(Topic ID: 225496)

Stern Electronics Club (1977-1984).

By Mitch

3 years ago


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#6201 3 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Clear the ram if you have a replacement MPU board and then check sound test (end of solenoid test). Is the white noise wrong there too?
When the white noise (rockets, explosions, wave noise) is distorted this is usually a problem with the 128 bit shift register, 4562. Bad 4562 I have encountered caused an issue like you describe, white noise effect is distorted. The shift register has a multiple different outputs used (layered?). If one shit output is blown you may get silence at times or wrong sound at other.
This chip is super obsolete. The pulls out of China are even pretty rare. I need to come up with a stack up multiple other shift registers to get an in production jelly bean solution for this obsolete chip. I could not find any other shift register that had all the needed outputs packed in a single chip like 4562. Still have quite a few for replacement boards, but it is going to dry up.

Wow.. thanks for the details. Hopefully the chip is ok. It is just_ the one portion of that wave sound, It still sounds ok, I didn't even really think about it until after my first game.. and was like, wait a second, there's something a little off. I might even have some of those 4562s.. I'll need to dig.

All original boards, so hoping to repair.. but if not, it's awesome to have options., I'm sure happy with the WPC MPU I bought off you before.. it's great!

Thank you-

#6202 3 months ago

Shawn at Third Coast Pinball is already reproducing wire harnesses for Quicksilver, Star Gazer, and Seawitch.

He does great work.

He is busy. You may have to wait a little bit.

https://pinside.com/pinball/biz/directory/1180-third-coast-pinball

Good Luck.

#6203 3 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Shawn at Third Coast Pinball is already reproducing wire harnesses for Quicksilver, Star Gazer, and Seawitch.
He does great work.
He is busy. You may have to wait a little bit.
https://pinside.com/pinball/biz/directory/1180-third-coast-pinball
Good Luck.

Yes I tried to get one for my Seawitch and he said he was backed up 9 month.

#6204 3 months ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Yes I tried to get one for my Seawitch and he said he was backed up 9 month.

Same… and currently not allowing people to get on a list (or at least thats what I was told.)

#6205 3 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

If one shit output is blown you may get silence at times or wrong sound at other.

You need to watch out for a blown shit output

71meR3brFtS._AC_SL1500_ (resized).jpg
#6206 3 months ago

Did this group ever get to the bottom of the issue with repro drop target bricking/dropping upon reset?
I have this problem with drops in Stars, Meteor, and Galaxy. I'm planning to repaint the Stars targets and reinstall them. On Galaxy, one target almost always drops upon reset. On Meteor, one or two of the METEOR targets always drop on reset (not the memory feature), but the rocket targets - all originals - work perfectly.

Is it really just about cutting that little tab a tiny bit shorter on the repros? If so, how would one do that consistently? Or is the only solution here to pony up for the Shapeways targets?

#6207 3 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Did this group ever get to the bottom of the issue with repro drop target bricking/dropping upon reset?
I have this problem with drops in Stars, Meteor, and Galaxy. I'm planning to repaint the Stars targets and reinstall them. On Galaxy, one target almost always drops upon reset. On Meteor, one or two of the METEOR targets always drop on reset (not the memory feature), but the rocket targets - all originals - work perfectly. Is it really just about cutting that little tab a tiny bit shorter on the repros? If so, how would one do that consistently? Or is the only solution here to pony up for the Shapeways targets?

Here's a summary of my experience so far. Meteor is the only classic Stern I have, so this sampling is for just one machine:

Bricking
I would occasionally experience bricking with the 111/222/333 targets that were in the machine when I got it. They all looked beat up and were a mixture of tombstone (which I assume were original) and flattops. After replacing with Swinks/Shapeways, I RARELY have seen any bricking in those 111/222/333 banks....perhaps 3 or 4 times in 100 games.

The same can't be said for the METEOR bank. Even with Swinks in there, hard, head-on hits still brick fairly often. Glancing blows drop them fine. I have the lower power J-25-600 coil in that upper right flipper (J-25-500's in the lower left/right flipper) as specified in the Meteor manual. I'm thinking of going to an ever lesser powered coil for that upper right flipper to see if bricking is reduced....the flipper is so, so close to that drop target bank that it doesn't really need to be that powerful.

Targets Dropping on Reset
I'd get a few of these with the targets that were in the machine, but they were all really beat up and worn down. After replacing them temporarily with new flattops from Marco's, I didn't see this problem anymore (and I did put in new springs, too). Same since I've gone to Swinks. But.....I did have one annoying issue with the "M" target.

The "M" target would occasionally fall after reset...maybe once or twice every other game or two. I took out the target bank and tested (manually) on my bench by quickly lifting the reset bar. Out of 25 iterations, the "M" target fell 6 times (24% of the time). I spent about 4 hours going through the usual culprits:

- even tho the spring was new, I replaced it
- even tho the target was new, I replaced it with another new one AND when back to an original one that was still in decent shape
- looked really, really closely at the touch points of the target, finger, vibrations, etc to see if there were any differences between the "M" and the other working targets in the same bank.
- video taped the action and played it back in slow motion to see how the target was "losing its grip" on the finger and falling down. Nothing obvious.
- then I started checking the tension that the coil spring was providing the finger and noticed it had less "resistance" than the others. So I partially disassembled the target bank and had a closer look.

I noticed one thing different between the "M" target and the rest in that bank.....the memory coil spring's orientation looked different than the others. I swapped the spring around so that the spring was parallel to the bottom of the memory coil bracket. That seemed to provide more tension. I put everything back together and did another bench test. 25/25 iterations worked....target did not drop on the manual reset. I probably introduced this problem myself when I reassembled everything after cleaning it during the restoration.

This was last night - I put the target bank back in the pin and played a few games. The "M" no longer drops on reset! I plan on playing a dozen or so more games tonight and see if it holds up.

So, in summary:
- Swinks helped against bricking in most cases for me, but it's still an issue for the METEOR drop target bank. Will be trying a lower powered coil for that upper flipper.
- Put in new drop target springs whenever you can
- In the METEOR drop target bank, check the orientation of the memory coil spring and make sure it's parallel with the bottom of the coil bracket.
IMG_1072a (resized).jpgIMG_1073a (resized).jpg

#6208 3 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Did this group ever get to the bottom of the issue with repro drop target bricking/dropping upon reset?
I have this problem with drops in Stars, Meteor, and Galaxy. I'm planning to repaint the Stars targets and reinstall them. On Galaxy, one target almost always drops upon reset. On Meteor, one or two of the METEOR targets always drop on reset (not the memory feature), but the rocket targets - all originals - work perfectly.
Is it really just about cutting that little tab a tiny bit shorter on the repros? If so, how would one do that consistently? Or is the only solution here to pony up for the Shapeways targets?

I have my theories that I got to employ when I was building my Star Gazer pin.

I'll start this way. Remove your drop target assembly from the pin and place it on your workbench where you can manipulate the targets manually.

Using the lever, raise your targets into the up position. Did any one of them fall? Now, knock them down with your finger. Pretend your finger is a silverball and give them a good hard snap. Did any one of them brick? I am guessing the answer to both actions is going to be no. Keep doing this test until you are satisfied that your drop assembly is assembled correctly and that the targets are acting correctly.

Once you are 100% happy with the target action on the work bench, then reinstall the drop assembly in the play field.

You only have 2 places you need to look at. Keep in mind that Stern did NOT assemble these 40 year old pinball machines with accuracy.

First item up: You have one or more targets dropping prematurely. Keep in mind that your targets were working fine on the bench. And now they are not. Check to see how much clearance there is between the front of the drop target and the slot the targets set in.

If you have no clearance between the target and the slot then here is what is happening: When the lever raises the targets back up it sort of shoves them forward a little bit. Then the errant target will brush up against the wood in the slot and get "pushed" back down. What you want is .010" to .020" clearance between the wood in the slot and the front of the target. You want the target to be able to raise up freely and not interfere with anything, including the wood in the slot.

Here are the 3 drops in my Seawitch.

This is 3-drop on lower left of play field.

As you can see, there is lots of clearance between the target faces and the wood in the slot. This set works fantastic.

IMG_8902 (resized).jpg

Next up is the 4-drop in the middle of the play field. These drops also work well. But if you look closely, you can see that there is a larger gap between the upper target face and the slot while at the lower target there is not as much clearance ( remember, Stern was not working to high precision ). But there is enough clearance for the targets to stay up properly.

IMG_8903 (resized).jpg

Last up is the upper 4-drop in upper right side of play field. And if you look carefully, you will see that all 4 targets on this assembly are nested right up next to the slot. The top drop target does have some clearance that you can barely see. The other 3 targets are nested right up to the slot. But this target assembly also works well. These 3 targets come right up to the slot but they are not pushing against the slot. So, while they are touching the slot it is not enough to cause premature target dropping.

IMG_8906 (resized).jpg

So, how do you fix it? You have 4 options.

1) You can reset the drop assembly by filling the holes in the play field and moving the drop assembly back about .020". But that is a cumbersome process if you don't know what you are doing.

or

2) You can your get a wood rasp and start removing wood from the slot in front of the target to gain clearance. I will advise you that trying to file/rasp wood from the slot will take a lot longer than you think. There is also the downside that as you a moving the rasp in a downward motion that some of the lower side play field veneer might start delaminating leaving you with splinters of woods and rough edges on the lower side of the slot.

Harbor Freight wood rasps work well for me.

IMG_8909 (resized).JPG

or

3) You can get some heavy grit/80 grit sandpaper and a paint stir stick. Tape a strip of sandpaper to the stir stick and now you have a sandpaper rasp. It will be more gentle than the metal rasp but it will take a lot longer than you think for remove enough material to make a difference.

or

4) You can go nuclear and get out the Dremel Tool with the small sanding barrel. But you have to be very careful to not cut any gouges in the slot. If you are good with a Dremel this will be your fastest way to get the target clearance you need.

I have worked up a method for resetting the entire drop assembly and in most cases, filling the play field holes with dowel and moving the assembly back is my preferred approach for prematurely dropping targets.

That takes care of premature target dropping.
========================================

Now, we have to talk about bricking.

Let's go back to your bench test. I said make like your finger is a silver ball and start snapping those targets down hard. On the work bench, I bet you did not have any bricking going on, did you? But then you install the assembly back into your play field and the bricking starts happening. What has changed? Other than installing the assembly back into the play field, what has changed? Your drop assembly has not changed from the work bench to the play field. What is different? Why are the targets bricking only when the assembly is installed?

The only thing that has changed from the workbench to the play field is that there are now 3-4 posts and a rubber ring sitting behind the targets. Remember, Stern did not assemble these 40 year old pins with precision. Stern was downright sloppy.

This is not Stern, exactly. This is the repro Star Gazer play field. When I built this play field up, I ran into bricking problems with the left drop assembly.

Look carefully that this pic. What you cannot see is the back side of the target slot as it is hidden by the rubber ring. What was happening is another clearance issue just like the targets dropping prematurely. Now there is a clearance issue with the backsides of the targets and the rubber ring. What happens is when the silver ball smacks the target, the targets zings backwards right into the rubber ring, as which point the rubber ring bounces the target right back into its rest position.

Make this next check easy on yourself. Use some masking tape, or something similar, and make your self some tape handles for your targets. And mount the assembly to the play field. Now, push back on a target and see if it is making any contact with the rubber ring on the posts. The target should not touch that rubber ring. Rubber bounces and it will bounce that target right back into its rest position and you have a brick. Double check yourself and pull the target back up with the tape handle. If you see any contact with the rubber ring you need to eliminate that contact. And while you may think you are OK doing this test, consider the possibility that the target shaft might flex a bit when it gets hammered by the silver ball.

IMG_8914 (resized).JPG

I had to make an undercut in the the left rail and move the posts back by one hole dimension. That solved the bricking problem on this set of drops.

IMG_7043 (resized).jpg

Then the upper left drop assembly was giving me problems with both premature target drops and bricking. This was my experimental drop assembly where I figure out this dropping/bricking problem. I used methods #2, #3, and finally #4 listed above to correct the dropping issue. This was my drop assembly I figure this stuff out with; And if I had it to do over again, I would have filled the play field holes wire dowel and reset the drop assembly. Hidesight; You know how it is.

Anyway, after I fixed the dropping issue, I had to go after the bricking issue. And again, this involved moving the posts back by one hole dimension.

I did not get pics of moving the holes but that is not much to it. Fill a hole and then drill a new hole right behind the one that was filled.

I did what I have been telling you and all my target problems went away.

IMG_7042 (resized).jpg

Here is one thing you might try to use to isolate a bricking issue. Remove the rubber ring from behind the targets and replace it with a couple of heavy rubber bands. They are thin and will give you extra clearance and will also keep the ball in control as you are knocking down targets. I would suggest removing any GI lights before you start banging away.

IMG_8907 (resized).jpg

Good Luck

#6209 3 months ago

Any one does restorations on Aprons ?
Mine is pretty bad unfortunately

#6210 3 months ago
Quoted from rvdv:

Any one does restorations on Aprons ?
Mine is pretty bad unfortunately

i feel like cottonm4 may give us one of his priceless post on this one

#6211 3 months ago

Anyone running custom Seawitch code on a Weebly. Any recommendations on a good source to burn the chip?

#6212 3 months ago
Quoted from SR230CC:

Anyone running custom Seawitch code on a Weebly. Any recommendations on a good source to burn the chip?

If you need one, I can help.

#6213 3 months ago
Quoted from rvdv:

Any one does restorations on Aprons ?
Mine is pretty bad unfortunately

Quoted from hisokajp:

i feel like cottonm4 may give us one of his priceless post on this one

Go to a Lowrider car show and look for a Latino painter. Those guys can work magic with pinstripe tape.

Screen Shot 2022-01-20 at 8.51.50 AM (resized).png

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lowrider+paint+jobs

#6214 3 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have my theories that I got to employ when I was building my Star Gazer pin.
I'll start this way. Remove your drop target assembly from the pin and place it on your workbench where you can manipulate the targets manually.
Using the lever, raise your targets into the up position. Did any one of them fall? Now, knock them down with your finger. Pretend your finger is a silverball and give them a good hard snap. Did any one of them brick? I am guessing the answer to both actions is going to be no. Keep doing this test until you are satisfied that your drop assembly is assembled correctly and that the targets are acting correctly.
Once you are 100% happy with the target action on the work bench, then reinstall the drop assembly in the play field.
You only have 2 places you need to look at. Keep in mind that Stern did NOT assemble these 40 year old pinball machines with accuracy.
First item up: You have one or more targets dropping prematurely. Keep in mind that your targets were working fine on the bench. And now they are not. Check to see how much clearance there is between the front of the drop target and the slot the targets set in.
If you have no clearance between the target and the slot then here is what is happening: When the lever raises the targets back up it sort of shoves them forward a little bit. Then the errant target will brush up against the wood in the slot and get "pushed" back down. What you want is .010" to .020" clearance between the wood in the slot and the front of the target. You want the target to be able to raise up freely and not interfere with anything, including the wood in the slot.
Here are the 3 drops in my Seawitch.
This is 3-drop on lower left of play field.
As you can see, there is lots of clearance between the target faces and the wood in the slot. This set works fantastic.
[quoted image]
Next up is the 4-drop in the middle of the play field. These drops also work well. But if you look closely, you can see that there is a larger gap between the upper target face and the slot while at the lower target there is not as much clearance ( remember, Stern was not working to high precision ). But there is enough clearance for the targets to stay up properly.
[quoted image]
Last up is the upper 4-drop in upper right side of play field. And if you look carefully, you will see that all 4 targets on this assembly are nested right up next to the slot. The top drop target does have some clearance that you can barely see. The other 3 targets are nested right up to the slot. But this target assembly also works well. These 3 targets come right up to the slot but they are not pushing against the slot. So, while they are touching the slot it is not enough to cause premature target dropping.
[quoted image]
So, how do you fix it? You have 4 options.
1) You can reset the drop assembly by filling the holes in the play field and moving the drop assembly back about .020". But that is a cumbersome process if you don't know what you are doing.
or
2) You can your get a wood rasp and start removing wood from the slot in front of the target to gain clearance. I will advise you that trying to file/rasp wood from the slot will take a lot longer than you think. There is also the downside that as you a moving the rasp in a downward motion that some of the lower side play field veneer might start delaminating leaving you with splinters of woods and rough edges on the lower side of the slot.
Harbor Freight wood rasps work well for me.
[quoted image]
or
3) You can get some heavy grit/80 grit sandpaper and a paint stir stick. Tape a strip of sandpaper to the stir stick and now you have a sandpaper rasp. It will be more gentle than the metal rasp but it will take a lot longer than you think for remove enough material to make a difference.
or
4) You can go nuclear and get out the Dremel Tool with the small sanding barrel. But you have to be very careful to not cut any gouges in the slot. If you are good with a Dremel this will be your fastest way to get the target clearance you need.
I have worked up a method for resetting the entire drop assembly and in most cases, filling the play field holes with dowel and moving the assembly back is my preferred approach for prematurely dropping targets.
That takes care of premature target dropping.
========================================
Now, we have to talk about bricking.
Let's go back to your bench test. I said make like your finger is a silver ball and start snapping those targets down hard. On the work bench, I bet you did not have any bricking going on, did you? But then you install the assembly back into your play field and the bricking starts happening. What has changed? Other than installing the assembly back into the play field, what has changed? Your drop assembly has not changed from the work bench to the play field. What is different? Why are the targets bricking only when the assembly is installed?
The only thing that has changed from the workbench to the play field is that there are now 3-4 posts and a rubber ring sitting behind the targets. Remember, Stern did not assemble these 40 year old pins with precision. Stern was downright sloppy.
This is not Stern, exactly. This is the repro Star Gazer play field. When I built this play field up, I ran into bricking problems with the left drop assembly.
Look carefully that this pic. What you cannot see is the back side of the target slot as it is hidden by the rubber ring. What was happening is another clearance issue just like the targets dropping prematurely. Now there is a clearance issue with the backsides of the targets and the rubber ring. What happens is when the silver ball smacks the target, the targets zings backwards right into the rubber ring, as which point the rubber ring bounces the target right back into its rest position.
Make this next check easy on yourself. Use some masking tape, or something similar, and make your self some tape handles for your targets. And mount the assembly to the play field. Now, push back on a target and see if it is making any contact with the rubber ring on the posts. The target should not touch that rubber ring. Rubber bounces and it will bounce that target right back into its rest position and you have a brick. Double check yourself and pull the target back up with the tape handle. If you see any contact with the rubber ring you need to eliminate that contact. And while you may think you are OK doing this test, consider the possibility that the target shaft might flex a bit when it gets hammered by the silver ball.
[quoted image]
I had to make an undercut in the the left rail and move the posts back by one hole dimension. That solved the bricking problem on this set of drops.
[quoted image]
Then the upper left drop assembly was giving me problems with both premature target drops and bricking. This was my experimental drop assembly where I figure out this dropping/bricking problem. I used methods #2, #3, and finally #4 listed above to correct the dropping issue. This was my drop assembly I figure this stuff out with; And if I had it to do over again, I would have filled the play field holes wire dowel and reset the drop assembly. Hidesight; You know how it is.
Anyway, after I fixed the dropping issue, I had to go after the bricking issue. And again, this involved moving the posts back by one hole dimension.
I did not get pics of moving the holes but that is not much to it. Fill a hole and then drill a new hole right behind the one that was filled.
I did what I have been telling you and all my target problems went away.
[quoted image]
Here is one thing you might try to use to isolate a bricking issue. Remove the rubber ring from behind the targets and replace it with a couple of heavy rubber bands. They are thin and will give you extra clearance and will also keep the ball in control as you are knocking down targets. I would suggest removing any GI lights before you start banging away.
[quoted image]
Good Luck

Note: on the "bricking" problem, the OEM rubber rings where smaller in diameter than today's rubber rings.

#6215 3 months ago

cottonm4 - maybe this one is for you?

I'm at a loss and so beyond frustrated that this is starting to get comical for me. Just when I think I've got my drop target issues squared away on my Meteor restoration, another one pops up. I won't go into the details of all the drop target problems I've had to date and how I got around them - instead I'll just describe the current, and hopefully last, issue in front of me: The "M" target in the METEOR bank falls after an all-target-bank reset (all four drop target banks reset at once), the kind of reset that is done at the start of a new ball or new game.

The 111/222/333 banks work perfectly. No falling targets, no bricking. These banks are a slightly different design (non-memory, no coils, no bracket fingers for resting targets) than the METEOR bank.

With the METEOR bank on my bench, resetting the drop targets manually (as quickly as I can to mimic the coil reset) does not result in a fallen target 50 out of 50 times.

With the METEOR bank in the game, I can down all the targets 1 by 1 causing a reset to occur repeatedly over and over as depicted in the video - NO fallen targets.

However, after a ball drain (or start of game) where all four of the drop target banks get issued a reset at once, the "M" in the METEOR bank falls most of the time (and in the case of the video I recorded, the "R" also fell!). Since I'm running on the 2021 Meteor code, what you're seeing in the video at the start of a new ball are all the drop banks getting reset including the METEOR bank for the Skill Shot, the "M" target falling on its own to inadvertently complete the Skill Shot before the ball is launched, and the drop bank getting reset on its own with the "M" usually staying up after that and all subsquent downings until the start of the next ball.

Here's a video of what I'm talking about:

The sequence ("M" falls only when all of the target banks are reset at once but not when just the METEOR bank is reset) suggests that some sort of vibration is occurring when all the banks are reset at once causing the suspect "M" target to fall on its own. When the METEOR bank is reset on its own, the "M" rarely falls on its own. And on other rare occasions, the "R" target also falls down.

The METEOR bank has coils for memory so the hardware configuration is a bit different than the other three target banks (111/222/333) that never fail. One big difference is that in the METEOR bank, the drop targets rest on the coil bracket "finger" and not the playfield or target bank ledge.

Here's what I've done to try to find the culprit:
- I tried three different targets in the "M" spot (original tombstone, new Swinks tombstone, and new PBL flattop). All do the same.
- I tried two new springs and the original, older less-tensioned spring on the target.
- I swapped the memory coil bracket (which has the "finger" that the target rests on), bracket spring, target spring, and target itself from a "working" position (the first "E") with the "M". The falling target issue stayed with the "M" position and did not move with the target/spring/coil/bracket to the "E" position suggesting there is nothing wrong with the target, springs, coil or coil bracket.
- I tried putting a "riser" piece of metal on the reset bar that forces the drop targets to go higher on reset. With the drop target being forced to a higher position upon a bank reset, theoretically it gives more opportunity for the coil bracket finger to "spring" into position and catch the target on the way down from the reset.
- I moved the entire bank hardware back about an eighth of an inch on the playfield, filling in the old holes and drilling new ones, to provide more clearance between the target face and the edge of the playfield cutout. It wasn't until after I moved it that I realized the clearance/closeness of the target face to that playfield edge probably doesn't matter for this specific memory target bank because what's closest to the target face is the top, silver rod that is part of the bank assembly. In other words, the target can never come into contact with the front of that playfield cutout edge, but the target faces DO touch that silver rod. Pretty sure that's by design - targets that do not fall on their own also touch that silver rod. It's the same on my Eight Ball Deluxe - that 7 drop target bank (with memory and the same kind of target coil/bracket) also has that silver rod and the target faces are touching it in the up position

METEOR Bar - 2 (resized).jpg

I'm starting to run out of ideas - I've been working on this one problem for about a week, a couple of hours or so per night. Would appreciate any other ideas that folks may have!

METEOR Down - 2 (resized).jpgMETEOR Up - 2 (resized).jpg
#6216 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

cottonm4 - maybe this one is for you?
I'm at a loss and so beyond frustrated that this is starting to get comical for me. Just when I think I've got my drop target issues squared away on my Meteor restoration, another one pops up. I won't go into the details of all the drop target problems I've had to date and how I got around them - instead I'll just describe the current, and hopefully last, issue in front of me: The "M" target in the METEOR bank falls after an all-target-bank reset (all four drop target banks reset at once), the kind of reset that is done at the start of a new ball or new game.
The 111/222/333 banks work perfectly. No falling targets, no bricking. These banks are a slightly different design (non-memory, no coils, no bracket fingers for resting targets) than the METEOR bank.
With the METEOR bank on my bench, resetting the drop targets manually (as quickly as I can to mimic the coil reset) does not result in a fallen target 50 out of 50 times.
With the METEOR bank in the game, I can down all the targets 1 by 1 causing a reset to occur repeatedly over and over as depicted in the video - NO fallen targets.
However, after a ball drain (or start of game) where all four of the drop target banks get issued a reset at once, the "M" in the METEOR bank falls most of the time (and in the case of the video I recorded, the "R" also fell!). Since I'm running on the 2021 Meteor code, what you're seeing in the video at the start of a new ball are all the drop banks getting reset including the METEOR bank for the Skill Shot, the "M" target falling on its own to inadvertently complete the Skill Shot before the ball is launched, and the drop bank getting reset on its own with the "M" usually staying up after that and all subsquent downings until the start of the next ball.
Here's a video of what I'm talking about:
The sequence ("M" falls only when all of the target banks are reset at once but not when just the METEOR bank is reset) suggests that some sort of vibration is occurring when all the banks are reset at once causing the suspect "M" target to fall on its own. When the METEOR bank is reset on its own, the "M" rarely falls on its own. And on other rare occasions, the "R" target also falls down.
The METEOR bank has coils for memory so the hardware configuration is a bit different than the other three target banks (111/222/333) that never fail. One big difference is that in the METEOR bank, the drop targets rest on the coil bracket "finger" and not the playfield or target bank ledge.
Here's what I've done to try to find the culprit:
- I tried three different targets in the "M" spot (original tombstone, new Swinks tombstone, and new PBL flattop). All do the same.
- I tried two new springs and the original, older less-tensioned spring on the target.
- I swapped the memory coil bracket (which has the "finger" that the target rests on), bracket spring, target spring, and target itself from a "working" position (the first "E") with the "M". The falling target issue stayed with the "M" position and did not move with the target/spring/coil/bracket to the "E" position suggesting there is nothing wrong with the target, springs, coil or coil bracket.
- I tried putting a "riser" piece of metal on the reset bar that forces the drop targets to go higher on reset. With the drop target being forced to a higher position upon a bank reset, theoretically it gives more opportunity for the coil bracket finger to "spring" into position and catch the target on the way down from the reset.
- I moved the entire bank hardware back about an eighth of an inch on the playfield, filling in the old holes and drilling new ones, to provide more clearance between the target face and the edge of the playfield cutout. It wasn't until after I moved it that I realized the clearance/closeness of the target face to that playfield edge probably doesn't matter for this specific memory target bank because what's closest to the target face is the top, silver rod that is part of the bank assembly. In other words, the target can never come into contact with the front of that playfield cutout edge, but the target faces DO touch that silver rod. Pretty sure that's by design - targets that do not fall on their own also touch that silver rod. It's the same on my Eight Ball Deluxe - that 7 drop target bank (with memory and the same kind of target coil/bracket) also has that silver rod and the target faces are touching it in the up position
[quoted image]
I'm starting to run out of ideas - I've been working on this one problem for about a week, a couple of hours or so per night. Would appreciate any other ideas that folks may have![quoted image][quoted image]

If you watch the video again, the M is clearly jumping higher than the others on reset. I'd have a close look at the reset arm/mech. Some slop or twisting there maybe causing the issue.

#6217 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

cottonm4 - maybe this one is for you?
I'm at a loss and so beyond frustrated that this is starting to get comical for me. Just when I think I've got my drop target issues squared away on my Meteor restoration, another one pops up. I won't go into the details of all the drop target problems I've had to date and how I got around them - instead I'll just describe the current, and hopefully last, issue in front of me: The "M" target in the METEOR bank falls after an all-target-bank reset (all four drop target banks reset at once), the kind of reset that is done at the start of a new ball or new game.
The 111/222/333 banks work perfectly. No falling targets, no bricking. These banks are a slightly different design (non-memory, no coils, no bracket fingers for resting targets) than the METEOR bank.
With the METEOR bank on my bench, resetting the drop targets manually (as quickly as I can to mimic the coil reset) does not result in a fallen target 50 out of 50 times.
With the METEOR bank in the game, I can down all the targets 1 by 1 causing a reset to occur repeatedly over and over as depicted in the video - NO fallen targets.
However, after a ball drain (or start of game) where all four of the drop target banks get issued a reset at once, the "M" in the METEOR bank falls most of the time (and in the case of the video I recorded, the "R" also fell!). Since I'm running on the 2021 Meteor code, what you're seeing in the video at the start of a new ball are all the drop banks getting reset including the METEOR bank for the Skill Shot, the "M" target falling on its own to inadvertently complete the Skill Shot before the ball is launched, and the drop bank getting reset on its own with the "M" usually staying up after that and all subsquent downings until the start of the next ball.
Here's a video of what I'm talking about:
The sequence ("M" falls only when all of the target banks are reset at once but not when just the METEOR bank is reset) suggests that some sort of vibration is occurring when all the banks are reset at once causing the suspect "M" target to fall on its own. When the METEOR bank is reset on its own, the "M" rarely falls on its own. And on other rare occasions, the "R" target also falls down.
The METEOR bank has coils for memory so the hardware configuration is a bit different than the other three target banks (111/222/333) that never fail. One big difference is that in the METEOR bank, the drop targets rest on the coil bracket "finger" and not the playfield or target bank ledge.
Here's what I've done to try to find the culprit:
- I tried three different targets in the "M" spot (original tombstone, new Swinks tombstone, and new PBL flattop). All do the same.
- I tried two new springs and the original, older less-tensioned spring on the target.
- I swapped the memory coil bracket (which has the "finger" that the target rests on), bracket spring, target spring, and target itself from a "working" position (the first "E") with the "M". The falling target issue stayed with the "M" position and did not move with the target/spring/coil/bracket to the "E" position suggesting there is nothing wrong with the target, springs, coil or coil bracket.
- I tried putting a "riser" piece of metal on the reset bar that forces the drop targets to go higher on reset. With the drop target being forced to a higher position upon a bank reset, theoretically it gives more opportunity for the coil bracket finger to "spring" into position and catch the target on the way down from the reset.
- I moved the entire bank hardware back about an eighth of an inch on the playfield, filling in the old holes and drilling new ones, to provide more clearance between the target face and the edge of the playfield cutout. It wasn't until after I moved it that I realized the clearance/closeness of the target face to that playfield edge probably doesn't matter for this specific memory target bank because what's closest to the target face is the top, silver rod that is part of the bank assembly. In other words, the target can never come into contact with the front of that playfield cutout edge, but the target faces DO touch that silver rod. Pretty sure that's by design - targets that do not fall on their own also touch that silver rod. It's the same on my Eight Ball Deluxe - that 7 drop target bank (with memory and the same kind of target coil/bracket) also has that silver rod and the target faces are touching it in the up position
[quoted image]
I'm starting to run out of ideas - I've been working on this one problem for about a week, a couple of hours or so per night. Would appreciate any other ideas that folks may have![quoted image][quoted image]

What transformer do you have installed in the game? Can you still see the part number? Do you know if it is the original?

#6218 3 months ago

Maybe this video could help?

#6219 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

The "M" target in the METEOR bank falls after an all-target-bank reset (all four drop target banks reset at once), the kind of reset that is done at the start of a new ball or new game.

Does it do it with the stock factory code? There's clearly nothing wrong with the way your bank is resetting when it's the only bank. If the M is going slightly higher - is that the side that has the coil on it? The coil side usually naturally goes up a little bit because of torsion.

Maybe a slight delay should be added to Meteor2021 between the drop bank resets if it is vibration from the 2's target bank (since that's the closest one). Drop banks (or any large coil operated mech) needs a longer pulse in the software vs. a sling or pop.

#6220 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Maybe a slight delay should be added to Meteor2021 between the drop bank resets if it is vibration from the 2's target bank

I can report that my Meteor exhibits similar behavior while running the original code.
But, that said, I think your idea would be very interesting to pursue. Should be very easy to tweak the code in that way. DickHamill !!

#6221 3 months ago

hey Mathazar do you have any photos of that Meteor drop bank assembly while on the bench from different angles? It might help understand the mech better - like is the bar below bent towards or away from the M & R that could result in the M & R reset difference.

#6222 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

If you watch the video again, the M is clearly jumping higher than the others on reset. I'd have a close look at the reset arm/mech. Some slop or twisting there maybe causing the issue.

I actually have the M going higher on purpose with an extra piece of metal attached to the reset bar thinking that if the target got more clearance on the way up, it would provide the memory coil bracket more of an opportunity to "spring" into place and hold the target. This theory is somewhat bore out but the fact of when that extra piece of metal is removed from the reset bar, the M falls more often (including when the METEOR bank is reset alone/by itself). I'm going to take a closer look at the reset bar but upon first look, there doesn't appear to be any slop or extra play.

Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

What transformer do you have installed in the game? Can you still see the part number? Do you know if it is the original?

It's a 16B-6. Original as far as I can tell.

Quoted from play_pinball:

Maybe this video could help?

That was an interesting video - thank you. One idea I got from it was to try perhaps a shorter target spring than what I'm using (the old original one that has very little tension and the new Marco replacements I put in during the resto). Also I'm going to take a closer look at the reset bar when it touches the bottom of the target arms to see if they're all making contact at the same time...perhaps there's an adjustment there that can be done.

Quoted from slochar:

Does it do it with the stock factory code? There's clearly nothing wrong with the way your bank is resetting when it's the only bank.

Yes, it does it with the stock code too. I did the video with the 2021 Meteor code because it was easier to turn the sound down (I have an external amp driving a set of external speakers).

Quoted from swinks:

do you have any photos of that Meteor drop bank assembly while on the bench from different angles? It might help understand the mech better - like is the bar below bent towards or away from the M & R that could result in the M & R reset difference.

When I get some time later this afternoon, I'm going to try those few ideas above. If no improvements made, I'll take the bank out again and get multiple pictures from multiple angles while on the bench and then post.

Thank you all for your suggestions!

#6223 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

It's a 16B-6. Original as far as I can tell.

That is the correct one. Check to make sure it is wired up correctly. It seems like you're missing a little power when everything is being called into action. Maybe it is using 115V when it should be using 120V.

Transfomer (resized).png
#6224 3 months ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

That is the correct one. Check to make sure it is wired up correctly. It seems like you're missing a little power when everything is being called into action. Maybe it is using 115V when it should be using 120V.

Damn...I thought maybe you were on to something here, Mad_Dog_Coin_Op - I checked my transformer and indeed it was wired for 115V. I moved the yellow wire from Lug 9 to Lug 5 for 120V, but the same drop target symptoms occur. Great idea, tho - thank you.

I've now made the problem worse by making the falling drops occur 100% of the time even when only the METEOR bank is getting reset by itself. Or perhaps this is better as with it failing every time now and randomly with every target in the METEOR bank, perhaps it'll be easier to isolate.

I made the problem worse by removing the hack I put in weeks ago....securing some metal strips on the reset bar where the bottom of the drop targets rest so that they're thrown higher during a reset allowing the memory coil bracket fingers better opportunity to engage and catch the target as it's coming down. With those metal strips in place, no falling targets except for the "M" on the all-banks reset (as depicted in the video). Without those metal strips in place on the reset bar, all METEOR targets randomly fall on reset whether it's the all-reset kind or just the METEOR bank.

I took the bank coil off and checked the coil stop....looks good. Thought maybe if it was mushroomed it might affect something, but it looks smooth, round, and solid. The plunger action is smooth, no resistance, tho the coil sleeve is the original metal kind (I tumbled it and ultrasonic cleaned it during the resto) but I could change it out to a modern plastic sleeve if anyone thinks that might help.

I took a bunch of pictures of the METEOR bank on my bench. Anyone see anything wrong? I did another 50 out of 50 resets successfully on the bench, no drops at all, pulling up the coil plunger to manually mimic what's going on in the pin. There is practically no play in the reset bar mechanism (no more than all my other SS pins).

I still have the bank on my bench if anyone wants to see a picture of something particular, like maybe the targets resting on the memory coil bracket fingers (I'll have to remove the top silver round bar to get a pic of that).

One thing I haven't tried yet is a shorter drop target spring for more tension....I don't have any. I'm toying with the idea of cutting down some new target springs to a smaller size, putting them on maybe 2 of the targets, and see how those 2 targets behave.

IMG_1089 (resized).JPGIMG_1090 (resized).JPGIMG_1091 (resized).JPGIMG_1092 (resized).JPGIMG_1093 (resized).JPGIMG_1094 (resized).JPGIMG_1095 (resized).JPGIMG_1096 (resized).JPGIMG_1097 (resized).JPGIMG_1098 (resized).JPGIMG_1099 (resized).JPGIMG_1100 (resized).JPGIMG_1101 (resized).JPGIMG_1102 (resized).JPGIMG_1103 (resized).JPGIMG_1104 (resized).JPGIMG_1105 (resized).JPGIMG_1106 (resized).JPG
#6225 3 months ago

Check the link and see if there's any excessive play in it.
Also I think the targets should reset just slightly above the finger because the spring snap action is greatest then vs going higher up and more of the static snap. I'm probably not conveying exactly what I mean here but I'm trying....

#6226 3 months ago

when you look at this photo it looks like the M & R have a slight twist - not sure if it is a optical thing of if at the pivot point they sit differently that might contribute to more likely resets

aHR0cHM6Ly9vLnBpbnNpZGUuY29tL2EvNDcvMTYvYTQ3MTYxOGI5MTM0NzlkN2Q0YTQyZjQ2ZWQzYjk4ODAxNjc2NGJkNS5qcGc (resized).jpg
#6227 3 months ago

Is it consistently the same ones being dropped? I had one of my memory coils on my F2K that would fire anytime the bank reset.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/price-check-1980-sterns-quicksilver-stargazer-seawitch/page/83#post-5948528

#6228 3 months ago

Note: if you want a firmer control of Stern memory drop targets add nylon snap bushings
to the D/T link 1A-491. I did it on a F2000.

#6229 3 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Note: if you want a firmer control of Stern memory drop targets add nylon snap bushings
to the D/T link 1A-491. I did it on a F2000.

Source for the nylon bushing and does it work with this other type of link?

408CBC85-EB24-422B-A197-D58FA9A8FA8E (resized).png
#6230 3 months ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Source for the nylon bushing and does it work with this other type of link?
[quoted image]

Marco Specialties has some Nyliner bearing/bushings #20-8790 that should work.
Side Note:
The Fight 2000 9 bank memory D/T assembly parts were worn out at the time...
The parts to replace, at the time, did not exist anymore. So I used what Bally did
to their D/T banks and added the Nyliners to each link...
In all, once rebuilt the #1-#5 Drop targets started to work correctly in the game.
The only thing, was the action of the drop targets was very controlled... no sloppy
wobbly drop.

#6231 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Check the link and see if there's any excessive play in it.

slochar - would you consider this excessive play? It's about the same as all the DT's in the pin (including the 111/222/333 banks that all work perfectly).

Quoted from vec-tor:

Note: if you want a firmer control of Stern memory drop targets add nylon snap bushings
to the D/T link 1A-491. I did it on a F2000.

Where exactly does that bushing go on the link? Do you by chance have a picture of it installed on your F2K?
Target Link (resized).jpg

Do you put one just where the drop target meets the 1A-491 or also at the other end of the 1A-491 that meets the 2A-225-3 rod?

Quoted from play_pinball:

Is it consistently the same ones being dropped?

Not any more. In my original video above, only the M and occasionally the R would drop when all 4 drop target banks were reset but would consistently work when it was just the METEOR bank reset. Since then I've made things worse (by removing a hack on the bank's reset bar lifts the targets higher) and now all of targets in the METEOR bank drop randomly on a reset no matter of it's all the drop target banks being reset at once or just the METEOR bank.

Manual reset testing still works ok on my bench. Normally I'd think "move the drop target back backward on the playfield about an 1/8" so that the drop target face doesn't bounce off the playfield cutout on reset" but it looks back far enough now. Especially since the silver bar on the DT assembly prevents the drop target face from touching the playfield cut out anyway.
METEOR Up (resized).JPG

Even tho I got the same "dropping M" problem with three different targets (original tombstone, Swinks repro tombstone, and PBL repro flattop) I'm thinking of putting all of the PBL repros back in along with the reset bar height hack I did and re-baseline where I'm at now. With that configuration, I had over a 100 games played with no drops but a heck of a lot of bricking. But if I can get back to that level of operation, I can try this again one step at a time instead of making multiple changes at once and see where it goes off the rails.

#6232 3 months ago

I meant the link on the reset plunger. Nothing at all on the drop link itself. There's the plunger and then bakelite link - that wears. The later stern games use a plastic type link which doesn't wear or at least wear as quick (I replaced the bally one with the stern one recently on a mata hari as the bakelite was just too sloppy when resetting to work correctly)

Still doesn't make sense why it work with all of them down though? That's the real head scratcher, there.

#6233 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

at the other end of the 1A-491 that meets the 2A-225-3 rod?

Yes that area... The drop target side of the link was left alone.
The rod was worn out where the links rub against it, and the 1A-491 links had oblong
holes from the wear and tear at the same spot.

#6234 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

the current, and hopefully last, issue in front of me: The "M" target in the METEOR bank falls after an all-target-bank reset (

I believe that I have solved this problem. It certainly seems to have eliminated the issue for me.

I had the playfield out so that I could install the new, socketed lamp boards on my machine. Hooray! No more flakey lights.
It only made sense to get the big drop bank out of the way to facilitate the project. I figured I'd have another look at the bank while I had it out. I've had basically the same issue, though not only the M target. On reset, mine usually dropped one or more targets, when it's supposed to reset them all.

Apologies in advance that I didn't shoot any pictures. I wanted to get those lamp boards in. I'll try to be very specific in my description.

I noticed that, when I pull the plunger into the coil to reset the targets, the little lip of the targets which rests on the metal "fingers" of the memory target coils just *barely* clears those fingers. If I pulled the plunger up slowly, *none* of the targets would engage, and remain up. If I pulled it up suddenly, some of them would stay put. Sometimes all of them would, but that was unusual. Almost always there'd be a couple that didn't stay up.

If I raised the targets from the reset arm on the *non-solenoid* side of the target cage, those little lips on the targets rose up significantly higher - as much as a solid 1/16". Pulling the targets up from this side, they stayed up every single time.

So, what we need to do is gain some height when the targets re-set. One way to do that would be to shim the reset bar. But they didn't need them "back in the day", so I figured I'd like to avoid that if possible. Another option would be to grind down the coil stop, but that seems uncalled for and kinda lacking in finesse.

Finally, it hit me: If I pull the coil plunger all the way in, and *clamp it there*, in the fully retracted reset position, then I can readjust the reset bar using the hex screws on either end. When I cleaned and reassembled my drops, I hadn't considered anything other than letting the targets be at rest, and then tightening the screws in that position. So, I got a small clamp and held the plunger in all the way, loosened the reset bar adjustment screws, and moved the bar up a bit, to where the targets cleared the memory coil fingers significantly. It's a tad fiddly, but not too terrible. You'll probably have a slight unevenness between the M and the R end, but as long as you raise the action overall, you should be fine.

When I got everything reassembled and started up the game, *VOILA*. It reset the whole bank, consistently, every single time.

#6235 3 months ago

The possible down side to this is that the screws could tend to go out of adjustment eventually. But, once you know what to do, it takes only minutes to readjust. One could make the argument for thread locking compound in this application.

I suspect that on the repro drop targets, the little tabs that they hang on are ever so slightly too long. My Galaxy drop targets worked fine until I replaced the targets. As soon as I did, the red star started dropping about 50% of the time.
It seems to me that bricking is related to target bank placement, as cottonm4 explained in such helpful detail. But targets dropping upon reset - this adjustment should clear up the problem.

I had considered slicing off the tip of that little lip on the targets with the Dremel tool, but thought better of it, since it would be hard to shave them off consistently, and have the targets line up at the same height.
Again, I suspect this problem may return if the set screws let go over time, but I just played 4 games in a row with flawless performance from the drop bank.

Hope this is helpful.

#6237 3 months ago

Sorry, wrong club for Mata Hari!

68ED3D12-56B1-4CE7-8142-76789240ED37 (resized).jpegD22C64A2-4E7F-479B-93C8-9358DB3AD164 (resized).jpeg
#6238 3 months ago

Does anyone know the correct pcb standoffs for the SB-100 (Trident if that matters)? I've ordered a few and none of them fit correctly. Thanks!

#6239 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinash:

Does anyone know the correct pcb standoffs for the SB-100 (Trident if that matters)? I've ordered a few and none of them fit correctly. Thanks!

Did you try Pinball Life?
https://www.pinballlife.com/search.html

#6240 3 months ago

PL has two, M-1829-1 and M-1829-2. Unfortunately with their expensive shipping, I've been waiting until I have a larger order before trying their offerings.

#6241 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinash:

PL has two, M-1829-1 and M-1829-2. Unfortunately with their expensive shipping, I've been waiting until I have a larger order before trying their offerings.

Buy some wax, pinballs, levelers, maybe a flipper rebuild kit, coil sleeves?

#6242 3 months ago

I’ll throw a few in an envelope and send them your way tomorrow Pinash

#6243 3 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I’ll throw a few in an envelope and send them your way tomorrow Pinash

Helping me out yet again! Thanks so much, its very appreciated!

#6244 3 months ago

I think my long drop target bank saga has come to an end today! If you're not familiar with the issues I posted in this thread about my Meteor five-drop-target bank over the last few weeks, here's a brief summary:

After swapping out the PBL flattop METEOR targets with Swinks tombstones (which look so much nicer....tombstone targets in all 111/222/333/METEOR banks!), I had a multitude of issues - bricking, randomly falling targets, and the M (and sometimes L) target ALWAYS falling on the first reset but never the second. It was baffling.

Along the way, I dissembled and reassembled the target bank two dozen times. I tried different size and tension springs. I tried the original drop targets, PBL repros, and Swink repros. I shimmed the reset bar so that the drop targets would get more height, clear the memory coil fingers, and grab them on the way down. In an experiment with a donor drop target, I shaved away and made more level the drop target lip that rests on the memory coil finger. I moved memory coil bracket/fingers around, seeing if problems followed the brackets or stay in the position. I tried different springs and orientations of the springs on the coil brackets. I filled in the playfield mounting holes and re-drilled new ones, moving the bank around, 3 times. I replaced the coil stop even tho the one in the target bank looked ok. I added a bushing to the plunger linkage to the reset bar even tho it looked circular/round, and not oval-like after years of use.

Here are the things that made a difference, and three of the four came from you guys in this thread:

Bricking
I was hoping that simply replacing the repro flattop targets with Swink tombstones would make the bricking go away on the METEOR bank. It did on the three 111/222/333 banks. But the METEOR bank continued to brick an awful lot...so much so, I was close to putting in a less powerful coil for the upper flipper to see if that would help. In the end, it was cottonm4 's advice to move the target bank forward, and not be so close to the rear rubbers, that seems to have done the trick. I've played only a small sample of games (10 so far), but not one brick. Normally, I'd get several bricks per ball. Nice.

More Power!
Mad_Dog_Coin_Op suggested that my pin might be set up for 115v instead of 120v and perhaps the extra 5v would help reset the target bank better/higher/faster/etc. His guess that the transformer might be wired for 115v was right! And I never noticed! I rewired it for 120v. While that didn't resolve the drop target issue, there was an unexpected benefit from doing that...the slings and pop bumper seem a bit more "peppy" now.

Randomly Falling Targets
I must've fiddled with adjusting the reset bar a couple dozen times, shimming it, not shimming it, making sure it's not bent, etc. etc. In the end, it was sethbenjamin 's advice to clamp the plunger in the pulled in / up position and adjust the reset bar from there with the targets at a tiny height above the memory coil fingers (instead of adjusting the bar will everything is at rest) that did it. No more randomly falling targets on a reset, but I STILL had one target that would occasionally fall on the first reset, but not subsequent ones.

Single Drop Target Falling
This one really vexed me, especially since it seemed like it could be software related given it's consistency (and with the targets resetting and staying up 100% of the time during bench tests and every reset in the game after the first one). Knowing the answer now, it totally makes sense. And I didn't stumble across this until a few hours ago.

When I finished the restoration in early December, I replaced the leaf switches for the three rollover inserts with MRS (magnetic reed switches). They worked great for >100 games. With the old leaf switches, no matter how I adjusted the tension, the ball would always change direction rolling over the star insert...it was just too stiff. I xacto'd out a lot of clearcoat from the playfield star cuts of the CPR repro, but it's still pretty stiff. Anyway....I got rid of the leaf switches, put in three MRS's, and the ball rolls over the star insert like butter and registers for score every time without the ball changing trajectory.

Well...I was going thru the pin's self-test today to ID some lamps that needed to be changed and I went too far and got into the switch test, and "38" was listed as closed. "38" is the top right rollover. Then it dawned on me - that rollover can also, when lit, DROP A SINGLE TARGET IN THE METEOR BANK. I cut one of the wires for that MRS and the "38" went to "0". That MRS was shorted and the switch was constantly registering as engaged/closed.

So....at the start of game and start of ball (with the new METEOR 2021 code), the METEOR target bank resets and starts Skill Shot mode. Then the broken rollover MRS switch signal is sent....if that rollover was lit (and it usually is at start of game or ball), a drop target falls. That marks the end of the Skill Shot mode and the METEOR bank is reset again, and they all stay up because that rollover light is no longer lit and the fact that it's closed does nothing!

New MRS switch is on the way and in the meantime I put the original leaf switch back in temporarily. What a relief to have this issue dealt with....it's been plaguing me for weeks!

Thank you to everyone for their input and suggestions....

#6245 3 months ago

BTW - with this drop target business behind me now, here's the next mod I'm considering doing on my Meteor:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-2021-new-code-for-stern-meteor-1979/page/6#post-6742784

#6246 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

BTW - with this drop target business behind me now, here's the next mod I'm considering doing on my Meteor:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/meteor-2021-new-code-for-stern-meteor-1979/page/6#post-6742784

Blah.

#6247 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

More Power!
Mad_Dog_Coin_Op suggested that my pin might be set up for 115v instead of 120v and perhaps the extra 5v would help reset the target bank better/higher/faster/etc. His guess that the transformer might be wired for 115v was right! And I never noticed! I rewired it for 120v. While that didn't resolve the drop target issue, there was an unexpected benefit from doing that...the slings and pop bumper seem a bit more "peppy" now.

Does the 5v make that much difference? Around here your house voltage can be +/-5 depending how far you are from the street transformer.

#6248 3 months ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

More Power!
Mad_Dog_Coin_Op suggested that my pin might be set up for 115v instead of 120v and perhaps the extra 5v would help reset the target bank better/higher/faster/etc. His guess that the transformer might be wired for 115v was right! And I never noticed! I rewired it for 120v. While that didn't resolve the drop target issue, there was an unexpected benefit from doing that...the slings and pop bumper seem a bit more "peppy" now.

That would depend on what your wall voltage is. The lower taps are meant to match your wall voltage to make the output voltage hit a target voltage. If you had it tapped for 115v and you actually put 120v into it, you would get more voltage out the original way.

#6249 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinash:

Does the 5v make that much difference? Around here your house voltage can be +/-5 depending how far you are from the street transformer.

It really should not for bank reset.

#6250 3 months ago

I have a Stern Seawitch i have restored pretty much from the ground up. It is working 100 percent except for one issue. On the switched illumination the lights flicker instead of staying on solid. The game has all incandescent bulbs and no LEDs. During the restoration all of the boards were swapped with other working board and the problem persisted. Any ideas would be much appreciated.

20210912_164021 (resized).jpg
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