VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

6 years ago



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  • 385 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 34 minutes ago by jlbintn
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There are 2277 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 46.
#2201 3 months ago

I'm slowly working through this thread again. I'm getting held up on a No Fear where no matter what I do the flipper sticks up in game.
Symptoms:
When engaged stays up until you flip the right flipper or tap it gently
Will not stick by hand

What I've done:
All new everything (coil, rebuild kit, sleeve, bushing, bat, EOS)
Switched the flipper PCBs in the cabinet. same problem.

I think something is magnetize but I don't know how to track that down.

#2202 3 months ago
Quoted from cocomonkeh:

All new everything (coil, rebuild kit, sleeve, bushing, bat, EOS)
Switched the flipper PCBs in the cabinet. same problem.

Get the flipper stuck, now turn power off to the game. Is the flipper still stuck?
-

Can you pull the flipper up vertically a mm or so? There has to be some play.

-

Check that the coil stop is SQUARE to the base.

Take the stop off, put it on dead flat surface like a table saw. Use a 123 block or framing square to check if the back of the stop bracket is a perfect 90*

If it's not, bend it in a vise until it's perfect.

When you re-assemble the base plate, again make sure everything is square by pushing the brackets forward as you tighten.

-

Closely examine the coil plunger for scratches or worn patch.

Replace coil sleeve again (there is much variation among them).

#2203 3 months ago
Quoted from cocomonkeh:

I think something is magnetize but I don't know how to track that down.

See if the loose plunger can lift the loose coil stop off the table.

#2204 3 months ago

I’ll try those things. It does stay up when off which was my first hint to check mechanics. There is some play and everything is square (I am going to try a new stop tonight as well).
The thing that really stands out to me is it won’t stick when I move it manually when every other stuck flipper I’ve had I can recreate by hand.
This is the first of about a dozen rebuild and It’s never gotten to this point.

1 week later
#2205 3 months ago

Hey Vid. Learning a lot from this guide. I'm restoring a Sorcerer and in addition to re-capping the PS, I also want to re-cap the flipper PS. I noticed earlier in this thread you said to look at the power wiring page to get the value of the caps for my game. I'm including pics of what I found in the schematics, plus what I found online as replacements. Just wanted to double check with your expertise before ordering. Thanks!

Yopp
FR01 (resized).JPG
FR02 (resized).JPG
FR03 (resized).JPG

#2206 3 months ago

Rookie owner seeks advice.

I have owned The Addams Family game for a month now, facing my second repair and first on flippers. I have no previous experience so please bear with me if I am asking stupid questions.

My right flipper suddenly went very weak. When I hold the flipper button and it is up, it is as strong as the other. But if I add resistance in the stroke it just retreats with the weight of the ball.

I read the basic sections of this brilliant post and some additional sections and checked the potential culprits. I found the plunger, coil sleeve, coil stop and EOS switch almost brand new, which I guess rules them out? The EOS makes contact just before end of stroke, similar to the left, and I guess that is ok too? What I DID find was some sewere play (rocking 2-3 mm) in the flipper and given the fact that it is strong in end position, I conclude the blame lies on the flipper bushing and I just put in basket to order new ones.

My main question now is: Can I expect adding new flipper bushing solves the problem or is there something else I should check (coil or...)?

Thank you in advance to all friendly people in here.

TAF flipper too much play (resized).jpg
#2207 3 months ago

I had a weak flipper recently and it turned out one of the diodes on the coil was bad (2 diodes on each coil in F-14)

#2208 3 months ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

I'm including pics of what I found in the schematics, plus what I found online as replacements. Just wanted to double check with your expertise before ordering. Thanks!

You can use higher voltage parts (if available), so they'll last longer under the lower voltage.

#2209 3 months ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

My main question now is: Can I expect adding new flipper bushing solves the problem or is there something else I should check (coil or...)?

If the bushing is worn out (or cracked) that will tighten up your play.

BUT honestly, in a $7k game, just go ahead and rebuild both flippers yourself right now.

You never know if the past owners used the correct parts, if the flipper bat is cracked, if they bothered to replace the sleeves, if they got rid of the conical spring (this tells you if they were hacks or pros)......you get the idea.

Best $25 you'll ever spend.

#2210 3 months ago

1976 Fireball home edition. How to make the flipper strength more powerful? Any suggestions other than a complete rebuild?

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#2211 3 months ago
Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

I had a weak flipper recently and it turned out one of the diodes on the coil was bad (2 diodes on each coil in F-14)

Thanks, I'll try switching coils to se if problem moves to left flipper.

#2212 3 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If the bushing is worn out (or cracked) that will tighten up your play.
BUT honestly, in a $7k game, just go ahead and rebuild both flippers yourself right now.
You never know if the past owners used the correct parts, if the flipper bat is cracked, if they bothered to replace the sleeves, if they got rid of the conical spring (this tells you if they were hacks or pros)......you get the idea.
Best $25 you'll ever spend.

I get the idea thank you, and will order full rebuild kit. During shipping time, I will try to switch coils to see if problem moves to the left. Apart from solving the problem I am eager to learn what is wrong to give me a better understanding of how it all works - for future use.

#2213 3 months ago
Quoted from PinRob:

1976 Fireball home edition. How to make the flipper strength more powerful? Any suggestions other than a complete rebuild?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Are the wires properly connected to the flipper coil and the end-of-stroke switch? Is the end of stroke switch clean and correctly adjusted? Has the flipper assembly been rebuilt yet?

#2214 3 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Are the wires properly connected to the flipper coil and the end-of-stroke switch? Is the end of stroke switch clean and correctly adjusted? Has the flipper assembly been rebuilt yet?

Yes to all but flipper rebuild. Don’t even think it needs one to be honest. Just wanted to know other options before I throw 50 at flipper rebuild kits

#2215 3 months ago
Quoted from PinRob:

1976 Fireball home edition. How to make the flipper strength more powerful? Any suggestions other than a complete rebuild?

Have you taken them apart and looked and the coil sleeves and bushing? Those can wear and cause binding you may not be able to see without a proper inspection.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the lug side of the coil should NOT be on the coil stop side. Look at one of the first pages of this thread....

#2216 3 months ago
Quoted from Wmsfan:

Have you taken them apart and looked and the coil sleeves and bushing? Those can wear and cause binding you may not be able to see without a proper inspection.
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the lug side of the coil should NOT be on the coil stop side. Look at one of the first pages of this thread....

Yes I’ve taken them apart, everything cleaned and polished. This is a home model that hasn’t seen a lot of play compared to other pins of this age. I know about the coil lugs facing the other way but that isn’t making the flippers weak.

#2217 3 months ago

Show us a picture of the EOS gap when the flipper is engaged.

#2218 3 months ago

Better now, cleaned contacts on flipper buttons and flipper switches

#2219 3 months ago

Noticed the fish paper has broken off on one switch. Does anyone know any cheap places to get some so I could make a new piece?

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#2221 3 months ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

Thanks, I'll try switching coils to se if problem moves to left flipper.

I tried switching flippers, and the problem moved to the left flipper. I did not unsolder though, but at least now I know that I must troubleshoot an electrical issue.

#2222 89 days ago

So, I'm restoring a Game Plan Agents 777 and would like to upgrade the flipper mechs to Williams style. Problem: the flipper coils on this game are real small, the same length as the coils in the pop bumpers or slings. So, it would seem I can only do this the way I intended if I also change the coils, but they would have to be something compatible. The manual with this game is a total mess and I haven't been able to sleuth out what value the coils are.
Alternatively, I could simply rebuild these flippers with the original parts, if such a kit exists. I've only ever done Williams games in the past so I don't know what other configuration would be compatible. Advice?

#2223 88 days ago

Just want to chime in with my own experience. A flipper on a Williams system 11 can chatter or machine gun if you reverse the wires on the primary coil. I soldered my Pinbot left flipper primary coil backward and the symptoms were a huge spark from the EOS contact and occasional chatter at the end of stroke. The holding coil worked fine.

#2224 88 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

So, I'm restoring a Game Plan Agents 777 and would like to upgrade the flipper mechs to Williams style. Problem: the flipper coils on this game are real small, the same length as the coils in the pop bumpers or slings. So, it would seem I can only do this the way I intended if I also change the coils, but they would have to be something compatible. The manual with this game is a total mess and I haven't been able to sleuth out what value the coils are.
Alternatively, I could simply rebuild these flippers with the original parts, if such a kit exists. I've only ever done Williams games in the past so I don't know what other configuration would be compatible. Advice?

Are yours original?

What voltage is at your coils?

1 week later
#2225 76 days ago

VID
I am sure this has been answered before and I think I may have asked before as well, But I need to know on the EOS switch the middle lug on the coil, does that wire go to the short blade or the long blade? I have seen it both ways and was not sure if there is a right or wrong way and why. The game I am doing at present has three flippers and two are one way and the third is not. Wanted to stay consistent.
Mike

#2226 75 days ago
Quoted from packie1:

VID
I am sure this has been answered before and I think I may have asked before as well, But I need to know on the EOS switch the middle lug on the coil, does that wire go to the short blade or the long blade? I have seen it both ways and was not sure if there is a right or wrong way and why. The game I am doing at present has three flippers and two are one way and the third is not. Wanted to stay consistent.
Mike

It doesn't matter. I usually go whichever way leads to the wires sitting nicer with less twists/crossing, etc.

#2227 73 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Are yours original?
What voltage is at your coils?

Yes, they are original, they are a shorter coil than on flippers I'm accustomed to.
I didn't check the voltage.

Easy answer: use classic Stern rebuild kit instead. Practically identical. I will likely switch to outboard springs as the springs in the kit are pretty small; they work, but the flipper kind of bounces upon return to its resting position. Learn something new on every project...

#2228 69 days ago

Hey vid1900 thanks so very much for creating this tutorial. After reading it numerous times i think my brain has turned to mush.

I have 2 System 11s that i want to update: 1st is an F14 Tomcat and the 2nd a Pin-bot.

I saw the image you posted that showed the full flipper assembly you can order from Pinball life and that to me seems the way to go! I would rather spend the money and order all new parts to be 100% certain they work well. I save every penny to buy my pins and want to make sure they work well so am willing to spend the extra money on repairs when required.

If I order 2 of each (Left & Right) will those assemblies work for both my machines? Thanks again and sorry to ask a question that's probably been answered 20 times.

flip (resized).jpg
#2229 69 days ago

^ remember that many F14s were shipped from the factory with the wrong coils on the top flippers.

BUT also keep in mind that coils don't wear out. If you already have the correct coils, there is no sense in ordering new ones.

#2230 69 days ago

Hey Vid I have a flipper mod question. I’m currently restoring a Sorcerer and I feel that the top flipper coil is too strong (airball City!). Any suggestions on making the flipper a little weaker?

#2231 69 days ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

Hey Vid I have a flipper mod question. I’m currently restoring a Sorcerer and I feel that the top flipper coil is too strong (airball City!). Any suggestions on making the flipper a little weaker?

Open the EOS Switch gap more.

The sooner it opens, the weaker the flip

#2232 69 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Open the EOS Switch gap more.
The sooner it opens, the weaker the flip

Thanks. I had a feeling that might help, but then I thought “nah, nothing in Pinball is that simple.”

#2233 69 days ago

So those assemblies will work for me then,?

Quoted from vid1900:

^ remember that many F14s were shipped from the factory with the wrong coils on the top flippers.
BUT also keep in mind that coils don't wear out. If you already have the correct coils, there is no sense in ordering new ones.

#2234 68 days ago
Quoted from CoitusMysterioso:

So those assemblies will work for me then,?

I can't look up anything while I'm driving.

Get this assembly:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773618

...and just make sure you substitute the proper coils - you should be all set.

#2235 68 days ago

Thanks Vid. Much appreciated.

Found this when I checked out the flipper coils on my Pinbot. Looks like someone removed one of the diodes on the right flipper coil. Left mech has same coil and both diodes.

Makes no sense to me. Is there a reason someone would do this? Doesnt matter to me as I plan on ordering all new parts I was just wondering.

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#2236 68 days ago
Quoted from CoitusMysterioso:

Looks like someone removed one of the diodes on the right flipper coil. Left mech has same coil and both diodes.

Makes no sense to me. Is there a reason someone would do this? Doesnt matter to me as I plan on ordering all new parts I was just wondering.

The old coils that originally came with the game only had a single diode, so someone thought they should cut one off.

The new coils are going to have 2 diodes, and that's fine, don't cut any.

Here is the post that shows you what to buy for the new coils:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/2#post-453690

2 weeks later
#2237 53 days ago

I have rebuilt all 4 flippers on my Gottlieb Star Race. I still have problems making the figure 8 loop at the top left corner. The current flipper coils are A-17875, is there a replacement coil with a little more "umph" ?

2 weeks later
#2238 36 days ago

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Vid, is your picture flipped or rotated?

Reason I ask is that I am having a heating issue with an upper flipper coil on my D&D machine. The coils on all three of my flippers are A-24-570/34-3600's. Not the PinCoil brand. I have never had to deal with the lower flippers. The upper flipper coil is new, installed a couple of months ago due to a similar over-heat issue, which at that time actually did blow the fuse (more on that a bit further down in this post). I suspect wiring, but as I look at it, oriented in the same manner as your picture shows, the bands are reversed on the diodes relative to your picture, as you can see here

208_0808 (resized).JPG

I'm trying not to overthink this, and I hope I am being somewhat clearer than mud but it is perplexing. And I am beginning to wonder whether it is wired properly, although color wise, the other two flippers and the respective wires are soldered to the coils in the same orientation as the upper flipper.

But only that upper flipper is getting hot. No other coil on the game, not one, even gets warm under extended play. Or if they do, by the time I lift the playfield to check them they have cooled off. The upper coil does not cool off quickly. It's almost as though there is a continuous current feed.

It got so hot last night that the game threw a fuse message on the display and stopped. After checking all of the fuses visually and with a DMM, not one fuse in the backbox or under the playfield was bad. Power off brought the game back up in a ready to play status.

Anyway, the thick/thin 43 volt tab looks like it's in the middle, the thin is definitely as your picture displays, and the thick wire is on the left. Does that sound right? I have looked and looked and looked, and I can not see any indication that the thick/thin wires on these coils are oriented as your picture shows.

Oh btw, disregard that chewed up wire, I did that last night (slipped with the iron in my hand) when I put a new switch in. It was getting late and I called it for the night. That wire is going to be replaced today.

#2239 36 days ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

[quoted image]
Vid, is your picture flipped or rotated?
Reason I ask is that I am having a heating issue with an upper flipper coil on my D&D machine. The coils on all three of my flippers are A-24-570/34-3600's. Not the PinCoil brand. I have never had to deal with the lower flippers. The upper flipper coil is new, installed a couple of months ago due to a similar over-heat issue, which at that time actually did blow the fuse (more on that a bit further down in this post). I suspect wiring, but as I look at it, oriented in the same manner as your picture shows, the bands are reversed on the diodes relative to your picture, as you can see here
[quoted image]
I'm trying not to overthink this, and I hope I am being somewhat clearer than mud but it is perplexing. And I am beginning to wonder whether it is wired properly, although color wise, the other two flippers and the respective wires are soldered to the coils in the same orientation as the upper flipper.
But only that upper flipper is getting hot. No other coil on the game, not one, even gets warm under extended play. Or if they do, by the time I lift the playfield to check them they have cooled off. The upper coil does not cool off quickly. It's almost as though there is a continuous current feed.
It got so hot last night that the game threw a fuse message on the display and stopped. After checking all of the fuses visually and with a DMM, not one fuse in the backbox or under the playfield was bad. Power off brought the game back up in a ready to play status.
Anyway, the thick/thin 43 volt tab looks like it's in the middle, the thin is definitely as your picture displays, and the thick wire is on the left. Does that sound right? I have looked and looked and looked, and I can not see any indication that the thick/thin wires on these coils are oriented as your picture shows.
Oh btw, disregard that chewed up wire, I did that last night (slipped with the iron in my hand) when I put a new switch in. It was getting late and I called it for the night. That wire is going to be replaced today.

Looks like your diodes are reversed from the picture, and notice that your thin, thick, and dual wire terminals are not in the same location.

#2240 36 days ago

Is the eos switch supposed to be normally open? Looks like it’s not making contact in that pic.

#2241 35 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Is the eos switch supposed to be normally open? Looks like it’s not making contact in that pic.

It won't fire if it's closed. I thought the same thing. When I put that switch in last night, it was closed, it's a brand new switch. So I spaced it a bit, the old one was really spaced, and didn't even make contact when it fired :O

Anyway, here is a picture of the new wiring just completed. As I stated, all three flippers are wired the same way color-wise, save the replacement red wire I just put on.

208_0809 (resized).JPG

Here is a picture of another flipper coil I have. As you can see, it's the same configuration as the flippers in D&D
208_0810 (resized).JPG

#2242 35 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Looks like your diodes are reversed from the picture, and notice that your thin, thick, and dual wire terminals are not in the same location.

Indeed. And based on the configuration being the same as that spare pincoil picture I posted, the +43 terminal is at the thin wire on the right. And the thick and thin wire is on the middle lug :O

eta for Chuckwurt

As I understand upper flipper configurations, the EOS is normally closed, but my upper flipper will not fire if the switch is closed. So I'm really beginning to think: Houston, I have a situation

#2243 35 days ago

Just as an FYI, and with no intent to clog this thread with off-topic stuff, I am not ruling out an issue with my 6803 MPU board. I have another issue with XPIN's not displaying on this machine, except in test mode, while the original displays are working fine. I have not tracked down that problem, but maybe both issues originate somewhere from the backbox and not under the playfield. Or maybe not. I just don't know atm.

#2244 35 days ago

The EOS needs to be closed when the flipper is at rest. You must have something wired wrong. CPU can't effect the flippers.

#2245 35 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

The EOS needs to be closed when the flipper is at rest. You must have something wired wrong. CPU can't effect the flippers.

I should have worded that last sentence a bit better than I did. Sorry about that. Anyway, after lifting the playfield and examining the lower flipper wiring, the upper flipper, as you stated, was wired incorrectly.

It's a double leaf setup on the lower flipper and I had the upper switch wired emulating the wrong leaf in the lower switch configuration. That's where I made my mistake.

It now works properly, that being the coil fires when it's in resting position, which is closed.

It still heated up though, but maybe that's normal. I'm just not sure why it would heat up as much as it did last night, and get a blown fuse warning, but not actually blow any fuse. As I said, when this same issue occurred last summer, I got that same message and it did blow the fuse. First thing I did then was to turn it off and then turn it back on. However, unlike last night, the fuse warning message did not go away nor would the game play.

That incident last summer also left a quite obvious electrical burning smell, which ended up being the old coil that this one replaced.

So, I am still not sure that I have resolved that particular issue, but at least the wiring is corrected.

#2246 35 days ago

Can you post a picture of your new wiring?

#2247 35 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Can you post a picture of your new wiring?

I've got it locked down and closed now, sitting in attract mode. It makes a nice night light when not being played, in that room. I had planned to take shots of all three flipper setups tomorrow, so look for them then.

eta

if you go back up a couple of posts, you'll see what the wiring looked like prior to the change I just made. That red wire runs to the middle leaf on the switch, and the orange wire in the background now runs to the 43 volt lug with the brown wire. Prior to that it was on the low/ground lug, on the left. It's not the best picture, but it will give you an idea of what I was talking about.

I'll post better pics tomorrow.

#2248 35 days ago

right flipper
208_0812 (resized).JPG

upper right flipper
208_0814 (resized).JPG

left flipper
208_0813 (resized).JPG

1 week later
#2249 24 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Install your new parallel coil and sleeve. Remember that the lugs DO NOT go next to the coil stop.
The wire you labeled 50v power goes to the outside lug with the Banded Diode (the thick and thin coil wires).
The center lug (with the thick coil wire) goes to your EOS Switch .
The outside lug with the Unbanded Diode (the thin coil wire) goes to the EOS Switch and the power return wire.
The capacitor goes to both sides of the EOS Switch. The capacitor has no polarity, so either leg can go to either side of the switch.
[quoted image]

Does it matter which eos wire goes to which lug as long as you have one wire going to the center lug and one to the power return lug?

#2250 20 days ago

If I remove the wrappers from Flipper coils, or any coils for that matter, can I soak them in a cleaner?

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