(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 2345 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 47.
#351 5 years ago

Lose the nut driver and put a wrench on the nut side and break it loose, while holding the allen head bolt. You want to break the nut loose not the bolt.

#352 5 years ago

Each side turns left, correct?

#353 5 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Each side turns left, correct?

Counterclockwise on the nut- correct.
But don't use a nut driver. Get some leverage. A six point socket or wrench of quality is your best bet And make sure you hold the allen steady, so you don't break something.

#354 5 years ago

All good advice above,.

..and of course, anytime with a stuck nut, first TIGHTEN (turn right) a bit to break the thread bond, then flip the switch on the wrench and back the nut off normally.

Even with the nut loose, you may have to put a flat blade screwdriver in the slot of the pawl and open her up a little to get the shaft out.

#355 5 years ago

And watch those knuckles!

#356 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

All good advice above,.
..and of course, anytime with a stuck nut, first TIGHTEN (turn right) a bit to break the thread bond, then flip the switch on the wrench and back the nut off normally.
Even with the nut loose, you may have to put a flat blade screwdriver in the slot of the pawl and open her up a little to get the shaft out.

Is there a "normal" way to "back off the nut"? Hell, I'd settle for an abnormal way. I'm sure my wife would too.

#357 5 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Is there a "normal" way to "back off the nut"? Hell, I'd settle for an abnormal way. I'm sure my wife would too.

Just have her snap one on!
DSCN1913.JPG

#358 5 years ago

It worked! Left the allen wrench in and just torqed that mofo with the ratchet on the nut. thanks Pinside! You guys rock.

#359 5 years ago

Stupid question but figured I should ask: Fliptronics flippers. Does the EOS care where the orange and black wires are? Obviously not together but the switch just needs see a make and break or am I way off?

#360 5 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Stupid question but figured I should ask: Fliptronics flippers. Does the EOS care where the orange and black wires are? Obviously not together but the switch just needs see a make and break or am I way off?

Doesn't matter for that appplication.

Closing that switch is just like touching the wires together - doesn't matter what leaf side it's attached to.

RussMyers

#361 5 years ago

Perfect thread. Just got a Banzai and picked up some rebuild kits. Thanks.

#362 5 years ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

Doesn't matter for that appplication.
Closing that switch is just like touching the wires together - doesn't matter what leaf side it's attached to.
RussMyers

Thanks Russ. I really figured that but figured it was worth the stupid question to hopefully save someone else. I actually had searched it so many times and usually just match wiring.

#363 5 years ago

I have a wpt that i rebuild the flippers on and I'm having an issue with my left flipper.
when i push the flipper button flipper goes up but after a push on the flipper (or a ball hitting it) it becomes de-energized. I thought this was the EOS switch so i replaced it and it works and is gapped properly. I've also replaced the coil sleeve, plunger mech, and end stop. Is my actual coil bad?

Any help is appreciated…
thanks,
PDXmonkey

#364 5 years ago

WPT is Stern (modern).

The EOS switches are Normally Closed, like DE, yes?

They should only open by the pawl at the end of the flipper's stroke.

If the flipper bat is up (low-power hold) and gets pushed down and the EOS closes, it should instantly (high power) kick again to hold the bat up.

Is that how yours are operating?

RussMyers

Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I have a wpt that i rebuild the flippers on and I'm having an issue with my left flipper.
when i push the flipper button flipper goes up but after a push on the flipper (or a ball hitting it) it becomes de-energized. I thought this was the EOS switch so i replaced it and it works and is gapped properly.

#365 5 years ago

EOS is NC
And opens at about 95% of the end.
Kind of sometimes it tries to move back up and will lazily twitch.
Sometime is just goes dead but makes a noise.
Depends on the amount of force down.

1 week later
#366 5 years ago

Well I picked up a SWE1 and I'm on to the flippers. This is my first machine and I'm learning as I go. I have a question and I have read every post but I still might have missed it.

I'm going to start my flipper rebuild and I noticed that mine don't have the capacitors. I looked in the manual and didn't see one listed. So....should I put the capacitors on ? If so how do I wire them up since it don't have any to begin with?

Thanks in advance

#367 5 years ago
Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

Well I picked up a SWE1 and I'm on to the flippers. This is my first machine and I'm learning as I go. I have a question and I have read every post but I still might have missed it.
I'm going to start my flipper rebuild and I noticed that mine don't have the capacitors. I looked in the manual and didn't see one listed. So....should I put the capacitors on ? If so how do I wire them up since it don't have any to begin with?
Thanks in advance

No capacitors needed on that generation. I believe Williams Fliptronic and newer no longer need capacitors for flippers.

#368 5 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

No capacitors needed on that generation. I believe Williams Fliptronic and newer no longer need capacitors for flippers.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering.

#369 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Games made from 02/1992 to 04/1993 have longer flipper travel:
GetawayAddams FamilyBlack RoseDocter WhoFish TalesCreature from the Black LagoonWhitewaterBS DraculaTwilight Zone
=========================================================
Games made from 08/1993 to 10/1998 have shorter flipper travel:
Indiana JonesJudge DreddStar Trek: The Next GenerationDemolition ManPopeye Save the EarthWorld Cup SoccerThe FlintstonesCorvetteRoad Showthe addams family goldThe ShadowDirty HarryTheatre of MagicNo FearIndianapolis 500Johnny MnemonicWHO dunnitJackbotCongoAttack from MarsSafecrackerTales of the Arabian NightsScared StiffjunkyardNBA FastbreakMedieval MadnessCirqus VoltaireNo Good GofersChampion PubMonster BashCactus Canyon

Is it acceptable/ interchangeable to use an earlier kit in a more recent game?

I do NOT like the amount of flipper travel on my roadshow as I am used to TAF, FT, CFTBL, TZ and it is noticabley less on RS.

I would like my RS flips to be able to travel the same distance as my other games. Do I just order the older kit? or do I need to chaneg something else?

Also I noticed my left flipper button is a leaf switch and right is opto style on RS, is this normal?

#370 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Also I noticed my left flipper button is a leaf switch and right is opto style on RS, is this normal?

FWIW, I have opto's on both sides of my RS...

#371 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Is it acceptable/ interchangeable to use an earlier kit in a more recent game?

It would confuse the hell out of an experienced player, but it's your game.

If the plungers and links are in good shape, just swap the coil stops and see if you like the difference in travel.

#372 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It would confuse the hell out of an experienced player, but it's your game.
If the plungers and links are in good shape, just swap the coil stops and see if you like the difference in travel.

OK, so the only difference is the length of the coil stop? That is a quick fix then.

Quoted from dmacy:

FWIW, I have opto's on both sides of my RS...

HMMM. I may need to start atthread and get this fixed/ figure out what is going on. An operator did at one time jerryrig in a alalog counter. Maybe they screwed with the flipper switch at the same time?

#373 5 years ago

Thanks for the tutorial Vid1900, absolutely awesome. I'm looking to rebuild flippers for the first time and will be referencing this post quite often...

2 weeks later
#374 5 years ago

What a post! This clearly cites the difference between re-building a flipper assembly, and re-building a flipper assembly 'correctly'. Once again...way to go old man!

#375 5 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

way to go old man!

It's inspiring when a guy well into his 80's is so integral to a community. Hope I still have that zest for pinball at that age.

-mof

#376 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

It's inspiring when a guy well into his 80's is so integral to a community. Hope I still have that zest for pinball at that age.
-mof

Vid's only in his 80's?

#377 5 years ago
Quoted from BadBrad97:

Vid's only in his 80's?

I think he is 113. Based on the year of his birth, 1900.

3 weeks later
#378 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

When installing the Coil, squeeze the brackets towards each other as you tighten the cap head bolts.
You don't want the coil moving around robbing your game of power. Tight is what you want, no play, no slop.

Doing a flipper rebuild on my High Speed now. Had to replace the coils, but the new coils are like a mm shorter than the factory ones, preventing me from getting the coil in tight. Any idea what I can do?

#379 5 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Doing a flipper rebuild on my High Speed now. Had to replace the coils, but the new coils are like a mm shorter than the factory ones, preventing me from getting the coil in tight. Any idea what I can do?

Make sure that the coil stop bracket is square (90*) to the base.

Bend it in a vise if needed.

Using a small rat tail file, you could also elongate the mounting holes by 2mm to make up the gap.

#380 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's not in your kit, but remember to zip-tie your Capacitor to the bracket.
Now solder the Capacitor to the new EOS switch. The Capacitor has no polarity, that is a fancy way of saying that either lead can go to either terminal of the switch.
The Capacitor helps keep the switch from pitting as much. Yes, you should use it.

ZIP-TIE.jpg 51 KB

Isn't high speed a system 11 game? I went to do the mod and didn't see the bracket or a capacitor:

IMG_20140109_190519[1].jpg
#381 5 years ago

But the good news is that Lloyd Christmas inspected my game, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

AiGWfMD.jpg
#382 5 years ago

High Speed and a few other early System 11s like Pinbot have the older serial flipper coils, so no cap and no attachment point

It looks like someone replaced the coils with parallel coils at some point though, so they should have the cap for sure. You'll either have to get creative or replace the flipper mounting plates

Curious application of electrical tape and zip tie on the right, that EOS switch is sad and needs to go to the great parts bin in the sky before the coil blows up

#383 5 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Isn't high speed a system 11 game? I went to do the mod and didn't see the bracket or a capacitor:

IMG_20140109_190519[1].jpg 442 KB

Wow, that's a mess.

You can get new bases with the brackets:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259

You will need Capacitors, high voltages EOS switches, rebuild kit with better springs.

That game is going to love you when your done!

#384 5 years ago

Vid would have had a heart attack if he saw this pin in person. Zip ties, hacks, lube around the spring. I didn't find a wd40 straw, but some some marks of something being spray into the area.

#385 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make sure that the coil stop bracket is square (90*) to the base.
Bend it in a vise if needed.
Using a small rat tail file, you could also elongate the mounting holes by 2mm to make up the gap.

Rat tail file worked brilliantly, thanks vid!

2 weeks later
#386 5 years ago

This thread is full of awesome. Thanks, vid!

I already had a few flipper rebuilds & bat/rubber swaps under my belt, but I learned tons more reading this entire thread over several lunches at work!

- I got an Addams Family bundled with 2 flipper rebuild kits for the bottom flippers. When rebuilt, the bats didn't go up as much as I'd like, so I trimmed the connecting links. Much better! Fortunately, I did notice the lack of bushings in the kits & replaced those while I was in there.

- On TAF, I went ahead & just swapped the entire 2 upper flipper assemblies, base & all, while I was at it. The Pinball Life complete kits are handy dandy & big time-savers. Per one of your earlier posts, I did get indeed stung by noticing after all this work that the upper left mini bat plastic was cracked. One more order needed to be placed. Those mini bats are a little hard to come by--Little Shop of Games was where I found them. I went ahead & bought/swapped all 4 bats while I was at it--if one was cracked, another might crack soon too.

- After reading your thread, I went back into all 4 TAF flippers & all 4 on my Grand Lizard & used a shim tool (cut up Craftsman Club card) & inserted gaps between the bushing & bats. My Meteor & Medusa use set screws on the bat shafts instead of clamps, so there seemed to be no way to adjust the bat shafts on these assemblies.

Thanks!
-Jason

#387 5 years ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

My Meteor & Medusa use set screws on the bat shafts instead of clamps, so there seemed to be no way to adjust the bat shafts on these assemblies.

Can't you loosen the set screws, adjust the bat shaft (put your gap tool between flipper and PF and push down on the flipper) and tighten them back up? Hope so, I'm doing that to my Xenon (though it would help to have a third hand).

#388 5 years ago
Quoted from gtown:

Can't you loosen the set screws, adjust the bat shaft (put your gap tool between flipper and PF and push down on the flipper) and tighten them back up? Hope so, I'm doing that to my Xenon (though it would help to have a third hand).

The indentations the set screws make in the shaft can get in your way if you are trying to make a small change. The set screws seem to find their way back to the original spots unless you are making a large change. The fix is either swapping the flipper bats from right to left and vice versa, or buying new ones and getting them set right the first time.

#389 5 years ago

good point, I may have that issue going on. I'll have to see if swapping will help. thanks!

1 week later
#390 5 years ago

I fixed a Tri Zone where one flipper had much more travel than the other.

Someone had installed 2 different coil stops.

COIL-STOP.jpg

#391 5 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

IMG_20140109_190519[1].jpg 442 KB

I'm not imagining things, am I? That right-hand flipper has the high-current NC leaf switch permanently closed shut with some electrical tape and a zip-tie? If anyone were to hold some balls on that flipper during a multi-ball, or the like, then that is going to be toast pretty quick!

#392 5 years ago
Quoted from nedreud:

I'm not imagining things, am I? That right-hand flipper has the high-current NC leaf switch permanently closed shut with some electrical tape and a zip-tie? If anyone were to hold some balls on that flipper during a multi-ball, or the like, then that is going to be toast pretty quick!

It's really nice, isn't it?

Sadly, I see crap like that all the time.

#393 5 years ago

Vid, great post!! Nice to see someone like yourself that is willing to take the time to put stuff like this up for others to learn from! Also, its a great break from all those post where people are b*tching about anything and everything! Thanks again!!!

1 week later
#394 5 years ago

This great thread! Really helpful. Did you do this on the PAPA website? It the exact samething thing. Just curious! I cant flip my coils around on my High Speed, its not designed like that and after viewing other peoples High Speeds its the same as mine, coil lugs same side as coil stop. Gonna do the updated spring hook up. Thanks.

#395 5 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Did you do this on the PAPA website?

Yes.

#396 5 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

I cant flip my coils around on my High Speed, its not designed like that and after viewing other peoples High Speeds its the same as mine, coil lugs same side as coil stop.

You might have to take the wires out of the plastic restraining loop to give yourself enough slack.

Other games can sometimes require a few zip ties be snipped to acquire enough slack.

Once you find the slack, zip tie the wires so they don't rub on any other moving parts.

#397 5 years ago

this is great

#398 5 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

This great thread! Really helpful. Did you do this on the PAPA website? It the exact samething thing. Just curious! I cant flip my coils around on my High Speed, its not designed like that and after viewing other peoples High Speeds its the same as mine, coil lugs same side as coil stop. Gonna do the updated spring hook up. Thanks.

Recently rebuilt mine and discovered this as well. Came to the conclusion that I'd need new bases in order to update the springs, and new bracket in order to reverse the coil. I had already decided to sell mine, so decided to just keep it like it came from the factory.

#399 5 years ago

Just got my first Gottlieb machine, Black Hole. Wondering what the EOS gap should be... Seems like the stock behavior is about a 1/16" gap, if that.

-mof

#400 5 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Came to the conclusion that I'd need new bases in order to update the springs, and new bracket in order to reverse the coil.

If your bracket does not have the notch to match the coil indexing pin, just make a notch with a small Rat Tail File or Dremel.

It will take you longer to find the file than to make the notch.

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