered on a failed pinball machine of which zero were produced. RAZA has less than no value - the Mars Attacks, Robbie and Godzilla imagery make it a liability. AIW is an interpretation of a public domain book. Point is - there will be no windfall for creditors from any sale of Zidware IP.

This isn't my first brand rodeo. I was incredulous that something so shitty was in the style guide (speaking of the dwarf font stuff), not that JJP had to follow it. I admitted it was crazy but true when the t-shirt images got dug up. I've spent decades of my career working with Fortune 500 and huge brands, I'm well aware of what it means to have to follow their rules.

And the revised Hobbit playfield looks miles better, still following the rules, so I really don't retract a thing I said.

I will admit I'm getting a new appreciation for how byzantine the movie industry is specifically though, no question. And I've said this already in another thread, I'm crazy jealous of all the high rez assets a new film like the Hobbit has available. You don't get that with movies from 1978, that's for sure!

Agreed. All this would be true once a lawsuit gets to the point of locking assets. Unfortunately at this moment, none of it applies. John could sell any of his assets right now and claim he did so to help move forward in his project or to pay his debts. One of his debts is to pay his lawyers to defend himself in this very lawsuit. I'm sure everyone can sue Zidware out of business. But no one will get anything significantly financially.

And your response is further evidence of why the party holding the game wishes not to disclose himself.

Do you know how much will be distributed to the stake holders in a bankruptcy proceeding such as this? Nada, zilch, zero...a good bankruptcy lawyer will make sure there is nothing left to go to the creditors. His personal assets such as house and car are protected, what ever is left in the biz bank acct will go towards his legal fees. The shop is leased and the equipment in it unless there is an official inventory will disappear...so maybe his EM game and some of the playfields and drawings will fetch a few thousand.

Only the patents would have value, in my opinion.

I agree with you except that MG IP could go to virtual pinball.

Shh Those were supposed to be kept secrets as they were the next prototype cabinets jpop created!

It's my understanding if a virtual table got made it would be part of visual pinball in general so everyone would have it free, like all of the other tables on there. Nothing specific to our mini virtual pins. They just run visual pinball (if installed) and no real way to have some sort of exclusive for magic girl. Plus drm sucks so if I were personally doing the virtual pin for magic girl it would be free. I have no skills in that so non issue anyways.

Such a shame that the WW's where so much further along in 2013-2014

Just in case anyone wasn't clear on the thing I was complaining about earlier. Sorry Bill, this reflects on you too when these Oregon people act like this and use "we" to talk about their little insider club. I'd handle it if you want to keep your rep intact coming out of this, the game left because of you, like it or not you're the custodian.

I don't really care who has it, it's truly not my problem. But for the rest of the owners, especially those filing lawsuits, it's pretty weak that there are people here hiding it and taunting people childishly over it. I'm sure markmon thought he was joking, but it wasn't particularly funny.

Do I think it will end up back at Zidware? Yes, I'm not claiming a conspiracy to keep it. That would be as stupid as the notion that an owner would break in and steal it from where it is now. (Seriously?) But in the meantime it's the same old story, "insider" bullshit coming out of Oregon, with the "I know better than you" attitude that strung people along this whole time. That turned out to be untruths by the way.

Upon thinking about this a bit more, the only potential valuable assets I think Zidware might have are its patents. It seems one of the ways our monies were wasted was in expensive patents on everything. If this is true, the parents are an actual IP that have value.

That's OK, as long as John is left with nothing. That would still put him ahead of me, I'm negative $6500.

It was a joke. You know RobT insisted I stick to what I know so I just took his advice. And by the way, I lost $6500 in this fiasco. I'm allowed to make a joke. All the thumbs downers on this - most them have nothing into the game and definitely no right to know where the game currently resides.

Sounds like you have the plan in motion to successfully raid the corp. congrats. Nice to have Sabrina on the team? I would still contend that johns company requires the magic girl pin to maintain the facade of acting in the interest of his customers. If he loses the asset necessary to fulfill his obligations it will prove he is not acting in the best interests of his customers and will seal his fate for breach of fiduciary duty. Losing his means of production to defend himself in a lawsuit when the company will not be able to recover is not acting in the interests of his buyers and is therefore a breach of his fiduciary duty to them.

Seeing that "Poof" award reminds me of Arrested Development:

Funny thing about those patents,
They're registered to John not Zidware. The lawyer worked for free too and filed them himself.
How does that work if Zidware is bankrupt?

But who's going to pay big money for some pinball patents? Certainly not Stern. If they get sold they'll go for a modest sum.

I'm guessing Zidware paid a lot of money to John for the "privilege" of being able to use his patents for development of their prototype. However if he developed the patents while being paid a salary by Zidware, and using materials in the Zidware shop, there could easily be a claim on them by creditors.
Edit: not to mention they would have a claim on all the fees paid to John for the patents that should rightfully be Zidware patents.

I'm sensing from your smugness that you take pleasure in thinking John is a genius for swindling everybody and you think he's so smart he's going to get away with it. If I were you I wouldn't be so sure about these guys. I'd be careful about being involved, actually, lawsuits have a way of spreading to anybody nearby.

The only difference in that video and the one from the recent expo appears to be artwork.

My apologies to Mark and James, I didn't mean to imply that you stole the game.

Just trying to figure out what's going on.

wut.gif

Insert joke about Starbucks *here*

No smugness,
I just looked up the patents

Multiball
Look at ramp ball drops into a moving spinner.
The NW show one dropped to inlanes.
Magna save worked on WW so did the hare magnet

I dunno, I've posted way too much in this thread and people are probably sick of me. Here is what it appears happened based on these posts, but obviously I could be wrong. I'm not stating that any of this definitely happened. But what COULD have happened or end up happening, given the lack of oversight.

Designs made for MG and Raza, Zidware created to take pre-order money.
John created unnecessary patents, putting as many custom designed things in the pinball machine to reasonably charge huge fees for the patent use. Zidware pays large amounts of money to John out of all 3 pre-order pots.
John draws a salary.
Draws down all the money in the Zidware account (less some to pay vendors) into his personal account, roughly 2013 when he admits he stopped paying himself.
Stopped working on the games after all the money was sucked out of Zidware.
Engaged multiple siloed contractors to maintain a facade of work being done on the machine. The contractors did work, but John didn't worry about it much, he knew the company would fold.
Knew the pin wouldn't go into production so why pay contractors? He already "legally" drew the money out of the company.
Maintains the facade of staying in business to collect additional AIW deposits and any final payments from MG and RAZA.
Accomplices report "starry eyed" reviews after going to the shop to keep deposit money coming in.
Once these deposits dry up, it's time to shut down the company. Announces that with no more pre-order dollars the company will go bankrupt.
Gets legitimately spooked by lawsuits filed, and attempts a last minute divestment from his responsibilities. Threatens that people who sue will get "nothing."
Sets up deal with Pintasia to transfer assets out of Zidware (prototype and? IP? We have heard conflicting stories of what Pintasia owns)
Pintasia (while still anonymous) makes an offer to save people and produce the machines if they commit to paying more money and sign a no-sue agreement. (To keep the pre-order scheme going for 2-4 more years all over again)
No-sue agreement important so assets can be moved and will not be frozen.
Extreme pressure tactics used to frighten people into signing the agreements. The attempts fail.
Pintasia to keep John on as a "contractor" in the new pre-order scheme (this would ensure John gets a cut of the new pre-order $)
MG taken to NW pinball show to see if new pre-order $ can be made if people get excited about the new team.
Show fails to produce pre-orders, so Pintasia axes the idea.
MG is moved to a hidden location, a deal has been cut to give the machine to Pintasia, or at least they know JPop will not sue for its return.
Pintasia appropriates MG and other Zidware assets, leaving nothing for the creditors.
Zidware is left empty shell, while Pintasia shops MG IP and pays John a consulting fee for his efforts.

Some of you will think these things are believable, and some of you will not. There is a lot of evidence that right from day 1 this project was set up to drain pre-order dollars into a personal account, then bankrupt the company. There is a lot of evidence that Pintasia could have had the same idea and failed thanks to intense scrutiny. One thing is for certain, the assets need to be fully accounted for. A forensic audit is necessary to show that John Popadiuk was acting in the best interest of his clients. If he was found in breach of fiduciary duty, he would be responsible personally (not as a corporation, but as a director of that corporation) to provide restitution to those whose interests he was duty bound to protect. That restitution is by law usually the monetary amount they have lost because of the crime. If these things were to happen, the buyers would have to find him personally liable to access the funds at this point. I think they exist. There is a good chance JPop was Zidware's single biggest expense, which would mean the money is still around.

Sorry to end on a wall of text, but I guess that's just my style. I'm going to take a step back and let other people discuss the issue for a while, as I have way too many posts here. But hopefully you will understand it is out of passion, and I mean well.

If a company is loaned something.. and fails to return it, it's not 'stolen' - it's a liability against the company depending on the terms in the agreement. But that company, if you close down or liquidate.. becomes another layer to cut through when trying to recoup things. Put some more layers in there by transfering things around.. and it becomes a big PITA to get a judgement.. let alone actually try to repo.

I said this back when the game first was traveling.. and again last week too. You don't need to make it hidden, just make it a major PITA to actually close on a judgement and collect on it.

I think I'm done arguing about this. I'm sure the OR circle are acting in what they feel are the best interests of everyone, I do not think they're malicious in any way. I don't care for their attitude, but I don't think anyone is trying to "steal" the game or something conspiracy like. The chips are just gonna fall where they may now, nothing to be done from my perspective but watch it play out. I hope there's some sort of resolution for people.

I guess one bright note is that people are working to try and get Zombie Yeti's art on a shipping pin. Maybe next time he can put together the full package the way he feels it should be, without a power tripping maniac redoing all his coloring and composition.

Debating the bones
Someone is surely to blame
space in the game room

That would be good news for people trying to pierce the corporate veil.

...