(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #6 Get the right EOS switch Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #8 Make System 11 Flippers Feel Tight Like Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #88 Replace Old Series Coils With New Parallel Coils Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #140 Udate Old Solid State Flippers Into Fliptronic Style Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #292 List of games with longer/shorter flipper travel Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #294 Rebuilding 1967-1979 Flippers Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #390 Coil stop differences between system 11 and Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #520 Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)


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#1672 4 years ago

Hey vid, working on an EM black jack and having some trouble getting them strong. Rebuilt completely using the PBR kit, and Williams eos, cleaned and gapped eos properly, found out that PBR doesn't sell the right compression springs for it so went back to my old ones. Jumpering the eos makes no difference. Correct, new coils. I'd think I'm going crazy except when I play other bally EMs from that era they're noticeably stronger than these so something must be up...

1. On the newer bally/Williams game, you talk a out using a 0.7mm tool to space the crank from the bushing: does that also apply to older bally flippers? Or should they be nice and close, or some other distance? I'm surprised that no other flipper models mention this since they all have a similar bushing...
2. When downgrading linear flippers to the older bally style, you say to replace the compression spring with an extension spring, but you don't say to do that when rebuilding the same mechs?
3. What # is the compression spring you recommended for linear flippers? I'm not seeing it listed on the posts...

#1674 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Check your voltage at the coils.
Your transformer might be set for the wrong line voltage.

Voltage is correct, actually a bit higher. I'd verified the transformer wiring, and even tried putting it on high tap, but didn't make any difference.

Quoted from vid1900:

All flippers need to be free from binding, or they won't flip full power.
You can use the Williams tool on Bally or any brand.

Cool, good to know. Sadly didn't make any difference either after I widened the gap.

Quoted from vid1900:

If you are rebuilding with the same mechs, then just use the extension spring in the kit.

Ah, wait, I see. I meant rebuilding the same mechs (that you suggest replacing the linears with) (the older ones). So you recommend using the extension spring from the linear mech on the older mech?

Thanks!

1 week later
#1680 4 years ago
Quoted from SteveNZ:

I used the Williams plastic fork tool to gap the pawls. they have a nice amount of up down play.

Can you upload some pics of the flipper wiring?

1 week later
#1700 4 years ago
Quoted from johnjones:

Is there any trick for getting the flippers lined up correctly when tightening the allen screws on the flipper clamps under the playfield?
I know how to "line up" the flipper but when I go to tighten it, there is usually movement and I have to go back several times, loosen the allen screws and attempt to re-line up the flipper and tighten the screws again without moving the flipper.
Any tips are appreciated.
Thanks
John

On old Stern a there's usually a nail behind the flippers. Makes it really easy. Older Williams have a hole behind the flipper you can stick a rod in. Haven't figured out a trick on anything else...

1 week later
#1718 4 years ago

Have you done any math/etc on this? I've been wondering how the extra windings, but over a longer length of coil, play out

#1723 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Order your kit, then send an email telling Terri to substitute the switch you want:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

Isn't it just the normally closed EOS in the dropdown on http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172 ?

2 weeks later
#1737 4 years ago

Vid, is there any reason not to put those caps on older games?

#1753 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I think it's just for putting in your initials for the high score

And revving the engine

#1756 4 years ago
Quoted from Langless28:

You would think they would just put the switch in stack with the flipper buttons no?

Does high speed have stagable flippers? I can't picture three switches in a stack working well.

At some point they also changed to putting the switch on the button so it'd work in attract mode, not sure what year though...

1 week later
#1764 4 years ago

Hey vid, just received a new set of flipper mechs from pinball life and went to wire them up... Am I going crazy, or is this brand new flipper coil hooked up wrong? IMG_20170327_191417.jpg

Other flipper coil which was the way I expected for reference:

IMG_20170327_191428.jpg

#1766 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sure looks wrong, lol

Do you think it'd be safe to just... clip the left one off and turn it around? I'm not too familiar with parallel coils or how I could verify that the coil is 'correct' once I turn it around.

4 weeks later
#1787 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Awesome thanks. So is the risk here that on the left flipper if held up for too long the coil is gonna burn up?

Not on Sterns. They handle the not-burning-up part in software, (as do fliptronics WPC games) so you're safe. If you hold the flipper up and hit it with a ball hard it'll dip down.

#1789 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

So then why the EOS switch? I feel like this has been discussed elsewhere but cannot remember what the answer was.

It's so the CPU knows when the flipper has dropped due to a ball hitting it, and can give it another pulse to put it back up,

2 weeks later
#1802 4 years ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

but read your post that mentioned not to put a new style flipper shaft into an older pawl since it wouldn't come back out due to the lack of a keyway

Can you link to this? Curious

1 month later
#1837 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay and what does the filing do exactly? Just trying to understand the theory behind it.

The assumption being you can't make it tighter because the two sides have already 'met', so if you file them back you can close it a bit further, gripping the shaft tighter.

1 month later
#1841 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Here's a super newb question... When using a toothpick to line up the flippers, the toothpick is not tight in the hole so it moves around. When you push the flipper against the toothpick, it moves around as you tighten. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to line it up accurately?
I generally use the toothpicks as a guide, eyeball it, and then use a digital inclinometer to see that it's roughly in line with the ball guide, but there must be a better way!

Thicker toothpick?

#1843 4 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hahaha yes I tried that too. But toothpick still seems to wobble around a little bit. Seems the whole is not deep enough to hold it firmly. Is it just my game perhaps? Do you guys find that the toothpick holds in well enough to apply pressure and it doesn't move?

Shouldn't it go all the way through?

2 weeks later
#1875 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I just picked up an Eight Ball Champ and I want to rebuild the flippers. The strange thing with this game is that it came out in 1985 but doesn't have linear flippers. The flipper mechs look similar to early SS flipper mechs from the late 70's but slightly different. The coils are also 43 volt. Does anyone have any recommendations on what to rebuild them with? I'm thinking about upgrading to Fliptronics but not sure which options as far as coil/coil stop to select when selecting the full assembly from PBL? thanks!

All ballys are 43v. Don't convert to fliptronics, you won't get the right throw

2 weeks later
#1890 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Don't believe those are the right coils there. WPC coils should have two diodes, and the SFL nomenclature isn't right either, AFAIK.

Technically, as long as it's not fliptronics, either a parallel or series wound coil should work fine, given the proper wiring, shouldn't it? If I remember correctly, the coils on pre-50V, post EM mech williams games are this style

2 weeks later
#1901 4 years ago

Can you take a side on shot of the coil, plunger, and bushing?

1 month later
#1910 3 years ago
Quoted from ypurchn:

So I just rebuilt my BTTF flippers top to bottom from new bats to new coils. I’ve struggling to keep the flipper bat from rotating after 8-10 flips. I’ve retightend and readjusted 4 times and they keep coming loose. I even took the socket cap screw allen key and I put a set of locking pliers on it to make a cheater bar and they’re still rotating. I was literally lifting the PF tightening the cap screws down. What am I doing wrong? I thought about a dab of jb weld but I know I’ll regret that in the future. Please help

Are the two sides of the crank that squeeze the shaft touching?

1 week later
#1927 3 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Now that the upgraded mechs are in there is there another adjustment I need to do to get 50v to the coils?
I ended up drilling pilot holes for the new mechs, the screws wouldn't cooperate.

There's no 50v available on your game (any Williams with 50v available already has newer mechs), you need to use the older coils designed for the 28V

2 months later
#1953 3 years ago
Quoted from membername:

Hi everyone, basic question, do I need low voltage or high voltage EOS switches for Funhouse?
Thanks,
Karen

High voltage until around Addams family with fliptronic

1 week later
#1956 3 years ago
Quoted from AAAV8R:

Where should I look for the cause of the buzzing noise? What is the best way to get rid of this?

It's normal.

Quoted from AAAV8R:There is some play in the coil, both laterally and longitudinally. i.e. I can rotate the coil a little bit, and I can move it a tiny bit lengthwise. Is this an “issue”? Is the solenoid assembly not being locked down tight robbing my flippers of power?

Mine always have a bit of wiggle.

2 weeks later
#1982 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Coming back to it next day, it was nice and strong. Got weak as play went on. Gonna replace coil and replace other parts if deemed necessary. Thanks!

Flippers are stageable right? I'd clean the flipper button contact

2 weeks later
#1991 3 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

the coil has the same windings for power and hold (1 ohm)

That doesn't sound right at all... What coil number was used? 1 ohm or 2 ohm, either way that coil will heat up real quick if energized continuously

#1997 3 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

If you're getting 1 ohm across a closed EOS, it needs cleaning, alignment or replacement. It should read as a dead short (or very close to).

It might be averaging out with the coil resistance. Can't reliably test eos resistance while it's attached to the coil

1 month later
#2027 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The first game I ever saw them on (and not all of them, mind you) was Space Shuttle, although a few Sorcerers had them too.
They were big black caps, screwed to the playfield.
So some early SS indeed had them.

It should technically be better on all games with DC flippers, shouldn't it?

#2029 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm on my phone so I can't find it, but there was a RGP thread that explained how the higher the voltage of the coils, the more the capacitor mattered (with actual math).

More better!

2 months later
#2045 3 years ago
Quoted from Pintor:

I know this topic is about flippers but I was wondering if there’s a similar way to upgrade the left and right kickers on my BK? I’d like them to be stronger as well. The problem is I can’t find any prefabs on the pinball websites and the bracket that’s already in place is short and won’t allow for a longer coil (like the new longer flipper coils you recommended).

Have you rebuilt them yet? New sleeve, link, plunger? Gapped the switches really close? Even modern games uses the same mech design

#2050 3 years ago
Quoted from DMC:

We need a Vids guide to rebuilding and adjusting switches on slingshots.

1. Take it all apart
2. Put the new parts in
3. Put it all back together
4. Make the contacts really close but not *that* close

?

#2053 3 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

How close? Adjust them until the slingshot machine guns, then back it off a bit?

Basically, if you want to get them as strong and active as possible. I get them so close I can't see the gap, then back up if they machine gun. Sometimes they just don't. Note though: I don't recommend this for games that will be unattended for long periods, especially on EMs, Gottlieb games thru sys80 and williams thru sys11, as if your adjustment goes a bit off they'll burn up. Games with software controlled slings like ballys are fine. That said, I've never had it happen on any of mine, even ones on location, but.

4 weeks later
#2062 3 years ago

Vid, I'm considering attempting a conversion of my Black Knight to 50V flippers, do you have any idea what 50V coil would be the equivalent of the stock coils, or maybe just a bit more oomph? I'm hoping to get it to go up the ramps easier but not so strong as to really stand out.

#2064 3 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

You don't need 50V flippers to make it up the ramp. Either rebuild yours or upgrade to these @ pinball life:
Full Flipper Assembly For Williams/Bally Machines From 02/1992 To 10/1998
a-15205-r-2_a-15205-l-2
Options:
Choose A Base Plate : Left
Choose A Coil : SFL-19-400/30-750
Choose a Coil Stop : A-12111 (+1%)
Choose An EOS Switch : 03-7811 Normally Closed EOS (+5%)
I've done this with my system 7 machines when needed and they are near perfect. My BK hits the left ramp from a trap with no problems. And it only takes 5 minutes to install. Can't imagine the hacks you'd need for 50V.

My flippers are already fully rebuilt originals. I don't like the feel of the newer style mechs in these games (a friend has them in theirs). My BK is the fastest I've played, but it doesn't feel satisfying as the ball just limps over the ramps and coasts slowly across the upper playfield. I can't just wing a ball at a ramp on the fly and expect it to get up every time. I also like my BK nice and steep, every other one I play is way too floaty and is just boring to play.

Steve Ritchie has said before that we wanted to have 50V flippers in BK, but they weren't ready yet, so I'd like to see how it compares. I already have a spare 50V small transformer from a newer williams game that had 50V flippers, so all I need to do is get two new coils and feed that 50V to them, nice and clean.

#2066 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

You could try replacing all the contact points in the path from transformer to coil. There are at least 20 contact points in the path, each 38 year old contact point is taking a small toll (some could be taking a large toll).
Bridge rectifier spade connectors - 4 (remove spades and solder)
Power board connectors - 4 (replace wafer connectors and pins, replace header pins, replace IDC with Trufuricon crimp-on)
C13 on the power board (not a contact point but it provides surge power for the flippers and solenoids)
Driver board connectors - 2 (J10 and J13 - replace header pins, replace IDC with Trufuricon crimp-on)
Fuse holder clips - 2 (replace clips, new shiny fuse)
Cabinet switches - 1
EOS switch - 1
Molex connectors between cabinet, playfield and backbox - 8 or so (re-pin with new molex pins)
Most people focus on the cabinet switches and EOS but these others can be a problem as well.

Bridge rectifier replaced and soldered, power and driver board repinned, capacitors replaced (even experimented with stronger caps), fuse holders replaced, cab and eos switches replaced. Don't have the tool to remove the inline connectors but I ohmed them out and they were all low and I tried jumpering past them without any change. Like I said, it's the fastest BK I've played, but I'm not satisfied. I want to play it the way it was intended.

#2077 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That's the way SR designed it.

That's not what what the designer says.

Also, after playing at papa and talking with their techs, I have no confidence that any or their games are rebuilt, let alone properly, or that they're the arbiter of what a properly maintained game is.

The flippers on that look weak, and it's floaty as hell. If a BK plays like that I'd rather not play. Mine makes the ramps better than that and it's raked.

Not to mention, half this thread is about installing new mechs on games that weren't 'designed' for them. What I'm attempting to do is more in line than any of that

1 week later
#2083 3 years ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Just picked up a Black Knight which has rebuilt flippers. None of the four flippers has a rubber cushion mounted where the plunger rests. Shouldn't it have one for the hardware to rest on? I picked up some today at my hardware store designed for a vehicle that fit perfectly. Second photo attached. With the rubber "snubber" installed, I just need to adjust the flipper at rest.
[quoted image][quoted image]

The diagram in the parts manual doesn't show anything. I've never seen a mech from that era with a bumper

#2087 3 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

My BK didn't have any either. Nor did my Firepower. I replaced the entire flipper mech on both machines (only lowers on BK) with the setup from Pinball Life on Vid's recommendation. I think they have the rubber stopper in place.
The question is, does it make any difference to how the flipper works? I figure it will reduce vibration that would get sent back through all of the components which in turn reduces wear and tear.

It's going to affect the stroke height of the flippers. The modern mechs might be adjusted to compensate already though.

#2089 3 years ago

It's not in the parts manual for that kind of mech though, so it shouldn't be installed

1 week later
#2116 3 years ago

Vid, any idea what the proper stroke length (tip to tip) of a system 6/7 flipper should be? I thought I had fully rebuilt my Alien Poker but then I played the one at pinburgh and they were much shallower. Wondering if I'm missing something or if they had done that on purpose for difficulty.

#2118 3 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

All the flippers at pinburgh are setup shallow. The machines are intentionally set up difficult so don’t compare your machines to them.

So they actually built in longer plungers just for that?

#2120 3 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Thicker coil stops do the trick too.
An even easier thing to do is to setup the flippers flatter, or pointing down more. That would make them act like they don’t have the same range and you probably wouldn’t notice they were lower in that environment.

These have the built in coil stops by default, unless papa has done the vid mod. And they seemed to be oriented the same. Just half an inch less throw

1 month later
#2142 3 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

PBR lists heights for the different stops on the detailed breakdowns of the flipper rebuild kits. eg. http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP05.html
A10821 protrudes 0.33" into sleeve
A12111 protrudes 0.37" into sleeve
A12390 protrudes 0.42" into sleeve
There's some other notes about flipper mechs around that era: http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#baseplate

Having investigated this recently, either I'm measuring incorrectly or these measurements are completely wrong. I tried every measurement I could think of and none matched up.

The one actually useful measurement though, I think, is the distance from the top of the stop (what the plunger rests against when engaged) and the near side of the vertical plate (what the coil rests against). This sounds like the dame thing pbr says, but..

Measuring this on some A-12111s (assuming I was sent the right part...), that measurement is 0.28".

The measurement on a pinball life repro system 7 base plate with the built in stop is 0.246". The height of the used plate in my black knight (no cupping that I can see) is 0.25".

Also important is the length of the plunger, which I wish I had info on, but I can't even trust stores to send me the right plunger matching their picture, let alone be sure they're reproduced matching original specs...

#2148 3 years ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

So, there are different size plungers also? And I'm assuming since different travel lengths each one uses a different link also?

I'm not sure about earlier williams but Pinball 2000 used different length plungers iirc. The unsurety is what concerns me.

Quoted from ajfclark:

From the back of the bracket to the tip of the coil they do line up though. eg.

For some reason I couldn't get those to work out for me, but I don't trust them anyway. No guarantee they'll always use the same method of attaching the cores.

2 weeks later
#2159 3 years ago
Quoted from Fezmid:

I have to rebuild the flippers on my T2. I ordered a rebuild kit many months ago, just in case I needed it and lo-and-behold, now I do. I re-read the guide, and saw that Vid recommends replacing the coils. Since I was at work, I looked in the manual (posted on ipdb.org) and it said to use FL-11630 (https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-fl-11630-flipper-coil.html). That matched what Pinball Life's site said too, so I didn't think anything of it. I got home and looked at what's there, and saw it's FL-11629 (blue).
So I checked ipdb.org again, and while the manual does say 11630 (red), the "Parts list" text file on the site says 11629 (blue).
So which is correct? And more importantly, does it matter? Can I use the red one I ordered?
Edit: Looking at this thread, the person has 11629 (blue) coils... :/ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terminator-2-weak-flippers
Edit2: This thread from 2004 says I should use red... even though most have blue... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/qmx97KWng2k

I thought mine played much better with blue. Could make the left orbit consistently

#2180 3 years ago
Quoted from Fezmid:

Great, thanks. Saves me some time.
Just took apart the flipper for the first time (including my first time desoldering! Woohoo!). However when I took it apart, the assembly looks pretty good... It looks more like the new kit I bought than the pictures vid showed in the thread. Should I just put this back together? Maybe it was some sort of tension issue causing the flipper not to go down? Or am I missing something here?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Make sure there's no play in the link

#2183 3 years ago
Quoted from Fezmid:

Oh, I kept skipping those steps because T2 isn't a System 11 according to IPDB, so I didn't think it applied. Back to reading.

Not a system 11, but they didn't upgrade their flippers until after the first 5-10 wpc games. Until then they still used system 11 'style'

3 months later
#2244 2 years ago

The EOS needs to be closed when the flipper is at rest. You must have something wired wrong. CPU can't effect the flippers.

#2246 2 years ago

Can you post a picture of your new wiring?

4 weeks later
#2260 2 years ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

The problem I face is that even with new parts, there is up down movement of the shaft inside the coil sleeve. When I do that method, and pull the spacer out..gravity pulls the flipper bat back flush with the bushing again.
These mechanisms are too sloppy for that kind of precision. Just adjust it so it doesnt bind and doesnt touch the playfield.

When the flipper is energized, the flipper should rise up a bit. I always put my spacer below the bushing, between that and the crank, since that's how it'll sit anyway

1 week later
#2280 2 years ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Just for the heck of it I measured resistance across the switches while in circuit. Around .4 ohms on the stronger one, 1.4 ohms on the weaker one

Desolder one lug of the switches and measure again

#2289 2 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

vid1900, have you covered the difference between ~sys 11 flippers and WPC era? I gather that the Fliptronic design has put the EOS switch on the switch matrix, decoupling it from the high voltage line. (And Sega/DE copied this redesign, though their switches retain “normally closed” status.) I would love to read a breakdown of the fundamental differences between these systems. And, for the sake of dialing in flipper strength, with “normally open” switches, does the reverse setting apply - i.e., where sys 11 EOS wants to be closed until the last possible moment, Fliptronic should be fapped so them at the very end of the stroke closes the switch?
Forgive me if I’m asking about something that has been covered within the thread...

Fliptronics eos aren't part of the switch matrix per se, they have their own dedicated inputs. The eos shouldn't affect the strength either, just a set pulse length no matter what

#2292 2 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Right, I'm misusing the term there, aren't I? So, owing to the fact that the switch is completely separated from the coil, the gap is now non-critical? Interesting.

Supposedly the switch is only used to keep the flipper up if a ball lands on it. It's hard to know exactly how they work though, since it's all logic in the code. Could have changed game to game for all we know, if unlikely.

Many of my wpc games didn't even have eos when I got them, they still played fine.

3 weeks later
#2307 2 years ago

Usually one is correct, but I think TZ was the swapover game?

#2309 2 years ago
Quoted from Pesmerga:

Which swapover?
I have bought both PN A-12111 and A-12390 (for those pin that needs it) but they have the same length and shape! What should be the difference?
Do you know what is the PN for these longer coil stop?

PBR has all three listed on their site with lengths: http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP05.html. I can't ever get the same measurements they do but good for comparison. My memory is a bit hazy on this, but some time in the 90s Williams swapped from medium to tall stops, making the flippers shallower, and I've heard it mentioned that midway through the TZ run was when this happened?

I'd probably just go with whatever part number is listed in the manual though, unless you have a play style preference. I had to put taller stops on my Funhouse because the shorter sys11 style ones were just too steep for me

1 week later
#2313 2 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

You reminded me of a problem I had on my Grand Prix EM. It too was dragging. The flippers bats were the old, 2 piece style with the plastic bat screwed to the metal post and arm. I simply removed the plastic bat, bent the arm up (it is a softer metal) and re-assembled. No more dragging flipper!

I always replace em bat's with newer single piece ones. I've seen many older ones that have sagged. Plus the new ones are lighter

#2316 2 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

How do you handle the set screw? If you use a modern flipper bat without the recess on the shaft, the mushrooming of the shaft from the pointed set screw makes it impossible to remove.

Never had that problem somehow

2 weeks later
#2331 2 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

Correct, mine didn't have movement, but the center bracket was pulling the plunger down, causing it to bind inside the coil sleeve. Once spaced up, it was smooth as butter.

Sounds like your crank is too low on the flipper

4 months later
#2358 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Don’t worry about the threads. Get a screw that is smaller than the plate hole and put a nut on the back of it.

It won't really be a locking nut then though?

They're 6-32 iirc

5 months later
#2438 1 year ago
Quoted from trk12fire:

I just removed a flipper from Firepower and another from Blackout. Firepower has an additional 1/8" long plunger.[quoted image][quoted image]

I doubt that FP plunger is original. The grey links didn't come until much later.

#2448 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

That is NOT the correct tapered plunger & link assembly. It's a WPC plunger & link.
Also, you have a pop bumper spring on that assembly and do not have the correct TAPERED (a.k.a. conical) flipper return spring.

Older games had non-tapered springs. I don't think they switched to them for a few years after going to the single piece base

3 months later
#2470 1 year ago

And the proper EOS

1 week later
#2476 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

If you mean by going with Williams flippers (not recommended IMO) you can buy complete assemblies from pinball life. The bat will be wrong, the coil will be too 'hot' (williams flipper coils of the appropriate vintage are intended for 28v, not 43v) and it might not physically fit in the FG machine.

Couldn't you just use 50V coils for the bally? They'd be a bit weaker at 43 but. Also why wouldn't a bally bat work?

#2478 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

The whole point of changing the flippers would be to make them stronger so why go with 50v flipper coils if you didn't have to?

Powering 25V coils with 43v seems like it's going to just smash things

#2480 1 year ago

I had rebuilt linears in mine and there was no issues. felt fine. I don't get what the issue people have with them is

#2488 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Same coils as you’re using now I believe. Pinball life’s assemblies have a drop down to pick the correct coil. The rest is all new and included in the assembly. It’s just one item you have to buy. It’s all there.

The bally coils aren't going to be the right size for a williams mech, will they?

I feel like you probably want an 11630 but hard to be sure without someone having tested them in a bally already

2 weeks later
#2496 1 year ago
Quoted from cocomonkeh:

Asking this again. Is there anything on the fliptronics board I should check or anything in the power system? It’s not the eos it’s a wpc game

Clean/replace optos?

4 months later
#2535 9 months ago

I've had the same thing.. There's a noticeable difference between the coil strengths, I'd definitely recommend swapping to the stronger ones

2 months later
#2579 7 months ago

Stern recommends considering a flipper rebuilt every 5000 games per the manual

#2581 7 months ago
Quoted from djd9617:

On my gottlieb genesis, my left flipper acts a bit funky; only after holding it up for several (over 10) seconds, there develops a delay between when I press the flipper button, and when the bat flips. Also, with the flipper button held, and the bat up, I can force the bat down, and it takes a good 1/2 second for the primary coil to re-engage, which is very perplexing because the EOS switch on the flipper mech is normally open. So forcing the bat down immediately opens the EOS, so I don't think it's an oxidation problem with the EOS switch. It looks like it's in the correct position too. I'm thinking maybe a bad coil?

the eos should be normally closed at rest? if you push the bat down it closes again which gives it the extra power to stay up

1 week later
#2584 7 months ago

Twilight Zone is a fliptronics game. None of the talk here about gaps, etc matters for that. There should be a note stapled to your playfield saying that the EOS is backwards from older games technially.

Fliptronics games should have Normally Open EOS switches. They should close right near the end of the stroke, but if they don't it's not a big deal. The game will even work fine with no EOS.

#2600 6 months ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I really do not know if ths is the right place to post this, but I watched a cool video from Jersey Jacks on flippers last week and can't find the thread.
I have 2 Addams family games and one played so much harder, I realized the flippers were pointing down the drain like 2 degrees compared to the other machine. Moved the flippers up so little you can hardly notice it and it is like a new game!
What is the best way to set the angle of flippers on a game?

Williams games have holes in the playfield that should be aligned to the back edge of the flipper bat. Usually that results in flippers whose front edges are parallel to the inlane guide, but not in all cases

#2602 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmeds:

My rule of thumb is to make it a perfect continuation of the angle of the return lane (if present), to prevent any ball hop or slow down

You better not adjust any classic stern flippers... Or a ton of 80s gottliebs. Or Ghostbusters, TWD, etc

4 weeks later
#2612 5 months ago

You can swap system 3 gottliebs to williams WPC mechs (just treat it like, say, a T2) without issue as long as they fit. Use the shorter coil stops to retain the gottlieb's high travel, or use a taller one if you want your game harder (makes catching harder and shots 'narrower' due to the angle you can shoot at.

I've also had success improving the action of the original mechs by adding extension springs and using the older style coil stop designed for sys80 games

#2629 5 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Both machines are powered pretty much identically, right? WHy in the world would one feel different from the other?

The eternal pinball question, lol

#2632 5 months ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

The rubber flipper coil stop grommets on the mounting plates are dead or worn, robbing energy from the ball

Sterns don't have those

3 weeks later
#2660 4 months ago

Are you sure it's the right coil? That wrapping doesn't look anything like what's on my '48 williams.

#2663 4 months ago
Quoted from packie1:

I am not sure but I assume that it is correct as the above pics of another machine has the same wrapper color. I know that doesn't mean jack but I don't have a schematic for the game. any help out there from other collectors? I have A-26-1100 on this coil,
Mike

I'm not sure what coil is correct. Williams used different numbering back then. But PBR probably has a schematic, or may even be able to just tell you what the correct coil is if you want to confirm

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