(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#14801 4 years ago

Okay, team Oregon who secretly has the machine for some vague Visual Pinball plans, let's throw it all on the table. Here's my thinking based on the obfuscated posts thus far:

You plan to make a Visual Pinball recreation of Magic Girl.

To make a VP recreation, you need lots of scans/pictures of the playfields and plastics, right? So right now you're taking the machine apart, taking pictures/scans, to acquire that data. Must be fun...

Maybe you're taking measurements for distances so you can get virtual placement "just right" (let's pretend that you are, because that means you actually think you might recreate this game)?

You're probably also looting the software side for assets...? Game code, animations, audio/sfx..?

No wonder you're doing this in secrecy. If you have John's blessing to do this, that's crazy. If you don't? That's crazy too.

#14802 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If you guys at Pinballbulbs think somehow that you are going to concoct some plan to personally benefit or walk out the back door with the MG prototype because you guys suffered and had $$$ in this fiasco, you better think again!

... and how long is it staying there for *cough* "evaluation"

#14803 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I know who has the game and I won't say who. But I will say why. I refuse to tell anyone because we don't need emotional folks that lost their money trying to come steal it. As for why someone has the game, it was for analysis of the software task to complete it. No one here needs to know more about the whereabouts of the game. As long as jpop is ok with where it's at, it's no one else's concern.
And for anyone that thinks they have part ownership in the game because they paid for *a* game I can only say that you don't. You didn't buy stock in Jpop's company and assets. You bought a promise of making and shipping you a completed game. That gives you no rights to the rest of the company assets. Sure you can sue to get to get something, but then jpop will just sell his assets to cover legal fees. In this regard, we are all screwed.

MarkMon is correct about the financial analysis of the business ownership - credit analysis is part of what I do for a living. This situation is similar to some software and web company failures in the early 90's. Investors bought in for a potential for "something". Many times the product or service was described in a generic way, but the people making the pitch and doing the work, were respected and trusted from their past successes. The magic of the "just one more time" hopes were dashed, and pre-pay investors lost their investment - and there were minimal leftovers, except for unfinished code - any bankruptcy proceeds were eaten by court, legal and liquidation costs.

12
#14804 4 years ago

I don't think John has any idea about where that MG pin is.

These guys just decided to take this on their own.

#14805 4 years ago

Paranoid. Protective. Lies. Secrets. Unpaid vendors. Lack of Refunds. Shell game. Willingness to receive deposits very late in the game.

Hiding money?

#14806 4 years ago

Or it's as simple as Bill and Pdx had to rent a truck to get the proto to the show and the pinballbulbs guys had a big ass trailer, which if they sold either Flintstones or No Fear at the show, had a vacant seat to get MG out of the building. There's always that too...

#14807 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

any bankruptcy proceeds were eaten by court, legal and liquidation costs.

I was told this and still got a settlement.

I hope it works out this way for the victims in this case.

#14808 4 years ago
Quoted from Sparky347:

Or it's as simple as Bill and Pdx had to rent a truck to get the proto to the show and the pinballbulbs guys had a big ass trailer, which if they sold either Flintstones or No Fear at the show, had a vacant seat to get MG out of the building. There's always that too...

That makes sense. Occam's razor, right?

And yet, that's not at all what they've said. Multiple posts hinting about them trying to make a VP recreation which, as I posted, justifies them in an asset raid for the "greater good" --and by hinting and not making any explicit statements, they aren't admitting that they're doing so and probably trying to shield themselves from an inevitable backlash from others finding out about the asset raid ... not to mention giving some protection when they fail to succeed since porting this game to VP would be fairly hard.

#14809 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I know who has the game and I won't say who. But I will say why. I refuse to tell anyone because we don't need emotional folks that lost their money trying to come steal it. As for why someone has the game, it was for analysis of the software task to complete it. No one here needs to know more about the whereabouts of the game. As long as jpop is ok with where it's at, it's no one else's concern.
And for anyone that thinks they have part ownership in the game because they paid for *a* game I can only say that you don't. You didn't buy stock in Jpop's company and assets. You bought a promise of making and shipping you a completed game. That gives you no rights to the rest of the company assets. Sure you can sue to get to get something, but then jpop will just sell his assets to cover legal fees. In this regard, we are all screwed.

You would think the "we" includes John Popaduik.

#14810 4 years ago

Pintasia was some last gasp entity created to bail out this project or bail out John?

Pintasia: Wanted to save the day, spent a great deal of $$ getting the game to the show, sleepless nights… is this a diversion?

This is a predictable outcome, albeit negative. Assuming Pintasia had a bit of common sense they knew this would happen. Is there some upside for them at this point?

#14811 4 years ago
Quoted from Tharizdun:

Pintasia was some last gasp entity created to bail out this project or bail out John?
Pintasia: Wanted to save the day, spent a great deal of $$ getting the game to the show, sleepless nights… is this a diversion?
This is a predictable outcome, albeit negative. Assuming Pintasia had a bit of common sense they knew this would happen. Is there some upside for them at this point?

Judging from what I've read here Bill (Pintasia) and Jpop are friends.Bill is using his expertise in bailing out failing companies to help his friend avoid court.

#14812 4 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

Given the options of:
1) This is all some elaborate scheme John designed 4+ years ago to rake in money, pay himself a big salary and cash in, then evaporate
2) John's an idiot
I'm going with option #2.

Since we always bring up Occam's Razor, I thought I'd toss in my preferred day-to-day 'Razor' philosophy:

Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

#14813 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

To make a VP recreation, you need lots of scans/pictures of the playfields and plastics, right? So right now you're taking the machine apart, taking pictures/scans, to acquire that data. Must be fun...
. . .
You're probably also looting the software side for assets...? Game code, animations, audio/sfx..?

So it is possible they are taking software, sound, audio and art assets, many of which the vendor has not been paid for, and potentially putting them into a VP game? Wouldn't that qualify as theft of IP, if they don't have a legal right to do it? Or have they worked some deal with John (and/or Pintasia?) to be able to do this?

Something smells fishy here.

BTW not sure we have heard anything about the audio/sound/sfx and who created those assets and if they were paid. Makes me wonder if this yet another vendor unpaid.

#14814 4 years ago
Quoted from Sparky347:

Or it's as simple as Bill and Pdx had to rent a truck to get the proto to the show...

Looks like it was in a mini van. Whether they rented it is another thing.

Just sayin'

412350-i.jpeg
#14815 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I don't think John has any idea about where that MG pin is.
These guys just decided to take this on their own.

Anyone know any customs agents? Maybe they made a run for the border!

canada.jpg
#14816 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Okay, team Oregon who secretly has the machine for some vague Visual Pinball plans, let's throw it all on the table. Here's my thinking based on the obfuscated posts thus far:
You plan to make a Visual Pinball recreation of Magic Girl.
To make a VP recreation, you need lots of scans/pictures of the playfields and plastics, right? So right now you're taking the machine apart, taking pictures/scans, to acquire that data. Must be fun...
Maybe you're taking measurements for distances so you can get virtual placement "just right" (let's pretend that you are, because that means you actually think you might recreate this game)?
You're probably also looting the software side for assets...? Game code, animations, audio/sfx..?
No wonder you're doing this in secrecy. If you have John's blessing to do this, that's crazy. If you don't? That's crazy too.

John has digital originals of all of the art and layout so obviously there would be no need to scan or measure anything to make a virtual version with his cooperation.

#14817 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I was referring to a previous comment about "Choosing a license that won't handcuff you" (Or something like that on a hobbit thread). Which you really can't do as you don't understand the intricacies of the license and the boundaries until after you actually hold the license. But yes it's certainly difficult to work within confines when you don't have complete creative freedom.

Ah, well fair enough then. I will definitely admit that I'm personally experiencing things being different right now than I had originally been led to believe, and that it's harder to see that coming ahead of time than I had hoped.

So maybe I was overly harsh there, mea culpa.

11
#14818 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Debating the bones
Someone is surely to blame
space in the game room

Nice haiku.

Owners were swindled
Popadiuk betrayed us all
Sad day for pinball

#14819 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Ah, well fair enough then. I will definitely admit that I'm personally experiencing things being different right now than I had originally been led to believe, and that it's harder to see that coming ahead of time than I had hoped.
So maybe I was overly harsh there, mea culpa.

It really varies by licensor. We have 40-50 licenses that we've dealt with, including warner brothers and some are more flexible than others. Some allow hand drawn art, some don't. It's funny when we get feedback that something looks bad and it's stock art provided by the studio

#14820 4 years ago
Quoted from ecurtz:

John has digital originals of all of the art and layout so obviously there would be no need to scan or measure anything to make a virtual version with his cooperation.

Excellent point.

So if they need the machine for virtualization purposes, I suppose this implies it is being done without his cooperation or knowledge.

#14821 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

It really varies by licensor. We have 40-50 licenses that we've dealt with, including warner brothers and some are more flexible than others. Some allow hand drawn art, some don't. It's funny when we get feedback that something looks bad and it's stock art provided by the studio

I've licensed my music out,for a % on what the licensee can get for it i.e.sell it at.Then there is a split.

Many have wondered what "the split " is with Pintasia.

Wanna find out?Take em to court.Forensic accountants rock!!!!!!

#14822 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

It really varies by licensor. We have 40-50 licenses that we've dealt with, including warner brothers and some are more flexible than others. Some allow hand drawn art, some don't. It's funny when we get feedback that something looks bad and it's stock art provided by the studio

Well my understanding is that the Middle Earth stuff is tough to work with, and that's probably where my comment came from. But it's tough to know ahead of time I think. If I were to keep doing this kind of thing (and it's not at all clear to me that I want to) I'd try and figure out better ways to explore deeper what the options are before getting in bed.

I think generally speaking though that it would be nice if companies were able to find more licenses that offered some creative freedom, while still bringing the benefits of a known name etc. That probably means just skipping movies all together, you're not likely to find that there.

Bands might be the best shot, look at what Stern has done with Metallica and Kiss. Especially Metallica. Hand drawn art, and a new original character in Sparky.

Whatever faults John may have you can't deny that his games have personality, and a voice. It's not really clear to me on Magic Girl what the "story" is though. Are you playing as the girl, against the girl, or what?

#14823 4 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

OFFICIAL ZIDWARE HAT FOR SALE (Complete with Sticker)
Super RARE! 1 of 1!
Selling for what I have into it
$14,100
If you "But It Now" i'll even throw in TWO (yes 2!) Zidware T-Shits... errr shirts.....

authentic-zidware-hat.jpg

Wearing that hat at any pinball show may cause you "great harm"

10
#14824 4 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Since we always bring up Occam's Razor

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. --Albert Einstein

#14825 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. --Albert Einstein

Man I love that quote and its so true!

-1
#14826 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Seriously, someone is going to break into a house/office and steal that pin?
Why would anybody want to waste more time trying to complete the software on a pin that will never get built?
"As long as Jpop is ok with it, its no one else's concern?" Huh?
I guess the bizarre factor with this whole project will never end.

Its Zidware's asset Ice - John P, like it or not, is 100% owner of Zidware and therefore 100% of that machine- what is the question?

#14827 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Upon thinking about this a bit more, the only potential valuable assets I think Zidware might have are its patents. It seems one of the ways our monies were wasted was in expensive patents on everything. If this is true, the parents are an actual IP that have value.

Value to whom? Only a maker pinball who would use them would be a buyer - The content of the patents are published, complete with drawings.

#14828 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. --Albert Einstein

Einstein was the ultimate quote machine. You don't necessarily expect a renowned scientist to be a great philosopher as well.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/albert_einstein.html

12
#14829 4 years ago

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

#14830 4 years ago

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: 'It might have been.'"

John Whittier

#14831 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

So it is possible they are taking software, sound, audio and art assets, many of which the vendor has not been paid for, and potentially putting them into a VP game? Wouldn't that qualify as theft of IP, if they don't have a legal right to do it? Or have they worked some deal with John (and/or Pintasia?) to be able to do this?
Something smells fishy here.

There is a lot of "fishy" going on here. It's "fishy" because of the secrecy BS again. Spin how you want guys.

Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Judging from what I've read here Bill (Pintasia) and Jpop are friends.Bill is using his expertise in bailing out failing companies to help his friend avoid court.

Far, far from the truth. Bill and John aren't "friends" and he isn't doing this to bail John out so he can avoid court.

#14832 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Value to whom? Only a maker pinball who would use them would be a buyer - The content of the patents are published, complete with drawings.

+1

They only have value if someone pays to use them or buys them. Looking at the patents, there is nothing groundbreaking in them, so I don't imagine them having any value at all. Yet another way JPop wasted time.

10
#14833 4 years ago

Magic Girl vanished
Great harm has been caused to all
Where art thou, Liger?

#14834 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

+1
They only have value if someone pays to use them or buys them. Looking at the patents, there is nothing groundbreaking in them, so I don't imagine them having any value at all. Yet another way JPop wasted time.

No one is going to license a patent to build a pinball mech. They'll just do it some other way. They're worthless, the last thing any maker wants is to balloon their BOM over an intangible.

#14835 4 years ago

A colleague of mine bought the patents of a company that he used to work for, for $100k. It took him several years, but he eventually sold them for over $1M.

#14836 4 years ago

the patents I always thought were stupid even right in the beginning.

and the way John would tout them, made me roll my eyes, purely for ego reasons, no actual worth.

and in the end all the concern for the waste of time was justified.

#14837 4 years ago

John on patents....

Oct 2013

Although some may feel that if we are not posting then we are all sitting around driving our Beemers to Starbucks. Not so and I feel very slighted as I work harder than most everyone I know. While people are at home watching football or sports today, I am in the studio (as every day) working on pinball in it’s totality. Something I love to do. We will tackle some playfield cable designing and other hardware related cleanup on our new power supply. As an example.

I know it takes a huge effort to do this all, as well as the fine support from my fans, and am up to the task. Case and point, how do we fill in spare time. Eating crickets….no. Well we fill it with more invention, design and new ideas. More than is really possible. Pinball building takes oodles of time, a week seems like a day. I may not get to emails for a while as I average 125 each day or more.

A big part of of building this custom pinball company is inventing new stuff, designing it and getting a patent app in. For the last year we have secretly been working a new pinball light structure system for our games. It is something never seen before and we will reveal soon. Everyone will copy it immediately, especially the smaller companies trying to get a stake. It is revolutionary and really cool and customizable.

Creating all the patent drawings, diagrams, claims and eventual write up for the USPTO is a huge task, we do after the days normal work is done. Also we have a super-human great small team of attorney’s that dive in and make it all correct and legally amazing. This is how we built pinball at WMS. People may ask what’s the point?

As with my past design patent (USD579055) for Zizzle, which was copied many times in the toy biz, we have also been able to have granted our new cabinet design (USD689557) which took over a year and half to complete. In theory no one can “pinch” our design without some legal issues from us. There is no point in developing all this great IP to give it away. Some companies today are starving for new ideas, innovation…so taking it is easy. Back when we started it was a “slight” gamble to forge a new cabinet design, engineer it and try for a patent. But today it makes good business sense. The right decision and we got the patent! Amazing.

We now have 6+ other makers of some type of custom pinball (I was the only one 2 years ago), and most of them are using the old WMS style of cabinet and cabinet fittings. We also talked about this back at the start, but decided to spend the time and money creating our own look, brand, design and cabinet features. I am very pleased.

At this time we are having the pinball cartons designed and some samples being made. A pro box for a pro game. Again something not hugely riveting but still 2 companies with a small design team to accomplish this.

Similar for some other items and things we are doing, the future of pinball. Our future as a hobby. Obviously patents need to be protected, and we felt with our new light system it was worth the time and effort. Especially for the coming years ahead and some of the game themes we want to do or people we want to partner with. In this case there are dozens more “secrets” behind the scenes we keep quiet, and some really big negotiations in the works and off the blog for good reasons. All of this is important to what we are doing and reflected in the game design ultimately. It’s just not about a playfield.

So for me the quiet time, which is no blogging, is full of work, invention and design. We never stop creating and the Mac computers we use are but a tool and not the source of our genius. Chirp…Jpop

#14838 4 years ago

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

#14839 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

For the last year we have secretly been working a new pinball light structure system for our games. It is something never seen before and we will reveal soon. Everyone will copy it immediately, especially the smaller companies trying to get a stake. It is revolutionary and really cool and customizable.

That is a quote from Jpop... does anyone know what revolutionary light structure system he is talking about here?

12
#14840 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

if I buy an IP from a company, I own that IP. Whether that company was heathy or about to go into bankruptcy is not relevant at that point. When I go to Walmart to buy something I don't investigate whether or not the company that supplied the inventory was paid. I simply buy what they have. A company that is in trouble can sell assets to pay its debts. Me buying that IP gives some cash for that company to pay its debts. Whether it did this with the money or continued to mismanage that money and pissed it away is also not relevant (to me as a buyer of the IP). But once I own the IP, I own it. I don't need to pay anyone that was hired by the party that sold it to me anything.

Quoted from markmon:

And for anyone that thinks they have part ownership in the game because they paid for *a* game I can only say that you don't. You didn't buy stock in Jpop's company and assets. You bought a promise of making and shipping you a completed game. That gives you no rights to the rest of the company assets.

Quoted from dgarrett:

Its Zidware's asset Ice - John P, like it or not, is 100% owner of Zidware and therefore 100% of that machine- what is the question?

Once a company enters the "zone of insolvency", the owners, directors, and managers of the company owe a fiduciary duty to the creditor body as a whole, and they have a fiduciary duty to marshal the company's assets for later distribution to creditors on a pro-rata basis in accordance with applicable laws.

#14841 4 years ago

Let's see what the initial estimate of asset value might be for the large $ value items...
What's the market / how much would you pay for...
the Master prototype?
The 3 RAZA cabinets?
The 3 MG cabinets / 1st proto PFs & parts (used in the Adobe video)?
The patents?
The other 2 partial MG playfields?
The foamcore AIW full size and complete B/W ZombieYeti art?

#14842 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

That is a quote from Jpop... does anyone know what revolutionary light structure system he is talking about here?

Yes. LED boards, with 1,2 or 4 lights each, about 1inch square, wire in serial by a 4 wire ribbon cable with clock, data, ground power - controlled by an arduino, in a 64 address daisy chain. I presume one of the "secrets" he didn't want another maker to "borrow". But that's just a speculation.

#14843 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

That is a quote from Jpop... does anyone know what revolutionary light structure system he is talking about here?

I believe this is it as featured in the adobe video. Light runs in the plastic kind of like a fiber optic effect.

334731.jpg

#14844 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

the patents I always thought were stupid even right in the beginning.
and the way John would tout them, made me roll my eyes, purely for ego reasons, no actual worth.
and in the end all the concern for the waste of time was justified.

Don't forget these valuable trademarks...

ImageAgentProxy.jpg Titanium_Plate.png
#14845 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Yes. LED boards, with 1,2 or 4 lights each, about 1inch square, wire in serial by a 4 wire ribbon cable with clock, data, ground power - controlled by an arduino, in a 64 address daisy chain. I presume one of the "secrets" he didn't want another maker to "borrow". But that's just a speculation.

Something like this?

Screenshot_2015-06-11-09-36-25.png
#14846 4 years ago

John has some patents from 1995-2000 (all assigned to Wms. Gaming), but I only see 2 since then - both cabinet design (ornamental) patents that should be easy to work around.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50&d=PTXT&Query=IN%2FPopadiuk

Ignore the non-pinball results. I don't see any reference to a new pinball lighting scheme.

#14847 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Yes. LED boards, with 1,2 or 4 lights each, about 1inch square, wire in serial by a 4 wire ribbon cable with clock, data, ground power - controlled by an arduino, in a 64 address daisy chain. I presume one of the "secrets" he didn't want another maker to "borrow". But that's just a speculation.

What you are describing was the standard insert and GI lighting system based originally on off-the-shelf parts.

John had mentioned this lighting system as something different. I never saw it because he would hide it any time I would come over.

I believe it had something to do with over-playfield lighting and I "think" was shown as part of the Kiss proto. Not sure though.

#14848 4 years ago
Quoted from Sparky347:

Something like this?

Those are based on the original off-the-shelf RGB "pixels" that John got from Adafruit. The originals had 4 RGB LEDs. I had reverse engineered them and reformatted them into 1, 2, 3, and 4 LED configurations to properly fit a wide variety of insert types.

Apparently these were discarded and redone by Cointaker in a single LED configuration. (I didn't see any of those with more than one LED in them).

BTW, all of the GLM boards had proper locking headers on them.

#14849 4 years ago
#14850 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So for me the quiet time, which is no blogging, is full of work, invention and design. We never stop creating and the Mac computers we use are but a tool and not the source of our genius. Chirp…Jpop

What a penis.

His head was so big, it is a wonder it could fit through a doorway.

rd.

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