(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

11 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #6 Get the right EOS switch Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Make System 11 Flippers Feel Tight Like Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #88 Replace Old Series Coils With New Parallel Coils Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #140 Udate Old Solid State Flippers Into Fliptronic Style Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #292 List of games with longer/shorter flipper travel Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #294 Rebuilding 1967-1979 Flippers Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #390 Coil stop differences between system 11 and Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #520 Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)


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190
#1 11 years ago

Just got back from a collector's house and 75% of his flippers were weak. Games looked good and clean, but he had no idea how to set up his flippers. There were a lot of terrible flippers at the Michigan Pinball Expo a few months ago, too. Finally, NJGecko wanted to know how to upgrade his System 11 flippers to the newer springs of the Fliptronic era.

Some of this is going to be old hat to the more experienced collectors, but clearly there are a lot of people who need a crash course in the basics:

GET THE RIGHT EOS SWITCH (p1)

MAKE SYSTEM 11 FLIPPERS FEEL TIGHT LIKE FLIPTRONIC (p1)

REPLACE OLD SERIES COILS WITH NEW PARALLEL COILS (p2)

UDATE OLD SOLID STATE FLIPPERS INTO FLIPTRONIC STYLE (p3)

90s GAMES, WHICH COIL STOPS? (p6)

REBUILDING WILLIAMS 1967-1979 (p6)

SYS11 VS. FLIPTRONIC COIL STOPS (p8)

ODD WEAK FLIPPER SERVICE CALL (p9)

REBUILDING BALLY LINEAR FLIPPERS (p11)

FLIPPER BAT LOOSE, NO MATTER HOW TIGHT CLAMP IS (p12)

CLASSIC BALLY - EARLY SOLID STATE FLIPPERS (p15)

INSTALLING WILLIAMS WPC FLIPPERS IN A CLASSIC BALLY or CLASSIC STERN (p27)

57
#2 11 years ago

First, what is going to be wrong with your flippers? If you never rebuilt them, probably everything!

The plunger will be worn, mushroomed at the tip, and have a lot of play in the links.

Your return spring will be limp (or if it is a Sys 11, probably broken).

Your EOS (End Of Stroke) switch will be pitted and corroded.

Your Coil Stop will be concave, causing the plunger to become mushroomed.

Your Coil Sleeve will be cracked or worn.

Your coils might well be the incorrect ones.

USUAL-SUSPECTS.jpgUSUAL-SUSPECTS.jpg

51
#3 11 years ago

The Coil Plunger needs to be smooth so it does not drag in the Coil Sleeve.

A common problem is that the tip will mushroom and bind in the sleeve. This will create drag or seize the flipper entirely.

Another problem is that if the Coil Bracket ever became loose, or a plunger spring ever broke, it can chew up the Plunger. This of course leads to the Coil Sleeve becoming chewed up.

mush.jpgmush.jpg

PLUNGER.jpgPLUNGER.jpg

45
#4 11 years ago

The EOS Switch needs to make solid electrical contact, or the flipper will be very weak.

If the contacts are all pitted and corroded, you can't get good contact.

If the gap between the contacts is not correct, you will have weak flippers (more on this latter).

PITTED-SWITCH.jpgPITTED-SWITCH.jpg

41
#5 11 years ago

The Coil Stop takes a constant beating. As the plunger hammers away, it becomes concave and helps shape the plunger into the dreaded mushroom shape.

COIL-STOP.jpgCOIL-STOP.jpg

42
#6 11 years ago

So, how do we fix all these common problems? We throw all that junk away and get a rebuild kit.

I know, there are people who file the mushroomed tips, clean dirty sleeves and re-stretch springs, but the flippers are the most important part of the whole game. You spent thousands of dollars on your game and now you are going to try and save $20 on a kit??? Your game deserves to play at factory (or better) condition.

You can get a kit from Pinball Life, or any other mail order place. Don't expect to get a genuine Bally/Williams kit in the little plastic box. Nowadays, the patents have run out, so you get an overseas made kit.

If you have a System 11 game, get the newer (Williams reference #A-13524-8) kit anyway. It will have the much desired stronger return spring, and only requires a small (one time) modification to install it. Also get a pair of high voltage EOS switches ( Williams reference #03-7811) as the ones included in the kit are for low voltage games:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=172

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=58

Before you order, check page 2 of your owner's manual and make sure that the correct flipper coils required for your game are installed. 50% chance if your game was once on route, at least one of them will be wrong. Sometimes the wrong coils were installed at the factory (like many F-14 Tomcats), so you really need to check this.

Finally, you need to order some flipper bushings. These are very important if you want to keep the flippers from cutting into your playfield, or creating unnecessary airballs. They don't come in the rebuild kits, but you absolutely need them for a rebuild.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270&parent=60

BUSHING.jpgBUSHING.jpg
BACKING-NUTS.jpgBACKING-NUTS.jpg

47
#7 11 years ago

Start by labeling the wires that go to the flippers, you can use Blue Painter's Tape. Then label the coils themselves. You can write on the coil plastic with a Sharpie (it cleans off with alcohol). Now you can put the game back together again without blowing anything up.

Unsolder your now clearly marked wires with a 25w soldering iron. If you don't have one yet, your going to need one constantly to maintain a pinball game. Don't buy one for less than $20, trust me on this.

If there are any "lane change" switches and wires ganged up with the EOS switch, label and unsolder those too. Unlike the EOS Switches, the Lane Change switches usually do not need to be replaced, only cleaned. Just pull a crisp $100 bill through the held together contacts, until the bill pulls through cleanly. The first pull will be very black with carbon.

Loosen the flipper nut, and carefully pull the flipper bat out from the top of the playfield.

Next, get out a 1/4" nut driver and remove the hex head screws from around the flipper bracket. Take the whole assembly out of the game and onto a well lit workbench covered with newspapers. If you don't cover your workbench, you will soon be sorry as the whole bracket will be covered with black carbon and iron dust.

The dust comes from the metal on metal pounding between the Plunger and Coil Stop. Some more dust comes from the spark that occurs at the EOS Switch. It's filthy.

Unsolder the EOS Switch Capacitor, and put it aside.

Take the old Coil Sleeve out and discard it. If the sleeve is tight, press evenly on the bench to get it out. If it is absolutely stuck, the coil may have overheated at some point. Replace the coil, they are only $10.

Discard the old Coil Stop, the Spring, the Plunger/Link assembly, the Bushing, and the EOS Switch. No reason to save them as spares, because once you play on a game with new flipper mechs, set up correctly, you will never even think of reusing that old junk.

Take the saved parts to the sink and scrub with Fantastic cleaner (or any other degreaser) and a toothbrush. Don't get the coil label wet or it will fall off. Just use the damp toothbrush and clean the coil inside and out.

Don't put the metal parts in a tumbler for too long or with high abrasives. The parts are zinc plated and the tumbler could remove this protective plating. When you see restored games where the hardware is completely covered with white corrosion, you know somebody tumbled off all the coatings. If you, or someone before you already did this, tumble again and spray with a light coating of clear Polyurethane.

LEAF-SPRING.jpgLEAF-SPRING.jpg

40
#8 11 years ago

System 11 owners update:

Unless someone really took care of your game before you, you have the awful, conical spring that rides around the outside of the plunger. This spring is usually weak, broken and corroded. It is simply a poor design choice as it chews up the Plunger Link and sometimes the Plunger itself.

No doubt you have noticed the "snap" of the newer Fliptronic games and now you can have their superior snappiness too.

You will need to drill a 1/16" (1.5mm) hole in the Capacitor Bracket. Don't drill through the Capacitor itself (you removed it in the last step, yes?).

Measure from the picture below. Use a punch to keep the drill bit from walking around. Once you drill the hole, file off any sharp edges on both the front and back.

BRACKET-HOLE.jpgBRACKET-HOLE.jpg

33
#9 11 years ago

System 11 owners update part 2:

You will note that your new "Fliptronic" arms have spring tabs on them. Never again will they suffer with conical springs.

SPRING-TAB.jpgSPRING-TAB.jpg

37
#10 11 years ago

Now it is time to reassemble.

Put the new Bushing in the flipper bracket. All three nuts on the topside have to be tight, or your playfield can become damaged.

Put the new Coil Sleeve in the coil. This is where it helps to have a bag of Sleeves, because sometimes one will fit where none of the others will. If none of them fit, the coil may have overheated and really (I know, you don't want to spend another $10) should be replaced.

The Coil Sleeve protrudes from the Diode side of the coil. Don't put it in backwards.

COIL-SLEEVE.jpgCOIL-SLEEVE.jpg

36
#11 11 years ago

Make sure the coil gets installed the correct direction. The Diodes or even the Coil Tabs tend to break if you put them next to the Coil Stop.

BACKWARDS-COIL.jpgBACKWARDS-COIL.jpg

37
#12 11 years ago

This is the correct installation of the Coil; Diodes safely away from the Coil Stop. It matters, do it right.

Some Coils were installed backwards at the factory, so you may have to pull a little slack wire from the harnesses to reach the proper position. Don't worry if you have to clip a few nylon Zip Ties to produce the slack you need.

If there is a little plastic nipple on the coil, you can cut it off, or cut a little notch in the coil bracket with a Rat Tail File or Dremel.

CORRECT-COIL.jpgCORRECT-COIL.jpg

33
#13 11 years ago

When installing the Coil, squeeze the brackets towards each other as you tighten the cap head bolts.

You don't want the coil moving around robbing your game of power. Tight is what you want, no play, no slop.

COIL-INSTALL.jpgCOIL-INSTALL.jpg

32
#14 11 years ago

It's not in your kit, but remember to zip-tie your Capacitor to the bracket.

Now solder the Capacitor to the new EOS switch. The Capacitor has no polarity, that is a fancy way of saying that either lead can go to either terminal of the switch.

The Capacitor helps keep the switch from pitting as much. Yes, you should use it.

ZIP-TIE.jpgZIP-TIE.jpg

34
#15 11 years ago

Now for the section that strikes fear into the nubies hearts = setting the EOS Switch gap!!!

When the flipper is not energized (in its relaxed state), the EOS Switch needs to have solid contact.

So gently bend the leafs of the switch so that they are nicely sprung together. Not just barely together, but actually making good contact.

EOS-CLOSED.jpgEOS-CLOSED.jpg

37
#16 11 years ago

Now when the flipper is energized (the plunger all the way into the coil), we need the EOS Switch to open or the coil will overheat.

Press the plunger down all the way till it stops with your finger, and make sure the switch gap opens to EXACTLY 1/8" (3.2 mm). Not more, not less. (there are a few System11 games that want less than a 1/8" gap, check your manual)

You may have to fiddle with the leafs to get them touching when relaxed and 1/8" gap when plunged, but it is a lot easier to do on the bench than installed in the game. You will get the hang of it, take your time and get this exactly right.

A Leaf Adjuster tool makes setting switch gaps and tension a breeze. If you own a pinball game, you should have one in your tool box:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518&parent=0

GAP_(resized).jpgGAP_(resized).jpg

36
#17 11 years ago

In your goody bag, you got a little Gap Tool (sometimes called a fork or by Williams official name "Flipper shaft end play spacing gauge"). Many people do not even know why they have it.

I'm not sure anyone sells them anymore, but the Williams part number was 03-8194.

I measured a few of them and they are consistently .7mm, so maybe someone wants to make a knockoff.

After you put the flipper mechs back on the playfield, you need to set the gap between the Flipper Bat and the top of the Flipper Bushing.

GAP-TOOL.jpgGAP-TOOL.jpg

40
#18 11 years ago

I'm showing the Gap Tool on the Flipper Bushing NOT installed in the playfield, just for clarity.

I can hear some of you moaning that you did not get a tool with your game. Lucky for us, most credit cards are about .7mm thick. Cut a notch in your card and make your own. Don't cut through the magnetic strip or the embossed numbers, if you ever want to use the card again.

The original Williams instructions show the tool being used between the Crank and the Flipper Bushing. It is much easier to put the tool above the playfield, between the Flipper and the Bushing. That way the tool is far from the under playfield clutter. If it is your first time adjusting flippers, you can rubber-band the tool to the flipper so you don't have to worry about it falling off.

GAP.jpgGAP.jpg
Gap_Instr.jpgGap_Instr.jpg

#42 11 years ago
Quoted from williams:

Nice. Do you have any interest in adding this info to the Sys11 section of the pinwiki? I've written the flipper rebuilding section for Data East, and although they are similar there are definitively enough differences. This is very detailed and would be a great addition!

I'll look on the pinwiki and see what it takes to post.

I'll want to add some more pics and make a few wording changes for clarity.

#43 11 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Great article vid1900. Any interest in posting this on PinballRehab.com? I could post for you and give you full credit if that's easier.

Sure, give me a few days to add a few more pics and edit a few sentences.

#53 11 years ago
Quoted from FatsoPilot:

I asked Terry at PBL specifically about upgrading to the Fliptronics type flipper and posted the question here a few weeks ago:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-9-fliptronic-style-flipper-upgrade

Terry said it is not worth it and it is a lot of work for nothing, just buy a few extra conical springs. Any other opinions?

It's only drilling one small hole. If that is "a lot of work" to someone, then I'm not sure they are up to the task of a complete flipper rebuild.

The conical springs chew up the Flipper Links and often chew up the Plunger too. The Fliptronic springs are stronger, giving the Sys 11 that same snappy feel.

It's up to you if you want to upgrade, but you paid a lot for your game, it deserves to have the best flipper springs you can give it.

#55 11 years ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

vid1900, this is a great write-up, and I fully concur with doing the spring upgrades to the earlier (i.e. Sys11) flippers, but one thing does concern me - from these pictures you have a low-voltage gold-flashed EOS switch (fliptronics-style) in where the Sys11 design needs the high-voltage EOS switch with the tungsten-contacts.

Like this one:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=0

It is the high-voltage NC switch that also has the stronger spring to hold it tightly closed for good current flow.

The weaker gold-flashed EOS switches (fliptronics-style) are not designed for that application.

RussMyers

Russ you are 100%. Thank you.

That's why I did not want to Wiki this guide until I added a few things.

To get really clear pics I used the low voltage switches I had on the bench, cheating I know, but it gets the point across.

=

If anyone else has some important details to add, please post them and I'll flesh this guide out in the next few days.

#57 11 years ago
Quoted from vulture:

vid1900, thank you so much for this guide! Question related to the recent posts...
I recently got a flipper kit with conical springs from Pinballife for my Pinbot. I think I'll return it and get the newer kit, and do the mod you described. But they don't list A-13524-8 on their site. Which kit should I get? Here's the Williams flipper kit page: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=172
Looks like the newer kits don't include capacitors. Should I get new capacitors while I'm at it?

Nobody stocks the actual A-13524-8 anymore, because now you get the Chinese knock off kit, rather than the real Williams clamshell box.

So with that in mind, get this kit:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=0

and these flipper bushings (2):

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270&parent=60

and these high voltage switches (2):

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=58

=

Note that if you already have the new plungers, they sell just the Spring Wings for .75 cents (might be cheaper than sending the whole kit back):

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1510&parent=62

You would already have the high voltage switches in the existing kit, so just add the springs:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306&parent=154

Finally, the capacitor usually does not go bad, so reuse it. If yours is burnt up:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=177&parent=62

#58 11 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I'm going to check my machines, but I swear to god the coils on every single flipper (2 Sys 9, 3 WPC) that I have, the diodes are butted up to the coil stop, and that's been the case for all prior machines I've owned (3 others, Sys 11a/Old bally SS/Gottlieb System 3) as well.

It seems that sometime around maybe Big Guns and latter, the Williams games started to consistently have the correct coil installation.

Hard to say exactly, because most games have been worked on previously and the coils are usually the wrong size or upside down or who knows what.

It would be fun to check a NIB game and see how it left the factory...

#60 11 years ago

The games that use series wound coils did not have the caps. I think the first game that used caps and parallel coils was F-14 Tomcat (1987), but don't quote me on that.

So, no need for caps on your game. If you ever burn up a coil (or it overheated and you can't remove the Coil Sleeve), you can flip the wiring and use a Parallel coil. This will make your EOS Switch last longer, and you will then add the cap.

(Some Space Shuttles and Sorcerers had EOS Caps, but not all. They are big, black units that were mounted directly on the playfield, next to the flipper mechs)

4 months later
#74 11 years ago

Great find!

How did you ever know they were there? Google sure didn't.

#75 11 years ago
Quoted from GListOverflow:

Great info on upgrading old Sys11 flippers to new style. Any thoughts on replacing series coils with parallel on pre-F14 Sys11s?

If a coil smokes, so you have to replace it anyway, it is not a bad idea at all (you don't have to replace both coils at the same time).

You can then also add a Capacitor, so the EOS switch will last longer between cleanings.

You have to watch the wiring sequence if you switch coils.

If you guys need a guide to this, let me know.

#80 11 years ago
Quoted from GListOverflow:

Is that worth doing proactively? Or not really?

Hard to say.

If you don't mind cleaning the EOS switches, then wait until you cook a coil.

The replacement coils work exactly the same, so the only real advantage is the switch maintenance.

#81 11 years ago

If you are going to switch to newer Parallel Wound Coils:

FL23/600 - 30/2600 would be replaced by FL11630
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=8

FL24/600 - 30/2600 would be replaced by FL11722
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=10

#87 11 years ago
Quoted from Ranhorton:

It worked out in the end, but the metal bolts are weak. They should definitely use a stronger metal bolt

The patents ran out on that stuff long ago, so the bolts are just Chinese junk.

The genuine Williams rebuild kits came in a plastic box.

11
#88 11 years ago

If you want to change your old Series Coils out for new Parallel Coils, first label your wires.

The wire(s) that come from the Banded side of the Diode lug is your 50v = make sure you note this.

The center lug goes to your EOS Switch and the non banded side of the Diode lug has both the EOS Switch and the Power Return wires.

-
Same strength replacements:

FL24/600-30/2600 Series wound = FL11722 Parallel

FL23/600-30/2600 Series wound = FL11630 Parallel

SERIES-COIL.jpgSERIES-COIL.jpg

10
#89 11 years ago

Install your new parallel coil and sleeve. Remember that the lugs DO NOT go next to the coil stop.

The wire you labeled 50v power goes to the outside lug with the Banded Diode (the thick and thin coil wires).

The center lug (with the thick coil wire) goes to your EOS Switch .

The outside lug with the Unbanded Diode (the thin coil wire) goes to the EOS Switch and the power return wire.

The capacitor goes to both sides of the EOS Switch. The capacitor has no polarity, so either leg can go to either side of the switch.

PARALLEL-COIL.jpgPARALLEL-COIL.jpg

#96 11 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Quick question. Will this upgrade work for Data East machines as well? I saw it specify William and SS machines. I need to rebuild the flippers on my DE Batman and wanted to do the upgrade to it as well if it will work.

Yes, it's basically the same thing.

Remember that Batman has early and latter versions of the flippers, so make sure you order the correct kit for your model.

#99 11 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

What is the proper way to set the EOS for a normally open switch as opposed to a normally closed switch?

or maybe a different way to ask this question is, should the swith close just 1/8 inch prior to the peak of the full motion of the flipper? something else??? what is the vid way?

The vid way??? LOL.

We want the 1/8" gap so the high voltage can't arc across as carbon builds up on it, and it gives us a consistent distance to account for the built in slop in the mechanism.

If the switch you have is low voltage, arcing is less of a worry, but closing the switch in the last 1/8" of movement should be fine.

Post a picture if I did not answer your question sufficiently.

#101 11 years ago

Yeah, I've heard that tip too.

Makes sense to me.

3 months later
#114 11 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

Had to stop back and refresh.Rebuilding my FH now. Thanks again

Ohhh, shiny and new....

2 weeks later
#116 11 years ago

Sure, you can use either spring.

But the one that rides on the plunger is not as snappy, breaks more quickly.

1 week later
#122 11 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

When servicing the flippers, one person may have properly squeezed that front and backing plates toward the coil so it would not flop back and forth. Or may not have replaced the through playfield bushing. Or may not have replaced the backstop and its mushroomed. Could be most anything.

Yep.

But more likely than anything, the coil is loose because they did not squeeze the stop together.

#123 11 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

The flippers on my MM seem a bit too powerful. I am running 11629 coils
I was thinking of swapping them out with a set of 11630 coils I wonder if that wold make a noticeable Difference? Also where is the best place to buy coils?

Pinball Life seems to have the best prices.

You can feel the difference in play by switching coils. It is a cheap mod, so go ahead and try it out.

I assume you have the playfield pitch set correctly?

#125 11 years ago

6.5* is fine.

Make sure your flippers have fresh rubber and that the rubber is all the way down against the molded ledge.

Make sure your flippers have good (new) nylon bushings, and that you have the correct amount of gap between the top of the bushing and the flipper itself (use a gap tool or credit card).

1 month later
#135 10 years ago

You can migrate over to the new flipper bases.

Don't forget to label your wires before you take everything apart.

If you need step by step, please ask.

11
#140 10 years ago

UPDATING OLD SS FLIPPERS:
=
=
=
=

Ok, so you've got an old game like Disco Fever and you want to update to the modern style flipper mechs. This will REALLY tighten up the feel of the game and eliminate that 'bounce back' feel.

First label your wires so you know where your 28v and ground is.

Sys6-flipper.jpgSys6-flipper.jpg

#141 10 years ago

Next pull out all the old mechs.

You might give these away to somebody who is a hard core collector - those guys want everything EXACTLY how it came from the factory.

Here for ourselves, we want the snappiest flipper action we can get.

2.jpg2.jpg

#142 10 years ago

The first problem is that the old coils are shorter than the modern standard, AND they are 28v instead of 50v.

So we need a SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil. Often used in games like Black Knight*, the coil is full size, 28v and has plenty of power. Exactly what we need.

You also need a base plate, flipper bushing and a high voltage EOS switch (don't reuse the old one that lacks the "helper" spring leaf).

Terry at PL will actually make the entire assembly for you for only $36:

https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

Here are the options to choose:

Screenshot 2022-06-02 at 23-24-24 Full Flipper Assembly For Williams_Bally Machines From 02_1992 To 10_1998 (resized).pngScreenshot 2022-06-02 at 23-24-24 Full Flipper Assembly For Williams_Bally Machines From 02_1992 To 10_1998 (resized).png

I know right now many of you are saying "Thirty Six Dollars??? To rebuild my flipper?", but look at it this way:

1. You are getting a completely new everything. Nothing to polish or clean.

2. You are getting that "snappy" Fliptronic feel - the best flipper design ever made.

3. Rebuild kits in the future will only be $21 (instead of $54 for the old style Williams one).

4. You can sell your old mechs and coil and get a few bucks back towards your new stuff.

5. You can use modern flipper bats, so you get all the cool colors, transparent, illuminated......

* Firepower II, LaserCue and Starlight were the first games to switch to 50v flippers.

3.jpg3.jpg

#143 10 years ago

Find room on the playfield for your new mech.

You might have to spin it 180* to make it somehow fit between lights and wires.

Remember that you have a Right and Left mech, so don't make the rookie mistake of putting them on the wrong side.

Note that the solder lugs for the coil are mounted AWAY from the Coil Stop.

Note where your 28v and GND wire goes in relation to the band on the Coil Diode.

4.jpg4.jpg

#144 10 years ago

Unless your flipper bats are something special like Time Warp or Disco Fever, just buy new, smooth shaft ones like modern games use:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=915

But if you do have special flippers and need to reuse them, just make sure that the clamp is squarely on the shoulder. If it's not, you won't be able to get a good enough grip on the shaft.

Shave a small amount of Nylon off of the Flipper Bushing to give you the necessary clearance. Normally less than 1mm.

Gently tighten the shaft clamp, but do not crank down on it yet.

7.jpg7.jpg

#145 10 years ago

I normally set the EOS Gap while the flipper is still on the bench, as it is easier.

Note that when the flipper is at rest, the helper leaf spring is putting strong pressure on the short contact leaf.

You want to be sure that, as the gap is opened, you see that the helper spring is making the short contact leaf follow into the gap.

If you don't do this, one flipper will be weaker than the other - often 10 minutes into the game.

5.jpg5.jpg

#146 10 years ago

Here you see the EOS Switch gap with the flipper fully extended.

Note that the gap is exactly 1/8" (3.2mm). Not more, not less.

This makes for STRONG flipper action, by insuring that the flipper does not switch to low power until the very last millisecond.

6.jpg6.jpg

#147 10 years ago

Finally, align the flipper with the ball guide, so the ball has a perfectly straight path, or in the case of Curved flippers (Williams never called them "Bananas" use the flipper Alignment Pin.

The Alignment Pin is the steel hole behind the flippers, often overlooked. Put a drill bit or fat toothpick in the hole and tighten the flippers clamps down while holding the flipper against it.

That's it.

Your old SS game will play super tight with new mechs, and if you've never played Time Warp with tight, snappy Curved flippers - you are in for a treat!

8.jpg8.jpg

#148 10 years ago
Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

I notice this kit does not include the capacitors (I think that's what they are- the yellow things) in the traditional kit (http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=976)

Do I just reuse the old ones, or do I want new ones?

You can reuse the old caps, no problem.

Also in the kit, have them swap the gold plated EOS switches for the high voltage EOS switches:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

And don't forget flipper bushings:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270

#153 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Vid, how do you have time to make all these detailed posts?

Working on the road, bored out of my skull in the hotel.

#154 10 years ago
Quoted from Prmailers:

Interesting note:
On my FP, neither EOS switch (left or right) has the tensioner leaf, yet the left flipper is stronger than the right.
Both coils are good...

Clean the switch contacts, bend the leafs for best tension.

#159 10 years ago
Quoted from Decat:

Maybe a stupid question, but could I do this "upgrade" to B/W flippers on my 1976 Chicago Coin EM?

Are they 30 volt coils?

#160 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Just bought a HS this week and the top flipper has a little play in it.. Do you think it's because the coil is loose?

Could be a lot of things, like a worn linkage.

You will have to dig in and find the problem, or just do a rebuild.

2 weeks later
#175 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

How would you suggest dealing with magnetized flippers? Can that be reversed or should the parts be replaced? If so which part should be replaced, the plunger or the coil stop?

Replace the plunger and coil stop.

If you don't the dust will stick around and bind the flipper.

If you already have a tool mag/demagnetizer you could try it, but I would not waste the money to buy one on $10 worth of parts.

#176 10 years ago
Quoted from GListOverflow:

Another question on old flippers... anyone know anywhere to get the old Williams flipper bats with the copper shaft that the set screws screw into? I don't imagine it would work too well with a new style bat since the screws look like they need to bite into the soft copper.

You need that little cut out area around the bottom of the shaft so the expanded metal does not keep it from sliding off for repair.

The set screws displace the shaft metal and cause the metal to flare out, blocking the shafts removal otherwise.

I just saw those old style flippers at the show last week, so they are still around.

Ask and I'm sure someone who had upgraded to the new style will send you their old pair.

1 week later
#180 10 years ago
Quoted from Pacer:

I've rebuilt flippers a number of times before but have now run into a problem. When I attached the flipper bat rod, I clamped down on the rod fully by making the metal "open" sides of the clamp touch. This would still allow the rod to slip relative to the clamp. I continued to tighten, then check, then tighten, etc... eventually, the bolt sheared. This happened twice.
Am I missing something?

Once the "open" gap of the clamp touches, you are pretty much out of the game.

File, use an air cut off wheel or Dremel to grind the gap slightly larger. It won't take much.

1 week later
#186 10 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Regarding the coils being installed backwards, on games like my Firepower for example, it's easy to see how that happened. The lug end of the coil has a small plastic tab that fits into a cutout, and originally only the base had that cutout atop the coil stop. Original coil mounting brackets were not cutout, so the coil could only be mounted one way, but the replacements now carried by Pinball Life do have that cutout, so you can flip your coils around (if you have enough play in your wiring, that is).

Rat Tail file is your friend on old coil stops w/o the notch.

You might have to clip a zip tie or two, but I've yet to find a pin that I could not get enough slack to wire the coils correctly.

#191 10 years ago

No lube on flippers, ever.

2 weeks later
#196 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

What's the best solution with Grand Lizard, or other pin without the tall Capacitor Brackets?
(see pic)

Do I need to buy the $36 assembly x4 for that ?

You already have the 50v newer coils, so you don't need the whole assembly w/coil.

You could just get a new base with the capacitor bracket $7.86 :

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=260

#198 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Are we talking about doing a flipper rebuild using the newer style spring setup? Is this why you want the bracket with the capacitor mount? To use as the spring mount too?

I assume that is what he is wanting it for.

You can screw on a taller bracket to an existing base, but for less than $8, I certainly think that your time could be better spent on other parts of the project.

#204 10 years ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Earlier you said to check the coils for the correct ones and that a lot of F-14s have the wrong coils in them. Is this referring to something other than the service bulletin switch off the upper coils?

Depending on the production date of your game, you may need to put the different coils in the uppers.

Quoted from Geocab:

My Sorcerer flippers (lower) look and feel like they have been rebuilt recently, but the upper flipper needs to be done. Should I just do all 3 anyway and upgrade to the new spring? Are the upper flipper parts the same as the other flippers? Same question for my F-14.

Personally, I'd do all three, it's not like it's expensive to do.

Top flipper coil is FL24/600-30/2600

Lower flippers are FL23/600-30/2600

Quoted from Geocab:

Also, my lower flippers aren't in line with the lane guides, but those guides seem rather low, how do I set the proper angle for these flippers?

Same way you do the uppers on F14, clamp flipper and lane guide to a 1x1" strip of wood. Tighten flippers, remove wood.

#225 10 years ago

Not only the same size, but it already has the hole - no drilling required.

#228 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

This settup is quite the engineering marvel for it's time,

And to think they did it without CAD...

#231 10 years ago

I'd just get a whole new rebuild kit, and some new flippers.

Game will play as good as new (let alone not slip).

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html

#236 10 years ago

Can you put it in a vise and bend it back to 90 degrees proper?

Is the front bracket squared up?

I think the toothpick will not last, and will cause the coil stop to loosen.

#240 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I'd like to try replacing both sets of flipper mechs on my BK. I see a few posts on page three about it. Has anyone tried it?
-mof

I have.

#243 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I saw the link on page 3, but not sure what mods (from the external link posted) are required to get the upper brackets in.

That Siegecraft site is great.

I'd pull the whole playfield and put it on a rotisserie (or across 2 sawhorses) because the upper has a few hard to reach screws.

#245 10 years ago

You already have the coils (check the manual and make sure they are the right ones), so you don't need a complete build out.

Make sure that you have the new springs and the little tab/arm they connect to.

Don't be afraid to pull the playfield out. It takes maybe 2 minutes. If you don't have sawhorses, then 2 couch cushions will work (and look super ghetto in your required picture postings).

3 weeks later
#250 10 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

What is the technical term for these? I already rebuilt my flippers but want to upgrade from the conical spring to the other one that requires the little tab arm. If anyone wants extra points and can post a part link to pinball life it would be awesome, but name or part number will be just fine.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1510

Flipper Spring Retainer Bracket

1 week later
#253 10 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I could have avoided all of this, so let this be a lesson to you all: STOP BEING CHEAP, JUST BUY THE WHOLE KIT AND BE DONE WITH IT. Don't waste your time or efforts with these mongoloid-over-tightened pawls, pitted EOS switchs, and the hacks that other people have done. Just put in the extra 10 bucks and time to do it right, because it's a lot more stress to go through this crap

So true.

#259 10 years ago

No need for the cap in that era of machine.

#261 10 years ago

Just cut the notch with a rat tail file.

It will take you longer to find the file and put it in the vise, than to actually cut the notch...

#262 10 years ago

(of course you could cut the notch with a Dremmel too)

#269 10 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Can I use this new style in my 1978 World Cup, or do I need to order the properly dated rebuild kit from pinball life website?

Follow the directions about 1/2 way down on this page where it says "UPDATING OLD SS FLIPPERS":

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3

#273 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

1) I am wondering if I should upgrade them to newer parallel coils?

No, wait until you smoke a coil and then upgrade.

Quoted from mof:

2) I also got some pics from other Sorcerer owners, and I see that they have large black Caps attached to each of their flippers. I do not. Should I be concerned about this?

Show me a picture of what you are talking about.

#276 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

1) -- Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. =)

No, I'm being serious. If you just bought new coils, you might just wait until one smokes before changing over.

But if you want to get the longest life out of your EOS switches, and you have money to spare, you could switch over to parallel coils.

Choice is yours.

Quoted from mof:

2) here's a pic. I do NOT have these two black caps attached to the flippers:

I far as I know, F-14 was the first game with circuity that could take advantage of an EOS cap.

I looked at Sorcerer schematic (pg 17) and it does not show the caps.

EDIT: I have seen several Sorcerer games now that DO have those caps, so apparently some did and some did not.

#277 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Dear Vid:
Wondering, can you draw up an explanation on how to properly set the flipper buttons, especially when one button triggers TWO flippers like in WW or Sorcerer? I find it rather tricky to set just right.
thanks!
-mof

I'll see what I can do in the next few weeks for you.

#284 10 years ago

You can use a small drill bit in those alignment holes, or just make the flippers continue in a straight line from the lane guides.

On games with neither (like the upper flippers on F14) you can clamp the flippers and lane guide to a piece of wood.

This will hold them in alignment until you can tighten them down.

#287 10 years ago
Quoted from DefaultGen:

Thanks a lot Vid. Even a dummy like me was able to put in my new flippers!

If you put in new flips, you are no dummy.

1 week later
#292 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I know they had two different kit's during the 90's, I'm not sure which ones I used, as I have had them for a while. What exactly is the difference?

Games made from 02/1992 to 04/1993 have longer flipper travel:

Getaway
Addams Family
Black Rose
Docter Who
Fish Tales
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Whitewater
BS Dracula
Twilight Zone

=========================================================

Games made from 08/1993 to 10/1998 have shorter flipper travel:

Indiana Jones
Judge Dredd
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Demolition Man
Popeye Save the Earth
World Cup Soccer
The Flintstones
Corvette
Road Show
The Addams Family Gold
The Shadow
Dirty Harry
Theatre of Magic
No Fear
Indianapolis 500
Johnny Mnemonic
Who Dunnit
Jackbot
Congo
Attack from Mars
Safecracker
Tales of the Arabian Nights
Scared Stiff
Junkyard
NBA Fastbreak
Medieval Madness
Cirqus Voltaire
No Good Gofers
Champion Pub
Monster Bash
Cactus Canyon

#293 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Hi vid. I just upgraded my Black Knight's lower flippers using late model parts, and although it is an excellent, cost effective way to repair this machine with great action, it seems I have lost about a half inch of travel.

Sorry, I just noticed your post today.

Your old coil stops could have been very worn, you might have used that rubber plunger stop that comes in some kits, or you may have used the late 90s Williams parts.

You can just bend the end of the bracket that has the rubber plunger stop on it with a large pair of Vice-Grips and get your range of travel back. It does not take much bending to make a big difference in range of motion.

1 week later
#294 10 years ago

REBUILDING 1967-1979 FLIPPERS

==============================================================

OK, some of you guys were giving me shit for encouraging people to just install modern flipper mechs in older machines (http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3).

I still think this is a good idea, as the replacement parts are cheaper, the action is tighter, the return springs are snappier, and you can use any style/color flipper bat you choose......but I do respect someone who wants everything original.

This part of the guide covers the last EMs all the way through the early SS games.

So head on over to Pinball Resource with $46 in hand for a complete rebuild kit, and here we go:

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-WFLIP01

#296 10 years ago

The Williams EM/SS flipper mech is actually a pretty simple, durable assembly.

You have a Coil that drives the Plunger into the Coil Stop.

As the plunger reaches the Coil Stop, the EOS (End Of Stroke) Switch becomes open, switching the electricity in the coil from a High Power Winding to a Low Power Winding. This lets you keep the flipper in the up position to hold the ball, without the Coil overheating.

When you let go of the flipper button, the Coil de-energizes, and the Return Spring sends the Flipper back to the home position.

COIL-PARTS.jpgCOIL-PARTS.jpg

#298 10 years ago

Here we can see some typical damage to the flipper mech.

The rubber insulation that engages the EOS Switch is worn all the way to down to the metal. (if we had no choice but to fix this, we could use a piece of shrink tubing).

The Spring is rusty and abrasive. When they get this corroded, they usually just break.

The Link is loose and sloppy. The holes have become enlarged so there is now much play in the system.

The plunger is unevenly worn, so this adds even more play. The tip of the plunger is "mushroomed" from repeatedly slamming into the Coil Stop. This makes the plunger drag in the Coil Sleeve, making the flipper weak.

I know someone is thinking they would just file off the mushroom end, and install a new link. These are the same guys that reuse oil filters in their cars. Don't do it. Just buy new, tight parts!

PLUNGER-WORN.jpgPLUNGER-WORN.jpg

#299 10 years ago

Start by marking the flippers so you know which one came from what mech (unless you are installing brand new ones). You will see why this matters later in the guide.

Then loosen the set screws and pull the flipper back through the top of the playfield.

Next, remove the Coil Stop screws. There are (or should be) two backing nuts on the backside of the Coil mounting plate. Don't lose these nuts, or let them fall into the machine.

If the nuts are missing, replace them with 8-32 nuts.

You don't actually have to remove the the mounting plate, or unsolder the coils to rebuild the flipper mech.

COIL-STOP-NUTS.jpgCOIL-STOP-NUTS.jpg

#300 10 years ago

Here is a typical, damaged coil stop.

Note the rolled up edge that causes the plunger to Mushroom.

As the Coil Stop becomes worn, it becomes thinner. When it becomes too thin, the Plunger Link will start hitting the bracket and be destroyed.

Don't mess with trying to fix it, just throw it away.

DAMAGED-CIOIL-STOP.jpgDAMAGED-CIOIL-STOP.jpg

#301 10 years ago

Now, in no way am I suggesting you do this, but if this was the last Coil Stop on earth, you could (as a temporary fix), file off the turned up edge with a fine file.

Carefully clean up all the metal filings, as they are very abrasive and would destroy the plunger/coil sleeve in no time.

Ignore this post, don't "repair" them, just throw them away.

COIL-STOP-REPAIR.jpgCOIL-STOP-REPAIR.jpg

#302 10 years ago

Here, one of the Flipper Coils looks burned.

It tested OK with a meter, and the Coil Sleeve easily pulled out from it.

I was surprised, usually Coils that get too much heat will melt, making it difficult or impossible to remove the Sleeve.

Since the new Sleeve slid right in, and the meter said it was not shorted, it went back into service.

HOT-COIL.jpgHOT-COIL.jpg

#303 10 years ago

The Coil Sleeves are a very important part of having powerful flippers.

The old sleeves are made of metal, and thus have more drag on the plunger than the newer Nylon style.

ALWAYS throw the old metal ones in the trash. Don't clean them, don't burnish them, just trash them.

Your new Nylon sleeve upgrade will give your flippers more power, and cause less wear on the plungers.

You of course got new Sleeves in your kit, but it's good to know that they are the same Sleeves that fit most Pop Bumpers and Slingshots.

COIL-SLEEVE.jpgCOIL-SLEEVE.jpg

#304 10 years ago

The Flipper Bushing is what keeps the flipper from dragging on the playfield and ruining it.

When you see games with two "angel wings" carved into the playfield in front of the flippers, you know nobody ever replaced the Bushings.

We, of course, ALWAYS replace the Bushings when rebuilding the flippers.

Even if the flippers are not dragging on the playfield (yet), they will often have too much play because the Bushing holes have become worn.

Remove the 3 nuts and the Bushing will pull right out.

FLIPPER-BUSHING-INSTALLED.jpgFLIPPER-BUSHING-INSTALLED.jpg

#305 10 years ago

The Bushings are attached to the playfield with 3 Fin-Shank screws, just like Pop Bumpers are.

If your screws are stripped, bent or corroded, replace them before putting the game back into service.

If one of these fails, or becomes loose, the flipper will chew up the playfield in no time at all.

Make sure the nuts are Nylon Insert Lock Nuts, and have not been replaced with standards - the surface of your playfield depends on it.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

FIN-SHANK-SCREWS.jpgFIN-SHANK-SCREWS.jpg

#306 10 years ago

Here you can see the difference between an old style and modern style Flipper Bushing.

They are NOT interchangeable.

FLIPPER-BUSHING.jpgFLIPPER-BUSHING.jpg

#307 10 years ago

While newer style Pawls grip the Flipper Shaft with a C-Clamp configuration, the older ones have a pair of Set screws offset by 90 degrees.

Each Set Screw has a sharp point that deforms the metal shaft to hold it from slipping.

If you have a Torque Wrench, Williams recommends that you crank the Set Screws down to 75 lbs.

SET-SCREWS.jpgSET-SCREWS.jpg

#308 10 years ago

Here in this picture, we can see the differences between the older Flipper Shafts and the modern style.

Note how the Set Screws have dug a hole by displacing the surrounding metal into a mound.

Note the groove/keyway cut near the end of the shaft is deeper than the metal mounds.

This allows the Flipper to be removed, despite the mound of displaced metal.

If you ever put a modern flipper shaft into the older style Pawl, you will NEVER be able to remove it. The mound of metal will cause it to permanently bind, and you will have to cut it out.

NEVER PUT A MODERN FLIPPER INTO AN OLD STYLE MECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ever.

Because the shafts get permanent holes in them from the Set Screws, that is why we marked which flipper came from which mech. The Set Screws "find" the old holes as soon as you begin tightening them.

FLIPPER-SHAFTS.jpgFLIPPER-SHAFTS.jpg

#310 10 years ago

Reassemble the flippers.

Remember to use the Flipper Gap Tool, to set the amount of clearance between the flippers and the top of the Bushings.

If you don't have one, they are only $1 :

http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PP&Product_Code=PPS-03-8194&Category_Code=

Gap_Instr.jpgGap_Instr.jpg

#311 10 years ago

After reassembly, it is time to set the EOS Switch gap.

99% of all "my flippers are weak, even after I rebuilt them" complaints are from setting the EOS Switch incorrectly.

When the flipper is at rest (not energized), we need the EOS Switch to be TIGHTLY closed.

We do this by gently bending the two switch leaves towards each other with this tool:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518

Both leaves should have tension towards each other from bending.

=

There can be a few other switches ganged together behind the EOS Switch. These need to be separated by an insulator, or you can accidently send 28VDC down the switch matrix, killing it.

If you make a repair to a ganged switch, or lose the insulator - make sure the new insulator is made of something NON CONDUCTIVE.

EOS-CLOSED.jpgEOS-CLOSED.jpg

#312 10 years ago

With your finger, move the Pawl so that the flipper is fully plunged.

The insulated arm of the Pawl will now need to open the EOS Switch.

When fully extended, the EOS Switch gap needs to be EXACTLY 1/8". Not more, not less.

A larger than 1/8" gap will make the flipper weak, by shutting off the high power winding of the coil too soon.

A smaller than 1/8" gap risks that the switch may just arc and not shut off the high power winding at all. This overheats the coil, and burns out the associated transistors.

You will need to play with the adjustment tool and bend the switch leaves a few times to get it perfect.

=

If ever you find a weak flipper that otherwise freely moves through it's range of motion manually, suspect the EOS Switch. The contacts may be dirty, or the tension/gap is set incorrectly.

=

That's it.

Now, with your Nylon Coil Sleeves, your flippers will perform better than they did when they came from the factory.

EOS---OPEN.jpgEOS---OPEN.jpg

1 week later
#315 10 years ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Ok, starting my first flipper rebuild on my first pin Space Station. This is a great tutorial, and actually makes me feel better about doing it myself. Might there be any more tips to make this rebuild a little easier. Not scared or lazy, just want to do it right the first time. If you know what i mean.

Remember to replace the flipper bushings, even if they are not included in your kit.

Remember that 100 people, many of them total hacks, worked on your game before you bought it. Don't assume anything you see is "factory".

#322 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Not accustomed to these flipper switches. Can I swap them out for a newer style so that I can get a better gap? I can't get a gap of 1/8" on them. I want to upgrade the mechs to WPC anyway like I always do, but not a pro on lane-change parts yet. (pls link part in marco if they have it)

Looking at the scale of your picture, I'd say your gap is already 1/8".

If you need more gap, bend JUST the tip of the switch leaf towards the pawl finger. If this makes the switch leaf too short, bend the pawl finger outwards a small amount (or loosen the 2 switch mount screws and pull the whole assembly towards the pawl).

Clean the Lane Change switch by pulling a crisp $100 bill through it a few times while holding it closed, to clean it.

1 week later
#325 10 years ago

Yes, Flip II is opposite the older flippers for the EOS Switch - it is normally open.

No capacitor needed either.

Even if the EOS is broken, Flip II will switch to the hold winding of the coil in a few milliseconds.

So adjustment is not the critical issue that it is with pre-Fliptronic.

Clean the EOS switches with a crisp $100 bill, set them to make contact at the very end of the flipper stroke, and test your work in the switch test of the game menu by hitting the flipper buttons.

1 week later
#330 10 years ago
Quoted from abaxas:

However, away from endstop is best, the guide just needs the addition of info on what to do when you cant do this.

A few pages back I suggested making a notch with a rat-tailed file, or a Dremel:

Quoted from vid1900:

Just cut the notch with a rat tail file.
It will take you longer to find the file and put it in the vise, than to actually cut the notch...

Quoted from vid1900:

(of course you could cut the notch with a Dremmel too)

#334 10 years ago

What game is it exactly?

You never know what parts somebody installed before you bought it, lol.

In latter years, Gottlieb removed the pin that sticks out of the head because it would hang up, so don't worry about that.

Use a punch to remove the roll pin. If you have a mechanical friend, he may even have a "pin press" that pushes them out, no hammer needed.

#335 10 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Is the orientation of the roll pin important? The slot in the pin should be forward, back, sideways?

I can't think of any reason it would be, but you can always put it back in the direction you found it.

#339 10 years ago
Quoted from abaxas:

Maybe it could be added to the first page?

Soon I will have 10 pages for you to read, lol.

#341 10 years ago

Some advice on Fliptronic:

Swap left and right opto boards and see if weak flipper follows.

Resolder header pins on boards. Look under magnification for cracked solder joints.

Make sure flippers move freely when manually exercised.

1 week later
#344 10 years ago
Quoted from sturner:

Today on my TZ, the right flipper started to get stuck. Basically it flips up fine, but sticks and slowly goes back down to it's position (about 5 seconds). I'm wondering if this is a common problem that would be fixed with a rebuild. The machine probably needs a rebuild anyway of at least the bottom two and if that would solve the problem, I'll get to work on it this weekend.
Little nervous about doing a rebuild but your guide seems straightforward.

Try moving the flipper through it's range of motion with the power off.

Yes, that is a super common problem.

Rebuild all the flippers at once, put new rubber on them too.

Check that your bats are un-cracked before you order. It sucks to order parts for a rebuild and find you need yet more.

Don't be nervous, lots of people here to walk you through your first time.

#345 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

What's the best flipper upgrade I can do for my 1981 Bally Centaur?
thanks,
mof

Get rid of the Linear mechs:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11

2 weeks later
#354 10 years ago

All good advice above,.

..and of course, anytime with a stuck nut, first TIGHTEN (turn right) a bit to break the thread bond, then flip the switch on the wrench and back the nut off normally.

Even with the nut loose, you may have to put a flat blade screwdriver in the slot of the pawl and open her up a little to get the shaft out.

3 weeks later
#371 10 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Is it acceptable/ interchangeable to use an earlier kit in a more recent game?

It would confuse the hell out of an experienced player, but it's your game.

If the plungers and links are in good shape, just swap the coil stops and see if you like the difference in travel.

1 month later
#379 10 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Doing a flipper rebuild on my High Speed now. Had to replace the coils, but the new coils are like a mm shorter than the factory ones, preventing me from getting the coil in tight. Any idea what I can do?

Make sure that the coil stop bracket is square (90*) to the base.

Bend it in a vise if needed.

Using a small rat tail file, you could also elongate the mounting holes by 2mm to make up the gap.

#383 10 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Isn't high speed a system 11 game? I went to do the mod and didn't see the bracket or a capacitor:

IMG_20140109_190519[1].jpg 442 KB

Wow, that's a mess.

You can get new bases with the brackets:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259

You will need Capacitors, high voltages EOS switches, rebuild kit with better springs.

That game is going to love you when your done!

4 weeks later
#390 10 years ago

I fixed a Tri Zone where one flipper had much more travel than the other.

Someone had installed 2 different coil stops.

COIL-STOP.jpgCOIL-STOP.jpg

#392 10 years ago
Quoted from nedreud:

I'm not imagining things, am I? That right-hand flipper has the high-current NC leaf switch permanently closed shut with some electrical tape and a zip-tie? If anyone were to hold some balls on that flipper during a multi-ball, or the like, then that is going to be toast pretty quick!

It's really nice, isn't it?

Sadly, I see crap like that all the time.

1 week later
#395 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Did you do this on the PAPA website?

Yes.

#396 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

I cant flip my coils around on my High Speed, its not designed like that and after viewing other peoples High Speeds its the same as mine, coil lugs same side as coil stop.

You might have to take the wires out of the plastic restraining loop to give yourself enough slack.

Other games can sometimes require a few zip ties be snipped to acquire enough slack.

Once you find the slack, zip tie the wires so they don't rub on any other moving parts.

#400 10 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

Came to the conclusion that I'd need new bases in order to update the springs, and new bracket in order to reverse the coil.

If your bracket does not have the notch to match the coil indexing pin, just make a notch with a small Rat Tail File or Dremel.

It will take you longer to find the file than to make the notch.

#402 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Just got my first Gottlieb machine, Black Hole. Wondering what the EOS gap should be... Seems like the stock behavior is about a 1/16" gap, if that.
-mof

Once you clean the switch, you might open it up a little bit.

If it's too close it might arc.

#404 10 years ago

The higher the voltage, the more likely the arc.

If you can open your gaps up a little over that 1/16", you should be fine.

#407 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Can you say more about the arc and what the goal/concern is?
-mof

As conductive carbon builds up on a switch, the distance between the contacts grows smaller.

If the gap between the contacts grows too small, electricity will simply arc across the gap, even though the switch is being held open.

If this occurs (lets say by trapping a bunch of balls during multiball), the arc will keep the high power coil engaged, melting the coil.

As coil voltages went up in latter years, the arc could jump across bigger gaps.

That's how your 20,000v Jacobs Ladder can jump a 10" gap....

jacobs ladder.jpgjacobs ladder.jpg

#408 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

So what about the upper flipper in High Speed, would it benefit with a spring upgrade? So Iam gonna get the rebuild kit that you linked for the flippers, gonna get the high voltage EOS switches you linked, the brackets as well you linked for High Speed. I decided not to do the capacitors, only because the type of coil on High Speed dont require it. The EOS is no big deal to clean. So is my list of things to get sound? Thanks

It's not as important to change the spring mech on an upper flipper, although, for the tiny amount it costs, I usually do it just so everything has the same feel.

#411 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

but what about those coil stops as they seem that photo you showed with the system 11 coil stop up against the fliptronic coil stop. We need to change out those stops correct?

Early Fliptronic were shorter like the Sys11, the last ones they made were taller to give less flipper range of motion and cradle ability.

Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Also on the lane change and eos switch stack on the factory base plate bracket there is a metal spacer between the lane change switch and eos switch, and the new base plate brackets you recommend ( I ordered 3 by the way, 2 rights and 1 left.) do not have that metal spacer there. Can you explain why the factory has this metal spacer in place, and do I need to do something to the new base plate brackets when I get them in the mail?

Post a pic of the spacer.

#413 10 years ago

Your coils will fit tight.

Remember to squeeze the coil stop/ coil/ bracket sandwich together as you tighten the coil stop bolts.

#417 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Vid, were we suppose to buy these for the new mounting plates? http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=368 They don't show these in the pic on pinballlife. Let me know?
Just called Terry and he said that to use the bracket that's on my current base plate and just transfer it to the new mounting plate. He said he was 99.9% percent sure its gonna work. He said what you see in the pic. on his website is what you get, and I didn't see the coil mounting bracket is why I asked.

No need to buy an extra bracket, just transfer it over to the new base.

If it's bent out of square (no longer 90*), just put it in a vise and hit it with a hammer.

#421 10 years ago
Quoted from mulder2010:

I have a broken flipper link on a pawl, and as a quick fix before that, I wanted to just replace the link. How would you remove the metal piece that connects the link to the pawl?

There is a roll pin that you tap out with a punch.

roll pin.jpgroll pin.jpg
#422 10 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

You mention something about aligning the flipper and you said to clamp a piece of wood down to hold flipper in place. I'am not understanding exactly where you would do this, where you would clamp, pictures always help.

I don't have a picture, but just make sure that the flippers align in a straight line with the lane guide that delivers the ball.

Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Also, on the gap gauge tool that goes between flipper bat and bushing, do you have to cut the credit card just like the gap tool or can you just stick the card up under there, tighten down, and pull it out.

It's much easier to cut a slot in the credit card - that way it stays put with no hands needed.

Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

I also posted a picture like you requested showing that spacer tab and I like to see what you think on how the mounting of the switch stack goes on the new mounting plates without this spacer there?.

I looked at that picture, but did not see the metal spacer tab.

Basically, just reassemble the switches in the same stacking order on the new base that they were on the old.

If you take out any spacers, you will mess up the EOS stroke distance.

1 week later
#427 10 years ago

Odd Service Call:

An operator says one of his games has a super weak left flipper. His service guy has replaced the EOS Switch, the coil, the sleeve and the bushing, but the flipper still has no strength.

I tell him that the EOS Switch is probably maladjusted, but he swears his tech "knows his shit".

I get there, game is BK2000.

Left flipper has almost no "knock" to it at all.

Good voltage at coils.

Flipper manually moves freely through it's range of motion.

EOS Switch gap looks good.

Using alligator clips, I jumper the EOS Switch closed. Flipper kicks like a mule!

I burnish the EOS contacts, re-tension the switch leaves and reset the gap. Flipper still weak.

EOS Switch, although touching, just seems to not have that "snap" when the gap closes.

Removing the 2 mountings screws shows that the switch has fallen apart. Even though it is a brand new switch.

eos-1.jpgeos-1.jpg
#428 10 years ago

Not only has the switch fallen apart (the two insulator pegs have no grip), the contacts look like the moon surface - and this is after I made a few passes with the burnishing tool (emery stick) . Total piece of crap.

I replace the EOS Switch with one from Pinball Resource and the flipper is flipping full strength.

So keep an eye out for crappy switches if you are rebuilding your flippers and have trouble with their strength soon afterwards .

eos-2.jpgeos-2.jpg

1 month later
#434 9 years ago

So you removed the lock-nuts from the backside of the plate, and now the screws will still not turn CCW?

Heat the screws up with a big solder gun or micro torch - someone may have used Loc-Tite on them.

Turn the now ruined screws with a pair of Vice-Gripsvise-grip.gifvise-grip.gif

187470-i.jpg187470-i.jpg

3 weeks later
#439 9 years ago
Quoted from cro_pinman:

The only question is how to get just the right (verified) card ?

As long as the card is .7mm thick, it will be fine.

Most credit cards I've measured are the correct thickness.

#440 9 years ago
Quoted from mima:

How do you use that?

Hold it to the underside of the flipper with a rubberband so it leaves the proper gap after you tighten the shaft.

31483-i.jpg31483-i.jpg

1 week later
#444 9 years ago

Just make sure that everything is tight and there is no play in the brackets that hold the coil.

If the coil has play it will buzz for sure, but some coils have a slight buzz in the windings themselves....

1 week later
#450 9 years ago
Quoted from pinballlizard:

any recommended upgrades for classic stern? I purchased a kit from pinball life but I have not installed it yet.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/6

This is older Williams, but it is almost the same (near the bottom of the page).

#451 9 years ago
Quoted from cheezywhiz:

I had a flipper that had too much wiggle which made dead passes impossible. Ball would hit the flipper and just roll off and drain. I replaced the bushing which fixed the problem, but the flippers are still not as solid as newer games when dead passing. Normal for old flippers, or fixable?

Is the linkage tight?

If the linkage is free of slop and the coil sleeves are new, then that is as good as the stock mechs are going to get (assuming no prior op has subbed in other incorrect parts).

You can, of course, put in WPC flipper mechs and Williams flipper bats (longer metal shafts), if you want "surgical" flippers installed in your game.

Not only does this give you the ultimate flippers, but parts and rebuilds are 1/3-1/2 the price of the Classic Stern ones.

#453 9 years ago
Quoted from cheezywhiz:

(How do you remove/replace that pin?)

That is a roll pin that you tap out with a punch.

roll pin.jpgroll pin.jpg

2 weeks later
#460 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Your adamant about the lug side of the flipper coil facing away from the stop. So with that in mind, should the pop bumper coils be the same way? Turned around?

Pops don't have the strength of flipper coils, so they tend to fare much better in either position.

1 week later
#463 9 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I need to know which one to get for my Blackout if I'm going to rebuild it with the new Fliptronic-style assembly.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172

Get the above, but with the High Voltage EOS:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

And SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=154

(you will need to tell Terry in an email to configure the kit like this for you)

#465 9 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

The rebuild kits I've got only included one switch, but the flippers I'm rebuilding have a couple more.

Usually, only the EOS switch wears out, because of the high voltage arcing.

The low voltage switch is cleaned by pulling a crisp $100 bill between the contacts, until it pulls through without leaving any black oxide.

Quoted from Robotoes:

However, I have no idea what they are for. No lane changing here...

Depends on the game, look on the schematics.

1 week later
#467 9 years ago

Try to put the flipper shaft through the shaft clamp from the bottom of the playfield.

If the shaft won't fit when you have it directly in front of you, it sure won't work from the top.

If the clamp hole is too small, pry it open a LITTLE, with a large, standard screwdriver.

#474 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Will do. How tight should it be with the screw/nut loose? Should I just be able to slide it in with ease or will I need to use a little force?

No force needed at all.

#475 9 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I have a BK2K and I was going to do the flipper upgrade, Do I need to get the System 11 coil stops if I'm buying the kit or do I use the ones that come with the kit?

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=172

Get this, and then you want these EOS:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

#478 9 years ago

I think they told us in Bally pinball tech class that a quarter of the button travel should activate the cab switch. The further travel on the switch would wipe and clean the contacts.

I can't remember if Williams ever had an official gap or not.

#487 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

ok Vid, Now I'm a little confused. I want to do the same as Schwaggs, But I already did a complete rebuild recently on my Firepower with the Firepower rebuild flipper kit a few months back. New EOS switches and the works. So my list above is what I thought I needed minus the last item that I listed for him. So now do I also need the newer style rebuild kit? Or is my list correct for me? I need the new base plates as mine are the Firepower ones with the non-replaceable coil stop ones..

So many ops have substituted so many parts over the years to keep games running, that it is hard to say what everyone needs.

Updating the flippers to the modern base plates and springs gives them that snappy feel (and replaceable coil stops).

#489 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Hey Vid, I redid my High Speed and am getting an E.O.S problem on switch 38, thats the upper right flipper. I have this as the only switch on the flipper, is this correct?

Need a clear picture that shows the wiring in relation to the band on the diode.

Yes, EOS is only switch on upper flipper.

#492 9 years ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Vid, does the rubber grommet in the plate the flipper plunger rests on affect flipper power?

No

It does effect the length of travel, so if you need more travel, you can bend the grommet plate backwards with a big pair of Channel-Locks. A little bending goes a LONG way!

Quoted from Geocab:

This game is useless if that top shot cannot be made with a clean shot.

Assuming the correct coils are installed, and everything else was rebuild correctly, look to the EOS switch adjustment as your most likely problem.

If you use an alligator clip to jump the two leaves of the EOS together, does the flipper fire at full power?

#493 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Vid, I rebuilt my flippers with this kit 2 months ago.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=652
Now I want to do the update as one of my springs broke already.
Do I have to buy the newer rebuild kit? Or can I just get the parts for the update in the list below?
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259 1 pc
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=260 1 pc
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1510 2 pcs.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=276 2 pcs
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306 2 pcs
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=228 4pcs

And would these be the correct Coil Stops?
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273 2 pcs

Thanks, Jack

Yeah, those conical springs are crap.

You already rebuilt the whole flipper so get the correct springs;

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306

and the spring brackets:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1510

Detailed instructions are in this thread, on page 1:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

#495 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Thanks Vid for the reply. Don't I also need the newer style base plates and coil stops?
Other wise, how do I attach the new style spring on the original Firepower base plates?

If you don't have them, then yes you need them.

Remember there is a L and R. I get an email once a month where someone gets two Rs, lol.

#498 9 years ago
Quoted from Geocab:

Jumping the leaves out essentially keeps the switch closed so if the shot doesn't make it, the EOS gap is not the problem, correct?

Correct.

Look here where a new switch was ruining the flipper strength:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/9

#499 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

I know I'm a pain in the A$$... One last question. Which coil stops do I order from pinballlife?

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273

3 weeks later
#505 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Vid, in post #6 of this thread you recommend buying the newer flipper rebuild kit. You recommend the one for 1992-1993, but there is one for 1993 -1998. What's the difference?

The latter one has less flipper range of motion

#512 9 years ago

Are they still the Linear flippers (the ones with the single long rod with the notch machined into it), or has an OP switched them over sometime in the past?

#515 9 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I was wondering if I could use the old flipper assembly's that I took off my Twilight Zone on the Firepower?

You would need to swap the coils, but it's certainly doable.

#518 9 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Are FP coils the same length as WPC?

SFL-19-300/ 30-750 is the "full size" (wpc size) coil, usually seen on Firepower.

1 week later
15
#520 9 years ago

REBUILDING BALLY LINEAR FLIPPERS

=========================================

As great as the 80's Bally pop bumpers are, the Linear Flippers are total crap.

The Linear Plunger is heavy, so much of the coil power is wasted moving the giant plunger.

The crank has a little button of Nylon that drives the Plunger.

Because there is so little surface area, the button wears very quickly.

Worse yet, even though we were told by Bally distributors that the buttons were to be sold separately, that never happened. You had to buy an entire new crank.

The cranks are expensive ($12), and the entire rebuild kit is around $70 !

#521 9 years ago

So we already have a weaker flipper because of the giant plunger, now let's add in lots of slop.

The little Nylon Button wears quickly both because of the tiny amount of surface contact area, and because the slots in the plunger were poorly machined.

Looking in the slot, you will see lots of tooling marks that are abrasive to the Nylon Button.

The wear opens a gap in the slot, causing sloppy action. Again, the slop is robbing the flipper of power.

2.jpg2.jpg

#522 9 years ago

It's hard to imagine a less robust flipper design; but Bally kept making them for a decade.

3.jpg3.jpg

#523 9 years ago

So what is the solution to the Bally Linear debacle?

Upgrade your flippers by downgrading to the previous generation of Bally flipper mechs !

That's right, we are going to use the much stronger, cheaper, older design.

-

First, order the KT-BFLIP-03 rebuild kit from Pinball Resource ($44 after your 10% discount for ordering $100 worth of stuff):

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP03

DO NOT tell Steve you are modifying linear flippers, he will yell at you.

Then order the better Williams EOS Switch also from PBR : #03-7811

The Williams EOS Switch has the little helper spring leaf that makes a stronger electrical contact. Stronger contact means stronger flippers.

-

You won't be using the Compression Springs or the EOS Switches from the kit.

6.jpg6.jpg

#524 9 years ago

The new Cranks have 3 cap head bolt holes in them to grip the flipper shaft.

We are going to hijack one of the holes to mount a little spring wing arm. The arm is just a piece of "L" bracket. This allows us to avoid the junky Compression Springs, and use the much superior Extension Springs.

Compression Springs ALWAYS break. They also scratch up the Plunger Shaft, putting more wear on the Coil Sleeve and transferring less power to the flippers due to the increased friction.

-

Wipe off the waxy protective coating on the new Plunger Shafts with Naphtha so you don't contaminate the new Coil Sleeves with sticky goo.

-

Flip the coil orientation around so that the lugs are away from the Coil Stop. This will keep the vibration from breaking the fine coil wires off at the lugs.

-

Adjust the EOS Switch gap so when the Plunger is fully pulled into the coil, the switch is opened 1/8" . Not more, not less.

-

Now when you play your downgraded Bally, you will have solid flipper control and better than new flipper power.

5.jpg5.jpg

#525 9 years ago

BBB_button_Installed_l.jpgBBB_button_Installed_l.jpg

Since I always catch hell if I suggest doing a repair other than stock....

Pin-Logic sells a replacement button that you can put on the end of your crank.

http://pin-logic.com/black-bally-buttons.shtml (looks like that web site is out of business 2020)

$4 is a quick way to get a sloppy set of flippers flipping again.

Is it as good as switching back to old style mechs? Nope.

But it's cheap, quick and it works!

30 years latter, we finally got our replaceable nylon button.

#526 9 years ago

4.jpg4.jpg

People often comment that they seem to have less range of flipper motion when really worn flippers are overhauled.

This is because worn coil stops change the range of motion.

#528 9 years ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Is Steve's problem with the conversion one of purity or does the extra power for a game not designed for it have other consequences? Easier to break plastics or anything?

I think he just likes to yell.

j/k.

He likes things stock.

#531 9 years ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

I'd like to get a kit for Taxi, and drill to use the other springs. Can someone help me out with links to the right stuff to buy?

Like Dozer said, post #6 has the info.

Rebuild kit:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983

EOS:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

Bushings:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270

#534 9 years ago

It will work, all you need to do is drill 2 tiny holes.

#536 9 years ago
Quoted from erichill:

Great idea using the extension spring!

It's SOOOOO much better than a Compression Spring!

Quoted from erichill:

I always use the linear coil stops (A-613-127) when converting a Bally over to non-linear flippers. The stops that come in the PBR non-linear rebuild kit are crap and extremely prone to springboarding.

I have not had a problem with the latest batches, but the older ones were a prob.

I do oftentimes find that the base plate holes are stripped for the coil stop, so often I have to run a longer bolt all the way through and put a locknut on the back. If you find the coil stop loose upon dissassembly, assume the holes are stripped.

#538 9 years ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

What to do if your flippers travel too far? See attached.

Replace coil stops with new correct ones.

Really, I'd rebuild the whole mechs because who knows how worn all the other parts are.

Quoted from aobrien5:

Also, is it safe to assume these DE flippers are supposed to have rubber stoppers in the brackets?

Yep rubber bumper 545-5105-00

1 week later
#541 9 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

Where do you find this bracket? I assume it's not a stock piece.

It's just a thin, sheet metal L-bracket.

You probably have 20 of them in your junk box that you are keeping for some reason, lol.

You could saw a wide bracket in half with a hacksaw to make one, if you don't have any thin ones.

There is obviously very little tension from the spring, so they don't have to be very sturdy at all.

41RT904DKML._SX300_.jpg41RT904DKML._SX300_.jpg
#543 9 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

Nice, thanks for the clarification. I suppose if I used one of those, I wouldn't even have to drill the mounting hole, or the hole to hold the spring.

If you get lucky, then you won't have to do anything.

If not. saw it, bend it, drill it - spend a manly 10 minutes in your garage.

You can use the old linear crank arm as a guide as to how far to bend it so the spring has the same amount of tension.

It would be great if someone who works with metal could make up a bunch of these.....(hint, hint, Cliffy.....).

2 weeks later
#549 9 years ago
Quoted from fuzz:

I have a demo man
Im currently rebuilding the flippers.
one thing I don't understand in the tutorial is that it states that the EOS should be closed in the flipper rest position.
on my machine the EOS is open in the rest position and closes on the energize position

do I have my EOS set up wrong?

You have it correct.

Williams reversed it near the end.

#551 9 years ago

Take some CLEAR, PROPERLY LIT, PROPERLY FOCUSED pictures of your wiring.

Prick up the wires so the colors and stripes are easily visible.

-

Why did you replace the coils for the bottom flippers in the first place?

Did the game ever work while you owned it?

2 weeks later
#553 9 years ago

Just take a Dremel or Rat-tail file and make a notch in the bracket.

Making the L brackets tight means no slop- so all the energy goes to moving the ball.

1 week later
#559 9 years ago
Quoted from vulture:

What I can't figure out is the other half of the flipper switch, circled in red in the picture. I've seen it described online as "this switch with the diode is low-voltage and connected to the switch matrix."

The coils are high voltage, and the switch matrix is low voltage.

The two can NOT ever meet, or things can blow up.

#563 9 years ago
Quoted from gabegabegabe:

I have an Embryon I am working on, and wonder what you do with the flipper that has the switch stack for the upper right flipper?

Post a clean picture, just to be sure that your switch has not been swapped out at some point.

Usually the low voltage switches are simply cleaned and returned to service.

#565 9 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I have a 1972 Swinger, The flippers have been removed by the previous owner. From what I understand, these are the first Williams DC flippers. Since I have to replace the flippers, Should I get the ones listed here, or are the EM flippers totally different?

The EM flippers looked like these early SS mechs:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/6

If you want the ultimate "playability" then install the new style flipper mechs.

You could end up with the best playing Swinger in the world.

#568 9 years ago

Both of those switches have the plastic pusher on the tips.

Probably best to just use the Bally parts in this instance.

1 week later
#573 9 years ago

Q: NO MATTER HOW TIGHT I MAKE THE FLIPPER PAWL, THE FLIPPER SHAFT IS STILL LOOSE.

A: DREMEL OR FILE OUT SOME MATERIAL SO THAT THERE IS A GAP IN THE TIGHTENED PAWL.

---------------------------------

Remove the clamping bolt, and file off a little material.

It won't take much.

pbl_a-15848-r.jpgpbl_a-15848-r.jpg

#577 9 years ago
Quoted from spaceport:

Which ones should I use?

Follow this, there are even Timewarp pics:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3

Quoted from spaceport:

Firepower uses a newer style. Does it make sense to upgrade the Firepower mechs too?

This page shows how to upgrade your Firepower mechs and springs to the ultimate:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

#580 9 years ago
Quoted from NextoPin:

I want to try and put my BK2K flippers in my '72 Swinger, not sure if that's possible or if I should just stick with the kind that it came with.

Make sure that your coil is the correct voltage.

#582 9 years ago

Probably either the wrong coil stops, or more likely, the old coil stops were rather worn and the new ones, although correct, offer much different play.

#585 9 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

I'm talking about the flippers being at rest, and having too much play when struck by a ball.

Sorry, I did not understand the question.

Unless some coil bracket or linkage is worn/loose, then I'd go with Razorbak's worn bushing.

#589 9 years ago

Could be the wrong bushings or wrong bats maybe?

#592 9 years ago

Usually in my bag of sleeves, there are some tighter than others, but you never know.

Try waxing the outside of the sleeve, let it dry and wipe off. Then see if it will go.

#596 9 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I jammed a tight sleeve into a NEW coil the other day, and I fear that it's stuck forever. Is it?

-mof

Maybe.

If you have a 1/4" drive socket set, there is one metric sized deep socket that can drive out a standard coil sleeve.

But at some point, you will just buy a new $10 coil, lol.

#599 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Did I do something wrong?

New coil stops have less range of motion.

The more worn out they are, the more travel you get.

The only way you "did something wrong" is if you ordered the wrong fliptronic coil stops, as the last flippers Williams made, had the least travel.

This is the Fliptronic you want:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273

277715-i.jpg277715-i.jpg
#601 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

I ordered the kit referenced in the first few posts of this thread;
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=172

You have the correct one.

Quoted from Fifty:

Or is my old one just so worn down that the range is that different?

You would have to hold them together to see how much has worn away.

-

Also, remember that your old ones might not even be Sys11, or the plungers could have been worn, or , or, or.........operators would put anything they had in the bottom of their tool box to keep the game running.

#605 9 years ago

You may have soldered the wires back in the wrong order, or maybe a diode is bad.

#608 9 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

Question: is there a reason why only my right flippers become weak?

Usually it's the EOS switch.

But, with the power off, move the flipper through it's range of motion and make sure it can smoothly move.

Quoted from JDee:

Second question: I bought my pins from a guy who simply tore off E.O.S. switches. When I asked why he said: "This way flippers are stronger because they have full power till the end, just remember that if you hold the flippers up for a considerable time, you're going to burn the coil"

Do you suggest me to rebuild them?

That guy is an idiot.

Yes, you will need to rebuild them!

#609 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

I took photos so I'd remember where everything went. I just took another look and everything is in the proper place. I see the thin red wire of the coil isn't soldered so great. I'm going to try to add some solder to it.

Any other suggestions?

If the coil winding is not making good contact, that will for sure cause machine gunning.

#610 9 years ago

Leave a little slack in the coil winding when you solder it back onto the lug.

If you don't, vibration will break the fine wire.

#613 9 years ago
Quoted from skywalker:

Hey Vid,
you may have missed my question last page
noticed on my BK all 4 std flipper mechs don't have the black stop rubbers fitted, is this normal, cant seem to find any info

BK did come with the black bumper plugs originally, so yours probably dry rotted over the years and fell out.

#614 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Now I have no flippers and switches don't seem to be registering. WTF? Argh….

Did you blow the fuse on the flipper board while messing around with everything?

Or worse, did you short the 50+ volts of flipper voltage into the switch matrix????

#617 9 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Which fuse is it?

There is a little flipper board in the backbox with a 4amp slowblow fuse on it.

#624 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Question from simple curiosity: why a 1/8" space at the EOS switch?

If you have more than 1/8" spacing, the flipper will never develop full power.

If you have less than 1/8" spacing, the switch may arc as it gets dirty, burning out the coil.

#625 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

is it possible to get a replacement mounting tab, or is replacing the entire base the only solution?

A whole new base is only $8, so it's not a big money upgrade (and it's very shiny).

They used to sell the mounting bracket for $1.99 (like in this picture), but I don't see them listed anywhere anymore.

Although it looks like garbage, in a pinch, you could just screw the spring to the playfield instead of looping it through a tab.

large.jpglarge.jpg

#627 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

And lastly (for now): I had assumed that, since I was upgrading the EOS switches anyway, I could simply use the regular switch included in the Pinball Life rebuild kits for the lane change switch. This takes some fidgeting, as you have to take the old switch apart and space the new one correctly, re-using the leaf with the diode and the nylon arm. My game is currently in pieces being shopped out, and it just occurred to me that maybe I should ask here if there's any reason why that *wouldn't* be a good idea. It means taking a "normally closed" switch and bending it with the adjuster tool so that it is now "normally open"; other than that I couldn't imagine why it would create a problem. But...there's a LOT I don't know, so I don't want my little knowledge to lead to a lot of damage...

You've got to be careful when messing with the low voltage switches.

If you screw it up and put 50-70 volts through the switch matrix by shorting the two together, you will be VERY unhappy.

#628 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Hey, Vid. !m stumped !! Ive fully rebuilt the flippers on my F14 (they work amazing) and i just rebuilt the flippers on my Space Shuttle. The left flipper on the Space Shuttle is driving me nuts!! If you hit the ball just the right way its got power. (towards the tip) but if you hit it say mid flipper its got no balls at all. All the parts are brand new except the coils. Eos is proper gap and clean. Coil is tight on coild stop, (no slop). Everything looks great and tight. Right flipper is good but this damn left flipper has me stumped. The coil looks good and tested proper resistance . Any ideas ?

It's probably the TENSION of the EOS switch leafs towards each other is too weak .

Jump the EOS switch together with alligator clips and see if you now have kickin power.

#629 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Apologies if this was mentioned earlier, I'll admit I haven't read all 13 pages of the comments
When reversing the coils, be aware that in some cases you may end up with wiring that simply no longer reaches. On my PinBot, the wires from the coil to the EOS switch, namely. I've added a roll of 18 gauge wire to my pinball toolbox, but couldn't find blue off the shelf at Radio Shack. A more thorough pinhead would perhaps not settle for this, but my plan is to simply use the wire I have and make a note with blue tape that it is replacing the original blue wires.

Sometimes you have to cut a few zip ties to make the wires reach the flipped coils.

Make sure you re-zip them so they don't rub on the mechs.

#632 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Sorry not sure what you mean exactly. If i alligator clip the switch contacts together wont the switch arc out and fry the coil ?

There won't be any arcing, because the switch will be jumpered closed by the clips.

You are only going to test the flipper a few times - just don't hold the flipper button in for too long.

#634 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

oh , ok , i think i get what you mean. Can you confirm this is what you mean in the photo before i turn on the machine?

Not the best photo, but it looks like you have the EOS jumpered closed from here.

#637 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

A little clearer hopefully .

Newmarket-20141118-00521.jpg 110 KB

Looks good, get ready for some kick.

#640 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

"You've got to be careful when messing with the low voltage switches.
If you screw it up and put 50-70 volts through the switch matrix by shorting the two together, you will be VERY unhappy."
I think I know your style well enough to know that if I press the point, you're going to tell me to she'll out $15 for some new lane change switches. I was able to orient the switch stack so that it was (to me) identical to the original arrangement. But if there's even a chance of blowing out the switch matrix, I'll drop the idea.
I was rather hoping to actually *use* the switches my rebuild kit came with. Would be nice if vendors could sell game-specific kits, but alas...

Lane change switches usually last a long time, unlike EOS switches.

Clean them by pulling a crisp $100 bill through the closed contacts and go.

#641 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

ok, tested it and i dont think i noticed a difference. I did just happen to touch the coil after that test and it was quite warm yet the other flipper coil was not.

So the flipper did not have the same knock sound as the other flipper?

It was not hitting the ball at full strength?

#643 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Hot coil mean anything ?

It means no EOS switch.

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

its pretty good if you hit the ball at the tip of the flipper but not great when hit at the mid point of the flipper.

Does the flipper easily move manually through it's range of motion?

Voltage is correct at the coil?

#645 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I keep wanting to recommend updates/revisions to the original guide

Let me know what it needs.

#648 9 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Is it AC or DC voltage ?

DC

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

What setting on the DMM should i use?

Depends on the model, but usually DC100v

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Do i just test lug to lug with the diode connected ?

Black lead on ground (like a side rail), red lead to either lug.

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Oh, and what is the proper voltage supposed to be ?

Depends on the game. Sometimes up to 70v, older games might be 30v

#651 9 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I'm rebuilding a set of Data East flips right now for a Simpsons. I assume that the bats should be tightened on with a shim tool between them and the tops of the bushing, just like a Williams pin?

Yep, flippers need a little bit of room to function.

#653 9 years ago

Check your EOS again and make sure it MAKES CONTACT at the very end of the flipper stroke.

Look at the back of the Fliptronics board and see if you have any cracked solder joints on the header pins.

Clean the opto slots with a Q-tip.

1 month later
#663 9 years ago

The stops are in the service diagram, but obviously that does not mean that every (any?) game went out the door with them installed.

Here is a NIB BK picture and it does not look like the stops are present (although they could have dry rotted out....).

BK-NIB-under-ply4.jpgBK-NIB-under-ply4.jpg

#665 9 years ago

The cap is such an inexpensive part, just buy a new one next time you have an order.

#668 9 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Does that mean that they weren't introduced in a specific year, and we should expect to see them after a specific date?

The problem with old machines is that most have been rebuilt 50 times, so who knows?

The rubber stops are in the BK parts diagram, and the holes are there to mount them, but if we don't see them in a NIB unboxing (unless they are dry rotted in the bottom of the cab), it's your call.

#671 9 years ago

Could be a few things, but one of your flippers could have an incorrect or worn coil stop.

I'd get a kit and just completely rebuild both lower flipper mechs.

#673 9 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

Ok, so not an adjustment issue?

No, it's a mechanical problem of some sort.

Pay your $20 and join the ranks of precision flippage.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983

#676 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

The quote above said he didn't do the capacitor. Is it needed?

High speed is too old to need the capacitor.

Quoted from Bax1:

Do I need a different coil?

Check the manual and make sure both of your coils are the correct ones.

#678 9 years ago

F-14 and latter had the cap.

Although I have seen Sorcerers with a different, black cap installed from the factory. They are mounted to the playfield, next to the flippers.

#681 9 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Can you pls explain why it would be incorrect or disadvantageous to add caps to earlier Williams SS machines?
-mof

Earlier pins had series wound coils, so the cap would not help save the wear on the EOS like it does on the parallel coils.

1 week later
#683 9 years ago

Yes bushings.

You can use a credit card if you don't have the spacer tool

#686 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

What would make one flipper end a little higher than the other?

The coil stop is different on the two coils, or the plunger is different on the two, or the coil bracket is bent.

You rebuilt the whole mech? Maybe they mixed up the coil stops, or you left one of the old ones in (the side that goes higher).

Post some CLEAR pics.

Quoted from Bax1:

When setting the gap, am I measuring between the contacts or the leafs?

Contacts.

#694 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

And no that is not my hand.

I was going to say; ya come askin' for help and you can't even touch up your nails???

#695 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Vid of course will have the more expert/trusted opinion (and hassle you for putting the lugs at the coil stop ).

Man, you guys are good.

#696 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

As for the lugs by the stop. I will try to flip them but don't think I have long enough wire to.

Sometimes you have to snip a nylon zip tie to get some slack.

Then just re-zip it in the final position.

#697 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Yes the flipper bat with the blue coil goes up just a tad higher.

Although I can't see it clearly in the pic, I'm going to guess that the L shaped bracket-stop that controls the flipper range of motion has been bumped forward on the blue coiled flipper.

Look at the paint on the underside of the playfield and see if you can tell the position that it used to be.

#700 9 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

what else could be causing them to still be weak?

Make the EOS Switch gap a little smaller. In your pics, it looks too large.

Each leaf of the switch much be tensioned so they spring towards each other. If they weakly touch, the flippers will be weak.

87911-i.jpg87911-i.jpg
#705 9 years ago

Congrats on your downward spiral into being a pintech!

#707 9 years ago

If you have the low profile contacts, you can just measure between the leafs, if you have the large contacts, then gap between the contact faces themselves.

#710 9 years ago

Classic Bally Early Solid State Flippers

============================

The early Bally SS flippers were a pretty dependable design, so often when you buy a game, you will find all the parts completely worn out and crazy sloppy.

Here we will rebuild this unit, improving the EOS Switch (End Of Stroke Switch) and installing the coil in a more reliable position.

Label your wires and unsolder the 3 wires on the coils. Loosen the 2 set screws on the crank to release the flipper bats, and finally remove the 4 baseplate screws to release the mech from the playfield.

I'll assume you have bought the Pinball Resource rebuild kit for the rest of this guide:

http://pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP03

IMG_0855.jpgIMG_0855.jpg

#711 9 years ago

The Coil Stop gets pulverized into powdered metal, resulting in all that black metal dust you find all around the coils in your machine.

2.jpg2.jpg

#712 9 years ago

Here you can see how much wear has occurred to this Coil Stop.

The more the Coil Stop wears, the deeper the plunger enters into the coil.

The deeper the plunger goes into the coil, the longer the flipper stroke.

-

Often people get used to the super long flipper stroke of a worn out mech, and then when they rebuild the mechs to their proper function, they are surprised by the now more limited stroke.

A great many people have never experienced a Classic Bally with properly functioning flippers.

3.jpg3.jpg

#713 9 years ago

Just like the Coil Stop, here you can see that the worn out Plunger has also lost a lot of metal; and of course, that affects the length of the flipper stroke too.

The worn out link now has elongated holes for the Crank and Plunger. This results in lots of slop and power loss.

4.jpg4.jpg

#714 9 years ago

Reserved

#715 9 years ago

An E-Clip locks the Link to the Crank. These are often missing entirely on old games, resulting in yet more slop in the action.

An E-Clip is a type of spring clip. Be careful removing and installing them, as they will literally spring off and be lost forever in your shop.

If you don't have an E-Clip tool, gently pry it loose with a small screwdriver. Have your free hand ready to block it, in case it tries to spring away.

7.jpg7.jpg

#716 9 years ago

Remember there is a Left and Right Crank that matches the Left and Right Baseplate.

8.jpg8.jpg

#717 9 years ago

The Coil has a Nylon Sleeve that the plunger runs inside of.

Never try to clean a Sleeve, just throw it away.

They are only .40 cents, and you can never get all the black imbedded metal particles out of them, no matter what technique you use. Your time is worth more than .40 cents, so to the garbage the old ones go...

You are going to install the coil with the solder tabs AWAY from the Coil Stop, so make sure you insert the Coil Sleeve as shown.

6.jpg6.jpg

#718 9 years ago

The new EOS Switch looks a lot different than your old one.

The old one had an extra leaf and a plastic barrel insulator.

The new one is much lower profile and has a piece of insulating paper called "Fishpaper".

Your kit does not come with new Switch screws, so you will quickly find out that your old ones are now way too long.

5.jpg5.jpg

#719 9 years ago

If you have some shorter Switch screws #5-40, you can skip the following step.

With a small standard screwdriver, pry apart a few layers of the old EOS Switch insulators.

The old EOS Switch is probably so worn and burnt that you surly don't have to feel bad cannibalizing it.

17.jpg17.jpg

Here you can see that the old spacers have kept the mounting screws safely away from shorting out the coil.

Remember that the coil moves and vibrates - keep a good amount of space between it and the screws.
19.jpg19.jpg

#720 9 years ago

Back in Bally school, they used to tell us that it was important to keep the EOS Switch isolated from the mechs in those early SS games. Of course, 50% of all used games are all hacked up and are using uninsulated switches, apparently without damage to any circuitry.

Even though it may be unnecessary, most techs still want the insulator on the switch.

The other issue is that there is a better EOS Switch (#03-7811 also from PBR) in the Williams style.

This switch has a helper spring leaf that gives a tighter electrical connection, and thus stronger flippers.

The Williams style switch does not have an insulator, so we will add one.

11.jpg11.jpg

You can buy a pre-cut Fishpaper switch insulator from PBR for .30 cents, or because you forgot to order them, you can steal them from the kit switch.

Pry open the switch with a small screwdriver or fingernail.

12.jpg12.jpg

#721 9 years ago

Here you see that the Fishpaper exactly fits the Williams switch.

13.jpg13.jpg

#722 9 years ago

14.jpg14.jpg
#723 9 years ago

The Bushing protects the playfield from flipper drag, and is important in keeping the entire mech feeling tight.

Don't over-tighten the screws, or the plastic will break about a month or so latter.

9.jpg9.jpg

10.jpg10.jpg

#724 9 years ago

It is always easier to assemble the mech on the benchtop.

You can use a #2 Philips screwdriver as a makeshift flipper shaft while you assemble.

Remember, we are reversing the coil so the tabs are AWAY from the Coil Stop. This helps keep the fine coil wires from breaking, resulting in a coil that 'machine guns'.

Leave some slack in the wires that connect the coil to the EOS Switch. Remember that the coil vibrates, and we don't want to stress the solder lugs.

15.jpg15.jpg

#725 9 years ago

Press the plunger down all the way till it stops with your finger, and make sure the switch gap opens to EXACTLY 1/8" (3.2 mm). Not more, not less.

You may have to fiddle with the leafs to get them strongly touching when relaxed and 1/8" gap when plunged, but it is a lot easier to do on the bench than installed in the game. You will get the hang of it, take your time and get this exactly right.

As the gap opens, the stationary half of the switch leaf should move towards the other contact. Literally the two contacts should always spring towards each other, not just limply touch.

If your flippers don't hit absolutely hard when you power up the game again, 99% of the time you somehow messed up the EOS gap, and the contacts are not touching with enough force.

You can jumper the two leaves of the switch together with alligator clips as a test when diagnosing weak flippers, if the flipper now kicks like a mule, the switch is not properly making contact, is dirty, or is broken.....at least you know where the problem lies.

Make sure you install the left and right mechs back onto their proper sides and you are ready to play your game how the designer intended it to play.

16.jpg16.jpg

#727 9 years ago
Quoted from ryan1234:

We could really use a Alvin G. flipper rebuild section!!!!!

Next time I work on an Ali G, I'll shoot some pics.

Quoted from ryan1234:

Were do you find the time to make these?

Most nights I'm trapped in a hotel room with popcorn ceilings.

#730 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

There's just a meatier, more solid feel to the flippers on Pinbot and F-14. I can't figure out what in the world could be making that difference.

Like I often recommend for flipper troubleshooting, jumper the leaves of the EOS together with some alligator clips and see if the flippers improve.
'

#734 9 years ago

If you "short" the switch contacts together with a pair of clips, you will instantly know if the EOS is the trouble or not.

Even a new switch can be a piece of crap:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/9#post-1495725

#740 9 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Could the flipper cabinet switches be burned and crusted a bit causing some resistance resulting in the loss of power?

Could be, especially if they were already weak before the rebuild.

#743 9 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

What's the best cabinet switch for something like BSD?

I think you have optic sensors, not switches on that game, or has it be hacked?

#750 9 years ago
Quoted from n0s4atu:

I hate to clog up this thread with this.

Actually, this IS the proper place to put hacks and fixes.

You can keep it as is, and we can just clean the contacts on the switches and adjust the contact point.

Or if you decide to put it back original, this is the perfect place to show your step by restoration.

#752 9 years ago

Check with your meter, but I believe the pinout on the Molex should be:

Switch 1
Switch 2
Ground
Ground
Key
12vdc
12vdc

You can remove unused IDC contacts from another same gauge IDC, if you just want to fix that existing Molex.

1 week later
#761 9 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Twice since the, during gameplay, the RH flipper has gone limp. Not dead, just totally smooshy. No power, no snap. And in both instances I flipped up the pf, looked at everything, hit the flipper button a bunch more times, and in another minute it was back to normal. I don't know how this would be related to the general "only 90%" feel, or if it is, but I'd sure like to get to the bottom of it.

-

Quoted from vid1900:

If you "short" the EOS switch contacts together with a pair of alligator clips, you will instantly know if the EOS is the trouble or not.
Even a new switch can be a piece of crap:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/9#post-1495725

First, check your voltage at the coil when the flippers are mushy.

Second, jumper the EOS closed and hit the flipper button (you can do it with the playfield up).

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