6.5 is correct for pins of that era and other eras. I have played Stars that were not so steep and set floaty was fun also.

As well as the nylon spacers Pinball Life sells, you can also use #14 brass washers to lift the flippers away from the play field.

Here is Home Depot, but my local hardware stores carry these washers.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/14-Brass-Flat-Washer-4-Pack-811641/204276458?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-CM-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys&cm_mmc=Shopping-CM-F_D29A-G-D29A-Multi-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA_LIA-NA-NA-MinorAppl_Special_Buys-71700000042813121-58700005464629311-92700067963002094&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr-6lg_by9QIVjClMCh2DNghuEAQYAiABEgLKs_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Just did a flipper rebuild on my Stars and learned the EOS switch setting makes a big difference in flipper strength. The first flipper I rebuilt was weak compared to the other until I bent the new EOS to open right at the of travel. Now both are done and set to open just at the end of travel and are quite strong, and perhaps too strong since the drops brick more than ever.

Is there a spec or rule of thumb for the EOS gap at the end of travel?

Drops shouldn't brick at all. Is the rubber too close relative to the back of the drop?

Too close a gap at end of stroke can cause the slight arc that's produced to weld the contacts together, but that's rare. Sounds like you have it adjusted correctly. Certain situations like Meteor's upper flipper or Seawitch's upper left flipper you can have the EOS open earlier to protect the drop targets. My upper meteor flipper originally had the wrong coil (a 500 instead of the 600), the resistor bypassed, and the EOS adjust as if it were a low flipper. I broke so many of the 6 bank targets that I did some experimenting with the gap and it's fine now. I don't like the dropping resistor as it gets really hot (undertsandably given its job) but you can keep it out and just open the gap way up.

My Stars flippers have no power problems either and I think I even stuck with then gen 1 assemblies. Marcospec used to have a gottlieb plunger that was the correct length for the classic stern flippers for $2 (you had to move the link over, or replace with the gen 2 style which is what I did) that worked great, and I always take the copper coil stops from pops and slings and use them on my flippers since they're hardly worn at all, you can put the flipper ones back in them and since the pulse is so short on those solenoids they don't really go full stroke anyway.

Some of the modern coil stop replacements have residual magnetism issues as they are likely made out of the wrong material.

You figured out how to get more flipper power. Just be careful that you don't go too far. If you push for the bleeding edge on EOS adjustments, you can go too far and burn up a solenoid coil. Ask me how I know. I did it twice so ask me how I know, again.

Yep, I have added this nylon washers in the past - good thing to point out!

And by no means am I suggesting type 1 should be replaced in every instance; my Galaxy and Meteor both have rebuilt originals that have lots of power. I just would advise people to really examine the condition of the base plates and be sure that they can still be rebuilt. I had ordered rebuild kits for Lightning only to find that I couldn’t use them on 2 of the flippers because the coil stop threads were just too mangled!

Swapping the coil stop with the sling or pop is a great idea. I will remember that one.

I need to take some video and gather some more data about the bricking with the flat top drops. I have been reading the tips and the rubber does not look too close and I have the drop assemblies moved forward. A while back I removed and cleaned up the assemblies and rubbed a bit of bar soap on the sliding surfaces to get them to reset reliably.

Next time I have occasion to have the gen-1 drops out with the chichlets I'll take a look at the mech closer. The later ones have an angled lip that helps the drops go down - if they make it down even a little bit when hit, it shouldn't pop back on the shelf lip (unless your spring is way strong).

I'd still like to redesign the mech to have 2 springs like gottlieb drops do. Those are some solid drops.

I don't have a lot of bricking on my stern games other than the 7-8-9 bank on big game. I'll have to fool around with that one at some point.

Finally swapped in the new Seawitch playfield...

IMG_7001 (resized).jpeg

Looking good!

just putting it out there - if people want some Classic Stern Tombstone Drop Targets - check out my thread and reach out.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-tombstone-drop-targets-13a-11-any-interest#post-6772221

I’m on the hunt for the ball trough assembly parts for F2K/Nine Ball. Most importantly the metal ball guide stuff. 7FF85746-4158-490E-B4D6-F7B2D86FD442 (resized).jpegAnybody have a line on these:

Looking for the backglass lockbar
Any knows if one of these are ok to use ?

0F9FFFC2-96A1-4280-B891-C06615F934F2 (resized).png

53B2BCFD-4B42-4599-B90E-1ED975FB1B5B (resized).png

It depends. Classic Stern had a couple options. The first option was a lockbar without out tabs. This option requires your backglass top channel trim to have tabs ( this is what your second picture is). The correct lockbar for this option is found at Mantis Pinball.

https://mantispinball.com/product/stern-backglass-locking-strap/

The second option is to have no tabs on your backglass trim. In that case you would use this lockbar.

https://mantispinball.com/product/stern-backglass-locking-strap-tab/

The Bally lock rail will not work.

This
Screen Shot 2022-02-13 at 8.41.58 AM (resized).png

goes with this
Screen Shot 2022-02-13 at 8.44.39 AM (resized).png

https://mantispinball.com/product/stern-backglass-locking-strap/

Now you get to enjoy paying shipping fees from two different shops. It would be nice if there was a one-stop shop for everything.

Basic flipper help needed.

First time fixing flippers from this era (Stern Stars)

My right flipper, when pressed, stutters terribly and the circuit rapidly opens and closes and opens and closes so long as it is depressed. Opening it up, the left switch parts sparks just like the other side, but repeatedly. It did this occasionally when I got it last weekend, but now it is doing it all the time. So far I have adusted it back and forth a little to no effect, and cleaned the leaf switches by the button and in the flipper circuit. I also replaced the coil sleeves. What am I doing wrong and what is my next troubleshooting step?

Thanks!

20220213_123919 (resized).jpg

Could be a broken Hold winding on coil. have had that happen randomly.

Agreed--you can try swapping flipper coils and see if the problem moves with it.

This.

And it might be a dirty EOS switch that needs cleaned up with a file.

Fantastic input , thank you
This helps me a lot

If the flipper is "machine gunning" 90% of the time it is a broken holding winding.
Check for broken wire by the solder lug area.

If this thin coil lead needs resoldered make sure to sand the varnish off the wire so the solder will stick.

If you are interested, swinks put together a 3d printed Molex 24p connector (03-06-2242) done since it is unobtanium:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/P39CAXX2N/molex-connectors-03-060-2242

It's a good solution in a pinch, i just wish it wasn't like $10 a connector on SHapeways but if you really need one, here it is.
2ce326013e2b5e79043e8d8212a70c76160335b3 (resized).jpg305f5e4df9e783d25d033dbd47752633f81ec981 (resized).jpg

Personally, I can’t see the point of doing maintenance level work on flippers this old.
The flippers are *the* highest wear parts in the entire game. Given that these machines were build to only last a few years, and flippers are the first thing to go, AND the game has outlasted its intended lifespan by an order of magnitude, don’t throw some retreads on there. Replace the whole assembly.

There’s nothing at all wrong with just using a rebuild kit on these flippers, but I have found that the primary bracket assemblies often get completely ruined - the threads where the coil stop attached have just gotten too stressed from the impacts, and are stripped out, making a rebuild impossible.

If you’re buying new assemblies from Pinball Life, you’ll also need new flipper bats, as they only make type 2 flipper bases, not the type 1 used on Stars. (Original flipper shafts are too short for type 2.) But considering that your flipper bats are 40+ year old plastic, it’s a fine time to update them to something a bit fresher as well.

Seeing as you are already in the territory of replacing the coil anyway, why not treat your machine to some brand new flippers, which are clean, have new threading at the coil stops, fresh EOS switches, new coils, new coil sleeves, new bushings, and new bases. You’ll be so psyched to have flippers which really have proper power! Read Vid’s Guide to rebuilding flippers, too. You may have to adjust the EOS switch gap when you install them.

Doesn’t hurt to put in new cabinet switches while you’re at it. The best option that I know of is from Pinball Resource, but they may be available elsewhere.

Eat your hearts out, Classic Stern lovers.

That's rad.. thank you.

3x Stern, 2x Gottlieb. Ugh.. what's the one behind the haunted house tho? I want to say Scorpion, but it doesn't quite fit..

I don't even know what's up with pinballife pricing, but the entire assembly is $3 more than a rebuild kit so why the hell not

https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-stern-flipper-rebuild-kit-left-and-right-flippers.html

https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-classic-stern-machines-031980-to-021982.html

I think it might be Dragonfist.

These machines were brand new when this was filmed. My guess is the producers of the show had connections with a local operator or something.
Screenshot_20220214-232046_Chrome (resized).jpg

Yes, definite match. Thank you!

Those complete assemblies from pinball life are amazing. bought a set for my cheetah and was very happy with the quality.

Not quite apples to apples when you break it down.

Rebuild both flipper mechs = $50
Replace both flipper mechs = $106

Sure but I remember them much cheaper?
Probably just remembering wrong

Reflowed the solder on all the connectors associated with the coil and leaf switches... Nothing. I've got a new coil coming in this week and we shall see if it works. Thanks all!

I would work on that solenoid driver board before you call it fully done/playable. That weird dual cap setup for the 5v filtering can be cleaned up with the correct single cap, and the cap for the high voltage is the original just waiting to fail on you and take your high voltage section with it.

I’m curious about this mod. My Lightning has a problem where it sometimes takes 30-60 seconds to start the 6 test chimes, or even never starts at all. I suspect I just need to repin the connector(s), but I wouldn’t mind making the +5V bulletproof. Here’s the schematic for that section, for reference.

8D9DDF55-DC30-403E-8BA6-7075FBB94684 (resized).png

Add an auxiliary wire from the +15 volt bridge power supply to the +5 volt regulator input.
Or, change the main wire 22awg too 20awg.

I replaced the ancient 12000uF capacitor, and repinned the 12V line at both the rectifier board and the driver board. Lightning is booting 100% reliably now! It’s funny how I have to relearn SS repair basics every couple of years.

Having an issue with my Galaxy (on location) where the score just ratchets up nonstop. Last time it happened I showed up to the location and it was doing it. I put it into switch test assuming there was a switch stuck but nothing was registering. Is there anything else that can cause this problem?

Check the switches on the rollovers as the switch gaps may be too narrow. Are the gaps different between the two rollover switches? A nudge or other small vibration could set off the switch constantly, then stop later.

Bad diode, maybe?

if you hit both flippers rapidly does it gives you points? my guess is a switch is to close and makes contact on minimal vibration causing free points. have this issue a lot on games at work.

Just following up on my Seawitch audio issues (where the wave sound was cut short, but the game otherwise plays, and other sounds are proper).

Anyway, in my shotgun fix attempts, I did replace all caps (no difference).
Checked all the cables, esp the thin audio related flat cables from board to board. must have reseated 10 times.. all good., no difference.
Replaced 4562 (no difference)
Replaced 6840 (no difference)
Went through burn-in test, it makes wave sounds.. not sure if they are correct.

unrelated, I wanted to try out the custom Seawitch code released by Slochar, cleared ram audits from 14 onward.

Wave sound is now correct?
all the original roms verify 100%

Anyway, guessing that somehow clearing the ram may have helped? I never disconnected power, as the board had a memory cap and I never removed it... but perhaps something from the audit clear, or perhaps the new rom cleared it out?.. those are the only variables for it to start working.

Great to hear that nice rolling wave sound again..

Likely, but logically it shouldn't have. Meteor, Galaxy and Dragonfist all have some issues with the previous ram contents in regards to the sound effects IIRC. I doubled checked the seawitch code and I'm not specifically clearing the sound register memory at bootup, so it's nothing special there.

If you put the original roms back in does the wave sound work? If so, likely just clearing the audits fixed it. After looking through the code on how audits are updated, it doesn't make sense the old saw that everyone says (me included) with garbage in the audit can cause issues. The routines would actually just correct anything that's wrong. (The audit would be wrong in terms of tracking stuff for instance, but would be correct in that it would have BCD numbers where there were previously hex.)

No routine yet in the classic stern games (and I've dipped into every one at this point) depends on the value of something being returned from an audit increment. Bad visuals during adjustment/audit display in self test, sure, but nothing game-logic wise. The actual memory locations for the sound registers are just after the audits, but also in between is the # of players in game, and sometimes the currently up player.

Oh, and as far as the mod on the rom itself goes, Seawitch is one of the classic stern games that I don't really think needed much updating. I did add the 2 suggestions that someone asked for re: the standups and the looping, but the rest of the code is pretty much a perfect early solid state ruleset. It even has the bonus collect thing that players seem to over-ly shoot for on games and nicely it doesn't reset the bonus like some of those do. The spinner counter is nice but the spinner isn't as juicy to me on SW as on other games.

I suppose depending on if the game gets turns off when it's in a strange sequence of background, that would cause boot-to-boot issues. The sound code doesn't touch the audit registers though, which is really strange. Maybe a flag in the condition register gets messed up with invalid audit info which causes this.

That's probably deeper to get into than what I'd want to look at right now since a simple clear loop at bootup in the modified romsets fixes this. I'm all about results sometimes vs. asking why. The SB300 sound code kind of annoys me though because it changes every game, with each programmer.

Anyone have a good square picture of a Seawitch light insert or the dimensions of the displays and lights? I need to make one for my build.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/another-stern-bally-seawitch-

Odd question, but anyone know how close a Wild Fyre wire harness is to Stars? I have a project Wild Fyre, and am contemplating how much I can reuse if I turn it into a Stars (ordered the CPR Stars pf).

I didn't have any luck in the Cheetah club thread. Hoping to get some traction here:

ISO original Cheetah plastics, any condition. Physical plastics or 300dpi scans. Thanks!

I just looked on IPDB.org. You would have to do a lot of mod work to make WF harness work on a Stars, IMO. Stars look to have more wiring so you would probably need to add a lot of new wire. But it could be done.

It can be done.