(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 16 days ago by Enochsmoken
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Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 2,687 posts in this topic. You are on page 41 of 54.
#2001 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The first problem is that the old coils are shorter than the modern standard, AND they are 28v instead of 50v.
So we need a SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil. Often used in games like Black Knight*, the coil is full size, 28v and has plenty of power. Exactly what we need.
You also need a base plate, flipper bushing and a high voltage EOS switch (don't reuse the old one that lacks the "helper" spring leaf).
Terry at PL will actually make the entire assembly for you for only $36:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
Here are the options to choose:

I know right now many of you are saying "Thirty Six Dollars??? To rebuild my flipper?", but look at it this way:
1. You are getting a completely new everything. Nothing to polish or clean.
2. You are getting that "snappy" Fliptronic feel - the best flipper design ever made.
3. Rebuild kits in the future will only be $21 (instead of $44 for the old style Williams one).
4. You can sell your old mechs and coil and get a few bucks back towards your new stuff.
5. You can use modern flipper bats, so you get all the cool colors, transparent, illuminated......
* Firepower II, LaserCue and Starlight were the first games to switch to 50v flippers.

Can I also do this to my Gottlieb 1971 Playball EM? I've read most or all of this thread and couldn't find (or missed) a conclusive answer about doing the WPC upgrade to EMs. I'd rather drive 15 minutes to Pinball Life than order the correct/crappy parts from PBR.

#2002 3 years ago

Could you or someone else post how to rebuild classic Stern flipper mechs?

#2003 3 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

Can I also do this to my Gottlieb 1971 Playball EM? I've read most or all of this thread and couldn't find (or missed) a conclusive answer about doing the WPC upgrade to EMs. I'd rather drive 15 minutes to Pinball Life than order the correct/crappy parts from PBR.

Generally, gotts are pretty solid as designed.

You would have to do some research before leaping into it....

#2004 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Could you or someone else post how to rebuild classic Stern flipper mechs?

Pretty much the same as the classic Bally.

You can get a kit from PBR

2 weeks later
#2005 3 years ago

I'm rebuilding my first set of flippers. I am finding that the linkage head is super tight and almost impossible to rotate. What's the best way to loosen up the hole? I bought the kit from Marco

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#2006 3 years ago
Quoted from wolv3:

I'm rebuilding my first set of flippers. I am finding that the linkage head is super tight and almost impossible to rotate. What's the best way to loosen up the hole? I bought the kit from Marco

https://www.harborfreight.com/t-handle-reamer-66936.html $2.99

image_16077 (resized).jpg

#2007 3 years ago

I just drilled the hole a big bigger

#2008 3 years ago

When I open up that hole do I want to make just enough clearance so it moves freely? I tried using the original piece but it has too much play and is not showing the flippers to dead bounce.

#2009 3 years ago
Quoted from wolv3:

When I open up that hole do I want to make just enough clearance so it moves freely? I tried using the original piece but it has too much play and is not showing the flippers to dead bounce.

It should have no play, and move freely.

#2011 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It should have no play, and move freely.

Thanks for the feedback!

1 week later
#2012 3 years ago

Any thoughts, Vid? Want to order for TAF and T2...

#2014 3 years ago

Right, so T2 is the same process as a System 11, even though it’s a tweener?

#2015 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Now when the flipper is energized (the plunger all the way into the coil), we need the EOS Switch to open or the coil will overheat.
Press the plunger down all the way till it stops with your finger, and make sure the switch gap opens to EXACTLY 1/8" (3.2 mm). Not more, not less.

I recently did a flipper re-build on an old EM. Started playing it and the flippers seemed weak. Could visibly see a little hesitation mid stroke of the flipper bat.

I took a second look at the EOS switches. I could see that the switches were opening about mid-stroke, causing the loss of power and hesitation as the coils switched to low voltage.

So I adjusted the leafs to keep the flipper bats at high voltage as long as possible for maximum power. This obviously means the EOS gap would be smaller than 1/8”.

So that leaves me wondering....

Why 1/8”? What is so magic about that setting? What if the gap is something like 1/16”? As long as the contacts are separated at EOS (to shift to low voltage), does it matter?

Thanks in advance for any wisdom.

#2016 3 years ago

If they separate too far they're opening too early and you lose power. I'm guessing if they separate too little you'll get more arcing and therefore more pitting of the contacts. 1/8" is a compromise between the two.

#2017 3 years ago

Think of a Jacob's ladder that you built as a kid.

There was a magic sweet spot that made the whole thing work.

If the electrodes were too close, the arc would just sit there and not move up.

If the electrodes were too far apart, the arc could not jump the gap.

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#2018 3 years ago

does anyone have a POST FASTENER #8 X 1-1/2" WS 6-32 TOP its my last piece i need to Finish my South park pinball machine as it broke installing my cliffy set right at the cartman hole

#2019 3 years ago
Quoted from radfordian3505:

does anyone have a POST FASTENER #8 X 1-1/2" WS 6-32 TOP its my last piece i need to Finish my South park pinball machine as it broke installing my cliffy set right at the cartman hole

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2079

#2020 3 years ago

I finished rebuilding the flippers on my Whirlwind (upgrading to the "Fliptronics" version), and everything worked well.

Had people over this past Friday to play pins and the left flipper crapped out - I could hear the coil humming when the flipper button was pushed but no movement. Followed this guide, jumpered the EOS switch and the flipper kicked.

The problem turned out to be the new switch. After burnishing, everything was back to normal. Thank's Vid!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/9#postbox

#2021 3 years ago

Good morning experts, on my Atlantis, I got a little carried away and did not take enough pictures to help me re-wire my flipper re-build.
I scanned this topic and could not readily locate correct wiring of cap, switch and flipper lugs. I've marked up one of the helpful images posted here before with the type of assistance I am in need of. Can I get some help with the correct connections for this flipper type?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oops-bally-atlantis-flipper-pics-needed

Thanks in advance!!

flipper (resized).JPG

#2022 3 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Good morning experts, on my Atlantis, I got a little carried away and did not take enough pictures to help me re-wire my flipper re-build.
I scanned this topic and could not readily locate correct wiring of cap, switch and flipper lugs. I've marked up one of the helpful images posted here before with the type of assistance I am in need of. Can I get some help with the correct connections for this flipper type?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oops-bally-atlantis-flipper-pics-needed
Thanks in advance!!

Each leg of the Cap goes to one switch contact:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers#post-284671

Figure #9 tells you the wiring:

atlantis (resized).jpg

#2023 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Each leg of the Cap goes to one switch contact:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers#post-284671
Figure #9 tells you the wiring:

How do you feel about adding an capacitor to early Bally solid states? They don't seem to have one from factory, and I know some restoration folks add them.

#2024 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Each leg of the Cap goes to one switch contact

I know caps are not polarized, thus the only connections critical are to the coil itself, i.e. solid color wires & trace color wires?

#2025 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

How do you feel about adding an capacitor to early Bally solid states? They don't seem to have one from factory, and I know some restoration folks add them.

The first game I ever saw them on (and not all of them, mind you) was Space Shuttle, although a few Sorcerers had them too.

They were big black caps, screwed to the playfield.

So some early SS indeed had them.

#2026 3 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

I know caps are not polarized, thus the only connections critical are to the coil itself, i.e. solid color wires & trace color wires?

This might help you visualize the 2 connections:

atlan-flip (resized).jpg

#2027 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The first game I ever saw them on (and not all of them, mind you) was Space Shuttle, although a few Sorcerers had them too.
They were big black caps, screwed to the playfield.
So some early SS indeed had them.

It should technically be better on all games with DC flippers, shouldn't it?

#2028 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It should technically be better on all games with DC flippers, shouldn't it?

I'm on my phone so I can't find it, but there was a RGP thread that explained how the higher the voltage of the coils, the more the capacitor mattered (with actual math).

#2029 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm on my phone so I can't find it, but there was a RGP thread that explained how the higher the voltage of the coils, the more the capacitor mattered (with actual math).

More better!

#2030 3 years ago

Hey vid1900 so I did the rebuild on my Williams flash but now when I play and hit the 2 flipper buttons at the same time my pin goes into attract mode. Any ideas?

#2031 3 years ago

Go to switch test, hit both flippers at the same time

1 week later
#2032 3 years ago
Quoted from ryan1234:

Vid-
We could really use a Alvin G. flipper rebuild section!!!!!

Quoted from vid1900:

Next time I work on an Ali G, I'll shoot some pics.

Did you end up making an Alvin G & Co guide? I have one that I will need to rebuild so with some guidance on the best parts to make replacements with, I could take some pictures?

#2033 3 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Did you end up making an Alvin G & Co guide? I have one that I will need to rebuild so with some guidance on the best parts to make replacements with, I could take some pictures?

I've been working overseas, so I have not had time to do any new guides.

If you send me the pics, I can edit them.

#2034 3 years ago

Ok here’s one for you,
Just started on my Williams fire project and bang the flippers are like what
Please see photos I now know this machine came from Italy and someone has converted the flippers to (digital?) micro switches on buttons a board and this strange wiring
Please see eos switches do I still need them
Please help I am totally lost
When I picked it up it worked but I can’t remember about the flippers has been in storage and mpu board is out

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#2035 3 years ago
Quoted from roboclan:

Ok here’s one for you,
Just started on my Williams fire project and bang the flippers are like what
Please see photos I now know this machine came from Italy and someone has converted the flippers to (digital?) micro switches on buttons a board and this strange wiring
Please see eos switches do I still need them
Please help I am totally lost
When I picked it up it worked but I can’t remember about the flippers has been in storage and mpu board is out

I've not see that board other than in pictures from other Italian re-imports.

What are the date codes on the semiconductors?

An installation manual would be a godsend right now.

#2036 3 years ago

Vid
Question. I am working on a Barracora and I did the left side with a flipper rebuild using the orginal series coil. I added the Cap to the EOS, all the while leaving the right flipper original. I fired up the game and both flippers work fine. I knew that I did the rebuild correctly, So I started on the right side. Again I kept the original coil and added the cap.

Now when I fire up the game the left flipper works and as soon as I press the right flipper I get a flicker of the GI and no flipper response. Activate the right flipper again and no response and then the left has no response. It then blows the fuse. Game works fine other than that right flipper.

I know I have them wired correctly and I checked my photos again. Could it be the Caps? I am not thinking that it could be, but I am not sure.
Advise?

#2037 3 years ago

Replace the coil diode,it sounds like it's toast

#2038 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Replace the coil diode,it sounds like it's toast

Thanks Will do that. Guess I should have metered it. MY BAD
Mike

2 weeks later
#2039 3 years ago

First, excuse my bad english and my lack of the right vocabulary. English is not my native tounge. While reading this thread I don’t understand everything. I hope my question is in the right place in the forum.
I have a Stern Ripleys. When I bought it the plunger and bushings where replaced with new ones. The coil, eos and coilstop was not. The coilstop have one screw that is wrong. Instead of fitting in the threads in the bracket (?) it is attached from both sides. Screw and whatever it’s called on the other side that goes on the screw (see, I don’t have the vocabulary. Isn’t swedish people the cutest...). I have now replaced the coil, eos and coilstop also. My soldering skills are rusty since 30 some years, once I was the king of soldering, now my hands shake and I havn’t seen a solder float out nice in many years. It’s not part of what I normally do. I teach kids...
However, there is a outshooter on Ripleys, much like the chair on Addams. When the ball comes out of that hole and hits the flipper while I’m holding up the flipper bounces and engages. It flipps the the ball away. When I try to tighten the eos gap the flipper goes weak instead and when the ball hits it it... lack of vocabulary... slowly goes down (?) with the ball on it. It sinks...
I guess my eos is poorly andjusted but I have spent hours with this and can’t figure it out. It’s in my dreams... I want a strong flipper that holds up when the ball hits it.
Please help me.

1 week later
#2040 3 years ago
Quoted from r0ddan:

First, excuse my bad english and my lack of the right vocabulary. English is not my native tounge. While reading this thread I don’t understand everything. I hope my question is in the right place in the forum.
I have a Stern Ripleys. When I bought it the plunger and bushings where replaced with new ones. The coil, eos and coilstop was not. The coilstop have one screw that is wrong. Instead of fitting in the threads in the bracket (?) it is attached from both sides. Screw and whatever it’s called on the other side that goes on the screw (see, I don’t have the vocabulary. Isn’t swedish people the cutest...). I have now replaced the coil, eos and coilstop also. My soldering skills are rusty since 30 some years, once I was the king of soldering, now my hands shake and I havn’t seen a solder float out nice in many years. It’s not part of what I normally do. I teach kids...
However, there is a outshooter on Ripleys, much like the chair on Addams. When the ball comes out of that hole and hits the flipper while I’m holding up the flipper bounces and engages. It flipps the the ball away. When I try to tighten the eos gap the flipper goes weak instead and when the ball hits it it... lack of vocabulary... slowly goes down (?) with the ball on it. It sinks...
I guess my eos is poorly andjusted but I have spent hours with this and can’t figure it out. It’s in my dreams... I want a strong flipper that holds up when the ball hits it.
Please help me.

Does Ripley's use flipper opto's? If so you should clean them.

#2041 3 years ago

Can someone take a look at the flipper setup below? It's the lower flipper on my WMS Pharaoh. Picture left is how my game arrived, picture right is a known working setup on a Pharaoh. Notice the reversed diode. Also notice that mine has the Blue and Brown wire doubled up on one lug.

I'm not all that familiar with WMS machines. Will this flipper flip using this wiring/diode setup? Should I expect problems if I re-wire it correctly?

000-pha01 (resized).jpg
#2042 3 years ago
Quoted from spiroagnew:

Can someone take a look at the flipper setup below? It's the lower flipper on my WMS Pharaoh. Picture left is how my game arrived, picture right is a known working setup on a Pharaoh. Notice the reversed diode. Also notice that mine has the Blue and Brown wire doubled up on one lug.
I'm not all that familiar with WMS machines. Will this flipper flip using this wiring/diode setup? Should I expect problems if I re-wire it correctly?

Your wiring will work although it is not according the the textbook.

Rules:
Band of the diode always connected to the power source
EOS across the hold winding (smaller gauge wire coming up to the terminals)

From your picture, we can see the hold winding is on the right terminal. EOS should be between the center and right terminals (correct).
According to the schematics, power should come in on one end of the power winding. In your picture, that is the terminal on the left. If you move power to that terminal, you will have to flip the diode.
According to the schematics, ground from the driver board/cabinet flipper switches should come in on one end of the hold coil. In your picture, that is the terminal on the right.

You can switch all this around and it will make no performance difference. It will only make your game wired up like the schematics.

Whatever you do, you should clean up those solder joints on the coil terminals. They look horrible.

#2043 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

You can switch all this around and it will make no performance difference. I will only make your game wired up like the schematics.
Whatever you do, you should clean up those solder joints on the coil terminals. They look horrible.

Thanks for taking a look. That photo was from the teardown picture. I'm just in the midst of putting it all back together and ran across the creative wiring.

1 week later
#2044 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

UPDATING OLD SS FLIPPERS:
=
=
=
=
Ok, so you've got an old game like Disco Fever and you want to update to the modern style flipper mechs. This will REALLY tighten up the feel of the game and eliminate that 'bounce back' feel.
First label your wires so you know where your 28v and ground is.

Hey Vid, first I want to say THANK YOU!! I’ve followed many of your guides to fix my pins. In fact I’m waiting from the parts from pinballlife to install 4 new flippers on my BK.

I know this topic is about flippers but I was wondering if there’s a similar way to upgrade the left and right kickers on my BK? I’d like them to be stronger as well. The problem is I can’t find any prefabs on the pinball websites and the bracket that’s already in place is short and won’t allow for a longer coil (like the new longer flipper coils you recommended).

Thank you!!

#2045 3 years ago
Quoted from Pintor:

I know this topic is about flippers but I was wondering if there’s a similar way to upgrade the left and right kickers on my BK? I’d like them to be stronger as well. The problem is I can’t find any prefabs on the pinball websites and the bracket that’s already in place is short and won’t allow for a longer coil (like the new longer flipper coils you recommended).

Have you rebuilt them yet? New sleeve, link, plunger? Gapped the switches really close? Even modern games uses the same mech design

#2046 3 years ago
Quoted from Pintor:

I know this topic is about flippers but I was wondering if there’s a similar way to upgrade the left and right kickers on my BK? I’d like them to be stronger as well. The problem is I can’t find any prefabs on the pinball websites and the bracket that’s already in place is short and won’t allow for a longer coil (like the new longer flipper coils you recommended).

Believe it or not, you don't want to change the strength of the slingshots.

If you have ever put a stronger coil in just to keep the game running until the proper coil comes in, you often find that 1 out of 10 shots go directly into the outlanes.

The shot geometry that was so carefully plotted by Mr Ritchie only works with the proper coil.

So as Zacaj says, rebuild them and enjoy. You won't believe how powerful they are when you take all the slop out of the system.

#2047 3 years ago
Quoted from Pintor:

Hey Vid, first I want to say THANK YOU!! I’ve followed many of your guides to fix my pins. In fact I’m waiting from the parts from pinballlife to install 4 new flippers on my BK.
I know this topic is about flippers but I was wondering if there’s a similar way to upgrade the left and right kickers on my BK? I’d like them to be stronger as well. The problem is I can’t find any prefabs on the pinball websites and the bracket that’s already in place is short and won’t allow for a longer coil (like the new longer flipper coils you recommended).
Thank you!!

Quoted from zacaj:

Have you rebuilt them yet? New sleeve, link, plunger? Gapped the switches really close? Even modern games uses the same mech design

Agree with Zacaj and Vid. Disassemble and rebuild the sling mechanism.

Make sure the sling arm is not damaged and specifically at the point where it hits the rubber. Replace if needed.
Disassemble, clean and lube the pivot point (one of the only places lube is allowed on a pinball machine).
Inspect the plunger and replace if mushroomed.
Inspect the link to make sure it hasn't become sloppy. Replace if needed.
New coil sleeve.
Mount the coil on the bracket nice and tight (coil should not easily move/rattle on the bracket when properly installed).
New 22uf 50+v electrolytic capacitor on the switch (watch the polarity of this capacitor, it matters).
Make sure 100 ohm resistor and capacitor are in series across the switch (see page 23 of the manual if in doubt about this wiring).
New rubber around the sling .
Check switch wiring for good connections. Both sling switches should be wired in parallel (see page 23 of the manual if in doubt about this wiring).
Switches cleaned and adjusted.

This should get your slings back into shape!

#2048 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Have you rebuilt them yet? New sleeve, link, plunger? Gapped the switches really close? Even modern games uses the same mech design

Quoted from vid1900:

Believe it or not, you don't want to change the strength of the slingshots.
If you have ever put a stronger coil in just to keep the game running until the proper coil comes in, you often find that 1 out of 10 shots go directly into the outlanes.
The shot geometry that was so carefully plotted by Mr Ritchie only works with the proper coil.
So as Zacaj says, rebuild them and enjoy. You won't believe how powerful they are when you take all the slop out of the system.

Quoted from Schwaggs:

Agree with Zacaj and Vid. Disassemble and rebuild the sling mechanism.
Make sure the sling arm is not damaged and specifically at the point where it hits the rubber. Replace if needed.
Disassemble, clean and lube the pivot point (one of the only places lube is allowed on a pinball machine).
Inspect the plunger and replace if mushroomed.
Inspect the link to make sure it hasn't become sloppy. Replace if needed.
New coil sleeve.
Mount the coil on the bracket nice and tight (coil should not easily move/rattle on the bracket when properly installed).
New 22uf 50+v electrolytic capacitor on the switch (watch the polarity of this capacitor, it matters).
Make sure 100 ohm resistor and capacitor are in series across the switch (see page 23 of the manual if in doubt about this wiring).
New rubber around the sling .
Check switch wiring for good connections. Both sling switches should be wired in parallel (see page 23 of the manual if in doubt about this wiring).
Switches cleaned and adjusted.
This should get your slings back into shape!

Zac, Vid, and schwaggs, thank you! I will follow those instructions and start the rebuild.

#2049 3 years ago

We need a Vids guide to rebuilding and adjusting switches on slingshots.

#2050 3 years ago
Quoted from DMC:

We need a Vids guide to rebuilding and adjusting switches on slingshots.

1. Take it all apart
2. Put the new parts in
3. Put it all back together
4. Make the contacts really close but not *that* close

?

There are 2,687 posts in this topic. You are on page 41 of 54.

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