(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#701 4 years ago

Now in your pic it looks like the leafs are at 1/8. I have the contact points at 1/8 so this could be the cause then?

#702 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make the EOS Switch gap a little smaller. In your pics, it looks too large.
Each leaf of the switch much be tensioned so they spring towards each other. If they weakly touch, the flippers will be weak.

Vid coached me on this a few times early on...

Next time you rotate a flipper bat to check your EOS gap, go really SLOW -- look to SEE that BOTH leaves move (not just the one you are moving with the lever.) You need to be sure that the TENSION of the two leaves touching together is preventing a LITTLE BIT of motion.

If the other leaf doesn't move at ALL when you lever the other one away, then add a little more tension into the system.

-mof

#703 4 years ago

Just got done flipping around the coils. Properly adjusted the eos. It's much better. Now I need to play another stock one to compare. Still thinking they should be a little stronger than they are. But overall big improvement. Also got flippers aligned. Pretty happy for my first rebuild

#704 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Vid coached me on this a few times early on...
Next time you rotate a flipper bat to check your EOS gap, go really SLOW -- look to SEE that BOTH leaves move (not just the one you are moving with the lever.) You need to be sure that the TENSION of the two leaves touching together is preventing a LITTLE BIT of motion.
If the other leaf doesn't move at ALL when you lever the other one away, then add a little more tension into the system.
-mof

We got movement!!!! Lol thanks for the tip mof I wasn't paying attention to that

#705 4 years ago

Congrats on your downward spiral into being a pintech!

#706 4 years ago

Vid, the 1/8" gap should be between the contacts, right?

#707 4 years ago

If you have the low profile contacts, you can just measure between the leafs, if you have the large contacts, then gap between the contact faces themselves.

#708 4 years ago

Ok, thanks.

#709 4 years ago

I'm about to rebuild the flippers on my BSD since they seem a bit weak. With regards to the spring, can I use a newer Stern spring which is the same size but tighter?

Also, if I wanted to replace the switch at the actual flipper buttons, which part would I want to order and what size gap is ideal?

Thanks!

#710 4 years ago

Classic Bally Early Solid State Flippers

============================

The early Bally SS flippers were a pretty dependable design, so often when you buy a game, you will find all the parts completely worn out and crazy sloppy.

Here we will rebuild this unit, improving the EOS Switch (End Of Stroke Switch) and installing the coil in a more reliable position.

Label your wires and unsolder the 3 wires on the coils. Loosen the 2 set screws on the crank to release the flipper bats, and finally remove the 4 baseplate screws to release the mech from the playfield.

I'll assume you have bought the Pinball Resource rebuild kit for the rest of this guide:

http://pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP03

IMG_0855.jpg

#711 4 years ago

The Coil Stop gets pulverized into powdered metal, resulting in all that black metal dust you find all around the coils in your machine.

2.jpg

#712 4 years ago

Here you can see how much wear has occurred to this Coil Stop.

The more the Coil Stop wears, the deeper the plunger enters into the coil.

The deeper the plunger goes into the coil, the longer the flipper stroke.

-

Often people get used to the super long flipper stroke of a worn out mech, and then when they rebuild the mechs to their proper function, they are surprised by the now more limited stroke.

A great many people have never experienced a Classic Bally with properly functioning flippers.

3.jpg

#713 4 years ago

Just like the Coil Stop, here you can see that the worn out Plunger has also lost a lot of metal; and of course, that affects the length of the flipper stroke too.

The worn out link now has elongated holes for the Crank and Plunger. This results in lots of slop and power loss.

4.jpg

#714 4 years ago

Reserved

#715 4 years ago

An E-Clip locks the Link to the Crank. These are often missing entirely on old games, resulting in yet more slop in the action.

An E-Clip is a type of spring clip. Be careful removing and installing them, as they will literally spring off and be lost forever in your shop.

If you don't have an E-Clip tool, gently pry it loose with a small screwdriver. Have your free hand ready to block it, in case it tries to spring away.

7.jpg

#716 4 years ago

Remember there is a Left and Right Crank that matches the Left and Right Baseplate.

8.jpg

#717 4 years ago

The Coil has a Nylon Sleeve that the plunger runs inside of.

Never try to clean a Sleeve, just throw it away.

They are only .40 cents, and you can never get all the black imbedded metal particles out of them, no matter what technique you use. Your time is worth more than .40 cents, so to the garbage the old ones go...

You are going to install the coil with the solder tabs AWAY from the Coil Stop, so make sure you insert the Coil Sleeve as shown.

6.jpg

#718 4 years ago

The new EOS Switch looks a lot different than your old one.

The old one had an extra leaf and a plastic barrel insulator.

The new one is much lower profile and has a piece of insulating paper called "Fishpaper".

Your kit does not come with new Switch screws, so you will quickly find out that your old ones are now way too long.

5.jpg

#719 4 years ago

If you have some shorter Switch screws #5-40, you can skip the following step.

With a small standard screwdriver, pry apart a few layers of the old EOS Switch insulators.

The old EOS Switch is probably so worn and burnt that you surly don't have to feel bad cannibalizing it.

17.jpg

Here you can see that the old spacers have kept the mounting screws safely away from shorting out the coil.

Remember that the coil moves and vibrates - keep a good amount of space between it and the screws.
19.jpg

#720 4 years ago

Back in Bally school, they used to tell us that it was important to keep the EOS Switch isolated from the mechs in those early SS games. Of course, 50% of all used games are all hacked up and are using uninsulated switches, apparently without damage to any circuitry.

Even though it may be unnecessary, most techs still want the insulator on the switch.

The other issue is that there is a better EOS Switch (#03-7811 also from PBR) in the Williams style.

This switch has a helper spring leaf that gives a tighter electrical connection, and thus stronger flippers.

The Williams style switch does not have an insulator, so we will add one.

11.jpg

You can buy a pre-cut Fishpaper switch insulator from PBR for .30 cents, or because you forgot to order them, you can steal them from the kit switch.

Pry open the switch with a small screwdriver or fingernail.

12.jpg

#721 4 years ago

Here you see that the Fishpaper exactly fits the Williams switch.

13.jpg

#722 4 years ago

14.jpg
#723 4 years ago

The Bushing protects the playfield from flipper drag, and is important in keeping the entire mech feeling tight.

Don't over-tighten the screws, or the plastic will break about a month or so latter.

9.jpg

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#724 4 years ago

It is always easier to assemble the mech on the benchtop.

You can use a #2 Philips screwdriver as a makeshift flipper shaft while you assemble.

Remember, we are reversing the coil so the tabs are AWAY from the Coil Stop. This helps keep the fine coil wires from breaking, resulting in a coil that 'machine guns'.

Leave some slack in the wires that connect the coil to the EOS Switch. Remember that the coil vibrates, and we don't want to stress the solder lugs.

15.jpg

#725 4 years ago

Press the plunger down all the way till it stops with your finger, and make sure the switch gap opens to EXACTLY 1/8" (3.2 mm). Not more, not less.

You may have to fiddle with the leafs to get them strongly touching when relaxed and 1/8" gap when plunged, but it is a lot easier to do on the bench than installed in the game. You will get the hang of it, take your time and get this exactly right.

As the gap opens, the stationary half of the switch leaf should move towards the other contact. Literally the two contacts should always spring towards each other, not just limply touch.

If your flippers don't hit absolutely hard when you power up the game again, 99% of the time you somehow messed up the EOS gap, and the contacts are not touching with enough force.

You can jumper the two leaves of the switch together with alligator clips as a test when diagnosing weak flippers, if the flipper now kicks like a mule, the switch is not properly making contact, is dirty, or is broken.....at least you know where the problem lies.

Make sure you install the left and right mechs back onto their proper sides and you are ready to play your game how the designer intended it to play.

16.jpg

#726 4 years ago

Vid-
We could really use a Alvin G. flipper rebuild section!!!!!
Love your guides! Were do you find the time to make these?

#727 4 years ago
Quoted from ryan1234:

We could really use a Alvin G. flipper rebuild section!!!!!

Next time I work on an Ali G, I'll shoot some pics.

Quoted from ryan1234:

Were do you find the time to make these?

Most nights I'm trapped in a hotel room with popcorn ceilings.

#728 4 years ago

This topic just keeps going! And just when I thought I was done with it...

So I just got a Diner. I didn't like that the flippers seemed not as strong as they should be (bounce passes didn't work very well, felt a bit sloppy compared to my other pins). Simple, I thought, they need to bushings. So you may as well just redo the whole thing while you're in there, of course. Bought a new set of flipper rebuilds and went to town.

I've done this 6 times already before Diner - 4 flippers on F-14 and the two on Pinbot. So I feel like I've kind of got it down by now. I rebuilt these in record time, under an hour each. Set the EOS gaps like they're supposed to be, made sure there's still some spring tension when they're closed. New capacitors, new bushings, new everything except the base plates, which appear to be replacements from the originals as they are already bored for the fliptronic springs. Upgraded to the springs, just like on my other games.

Hmm. Things were somewhat improved, bounce passes work now. But there's something different on this game. There's just a meatier, more solid feel to the flippers on Pinbot and F-14. I can't figure out what in the world could be making that difference. The correct coils are in the game. I've tightened the flipper bats in the prescribed manner, using a cut out credit card as a spacer. What gives?!

#729 4 years ago

In addition...the right ramp shot on Diner feels underpowered every time I hit it. Can't make a good solid cup shot no matter what. Have tweaked flipper position (to make sure it's getting a full stroke) and played with playfield pitch (I had it extra jacked, now back down to ~6.5/7degrees).

Going only slightly nuts...

#730 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

There's just a meatier, more solid feel to the flippers on Pinbot and F-14. I can't figure out what in the world could be making that difference.

Like I often recommend for flipper troubleshooting, jumper the leaves of the EOS together with some alligator clips and see if the flippers improve.
'

#731 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Like I often recommend for flipper troubleshooting, jumper the leaves of the EOS together with some alligator clips and see if the flippers improve.
'

Is that to isolate whether "the contact of the pads" is reducing power?
-mof

#732 4 years ago

I guess I don't get it...but I don't want to ask you to repeat yourself. Is this tip elsewhere in the thread? (or are you pulling my leg and I'm just dense?)

#733 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

As for the lugs by the stop. I will try to flip them but don't think I have long enough wire to.

Don't be afraid to simply replace the wires if the original ones are too short (sometimes the wires are just too damn short to make it to the lugs once you flip the solenoid around).
I suppose ideally you'd be replacing them with wires of the same insulation color...but you can make a note of it in your exhaustive maintenance log if you have to switch to green wires from blue or whatever.

#734 4 years ago

If you "short" the switch contacts together with a pair of clips, you will instantly know if the EOS is the trouble or not.

Even a new switch can be a piece of crap:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/9#post-1495725

#735 4 years ago

Well, I'll be damned.

If memory serves...last rebuild kits I got came from Pinball Life, whereas these came from Marco. Not interested in dissing one supplier in favor of another at all, but I'll try the alligator clip test and see. If the switches are duds, I'll be sure to say something to Marco (and order replacements from Terry...)

I'm a real stickler for good flipper power, and it makes me ill when I visit people who have beautiful games with sloppy action. I don't want to give up! My games will have proper oomph, dammit!

#736 4 years ago

An easier way to test is just to check the resistance across the EOS switch. Power off, meter set to ohms, one lead to each EOS connector (wire). If more than half an ohm, you need to either clean the contacts (400 grit sandpaper works) or you need to increase tension on the contacts.

Many new high power EOS switches come with a protective coating on the contacts. Best to check for this with the meter before installing. As mentioned above, 400 grit sandpaper will remove the coating. Occasionally the leafs won't be tensioned properly. Practically no resistance when you hold the contacts together, lots of resistance with no added tension. Use needlenose pliers or a switch tool to slightly bend one leaf to add tension. Get it under half an ohm outside the games, then install it.

-1
#737 4 years ago

Good tip. I try to get the switch tension dialed in pretty nicely - 1/8" gap when open, and I like to see the stationary leaf and the tensioner move just a bit when the switch closes, so I know they're making solid contact. But I will check it out with the multimeter.

Quoted from phishrace:

Get it under half an ohm outside the games, then install it.

^^Not clear on this^^ I'd rather not remove the whole deal all over again?

#738 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

^^Not clear on this^^ I'd rather not remove the whole deal all over again?

For future reference. You should be able to get yours going in the game.

#739 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I can't figure out what in the world could be making that difference. The correct coils are in the game. I've tightened the flipper bats in the prescribed manner, using a cut out credit card as a spacer. What gives?

Could the flipper cabinet switches be burned and crusted a bit causing some resistance resulting in the loss of power?

#740 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Could the flipper cabinet switches be burned and crusted a bit causing some resistance resulting in the loss of power?

Could be, especially if they were already weak before the rebuild.

#741 4 years ago

Flipper cabinet switches! That's a new angle. I never would've even considered that, but it certainly makes sense. I feel another Pinball Life order coming on...

#742 4 years ago

What's the best cabinet switch for something like BSD?

#743 4 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

What's the best cabinet switch for something like BSD?

I think you have optic sensors, not switches on that game, or has it be hacked?

#744 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I think you have optic sensors, not switches on that game, or has it be hacked?

Aw crap... am I going to have to join the "hacks" thread? Is this an easy fix if it's not supposed to be this way? And by easy I mean, can the parts be purchased and soldered in? And is there a thread to show me what wires to attach where? I hate to clog up this thread with this.
rightswitch.jpgleftswitch.jpg

#745 4 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

Aw crap... am I going to have to join the "hacks" thread? Is this an easy fix if it's not supposed to be this way? And by easy I mean, can the parts be purchased and soldered in? And is there a thread to show me what wires to attach where? I hate to clog up this thread with this.

rightswitch.jpg 266 KB

leftswitch.jpg 299 KB

Yeah, that's been hacked. You can even see the original opto board screw mounts.

#746 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Yeah, that's been hacked. You can even see the original opto board screw mounts.

Yeah, that seems about right on this machine. lol

I'm guessing the connector seen in the shot of the right flipper plugged into something related to the real flipper button?

Well, if parts are available, I might as well try to make it right. Got the flipper rebuild kit, didn't know I'd have to rebuild the buttons too. lol

#747 4 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

Yeah, that seems about right on this machine. lol
I'm guessing the connector seen in the shot of the right flipper plugged into something related to the real flipper button?
Well, if parts are available, I might as well try to make it right. Got the flipper rebuild kit, didn't know I'd have to rebuild the buttons too. lol

Uh.. actually, no. I have no clue what that connector is. It *should* be a .. 6-pin (maybe 7 with key? Going off of memory here..) IDC .100" connector. For both sides.

#748 4 years ago

lol Well what you described is not anywhere. I guess why fix something right when you can chop it out and make it work cheaper.

#749 4 years ago

As seen here, I believe.

http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/wpc_ufb.html

Post edited by aobrien5: fix link

#750 4 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

I hate to clog up this thread with this.

Actually, this IS the proper place to put hacks and fixes.

You can keep it as is, and we can just clean the contacts on the switches and adjust the contact point.

Or if you decide to put it back original, this is the perfect place to show your step by restoration.

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