Long time sys 11 guy here, more recently converted to classic Stern lover; picked up Galaxy this January, sold my Diner and purchased Stars and a project Lightning with the proceeds. So far I’m really enjoying Galaxy and Stars, Lightning hasn’t been started in on just yet (kinda hoping somebody makes a repro playfield, but otherwise will restore.)

My question to this group at the moment is, what is it about classic Stern flippers which makes dead flipper passes so iffy? Unless the ball is really moving, many times allowing it to bounce over just makes it kind of die and drain SDTM. This doesn’t happen on the system 9 and 11 Williams games I’m more familiar with, or on the 90s pins I have worked on. Is it the “extra weight” of having a metal plate in the flipper body, making it less “live”? I really love the games, have yet to play a classic stern O didn’t enjoy, but it does require an adjustment in the “feel” of playing. Anyone have any insights on this?

I’m gathering thoughts for a “feasibility study” on the idea of scratch-building a Nine Ball.
I see people doing these builds on other games, and since I missed the window on this title before it shot up stratospherically in price, figured “shoot, maybe I should just build one.”

But the more I looked into it, the more challenges presented themselves.
Major challenges I have identified so far primarily have to do with game-specific parts:

- one-sided spinner is unique, as far as I know. That means sourcing or fabricating a reproduction of birth the spinner and the bracket.

- single drop target mechanism in front of the horse shoe. In theory, one could install the Williams single drop mech from ST:TNG or IJ, and then 3D print a wider faced special drop target. Like I said, in theory.

- 9-bank of drop targets. This is another hard to come by item, and the drops also have individual solenoids, correct? This on its own could be a deal-breaker.

The rest of the parts needed seem like a matter of patience and scavenging (apron, transformer, coin door, etc.)
What do the rest of you think, is this a pipe dream or is it something worth pursuing?

That looks SUPER RAD! I love it!
Might have to pursue that option when I get around to restoring mine. I had no idea!

I’m banking on somebody making the metal guides at some point, and preferably on somebody making the harness, though I have some tech savvy friends who might be able to help out with the harness if it comes to that.

Wooden rails I can whip up pretty easily in my shop. I thought there was somebody making them for sale, but iff you get stuck on that part hit me up.

Ayup. I just did the same, plus a plastic set, transformer, and apron. We’ll see how long before my wife starts expressing concerns about the credit card statement…

Cool to see that the potential is here to get those specialty parts made. To me it really doesn’t make sense to pay the same money as a scratch build would cost just to get a game which would be a restoration project to me anyway. Nine Ball has become so pricey and hard to find, it seems like as just as good a candidate as QS and Stargazer for the scratch build treatment.

Absolutely.
I mean, sure, we can scrounge around for old drop banks; I’m not above using Gottlieb if that’s what becomes available, but it sure would be nice to just be able to buy what you need to do a scratch build. I only became aware that people were doing them this past year, and am really intrigued by the possibilities. Now that there are so many parts becoming available, it would be fantastic to whittle down those “sticking points”; drop banks seem like a really good project to pursue. You’ll never make *everybody* happy with how you end up designing them, but hey, other folks can find an option more to their liking if they want. I would think enough people would be excited about a fresh new drop bank for their games that there would be a brisk business selling them! (I’d buy a pair of 3-banks RIGHT NOW if they were available )

I’m gradually collecting parts for my eventual NB scratch build. One thing I can’t turn up are the metal ball guides, but another Pinsider can make repros, provided he has good working photos to help him. Does anybody on here have partial teardown pics showing the ball guides still on the playfield?

I got my Flight 2000 drop target bank over the weekend, which I bought with the intention of doing a Nine Ball scratch build. The obvious next question is, can I get additional lift arms and "knockdown" arms anywhere? Is that the sort of thing that would have to be scavenged off of other drop banks?

All of which raises the point again that reproduction drop targets would be a real boon to the hobby at this point!

Anyone have a line on where to find 2" 6-32 carriage bolts?
I'm starting a restoration on a Lightning, and some of the posts are fastened with those, rather than the usual post studs - and none of the post studs are actually long enough to work with the taller plastic post spacers used on this game.
The ones on the machine had semi-welded themselves to the nuts and had to be broken off to be removed.
Online I can only find places that want me to buy 3,000 at a time.
Anyhow, I figure I can't be the first person to come up against this problem. This isn't some exotic thing, but if somebody could point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful!

Ah, of course. I should have come up with that on my own! That reminds me not to seek help with simple problems at 11:30 at night, lol.

Trickier question: there is a ball feed mechanism which prevents the ball from bouncing back into the outhole - it uses a *very fine spring* to reset. I’m actually working on two of these machines; one has the spring but it seems not long for this world, the other is missing it entirely. Does anybody know a part number or alternative part for this?

image (resized).jpg

Ok, next question…

EVERY insert on these machines has both moved and sunken. I’m no stranger to replacing inserts, and I’m not a fan of eye-dropper if clear coat to level them out. It’s just not a good option when you have a lot of this going on.

On the other hand, while I can find faceted inserts all over Pinball Life, nobody seems to have non-faceted inserts in all the sizes/colors needed for a Lightning. Does anyone know of a source for the stock style inserts?
I’m not a purist, so I would go with faceted if it came to that. Would sooner swap all the inserts to the same style than end up with a mix, honestly.

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Looked there first. I can only get flat colors in the round inserts, but arrows the only flat ones available are the yellow, from what I've seen so far. I'm OK with using the more familiar "starburst" style if that's all that's available (they look nicer, even if they aren't "stock".) Just wanted to see if anyone had a source for the original style before I committed to that course...

I’ve done the same in the past. These inserts are *particularly* bad, and some of the arrows aren’t even just concave, they are warped in more than one plane. Just a total mess.

Yes. I wrote to PBR and have not gotten a reply, unusual for them.
PPS baffles me. They don’t have the old style ones.

Hey all - in case folks missed it elsewhere...Dick Hamill has programmed fantastic new code for Galaxy. I loaned him my machine back in July, and as of December, he had worked out this amazing new rule set. Completely changes the machine, for the better. The whole playfield is really brought into the gameplay for the first time.
Dick's working on a second draft of the code to make a few more options available (as it is now, it's ridiculously hard for a middling player such as myself!), but even as it, I think you'll agree it's pretty great. Check it out!

Lightning is slated for a re-write as well, I'm restoring a pair of them currently and one will go to him at some point to tinker with.

Is there anyplace online or on Pinside where all the classic Stern upgrades are listed off with how-tos?
I know that the knocker should get a fuse, but not what rating, and I know there are a few other safeguards like that which are supposed to be followed on these machines, but haven't seen them compiled in one place before.

Man…I always forget about PinWiki!

Did this group ever get to the bottom of the issue with repro drop target bricking/dropping upon reset?
I have this problem with drops in Stars, Meteor, and Galaxy. I'm planning to repaint the Stars targets and reinstall them. On Galaxy, one target almost always drops upon reset. On Meteor, one or two of the METEOR targets always drop on reset (not the memory feature), but the rocket targets - all originals - work perfectly.

Is it really just about cutting that little tab a tiny bit shorter on the repros? If so, how would one do that consistently? Or is the only solution here to pony up for the Shapeways targets?

I can report that my Meteor exhibits similar behavior while running the original code.
But, that said, I think your idea would be very interesting to pursue. Should be very easy to tweak the code in that way. DickHamill !!

I believe that I have solved this problem. It certainly seems to have eliminated the issue for me.

I had the playfield out so that I could install the new, socketed lamp boards on my machine. Hooray! No more flakey lights.
It only made sense to get the big drop bank out of the way to facilitate the project. I figured I'd have another look at the bank while I had it out. I've had basically the same issue, though not only the M target. On reset, mine usually dropped one or more targets, when it's supposed to reset them all.

Apologies in advance that I didn't shoot any pictures. I wanted to get those lamp boards in. I'll try to be very specific in my description.

I noticed that, when I pull the plunger into the coil to reset the targets, the little lip of the targets which rests on the metal "fingers" of the memory target coils just *barely* clears those fingers. If I pulled the plunger up slowly, *none* of the targets would engage, and remain up. If I pulled it up suddenly, some of them would stay put. Sometimes all of them would, but that was unusual. Almost always there'd be a couple that didn't stay up.

If I raised the targets from the reset arm on the *non-solenoid* side of the target cage, those little lips on the targets rose up significantly higher - as much as a solid 1/16". Pulling the targets up from this side, they stayed up every single time.

So, what we need to do is gain some height when the targets re-set. One way to do that would be to shim the reset bar. But they didn't need them "back in the day", so I figured I'd like to avoid that if possible. Another option would be to grind down the coil stop, but that seems uncalled for and kinda lacking in finesse.

Finally, it hit me: If I pull the coil plunger all the way in, and *clamp it there*, in the fully retracted reset position, then I can readjust the reset bar using the hex screws on either end. When I cleaned and reassembled my drops, I hadn't considered anything other than letting the targets be at rest, and then tightening the screws in that position. So, I got a small clamp and held the plunger in all the way, loosened the reset bar adjustment screws, and moved the bar up a bit, to where the targets cleared the memory coil fingers significantly. It's a tad fiddly, but not too terrible. You'll probably have a slight unevenness between the M and the R end, but as long as you raise the action overall, you should be fine.

When I got everything reassembled and started up the game, *VOILA*. It reset the whole bank, consistently, every single time.

The possible down side to this is that the screws could tend to go out of adjustment eventually. But, once you know what to do, it takes only minutes to readjust. One could make the argument for thread locking compound in this application.

I suspect that on the repro drop targets, the little tabs that they hang on are ever so slightly too long. My Galaxy drop targets worked fine until I replaced the targets. As soon as I did, the red star started dropping about 50% of the time.
It seems to me that bricking is related to target bank placement, as cottonm4 explained in such helpful detail. But targets dropping upon reset - this adjustment should clear up the problem.

I had considered slicing off the tip of that little lip on the targets with the Dremel tool, but thought better of it, since it would be hard to shave them off consistently, and have the targets line up at the same height.
Again, I suspect this problem may return if the set screws let go over time, but I just played 4 games in a row with flawless performance from the drop bank.

Hope this is helpful.

I had a similar problem with those switches when I used them on the new PinBot translucent ramp. Apparently they are VERY fussy, but if you her a good one they should be highly reliable. It’s a new concept and they are still working out the bugs, but as you have no doubt discovered, the guys running that show are very nice and want to make sure it’s all working well for their users. I much prefer the small profile of those switches under the high visibility plastic on PinBot, but have also had problems with the magnet physically not sticking to the ramp! Great concept, bugs still being worked out; we are all helping prove out the concept, I guess.

I can totally see how you’d have been around the bend trying to figure out what was going on with that lone drop target. Those sort of mystery gremlins are the WORST, they take up so much time! But I am really pleased that the solution I hit on worked for you (and that my description was clear enough to be followed.) I suspect that adjustment should be made on all drop banks from this era to eliminate the bad resets. I have the same problem on Galaxy, and am currently restoring 2 Lightning machines, so I’ll be checking that adjustment before reinstalling their drops. It’s really nice to have a definite sense of how to approach these troublesome banks going forward!

Thought I would post some progress pics…I am currently restoring not one but two Lightning machines, one a full blown soup-to-nuts restoration, the other (mine) just the playfield stuff (no cabinet work…yet…)
[edit: wow, I can’t figure out Pinside’s weirdness on photo order. I just tried twice and can’t get the photos in the correct sequence. Moving on…]

It’s been a pretty tough playfield restoration; my own copy of the game had been particularly badly neglected, and it’s time consuming to do touch ups that look good on a design that is this intricately detailed. I’ve been doing a little dance between using frisket masking and airbrush, designing and printing out water slide decals, and just doing hand work with a black Molotow paint pen. The final clear coat will be going on today, and I am relieved to be stepping off of this process. It’s been satisfying work, though.

Here are a couple of “before” pics:C0FC9ED5-B7DF-4A72-827A-4D4CA811B26D (resized).pngF4E7DFC8-4308-47FD-80CA-40C2CCE00FFD (resized).jpeg

The horseshoe shot was a 2-part repair; feather the airbrushing into the art, clear coat, then apply water slide decal to reestablish the black art:

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The insert key lines and lettering was a major task….I go into it in detail on the Vids Guide to playfield restoration thread, but here are some pics of the process - 3 layers of both white and clear water slides:

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The top of the upper playfield with Mr. God Guy got touched up in the same way as the horseshoe, though I neglected to get a photo after re-applying the green dots via water slide decal. Last night I spent a lot more hours that I thought I was going to, cutting out frisket mask so that the white background paint could be refreshed:

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I’ll be sure to post follow up pics once the final clear is done, and as the games get reassembled

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If the ball is barely making it the length of the playfield, your flippers are underpowered, unless your pitch is something truly crazy. My Stars is set up like every other machine I own - rear adjusters at maximum, front adjusters at minimum, for the most speed I can get. I would think the legs must be a significantly weird extra long size for the pitch to be an issue.

PAPA tournament pitch, if memory serves, was always 6.5 degrees. If you're anywhere in that neighborhood, you the flippers should be able to send the ball flying around pretty well. I will say, Stars has the least "punch" of any of my machines, so I do a lot more drop catch shooting than I would on my PinBot for example. I am told this is because the older transformers don't carry as much punch as the later ones.

Anyhow...I have never owned a pin that didn't benefit substantially from having new flippers.
I have found that Classic Stern flippers age poorly - often the threads where the coil stop connects to the base are stressed and they just strip out if you try to rebuild the flippers. So it's worth considering ponying up for all new assemblies - just remember that if you do that you also need to get new flipper bats, as the base plate style was improved and the original Stars flipper shafts are not long enough to be used.

Yep, I have added this nylon washers in the past - good thing to point out!

And by no means am I suggesting type 1 should be replaced in every instance; my Galaxy and Meteor both have rebuilt originals that have lots of power. I just would advise people to really examine the condition of the base plates and be sure that they can still be rebuilt. I had ordered rebuild kits for Lightning only to find that I couldn’t use them on 2 of the flippers because the coil stop threads were just too mangled!

I’m on the hunt for the ball trough assembly parts for F2K/Nine Ball. Most importantly the metal ball guide stuff. 7FF85746-4158-490E-B4D6-F7B2D86FD442 (resized).jpegAnybody have a line on these:

Personally, I can’t see the point of doing maintenance level work on flippers this old.
The flippers are *the* highest wear parts in the entire game. Given that these machines were build to only last a few years, and flippers are the first thing to go, AND the game has outlasted its intended lifespan by an order of magnitude, don’t throw some retreads on there. Replace the whole assembly.

There’s nothing at all wrong with just using a rebuild kit on these flippers, but I have found that the primary bracket assemblies often get completely ruined - the threads where the coil stop attached have just gotten too stressed from the impacts, and are stripped out, making a rebuild impossible.

If you’re buying new assemblies from Pinball Life, you’ll also need new flipper bats, as they only make type 2 flipper bases, not the type 1 used on Stars. (Original flipper shafts are too short for type 2.) But considering that your flipper bats are 40+ year old plastic, it’s a fine time to update them to something a bit fresher as well.

Seeing as you are already in the territory of replacing the coil anyway, why not treat your machine to some brand new flippers, which are clean, have new threading at the coil stops, fresh EOS switches, new coils, new coil sleeves, new bushings, and new bases. You’ll be so psyched to have flippers which really have proper power! Read Vid’s Guide to rebuilding flippers, too. You may have to adjust the EOS switch gap when you install them.

Doesn’t hurt to put in new cabinet switches while you’re at it. The best option that I know of is from Pinball Resource, but they may be available elsewhere.

Hey all -
I’m reassembling. A Lightning cabinet, and noticed that the transformer is wired for 115v.
It’s one of those things I’ve never paid attention to in the past, but I thought “hey, aren’t most household outlets 120v?”
Wanted to get some input from the group about that.

Lots of discussion about reproducing cabinets, so I figured I should chime in:

I’ve been working on a Lightning restoration, and while I had the cabinet stripped down for painting, I took the opportunity to measure out all the key components, and drew up the whole thing is SketchUp. The plan is to be able to send the file to my friend who operates a CNC shop - so anytime a classic Bally or Stern comes through the shop with a beat cabinet, I can just have him cut me a new set of panel parts.

I’m actually restoring my own Lightning playfield alongside the full restoration, but decided I would hold off on the cabinet, as I’d rather just build a nice new one which will be built stronger than the aging original than to put all that timer and energy into sanding and body filler. Personally, I just can’t justify the effort of preserving old cabinets that are basically failing structurally at this point if I can make a new one (not that every old cabinet is a goner, but the ones on my Galaxy, Meteor, and Stars are pretty wonky at this point.)

Somewhere (probably in this group) I heard that Lightning is a slightly higher cabinet construction due to the split level playfield. I haven’t taken the time out to compare its dimensions to one of the other Sterns in the shop, but presumably it would just be a matter of making a height adjustment and keeping Lightning as a separate file. An easy enough thing to change.

Anyway, I’m not looking to get into business building these cabinets, I just wanted to have a (relatively) easy and efficient way to build one when I need one, and I wanted to be able to decide for myself how to execute the corner joinery (on mine I will probably end up using locking miters, which will add a step as you can’t mill those using CNC. That’s a whole conversation unto itself.)
But, if anybody wants me to share the SketchUp file with them, I’d be happy to. This 3D model *HAS NOT BEEN TESTED YET*, so I don’t recommend anybody invest a ton of money or time into that unless they are pretty conversant with 3D modeling and can check my work over before committing. I fully expect the prototype to turn up issues with stuff I missed or things that need tweaking. Unfortunately there’s no way to really test it without fully assembling and seeing how/whether it all fits in the end.
All that said, it’s something I’ve been working on, and if you have a local maker space, you may be able to get the parts cut pretty inexpensively if you have a CNC-ready model to send them.

I'm finishing up a Lightning restoration (photos soon!) and am dialing things in, but the maddening thing is that I have no speech.
I checked the primary sound board and the jumper mod has been done, so that isn't the issue.
I replaced all the wiring harness pins. And I had the boards tested by my tech, and they were declared OK. Primary sound works, just no speech. Which is kind of a bummer! Ideas??

The machine is running a Weebly MPU, FWIW.

I took a heap of boards to my guy, and am *pretty sure* the speech board was among them.
Neat thing is, I am restoring my Lightning at the same time, and just ordered the repro board for it (my game is missing the VSU-100)
So, once that gets here I can test out the situation by swapping the boards and seeing what happens...

Hmm...I just got the new Glodstone speech board, and it works when I run its self-test, goes through all the callouts. But when I start a game I still get nothing.
Am I seriously gonna have to replace the sound board as well? Seems like overkill, like the answer is here somewhere. I can't see where it's likely to be connected incorrectly; the wiring really only goes one way. But whatever triggers the callouts is not happening.

Update: the game has a 2017 Weebly MPU board in it...I swapped in my own 2021 board and suddenly, the voices are working.
Dammit!!
But at least the issue is resolved!

...or *IS* it??

Now the speech works but I have no background pulse.

Time to put in an Alltek. I just so happen to have one in my Meteor.

Well how about that. *NOW* everything works - game sounds, background pulse, AND speech, while running the original speech board.

Good call! That was it.
Doesn't help me with the first board, but maybe barakandl can shed some light on that for me.

INTERESTED.
Are you doing just this short run, or will you do more later?

The new code is spectacular. My Galaxy was the loaner to Dick so that he could develop new code for it.
Next up: Lightning!

Got these 2 both up and running 100%

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Stars holds the somewhat unique distinction of being equally fun to play in both modes. I play them interchangeably.

Are you all using rattle cans for the whole project, including the primary background color?

I would really like use HVLP as much as possible, for the simple reason that can triggers give me carpal tunnel trouble. Even with the little handle triggers, I’ve tried them all. I get pain.

I’m in the middle of doing a pin can with auto base coat and I hate it. Never again if I can find a better option.

No less an authority than Vid1900 tells me he is using latex paints for his pin can work. Says it lays out well, dries fast, no issues with orange peel or stencils pulling up the paint. Topcoats with either 2PAC for hi gloss or varathane for flat.
Makes me want to start using latex and never look back.

Anyhow, curious to hear about what’s working for people.

I guess Rustoleum is cheaper to purchase than auto paint (~$55-$75/quart at The Coating Store), but that seems like a fair amount of effort to put in just the same. Thinning oil base with acetone and spraying HVLP I’m thinking you’d wanna be set up with a good exhaust booth just the same as with auto paint; the oil base isn’t as high VOC as auto but you still want to get rid of the overspray and don’t want to be breathing it.

No knock on Chris, he’s obviously got a thorough background in this stuff and I’m sure his advice is grounded in that knowledge.

Im a little frustrated at not having been able to hit on what feels like the “sweet spot” for how to approach cabinet repaints. Lots of options and a good case to be made for all of them, it seems.

As an aside, I personally am not crazy about the Oramask product for stenciling. Again, no knock on Jeff, his stencils make a lot of projects possible and his product is spot-on. But there is always a risk of some degree of rough edges that simply would not be there in a non-adhesive stencil like oil board. But it’s hard to justify the labor to reinvent the wheel when a solid option exists that is available at the click of a mouse.

I used 10 mil non-adhesive vinyl with a paper backing to make stencils on a plotter once, but that product didn’t really lay flat enough; had to use a lot of double stick tape to hold it to the surface. I’m cool with under spray but it was too much.

File under: middle aged white guy complains about his not-actual-problems…

Are these the sockets you all are referring to?
The other 555 sockets (with metal legs) sit the bulb too high for classic pop bodies; are these a better fit, or are you using flat-topped bulbs in this location?

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I hadn’t known about these. Obviously an improvement over the project options; will be switching over from now on!

If more people start playing Meteor and Galaxy with the Dick Hamill code, they might take a greater interest in those games. I have them and Stars in the lineup and love them all; I play Galaxy and Meteor on the new code exclusively.

But it is true that the low production numbers are something to consider. I *love* Star Gazer based on the one time I got to play one, but with pricing being what it is these days, the only way I will own one is if I scratch build it. I’ve already decided to go scratch built for Nine Ball - these old machines just aren’t *worth* paying $5k-$7k just to get a hold of one that then needs to be restored. It’s a pity that the only model for reissuing an early solid state classic is that absurdly overpriced Bally Fathom a couple years back. A Classic Stern reissue line would be fantastic, but then of course it would be all the issues of having enough pre-orders to make it worth the effort, etc.

(Arrows presumably coming my way for dissing the Bally Fathom reissue price point. I have counter-arguments prepared, lol.)

I have all of these things, plus two sets of 3-bank drops, light/score panel wiring harness, cabinet harness, apron, shooter cover, and the oddball outhole/ball trough setup. Been collecting parts for over a year. Will need to figure out something for the playfield harness, but many people have solved that in different ways so I’m not
letting that discourage me.

Next phase is building new cabinets, which I want to start doing on most of the classic sterns I see. (All of my cabinets are real dogs.) I have a friend who works for a CNC company and his shop is at-home. Just waiting for him to get the newly upgraded machine installed.

That would be immensely valuable! And it would be really very cool to understand that better and have the option of making my own harness. I still carry a torch for the idea of doing a Repo Man homebrew pin at some point...

Oh I wouldn’t destroy the old cabs, don’t worry.

My Galaxy cab has a big row of drywall screws holding it together in the back corner. Meteor is pretty shaky as well. For me, having the option of building new feels more attractive; I have a background in cabinetry so building fresh appeals to me. But the main thing is that I end up putting a lot of hours into restoring this old ones for people who are hiring me for restoration work, and I find myself thinking the labor would be fewer hours for a better result if o could easily cut and assemble a new box.

That said, I’ve definitely put in hours refurbishing old cabinets as well. Any cabinets I retire I would put in Pinside marketplace for folks who want them!

I used a *flat* clear on my latest cabinet repaint, and I was very happy with the look.
Where gloss clear accentuates any surface imperfection and the paint edges, the flat clear pushes all of them back. The result is a very clean looking overall appearance, very much in keeping with the older factory appearance - but you get the benefit of a topcoat protecting the paint.

Not sure how well it translates to photos, but:

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It’s a 2PAC product with “flatting” material in it. (Needs to be stirred a bunch before use.)

I sprayed it with the HVLP gun; as the clear dries it goes from looking “wet” to flatting out. You can re-spray a second coat pretty soon after the first.

If you put it next to a cabinet with gloss clear, you’d see that the black looks noticeably deeper on the gloss finished cabinet, but on its own or in a lineup with other classic machines it really does look “correct.” I used gloss for the initial coat, and it almost seemed a shame to “knock it back”, but again, the gloss really accentuated the surface imperfections (because I only spent a day and a half filling and sanding, rather than a week, lol.)
The flat clear just *made* the finish.

I got the clear from The Coating Store; there’s a $10 up charge for the flat clear but it was worth it.

You mean the backbox illumination panel? Yes please.

SG is such a deservedly sought after game. I only played one once, and it absolutely delighted me. You’re making me want to do a scratch build now! Dammit!!

OMG accurate

Holy shit, that is amazing.

Now I want to use that on any repro pin cabinet I make!!

Wasn’t that a Spinal Tap song?

I was running this down in my mind while tracking down a switch issue on a recently restored machine (turned out I had a couple wire positions switched in a molex connector I had added, duh.)
Anyhow, it was the first time the idea of a row or column kind of clicked in my head, or at least started to. So, the electrical current basically pulses down the rows and columns and just terminated at the last switch, does not return, yes? I think I had always had the incorrect impression that the pulses went down and back, like a loop. But of course nobody would describe that as a row or a column!

I have sprayed spinners with Rustoleum to good effect.

I don’t know about “California blend”, sounds like a vintner term, lol.
The Rustoleum I can get at the hardware store in Massachusetts works well.

But, as with all things, you can’t use shortcuts. I get rid of the original paint using a wire wheel (in the future I’ll sand blast.) Then, tape off the arms of the spinner so they stay paint-free.
Then prime. Allow to cure for recommended time on the can. Then paint, and allow it to cure as well. Next, either airbrush with a stencil, or apply a waterslide decal. Once that’s fully dry, topcoat with rattle can clear.

One could use auto paints - I do on cabinet repainting, for the speed - but they are awfully noxious and it feels like overkill to me. Quick we and easier to grab a can and step out back for a few minutes at a time than to have to mix paint and fire up the spray booth.

That’s all on the assumption that the spray can product I can get is the same as or comparable to what’s available to you, of course. This seems to work pretty well though.

I am personally arranging for Lightning to be delivered to Dick Hamill this weekend so that he can start creating new code for it.
If you’ve seen how he completely transformed Galaxy from the generally undesirable, lower-tier game it was considered to be, into one of the greatest players in the classic stern lineup, you might take that into consideration.

That said, I restored 2 Lightnings and it took a lot of heroic effort to pull off. They play great now but it was a major production, and I had to get custom insert reproductions made for those big blue arrows. It really needs to be cleared in order to play fast like it is supposed to. Playfield is pretty tight. I can see where opinions split in Lightning, but I wouldn’t write it off.

I’m not an apologist for anyone in the pinball biz; that said I guess I’ve just been lucky that the 2 Mirco playfields I have gotten (Whitewater and Spirit) arrived very nicely packaged and without flaws. Dimpling was precise/accurate. Topcoat was great. I’ve seen numerous CPRs that had really thin clearcoat layers, to the point that I scuffed and re-cleared them. And CPR’s dimpling is faint to nonexistent, which is a real problem on complex playfields with a lot of ramps, etc.

Cool that CPR is going that extra mile to fix errors from the original production run, surely. Good on them. But really, I try to bear in mind that 10 years ago, there were very few repro playfields and parts weren’t so available as they are now either. Again, I may just be lucky that my a Mirco experiences have been positive.

As for playfields arriving not flat, that’s a bummer, but I can tell you from experience that the 40 year old NOS Warlok playfield that I installed 2 years ago was badly warped, but once it had all of the wiring, coil brackets and assemblies and everything else installed, the weight of all that and a bit of pressure to seat the brackets into the lockdown receiver readily coerced the playfield into laying flat. After a couple of weeks, it had basically gotten retrained and didn’t even spring back much once the lockdown bar and glass were off. Warped plywood really doesn’t take direction without being clamped into position; in my experience the best way to do that is to put the playfield together and get it into the machine.

I restored a pair of Lightning pins this past year, just got around to doing a brief rundown of the process, if folks are interested:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-tale-of-two-lightnings

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I disassemble what I can…if memory serves, the two main parts are separable, but the pivot arm is riveted. A case could be made for separating that as well but I’m not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

Sandblasting is excellent here if you have access. Otherwise use some elbow grease and get in there with wire wheels and scotch brute pads to get rid of as much rust as you can, or as mentioned above, give it an evapo-rust bath overnight.
Rust oleum makes a primer which claims to stabilize rust, so that may be good if you can’t get at everything. Mostly I use etching primer though. Then spray the metallic paint of your choice. I like the slight sparkly rim paints, but have used just straight silver paint as well, it seems pretty arbitrary. Hell, paint it pink if that makes you happy, lol. Some paints don’t call for a topcoat, but I like to use ones that do, because in my mind having that extra clear layer seems like good protection. Once it’s cured those paints are pretty robust.

I haven’t tried using auto paints on these parts but I might give it a shot, simply because those are so fast drying and you can move through the whole process really quickly.

A 4” length of drain pipe works well for this too - also nice for treating rusty legs!

Aha! Memory does *not* serve!

I just refinished a Gottlieb Spirit lockdown bar, I think with those it’s the other way around.

Finally carved out some days to do my Meteor playfield swap. I’ve been holding this thing close to a year now. There’s nothing like a new playfield; things are just really nice and *tight*, very lively.

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Yeah, the laser printing is not as nice as screen printing, but I’ve done enough playfield restorations to know that if you can get a decent reproduction it’s hard to justify the labor of reclaiming an old playfield. People will disagree, that’s fine, for me it’s nice to just start with a clean slate.

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I used Yoppsicles to replace the controlled lamps. Boy do I love these. If David made GI replacements of some kind, I’d be over the moon, honestly.

I had put off fixing a bunch of crusty problems inside the cabinet, so it was time to address those as well. Somebody had snipped all the wires from the transformer and rectifier board and done a very ugly job soldering them back…here’s me working through the lot of them. They all got snipped again, and soldered properly with heat shrink tubing after.

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I was gonna just put new connector pins on the existing rectifier board, but I had this Xpin around that I was going to put in my Lightning, and here I was up to my elbows anyway…so I decided to just start fresh.

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This game had been stored somewhere…damp. Every metal part has that chalky white dusty surface. I can’t let that stuff go, I had to clean those parts up. I have the grinding/buffing wheels a workout cutting through all that gross stuff.

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The coin door will wait until I get my sand blasting booth set up. But this photo represents a fair amount of time and god help me, it is a beautiful sight. In time I will restore and do a good paint job on the cabinet, but this is very improved for the time being:

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Backside playfield fully populated except for the drops. Happily for me, I had already disassembled them and gotten them cleaned up and dialed in nicely last year, so they didn’t really need anything.

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Playfield ready!

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After some fiddling with flippers, star rollovers, etc, she’s up and running beautifully! The action is fast and lively, it plays like a NIB machine.

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Holy crap, that’s amazing ⚡️ MATH POWER ⚡️
Awesome tip!

It’s so funny, I’d heard that was an issue and was all worried about it, but they fixed it on the run I got. I still double checked and ended up moving not just a bit even further to the left in order to get it just so. I’m shocked they didn’t fix the art registration to re-center it, but alas. I’m not one to complain, I can remember a time when repro playfields weren’t a thing. It’s hard to get this stuff perfect.

I was very surprised by the color mismatch between the playfield and the plastics. I’d have thought that with laser printing, they’re using the same process and the same CMYK values, so why the mismatch?
It doesn’t bother me that much but it is a head scratcher to my perfectionist brain…

Yeah my meteor and stars both are *slightly* off center but nowhere near as much as the repro.
Again, when you’re done with the swap and are just playing it really isn’t that important, just a little weird looking if you’re staring at the art instead of playing the game, lol.

But, agreed, it pays to be very mindful and check things before drilling your holes.

Also good to pay attention to tear outs or places where the wood threaded posts and screws have loosened on the original. Some of the screws are damn near right on top of each other where the drop banks mount and the posts are situated. I moved the posts back an extra 1/8” to get them away from the mounting screws. Doesn’t affect the gameplay.
Also not a bad idea to use through-bolting on some extra spots where the bands keep posts under tension. Over time the wood fibers can get fatigued, most pin owners have come upon those places where the hole I’d just stripped out and can’t hold a screw anymore.
Probably not necessary to go with through bolts or t-nuts right off the bat if it wasn’t a problem on the original playfield, but it doesn’t hurt, either. I’m the sort of person who will forever be thinking about it if I *don’t* make those upgrades, but I’m also OCD when it comes to this stuff. Years of working in absurd high end carpentry and cabinetry have made me somewhat deranged

It would be amazing if some journalist could write the definitive history of pinball/coin op. (And live to collect proceeds from their book, lol.)
Really interesting reading your comments, I’ve only had the gayest idea about how all this stuff went down. The whole picture maybe will never be truly known but it is a weird and interesting story from what I gather.

I just did a long-delayed playfield swap on my Stars, and am really in love with the results.

As with any playfield swap, I:
- cleaned the wiring harness
- fully disassembled the drop target banks, cleaned all parts, waxed the metal, replaced coil stops, and in this case replaced the drops with Swinks targets. These things are *great.*
- Installed Yoppsicle lamps for all controlled lights.
- new GI sockets
- Rebuilt the slingshots
- Rebuilt the pop bumper
- cleaned all coil brackets and waxed against future corrosion
- cleaned all trough metal guides and waxed.

I was always puzzled as to why Stars’ flippers felt weak compared to my Meteor and Stars, even after rebuilding them. Turns out the coil value was different and I just hadn’t been paying close enough attention.
I replaced the stock coils - J25-500/34-5050 - with the more common coils, J25-500/34/4500. The difference was massive. The flippers finally feel correct, not like they’re struggling to propel the ball. Everything is snappy and responsive.

I’ve had this Beehive playfield hanging on the wall for close to 2 years, so it was great to finally get it in the machine and do all the deep work I’d been wanting to to make it play its best.

In order to offend the purists maximally, I’ve also got Dick Hamill’s Stars 2021 code running. I love being able to play the game in two completely different modes. Honestly I still play Stars primarily in Classic mode, but being able to boot up a completely different rule set and soundscape is mighty cool.

Very nice work by both Mike Lund at Beehive Pinball and @dickhamill!
Next will be to restore the cabinet and get this thing minty fresh. But for now, it plays beautifully, and that’s the most important thing.

Beehive Stars 2.0:

Beehive Stars 2.0 w/2021 Rule Set:

I always set my machines as steep as they’ll go. I’ve been known to grab a chunk of 1” plywood and put it under the back legs if I’m still not satisfied at the speed.

The Swinks drop targets are so superior to the commonly available ones, it cannot be over stated.

Worth. Every. Penny.

I’ve been meaning to post these pics for a while now…I had Cliffy make protectors for the kickout holes on Lightning.
He made a batch, so if you want a set, just drop him a line!

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I’m gonna put in an order soon for a set for my Lightning, which bricks somethin’ awful. That could make for an interesting test case.

I made my decals in AI, happy to send you the files if you want.
Lightning bolts should be easy to render as well…

Are you prepping for the possibility of repro playfields? Planning to make a series of decals?
I’ve drafted up big chunks of playfield art in the past but never to redo an entire playfield.
Intrigued!

Terry used to beat people until they were unconscious at Expo?! Was it, like, a cage match type of thing??

I used to carry a crescent wrench with me to the local bars or bowling alleys that had pins, to “fix” the ones that were set up flat as a pancake
Also been known back in the day to stick a 2x4 under the legs if the levelers were too short in back

Hellz yeah, Trident 2020 is killer!
Ask Dick about the version with the Multiball update. You have to add a WPC style ball trough but holy cow, it’s cool!

I’ve always just gone straight for the WMS brackets; I like that the design “straddles” the corner and at least in theory gets the stress away from the joint. Only problem I have had is on a couple of old cabinets the corner blocks are big enough that the brackets don’t sit flush against the cabinet side/front walls. On those I have made up the gap with plastic Handi-Shims.

Handi-Shim Heavy Duty Reusable Plastic Construction Shims for Spacing, Leveling, Plumbing and More - 40 Piece Assorted Pack (4 sizes) https://a.co/d/6AZlXJf

Curious, what about them do you find easier? IMO the Molex pins are easier to crimp than the Trifurcons (marginally.) Seems a person is no less likely to err using one system vs. the other.

Not trying to challenge your choice, people should use whatever works for them. I'm a Molex guy but only because it's what I know and am accustomed to using.

That’s pretty solid reasoning.

I haven’t had trouble with Molex crimping (though I have had failed crimps that ended up with me scrapping the contact and starting over.) You’re definitely correct about the trouble disconnecting them, and the potential to screw up when you have larger connectors like 9-blocks. (I often add Molex connectors to drop target banks; are Z-connectors kind of bulky in these configurations, since they’re laid out in a straight line?)

I also like the idea that I can just maintain a supply of Trifurcon pins rather than having to keep ordering M and F contacts. Less to keep track of or suddenly realize I’m running out of. I’m not worried over a “factory appearance” beyond making sure things look clean and professional, so it’s apples to apples in terms of that. Seems like Zs could be worth switching over to when I start to run low on Molex.

Holy smokes, that's a great find! Instantly added to the cart. Thanks for sharing.

I’m totally converted to using auto paints at this point. The low build and speed can’t be beat. Nice work on Galaxy, I didn’t know those stencils were available either!

I tried a few different clears for cabinet topcoat and found that the semigloss sold by The Coating Store is “just right.” Glossy clear looks wrong to me, and it highlights every surface imperfection. Flat clear actually looks very good, and *hides* imperfections nicely, but can look a little dull (and it desaturates the paint color some.) The semi gloss has a very nice eggshell finish which looks perfect to me, hides imperfections but also feels nice to the touch. Not saying you need to do that on your project, but I haven’t heard others discuss that as an option. For me, when I applied it to a cabinet I was like “OK *that* is what I’ve been after!”

This is 100% correct. I had to do this on a playfield a couple of years ago. Only thing I would do differently would be to start from the back and then go to the front - so that when you finish the hole, if the drill punches through unexpectedly you’re going through the back side. Unlikely, but obviously you want to be conscientious.

A drill guide seems like overkill to me; you’re only going through 1/2”, and really only ~1/4” (from each side.) As long as your initial 1/16” hole is straight through (using a guide block is spot on), the Forstner bit will be easy to control.

It’s also a very good idea to lightly break the edges of the clear with fine sandpaper to ease them back from the edge of the hole and keep the clear from chipping later on.

I meant drill your small hole through from the front side, begin with your forstner but from the *back* side, then finish from the front. If that makes it any clearer? Probably we were on the same page in this already.

As for the drill guide, I meant I wouldn’t go buying a special rig to stick your drill in. If the OP has a drill press, simply using it ti drill through a scrap piece of 3/4” material would suffice to use as a guide block. But of course you’d want to place the drill tip very specifically before positioning your guide block.

Ultimately people have to do whatever is comfortable for them. I’ve been building cabinets for the disgustingly rich for 15 years, so maybe have a bit less anxiety about stuff like this than some other folks, which is understandable.

Wow, man, the Lighting hate is unwarranted.

It’s a weird time capsule of a machine with a wacky theme and pretty cool artwork. Add to that the unusual playfield layout which has more personality than a lot of other games of the era, *plus* the fact that Dick is writing code for it as we speak…Lightning is due for a Renaissance. Quicksilver is cool and all, but is it maybe not just a wee bit over-hyped at this point?? When Lightning is available for under $2k and QS can’t be had for less than like $8K, you have to ask, is it really $6K more fun to play? *REALLY*?

Granted, they probably had orders to make a split level playfield to compete with Black Knight and the game seems rushed into production compared to BK. It’s not on the level of your Nine Balls or Stargazers. But the idea that people are just parting them out seems kind of awful to me.

It’s not a question. New code is happening.

Agreed wholeheartedly.
This is the reason I am scratch building a Nine Ball rather than buying one for $5-6K. Most old Sterns are in dire need of major restoration; if I’m basically buying a project game for that money, I’d rather just build it with a fresh playfield, boards, and displays and have it be basically new. I actually think it would be pretty cool if they started selling unassembled kits at this point, save for the fact that you can’t get the specialized parts easily.

I’m grossed out by the insane spending that’s required just to get into what used to be a hobby at even the most basic entry level. And frustrated that the pricing is completely disconnected from anything that feels like value to me. I’ve basically given up on the idea of buying any more machines unless some really reasonable deal comes along on a project game.

All that said, I am very curious to see how the Hamill code changes Lightning; Galaxy was pretty dull before, but with the new code, it’s the game people want to play when they come over to my place now.
I’m here for the underdog games, lol. Proud to say every one of my machines was purchased for under $2k!

Man, that’s bonkers. I bought mine two years ago for maybe $1400 or so. Playfield was in dire need but it had a full set of LED displays and a full compliment of Alltek boards, so I figured that was some substantial value right there. I bought it, Galaxy, and Stars all within a couple months because I was frankly scared of where the market was headed (i.e., being just plain priced out of it.) Guess I’m glad I picked them up when I did. Also paid too much for a Meteor later that year which turned out to need way more work than I thought (ended up doing a playfield swap, among much else.)

I’ve only played Nine Ball a couple of times but it turned into a sort of white whale for me once I saw how damn much money people were getting for them. Maybe I’ll hate it, lol. But I can at least sell it and make back most of the money I put in, I guess. It would be nice to feel like the stakes were lower. My first pin was $700 and at that time trading games was actually a feasible way to rotate your collection. Heavy sigh.

New code on Galaxy is absolutely amazing.
I have Stars as well and probably play it about 60/40 in favor of the original code. That to me is really the sweet spot, a game which is fun to play in its original version but which can also be enjoyed in a completely different way. Kinda interested to see what Dick does with Nine Ball once I get it built!

It’s another game that Dick revolutionized with new code. But you have to add a new style ball trough and auto launch mech for the Multiball modes! It’s completely awesome with those changes.

BTW, I *love* the idea of re-theming the Beatles back to Seawitch 2.0
I love the Beatles a lot but the idea of a whole game which is only about the early part of their career seems like a huge missed opportunity…plus I’m just sick to death of licensed themes. It’s one reason I love TNA so much!

I have all my Hamill code games running with an on/off switch so that I can easily go back and forth. I use this feature on Stars a *lot.* On Galaxy it’s to show people how radical the difference is. I don’t really play Meteor on old code because all the original rules are still there, and I don’t really miss the droning sounds, lol.

100% agree. I was ready to have a Serious Conversation with my wife about it, but then I heard the price was going WAAAAY up and said screw it. It’s just not worth spending so much more than I can even justify to myself.

Remember when Alice Cooper came out and it was $6500?

2 cents on Stars…it is the only pinball machine that I have played literally every day since buying it 2 years ago. Back when Mystic Pinball was still around, I had been a Williams/Sys11 snob. Stars was my gateway to appreciating older machines and the sublime perfection of pinball from an earlier era. Not a ramp to be found and yet I was totally hooked!

It also has *the* most perfect risk-reward strategy built into its rules of any game I have played. It’s perfect if you’re playing alone, and perfect if you’re playing competitively. It’s also the game that finally got me to start nudgeing properly. You can’t phone it in, you have to be 100% focused. Rollover passes don’t work, post passes don’t work, drop catches are a must. There are always good options from both flippers. The game is the platonic ideal of the pinball machine. A master’s class under glass.

A new or restored playfield, rebuilt flippers and a set of Swinks drop targets are essential to really enjoy it fully. It isn’t quite as lively as Meteor and beyond, but it forces you to really work the machine. Plus with only the chimes, you can play rock and roll music the whole time. Stars is my absolute desert island pin.

I think you just became my personal hero.

I’ve only played Trident at Dick’s house, running new code and it was plenty challenging, super fun.