The Only JJP that has even come close to being added to my collection is JJP POC, which I consider JJP best game.

Even then, POC wouldn’t even make my top 50. So there’d 50 other pins I’d want to buy first.

Frankly any other manufacturer would have make a top10 pin to even get consideration for my collection. Spooky is the closest at the moment. Even Dutch doing BTTF, I’m not optimistic it will be what it could’ve been with Stern.

MET will be a cool pin, and good for pinball I think. Curious what’s changing from the original.

You are missing out

What about Scream? Aren't they making a new movie? Could be cool if bases on first one

Dude, lol take the Stern weiner out of your mouth. At this point I hope Stern doesn’t get any of my dream themes because I think they’d butcher it to save on costs. You need to get out more.

What we really need is Dune pinball! Sandworm multiball madness!!!

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It's a joke no one is taking advantage of a modern film soon-to-be triology that has a huge following. It's such a cool world and would be so fun as a pin. So many ways you could make it enjoyable.

*sigh*

I guess we'll see it in 20 years when it turns nostalgic for those 20-30 something year olds that have 40-50-year-old $$$

What would a Dune pinball be about? And don't just say [noun] + multiball..

I still don't understand the hate on Stern's pricing.. lets be real. The pro is the best value in Pinball... last I saw, everyone else sells their base model game above that. Too many people are focused on the LE price but the Premiums always come with all the bells and whistles for $10k... Still within a fair price range to all of their competitors.

American doesn't, their base price is about the same. But yeah that doesn't change the point.

The complaints are exactly like everywhere else on the internet, that doesn't want to believe supply and demand exists, and that they're entitled to more stuff at less price point because they want it.

Dune pinball could be an adventure about a desert people, it could be about space exploration, it could be about political intrigue (GoT style). Dune has a lot of story to draw from. It's been a minute since I read the books but I'm sure there is enough material to make an interesting pin

Instant buy for me if Stern can remake Tron, IJ or make new ones like Dune and D&D

D&D based on the 1980s Cartoon Series? YES PLEASE

Waiting for the $2k grogu mod.

Everybody elses low model is not pillaged, and generally has more in them than a Stern pro. The other piece that many forget to compare is that Stern has scale of cost where most of the others do not.

No one is saying only Stern pricing sucks, but for the value, it's questionable. If you just want 'cheap' yeah, the pro is generally the cheapest, but it certainly doesn't come off as a 'value' in many cases. Pinball as a whole has gotten way out of hand pricing wise. If it truly costs that much to keep them alive, maybe it does need to die a little. Competition should have drove the prices down, not up. If there's no one to buy, they'll adjust prices or die anyway.

All for a buck.

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Indeed. Any and all of these would be options. Also it would be an interesting opportunity to play from the perspective of a villain’s character arc.

There are a lot of people with bad Karma towards the manufacturers (and their supporters) at the moment. Kman has an army of haters. They spew their toxic negativity and get pleasure from taking the smile away from you and your family. Pinside is now riddled with this cancer.

My advice is buy and play what you like and can afford. There are a lot of really good people in this hobby. Focus on that.

This and the Pro still having a car mech in it with a coil but not the whole movement, seems a bit petty. They are at least not big game changers.

What was missing there SiN13 ?

Thanks

That’s a PRO and Stern leave the spot empty?… sorry fellas I’m lost there.

Pro doesn’t have the circle club drop target. Blocks entry as well as captures the ball for multiball on prem/le.

Thank you Ballderdash

My understanding is the pro still has the drop target spot cut out from the playfield but is filled with a piece of metal. Prem/LE vs Pro

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Sterns just play right, frankly. I guess I've known it for some time, but somehow don't think about it usually - I think we have to attribute a lot of Stern's overall consistent game quality and success to George Gomez. He has been VP of Game Development since 2011 or 2012, after which Stern has taken off. He drives and approves every single game and everything they do creatively.

I believe he said something in one of the Wick interviews about part of his job being to make sure all games live up to their standards. Every game has his input in it. Its no accident virtually every single Stern game is a fun pinball machine, even the ones that aren't as well received here.

If the price point for premiums is right, why are many newer premium models selling for umder 8k now? The market is suggesting the last price hike to $10k was ill advised and timed poorly as the stay at home pandemic was winding down.

Stern could have stayed lean and kept expenses down. Instead, they completely ignored where the market was likely heading thinking the pandemic demand boom would last forever and moved to a massive, shiny new factory.

9600 was the correct supply/demand price point during the pandemic. It's true Stern misjudged the demand afterwards. But cutting prices is the worse evil - that doesn't help a manufacturer, it just makes customers wait for the *next* price drop, and makes the company look failing and desperate.

Cutting expenses doesn't make a machine cheaper. Expenses don't determine what a machine sells for. Customers determine that by choosing to pay it. The argument has long been debunked with sports teams as an example - ticket prices aren't high because athlete salaries are high, it's the other way around, athlete salaries are high because customers have proven how much they'll pay.

Or stern says we had to raise prices due to Covid and supply issues but now we are able to lower them a bit since some costs have gone down such as wood and components.

Well, we seem to be at a point where more people are NOT going to pay it than pay it? So where does it leave them? Failing or desperate?
(pretty sure it's still too early to tell)

When you consider that many of the people who were buying NiB after NiB were counting on selling their existing games to fund the new game, that was only going to last so long. With prices dropping, many people refuse to sell at such a loss. (and take into account most people have limited space). Most people aren't going to have 30 games in their home, let alone 100's. The next year will be interesting. All of the manufacturers are going to have to fire on all cylinders.

Stern is great! Great machines and support! I love them!

Years ago oil price was $150 per barrel. Airlines all started charging fees for luggage. Oil price now is around $76 per barrel. Not only they didn't drop the fees but some increased the fees. I don't see people boycott flying.

Disney have increased their park tickets the last 10 years. The parks are still packed each time my family went( we have been going the past 24 years).

I think same with Stern. I know I am a new comer to this hobby and many who have been in this for years can't believe the current price. But that's the way it is not just with Stern but other business too. Precovid a pack of 12 cans of Coke is about $2 when on sales. Now, $4 when on sales. Back in 2006 I bought a brand new fully loaded Toyota Highlander for $35K. That same car is now $60K.

At the end of the day, buy what you like and can afford. But bashing these companies won't change anything.

It’s kinda like in “casino”….
You lost your job… F$$k you pay me!
Oh, you had some family issues….f$$k you pay me!
Toys cost money. We don’t have to buy them, we just want them!

Tell me the venom pro is worth all the money.

That was Goodfellas.

TBH I feel like this game is the first game in a while to have received as much negative of a review as it has.. personally I haven't really had enough time on it to judge my own opinion. I'd be curious to see though how many plays locations have gotten since it's release. Companies aren't going to have a hit every time, my comment refers to the overall picture of value.

Not really...you have the vocal 'where's my guns' crowd, and the 'nothing new to see here' crowd, but the general consensus of people who have played it is it's fun, but not 'pay top dollar fun', and regardless if people are in it for the money or not, they do weigh resale when it comes to expensive purchases.

Hey-ya got something on your nose there-may want to wipe it off

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Agreed, a D&D theme would be awesome - just please don't make it specifically based on the Honor Among Thieves movie. It can share the Forgotten Realms setting with the movie though, that will provide a bit of name recognition for people that saw the movie but haven't played the game and it's their best known setting these days anyway. You could really leverage IC here leveling up your character and acquiring special gear, make it have a bit of an MMO feel. I'd love to be able to have multiple characters, swap gear around, maybe even have a buy/sell/trade market for magic items you've found. Use the same time-limited quest idea that Wick's doing too. Sky's the limit, they could do all sorts of things here to make it really unique.

On the subject of manufacturers... I don't want Stern to be the only company making good pinballs to buy for home use, but in most cases it tends to work out that way. Elton John is really good, but JJP is going too high dollar, it's not as good as buying TWO pinballs. American seems to be struggling to find a hit game. Spooky is getting there, that's encouraging. Barrels of Fun has made an impressive first showing, if they can cut costs a bit and their reliability is good that's a refreshing second option. But Stern keeps delivering high quality games for decent prices. I can take my pick of really good HUO Pros for low $6000's so that's where the bar is set in my mind. I'm not averse to Premium level pricing *IF* the game justifies it. I bought a Godzilla Premium, and I'm considering whether it's worth going Premium on Jaws or not. So there's room for other companies to come in around that mark. Pulp Fiction for instance, if you're into the retro style pins - it's quite good.

With Wick, it looks like a fun game and a good first effort from a new lead designer. I don't think it's one I'll buy, but I'll certainly play it on location. I should be able to do that tomorrow night.

Listen I do think it's tough to justify any $7k + purchase if your juggling a mortgage, car payment and some level of child care. That type of buyer will 100% need to love the game in order to bring it in their home. Honestly I couldn't just throw $7k at any machine. I'd buy Jaws but I wouldn't buy Venom if I had that money readily available and I was ready to make a purchase. From my first play Jaws got me hooked, I suspect Venom will take some time for me to get into. I'm not writing it off though, I really didn't like AIQ when I first played it but I kept playing and actually have enjoyed it more recently

Location play is obviously completely different... they want to get the latest and greatest, it's a business expense. Not every game will be profitable but if they are smart they offload either earlier or later depending on how the market is going. Some games are so good that you'd never want them to leave location.

But will the Sandworms eat the ball?

Alien ripley is the best value in pinball. Spooky offerings arguably are better values than Sterns as well.

The cheapest overpriced product does not make it a value. The pros didn't get nearly the price hikes the premium and LE's did though, so they've at least stayed somewhat consistent with what value they do offer.

Wish Black Knight swords of rage had the drop down target in center shot (instead of the boring stand up target) in the center of the talking moving knight and ball went into a subway or something more like Star Trek center shot in Ritchie’s game.

Cactus Canyon remake is a great value for your dollar. Cheaper than a Stern Pro but built very well...reliable.

Alien Ripley I've only seen and played once in person.. I am curious to know how they hold up over many plays

(My sole opinion) Unfortunately I have not really enjoyed any of Spooky's games until Looney Tunes. Looney Tunes is a TON of fun... The rest just haven't been good. Scooby Doo is ok but I just don't like how it plays and kind of hate that the upper playfield takes up as much space as it does. It's also a common theme that Spooky quality isn't that great. Stern Pro's take a beating... if you are going to spend money on a machine, you'll have less downtime with a Stern Pro. In the house that means less money either paying someone or paying for parts to replace.. and on location that means more uptime for more coin drop.

I don't understand this need for every game to have a playfield full of Mechs. Mechs become gimmicky after a while.. I'd much rather a game that shoots well and is fun to play over a game that's loaded with toys and other crap but is so boring to shoot. I guess this then comes down to what you think is important to determine value. I'd much rather prefer a Godzilla Pro over the Premium and LE.. I want to pump in games. The bridge and building are cool but after a while I wouldn't want to watch all that. Deadpool is one of my favorite games, literally has nothing in it except a bobble head. If a game shoots well, you don't need mechs. Mechs/Toys are used as a replacement for a good layout. A good layout comes from developers.. good code comes from developers.. that is what you are paying for.

One thing with JW is that it doesnt' seem to be as popular a theme as I thought it would be with the pinside crowd. I held off for years watching the movies thinking I wouldn't care for them and when I finally did, I was hooked. I love all 4 movies. Just good old video game based fun. Low on plot, nonstop over the top action with old school kung fu movie as a backdrop. If you can't enjoy that, the cinematography and overall aesthetic is awesome. But the theme overall seemed to be met with a big ol 'meh'. Then those that were hyped on the theme got up in arms over the artwork. So who knows. Maybe this will be Stern's stinker of the year.

I don't see it being cheaper than a Stern Pro NIB (their website shows $7999) .. either way though you are right.. this is a great game and I do like the CGC remakes so far.

It's interesting though, there are individual games that can be argued but no other company in total can compare. You'd have to love that specific game to say "yea this is the best purchase

Are you buying BBQ?

I don't think anyone will argue that a good playing layout trumps everything....but people DO like to be wow'd. I think GZ is a great example to talk about. Opinions will vary regarding the building mech. I played the pro, thought, meh...but absolutely loved the premium. Everytime the building goes up or down and changes things awesome. The Mechazilla grabs the ball? Awesome. Destruction jackpot, awesome. I love the entire package --- on a theme I didn't really care about. And this is coming from a person who is pretty critical of Stern overall. I think GZ is one of the best pinballs ever if not THE best. They hit some magic on it.

There is a part of me that thinks JW is not fully for the current pinball community but maybe more a lateral step to grab folks who are younger / on the hobby outskirts. Interesting though, folks don't want Marvel themes.. get a non Marvel theme... upset at the theme choice lol. I can understand a bit, New Pinball announcements aren't weekly or monthly... you do have to wait a bit. If something comes out that you aren't immediately interested in.. well now you've got to wait another 4 months and/or longer.

Look at Barrels of Fun.. Labyrinth is a great game but lets say you don't like the theme but love the effort they put in.. you'll have to wait until early next year to see what their next game is and hope it's what you like. I believe folks saw/said 5th Element is a rumored theme from them. I can just image the disappointment people will feel if it isn't and then know it might be another 2 year wait for another release. Folks are definitely itching to see Dutch's BTTF.. Hopefully it goes well but if it's not that great or doesn't look great asset wise, that's many years of built up anticipation deflated

Godzilla Pro versus Cactus Canyon Remake SE

Playfields

Don't get me wrong, the mechs are super awesome on Godzilla. For me it's just not as important because the base game is already good, they're just adding more good stuff. This is why we now fall into value being subjective just like worth etc. This is why these debates will never end because what I value might be different than you.

BBQ is terrible I'm sorry.. I played it once, left after ball 2 (plunged ball 3 because I'm not evil) because It was just not fun at all ... and I've always been willing to give games a try and even play a few.. but after a few balls I just literally didn't want to waste any more time on it.