Sandy, UT
No Tron VE? Is this just an urban legend at this point or something that likely will happen?
(Topic ID: 163185)
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2 months later
1 week later
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Good movie. Made a gajillion dollars. Good pinball theme. = Top Gun
Bad Movie. On cable often and made little money. Bad pinball theme. = Goonies
Starting to feel the need for speed, and some Top Gun. With new movie coming out, would Stern base the pin on the first movie or new release? Hoping for the old one.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I would be in on Top Gun for sure... assuming Stern has fixed their PF issues by that time.
Quoted from Rager170:Some rumors floating around that Goonies could be the next one..
I am an 80's kid but that theme wouldn't do it for me.
Quoted from jorro:Stern was @ China Import and Export Fair (Canton Fair) Guangzhou-China
So my guess is
Hello kitty
Except that is Japanese
Quoted from Rager170:Must be a California thing lol. Ive never heard anyone say they arent a fan of Goonies until on Pinside. Its regarded one of the best 80's movies made.
Is this sarcasm?
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Not into Karate Kid or Goonies - both seem real dated now.
I think the next Stern will be the re-skinned Led Zep game.
Beatles wasn't a hit with pinheads but I heard it sold pretty good, so expect same kind of selling model.
Speaking of dated... Led Zeppelin.
Quoted from Psw757:I don’t really care to have Tom Cruise in my basement even as good as that movie was.
I bet you'd change your mind if the translite was the volleyball scene 
Quoted from Psw757:they should put some whacked Scientology undertones on it too, dudes a f’ing weirdo.
I don't disagree with that but then again so is most of Hollywood... and there have been a lot of pins based on movies over the years.
Quoted from Rager170:It wasnt meant to be taken seriously but just happened that two people from California were the ones saying Goonies wasnt very good. Ive never heard that before and Goonies is known as one of the best 80's movies made.
Ok, thanks for the clarification. I live in Utah and I wouldn't rank Goonies anywhere close to a top 10 80's movie either.
Too each their own, however. If we all thought the same or had identical opinions on everything, the world would be a pretty boring place.
Quoted from Goronic:Back to the Future
Ghostbusters
Star Wars - Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars - Return of the Jedi
Indiana Jones
Preditor
The Terminator
Blade Runner
Top Gun
The Thing
Aliens
Star Trek - The Wrath of Khan
Escape from New York
Dune
Caddyshack
I really like those much better than Goonies myself
{REMOVED - HAD TOO MANY LISTED}
Yeah Goonies is far from my Top 10 80s movies - But it is a good movie though
Great List. The one I would add to the list is the 3rd Indiana Jobes movie: The Last Crusade. Right up there with Raiders of the Lost Ark. Didn't like Temple of Doom, though.
Quoted from taz:I might also be in on a Stranger Things pin, if it was done well.
and the playfield isn't pooling and cracking. I'd be in on JP right now but won't buy anything NIB until we know these problems have been fixed for good.
Quoted from Rager170:Boy, you guys dont let something go huh? lol. I dont think id go so far as to call him a pervert for wacking off in an xrated movie theater movie showing. Id bet 99.9% of the people who go to view that stuff are doing the same thing.
I've never been to a X-rated movie theater but let's just say that while the audience would mostly be comprised of pervs, I doubt your math that 99.9% of those there are doing that. Fairly safe bet there may be public health issues and laws that strongly discourage such behavior.
Perv or not, I never liked Pee Wee Herman and certainly wouldn't want a pin reminding me of
him in my home... but to each their own.
Quoted from Rager170:Why else would anyone go to see an X rated movie besides to get themselves off? And having the cops setup a sting for that movie theater because of those movies.
I know Pee Wee's Playhouse isnt a theme for anyone by any means.
Yeah well not really something I want to think about any further.
Where we can agree is that a Pee Wee Herman pin is a non-starter. Hopefully Stern kills that plan now that Pinside has spoken
.
4 months later
2 months later
When do they start production on this? I have a JP Premium on order and hope they process existing/backlogged orders before starting these. Fear another shutdown in Illinois come late summer or fall and hoping to get my game by the latest August.
Quoted from cait001:If the new Bill & Ted movie pulls in decent numbers I wouldn't put it past the studio to make a new Top Gun
Top Gun 2 is scheduled to be in theatres (if they're open) in July.
Quoted from jonebone:Theme sells and it's interesting seeing some of the opinions in this thread. I'm born 84 and this TMNT is finally going to get me to pull the trigger, just trying to decide on trim. It's funny cause I see something like Munsters and think who would want to play that? 70s babies? Admittely I'm a pin novice though so the rule sets aren't the selling point to me, it's theme. And turtles is big with the 30 somethings.
For me, being an 80/90s kids, video games were everything. And turtles was all over NES / SNES and the Arcades. Sure I don't watch any of the modern cartoons and I'm sure the modern toys suck, but that has nothing to do with it. A pinball machine is pretty close to a video game in terms of demographic and nostalgic kick. It's just another neat toy in a man cave.
For me my first pin purchase was going to be between Simpsons DE, Turtles DE and Mario Gottlieb based on theme. But they all were "meh" games that need a lot of maintenace due to age. I saw Simpsons got remade in 2003 (ish?) with Pinball Party and that was perfect, another one for the 30 somethings. Can't believe it took until now for Turtles to get the remake treatment.
If this thing is even coded half decent (which it appears to be from what I've read here), it has no problems selling out and holding value. I'd expect it to have even more secondary value than Jurassic Park simply from a theme perspective, but time will tell.
I'm a 70's baby and have no interest in Munsters or Teenage Mutant Turtles. I appreciate you love this theme but I think it is a niche for those like you that may have grown up in that era. The Jurassic Park franchise is a lot bigger and is going to have a much broader appeal IMO... not to mention it is a great game with a very high bar.
Quoted from yancy:Just imagine how long these playfields have cured.
I've had my JP premium on order for over a month and that thought actually entered my mind. Won't be a happy camper if Stern prioritizes Teenage Mutant orders over baglogged orders for other games. I liked the fact this Covid layoff could increase my odds of a solid and adequately cured playfield .
Quoted from dsmoke1986:Do we really care about themes that much?
I don't know; I look at theme's as maybe putting a pin over the top; but they are all dorky in some way shape or form, it's pinball.
Then you have an original theme from Stern like Black Knight, and it gets universally crapped on by Pinside...They can't win.
Theme doesn't make an otherwise mediocre pin. However, found I do enjoy solid pins with themes I like better then good pins with themes I can't connect with.
I got a Spiderman 8 months ago from a local pinhead. It is a solid, highly ranked game but I just haven't been able to really get into it... largely because I never loved Spiderman or the movies. Ditto for hard rock pins. There are many highly ranked pins that fall into that category like Iron Maiden, AC/DC, and Metallica but I'm not interested in adding them to my collection becaus I just don't enjoy that genre of music.
The jury is out on if Mutant Turtles will be a fun pin worthy of comparisons to JP2. I'm sure those that really like the theme will jump in right away which is understandable. To each their own
Quoted from JonCBrand:when stranger things released they had pros on location next day or two if i remember correctly. Now I'm sure Covid delayed it but its quite possible they are running.
As long as they don’t delay my JP2 order another 1-2 months to take all these new game orders, that’s fine.
Quoted from mrclean:Guessing... IF they can pump out two more titles this year...
“Led Zeppelin” to be released same week as JJP’s GnR.
Very late holiday / 2020 December release will be partnership with Kapow “BTTF” in a similar fashion to how they released stranger things last year.
2021 as Disney World celebrates its 50th in addition to the Tron rollercoaster likely a cosmetic remake / rehash of “Tron 2.0” but will have an 80’s touch to it. Or just straight up “Tron VE” with various enhancements.
Looking at 2021 upcoming movie franchises I’m going to guess “Fast & The Furious” or The “Matrix”.
Maybe re-theme Jurassic Park to “Jurassic World” since the last installment will come out in 2021.
In 2021 a retro / throwback 70’s / 80’s title possibly;
“Jaws”
“Gremlins”
“Goonies”
“Labyrinth”
“Big Trouble in Little China”
I think that’s the next roughly 20 months or so of Stern new titles. If I’m right my wallet is in eminent danger.
Tron VE again? Disney abandoned the Tron movie franchise. It has been rumored now for 5 years. I doubt it ever happens
1 week later
Quoted from mrclean:I've always thought they should do "Walt Disney World" under glass. It can incorporate all of their major 4 Disney World theme parks, the rides can be both incorporated onto the playfield along with the LCD of a POV while being on that particular ride. They have iconic characters, rides, themes, songs etc.
-Represent the 4 major parks:
Epcot
Animal Kingdom
Hollywood Studios
Magic Kingdom
-Characters galore Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Goofy, Pluto, Chip N Dale, Figment
-Carousel of progress the backboard or backbox can change rotate scenes from different time periods
-Spinning "tea cups" / pops that interact with the ball
-Cinderella's Castle multiball / bridge.
-Spiel call outs from the attractions / narrations .... "Mr Morrow, Paging Mr. Tom Morrow...."
-Midway Toy Story game can be played on LCD with button on lockdown bar
-Jungle Cruise audible call outs / jokes,
-Expedition Everest Yeti interact with the ball.
-Space Mountain mode playfield has a star effect / LEDs
-Dumbo can magically lift the ball / flly to a different area of the playfield.
-Inverted loop for the Aerosmith Rock N' Rollercoaster
-Travel obtain countries / inserts from The world showcase at Epcot,
-Monorail around 7 seas lagoon can carry the ball.
-Parades / Fireworks / Lighting LCD / LED's
-Tower of Terror Twilight Zone flippers flip reversed
-The haunted mansion can easily create peppers ghost effect on the playfield / LED creepy lighting.
-Unlock RETRO retired rides like Mr. Toad & 20,000 Leagues under the sea LCD POV Ride footage
[quoted image]
I've said it before, Expedition Everest with a Yeti and made to be a updated, modern type of Whitewater game with a mountain/snow theme is one I'd be interested in.
Disney World is a great idea but there is no way they could do all that in one pinball machine. Too much needed to fit it into one game to do it justice.
1 week later
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:Not a lot of stoners save their money for pinball either.....i mean, I do but not many others lol
Marley doesnt exactly scream excitement though.
Umm, no offense but where I grew up, the stoners were always the kids into Iron Maiden, KISS, AC/DC, etc. Given the popularity of these bands and themes in the pin community, it seems to me there are quite a few former (or old)/stoners in this hobby.
For the record, I am not interested in most of these hard rock pins because I never liked that genre of music. Preferred 80’s/90’s new wave and alternative. I’d buy a Marley pin before any of the Stern rock pins. Given I’ve never seen a pin with alternative type of music, I’m guessing I am in the minority in music tastes here.
Quoted from pickleric:Most* of Stern music pins are a lot of fun. Give them a shot even if you don’t like the band. Some great pinball.
I know some are good pins. I really liked the gameplay of Iron Maiden but if I'm honest, despise the band's music. Too many other good, non head banger themed pins out there for a home collection to choose from.
Quoted from ThatOneDude:You should get one and replace the music with Yanni.
I'll pass but would probably be an upgrade from Iron Maiden
1 week later
Quoted from bloodydrake:I would love a Jaws pin. Simply one of the greatest movies of all time..So Timeless.
That said..if they don't' have the movie assets and audio and video clips of Roy Schnider, Richard Dreyfuss and Robert Shaw then its a huge missed opportunity..
might as well just make a generic Shark table or something from one of the million other shark movies like the Meg or something
How did Stern ever get the full license for a huge movie like Ghostbusters with several big name actors but can't/won't for a mid-70's movie like Jaws? Not a slam on Jaws but I think I think GB is arguably the bigger and more iconic movie of the two.
Did they just decide GB was such a big theme they would pony up and accept less on the pin? I mean they got just about everything including the music.
Quoted from yancy:Scheider, Shaw & Hamilton are dead. Richard Dreyfuss probably doesn't need the money, so if he doesn't care about pinball, good luck. I guess they can afford Lorraine Gary.
Exactly. With most of the actor's dead and the movie being so long ago, how tough would it really be to get the full license?
Quoted from Pinballer67:There's a wild rumor out there that Pulp Fiction might be made by Chicago Gaming/Mark Ritchie....let's hope!
Would be excited to see Chicago Gaming start making their own, original pins. Not so much for a Pulp Fiction type title, though.
Quoted from bloodydrake:Sacrilege!
I now must challenge you to a Canadian Duel.. Choose your weapon sir! Hockey Sticks, Polarbear Swim, or Maple Syrup and Pemeal Bacon eating contest.
Specially after Neil Pert passed this yearWell its a Spielberg Movie.. and its Considered the first Summer Blockbuster ever, and is ranked as one of the greats of all time.. Then there's estates for the actors that have passed that just don't care and won't license etc..Considering what a travesty the new ghost busters movie was, I'm not sure I'd rank Ghostbusters original Movie assets higher then Jaws original assets.
Shrug who knows
Not sure how the 2016 Ghostbusters movie impacts the iconic nature and assets of the first one whatsoever. GB is one of my all time favorite comedies and I never even saw the 2016 version.
Is it bigger than Jaws? I think so but like I said, that is open to debate.
Quoted from Pixel8Arcade:Spitballing....
Music Pin - U2
Movie Pin - Ready Player One
*Ready Player 2 book release is November
Movie Pin - Doctor Strange
TV Pin - Westworld
U2 would be one of the few music pins I would buy. I get the feeling it would be an expensive license to get, however, and I’ve never been under the impression the U2 genre of music is that popular in the pinball community.
2 weeks later
Quoted from mbeardsley:Yes, I like IM as a machine, but that is despite the theme - not because of it.
In general, I don't like any of the rock-band themes, and Iron Maiden is as bad of a theme as is possible. Though, I guess The Partridge Family could be worse.
Couldn't agree more. Wish they'd take the game design and use it on a different theme for those of us who can't stand Iron Maiden.
4 weeks later
Quoted from cpr9999:It was actually CGC.
Let’s all hope not. CGC was the only pinball manufacturer left putting out high quality games and play fields.
Quoted from Nihonmasa:Don't have nickelodeon here and Elvira is only known here due to pinball, and thus by a very limited amount of people.
Stranger is global, can't argue.
But in any case even if it matches both EU and US countries that's not enough to be "global"
Global implies Asia, Africa, SA...
In the pinball world, global mean's the US, EU, Canada, and Australia. I think that is kind of implied in this type of forum, no?
Quoted from cooked71:Retro Bond, Kapow, Lyman.......take my money. (Well, with Kapow we know taking money won’t be an issue).
I'd rather have one on the Daniel Craig Bond movies but do e right, any Bond themed game could be good.
Quoted from zr11990:I’m betting you are single.
If he isn't, he will be soon.
1 month later
Quoted from J85M:Give me John Wick with a layout and gameplay style like Ironman on steroids and I’d be down for that!
BTTF and Bond are the big ones for me though not much else I could see myself buying now theme wise, Elwin is the problem moving forward with his kickass layouts!
Slightly off topic but I would love to see Spooky get a couple of big licences, would love to show those guys some support, SAW would be right up their alley and could be mechs galore!! Or give me Dredd awesome film would translate to pinball perfectly.
If Elwin does the Bond machine, I'm in.
1 month later
Quoted from DS_Nadine:...because of a stupid 25% tax on US imports.
Let‘s hope this is settled when a certain thing happened in the US.
Imports are on hold at the moment as I understand it and people are trying to sell their Pro machines for 2000 bucks more. /:-/
Hasn't the EU always had high taxes on imports? That has always been my impression.
1 week later
Quoted from Morhaus:Teaser it out. It is LZ.
Meh.
Quoted from Psw757:Ok - I’m going with Bond or Godzilla
I'm in on an Elwin Bond pin.
Quoted from greenstreet:am i the only one who hates lcd? give me dmd or give me death.
Yes
1 month later
Quoted from PinMonk:Please, no.
Please yes. Would be the only music themed pin I'd ever buy.
1 month later
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Welk...it was never funny. Way to completely eviscerate a dead horse you guys. I hope you’re proud of yourselves for making a sometimes interesting thread an absolute pile of eyeroll fodder.
Lighten up, Francis.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Can’t you still buy it? I have a premium BKSOR and love it. Just would think this would be a horrible vault release. Ghostbusters would be cool.
If the license has expired, not sure GB vault will ever happen. They had the full license with actors voices, everything. Guessing it wasn't a cheap license.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:You do realize boomers were born right after World War II ended don’t you? I highly doubt people in their 70’s are trolling
You do realize boomers were born right after World War II ended don’t you? I highly doubt people in their 70’s are trolling much.
Yeah, I was a bit baffled as well. Most boomers were retiring a decade ago.. Insert millineals and it would have made more sense...
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:"Ok boomer" - millennials
I'm Gen X dude. I just laugh everytime I see millineals and boomers blaming each other for all the countries and worlds problems.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Exactly. Yeah boomers may be on Facebook, but many are not computer literate or are on forums trolling people. That’s not what there generation did. More a hipster thing. People like me born on the 70’s will just bust your balls and rag on you directly and not do the passive aggressive crap, especially us who grew up in the Midwest.
My parents are baby boomers. They don't even have Facebook accounts. Probably wouldn't even know how how to set them up.
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:Millennials are pushing forty now guys. Hate to break it to you. If you were born in the 70’s you’re gen x so stop getting triggered every time someone says the word boomer. Chill papi.
Jokes aside, most of our parents were boomers. I tend to have alot of respect for their generation and particularly the WWII "greatest" generation.
Quoted from 1963BSARGS:I could handle black sabbath, but don’t think I could take another yodeling british band pin.
Isn't that what Black Sabbath is?
Quoted from PinballHaven:Chili peppers would be fun.......cycle through the guitarist battle until they quit, Od, rejoin. There’s a fruscante final wizard mode you can never reach because of covid.
That might be the first music pin I would consider... consider being the operative word
I'm hearing Top Gun now... Stern has done a great job of keeping it off the radar and everyone in the dark on this one. Highway to the Danger Zone!
Okay, I'm just screwing around. Top Gun would be a theme I'd definitely be in, though. I never hear it discussed here as a possible theme so just curious how many others would be interested?
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:There will never be a Top Gun pin due to the US Military industrial complex involvement in the production of the film. The license is unobtainable.
The Navy cooperated on the Top Gun for PR and recruiting purposes. I realize the pinball demographic isn't necessarily their target age for recruitment but it is still good PR and most people who own pinball machines have kids.
It probably wouldn't come cheap but I disagree the license would be unobtainable. I think the bigger issue would be paying Tom Cruise, all the actors, and enough of the soundtrack.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:I'm trying figure what all these puzzles have to do with tron vault, cuz its next. And I'd rather have gzilla
It is Godzilla. Take it to the bank.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Agreed. Stern is not in the puzzle business and could care less about it. They are promoting pinball and the puzzle is all about Godzilla and not a samurai. I read, write and speak fluent Japanese and that is katakana for pinball written below the Stern logo. Stern would not have reason to show Japanese wording if it wasn’t about selling Godzilla the pinball machine (not a $6 puzzle) very soon.
Yep. That was my interpretation as well. I’m rusty but lived in Japan (Kyushu) for two years and minored in Japanese in college. Kanji is tougher for me to read now but Hiragana and Katakana I can still read no problem so I can read the clues Stern is dropping as well. All signs point to Godzilla.
Did you live in Japan? Just curious how you learned it and if you still use it at all in your job, etc? I don’t and unfortunately don’t get a chance to use it much.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:It worked as far as recruiting. My brothers best friend in High school always loved watching the movie. About 5-10 years after he graduated I ran into him. He was flying F15’s.
The Navy had recruiting booths set up at many movie theatres. I've read their recruitment surged the few years around when Top Gun was released. Glad it motivated your friend to become a pilot.
It was never a secret the military cooperated on making the film and that they planned to use it for recruitment. One if the reasons I don't buy the argument that the license is unobtainable due to military considerations. What would they care if a Top Gun pinball machine came out within a year or so of the Top Gun sequel being released?
Quoted from Darscot:Just out of curiosity how did all the homoerotica stuff get in the movie? It just seems odd if they had rights to the script they where ok with all of that especially at the time. Was it some kind of trade off like we agree to military propaganda so long as we get all the soft gay stuff and the movie still ends with you can ride my tail anytime I came out of the the theatre at like 15 thinking well that was weird.
I always interpreted the volleyball scene as an attempt to draw in the teenage female audience as well. The film clearly was geared and more appealing to a male audience with the theme and action.
Quoted from Darscot:Oh it was geared to a male audience there is no doubt about that. Was it just the stereotype of the navy? It runs through the entire film. I’m not familiar with the history was it during the whole don’t ask don’t tell of the US military?
Outside the volleyball scene, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. It is a cold war era, testosterone driven, military action film. I didn't get the vibe you are referencing from Top Gun at all .
Quoted from lowbeau67:I joined the navy in 1988 (Seabees) Got out in 1991.. If I had a
nickel for the number of guys lied to by their
recruiter about how they could end up like Tom
Cruise from top gun I'd be a rich man.
That movie definitely reeled in some gullible
dudes. Felt sorry for them tbh.
I heard that. I remember as a young teenager being all pumped up coming out of the theatre after watching Top Gun. I can see how it made Navy recruiters jobs a lot easier for a while.
I had a marine and navy recruiter pull some pretty hardcore recruiting tactics on me when I was a high school senior. I was never really interested in joining, though. I have a lot of respect for those like you that did serve, however.
Quoted from Darscot:First I think it’s a great movie and there is no negative connotation. There are a thousand breakdowns on the film. Tarantino has an entire monologue on the subject. I didn’t realize it was influenced by the military so it surprised me they approved it at the time.
I would take Tarantino's opinions on it with a grain of salt. My apologies to any of his fans on this thread but as far as I'm concerned, that dude is kind of out there (in a demented kind of way).
Quoted from lowbeau67:I joined the navy in 1988 (Seabees) Got out in 1991.. If I had a
nickel for the number of guys lied to by their
recruiter about how they could end up like Tom
Cruise from top gun I'd be a rich man.
That movie definitely reeled in some gullible
dudes. Felt sorry for them tbh.
Just curious, my impression is that a lot of the guys in the Navy that become the pilots are the Naval Academy graduates or guys that graduated from college ROTC programs. Was that the case?
How often are the guys you're referencing recruited out of high school in a position to become a naval pilot?
Quoted from Darscot:Of course he is out there, it’s what makes his movies amazing. My point was only the homoerotic subplot is as much a part of pop culture as the movie itself. This isn’t some obscure conspiracy or a secret it’s a widely accepted theme of the film. If they could afford it, it would be on as double feature with the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
You keep going down this path but what you are referencing has mostly been a running joke about the volleyball scene. I already told you why they likely threw that in. I have no idea where you're coming from with the rest of it.
Quoted from Lounge:There is a private message feature that would probably be a better fit for your blossoming bromance.
You're right. Top Gun would be lame. Let's get back to talking about more terrible heavy metal band possibilities like Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzie, etc
Quoted from oneballjab:Same for me. Bond is much more my kind of theme, crossing my fingers and hoping for it this year (all Bonds not just Craig in No Time To Die)
Still excited to see a Toho Godzilla, as I think it has potential to be a fun pin.
I would be okay with an all Craig theme from Casino Royale to current, though. Agree, though, one based just on the new movie would probably be a mistake.
Quoted from Phbooms:anybody else hear mentions of Highway to the Danger Zone?
I wish. You'd have to think if they were ever going to do Top Gun, it would have been done already. I personally think it would be a great pinball theme.
Quoted from Phbooms:Id like to have a OG BK. I wouldnt say its the best of the 3 by any means with no depth to code but id like it to have a piece of history. Honestly if i wanted a split level id rather have Pharaoh, Grand Lizard, Solar Fire, or Jungle Lord though.
Back on topic. Godzilla, Top Gun, Bond, and Queen coming this year.
Bond and Top Gun would be very difficult for me to pass on. I'll be happy if one of the two actually happens, though.
Quoted from Phbooms:Ive heard more hints of Top Gun actually then Bond. One of the distributors has some clues in his podcasts just got to listen to little Easter eggs they throw in there shows.
Personally i dont want a Top Gun or Godzilla. If it was up to me id do a Goonies, Harry Potter, Bond, and ready for it....Fortnite with online multiplayer, it would be the next step in pinball going online with friends in squads and battling through a pinball machine. You want new eyes and a bigger future for pinball in general thats the game to make. All the old heads here would lose there mind but the new players it would bring in would be immense.
Thanks for the details. I'm all in on Top Gun if they have enough of the assets including the better songs from the soundtrack (Danger Zone, Top Gun anthem).
I'm still skeptical as I've heard little to no smoke here or elsewhere about Top Gun but maybe you're on ro something.
No interest here in Godzilla as well which I'm pretty sure will be the next Stern announcement.
Quoted from Guinnesstime:All in on Top Gun.
Top Gun school
Stay above the hard deck
Jester's Dead
Inverted vs. Migs (reverse flippers)
Jetwash Frenzy
Volleyball video mode
Hops galore
Michael Ironside Custom Callouts
Great Balls of Fire
To me, Top Gun is an ideal theme for a fast paced pinball machine. A lot of directions and things they can use to design the game.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Godzilla will and is happening. You will see. You won’t see a Top Gun. If you do there will be NO Tom Cruise.
I don't think many if any if us are questioning that Godzilla is coming or likely next. Many like me are just saying we have no interest in the theme.
1 week later
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:Megadeth Megadeth Megadeth
MEGADETH
Just shoot me if Stern does this. Tired of metal themed pins.
Quoted from curban:It’s obviously going to be:
[quoted image]
Would be a hot seller in the German market. A Hoff soundtrack would put it over the top
1 week later
Quoted from Yoko2una:I had never ever seen BTTF until 2 weeks ago. I’m 38 and it seemed cool but never had that draw. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I mean, having watched Star Wars with my son before that, I question whether that era had a fixation for family members wanting to hook up, but outside that, it was a good movie and I look forward to the 2nd.
Ghostbusters however... that movie sucked. How is it listed as a comedy??? It starts off with a sort of funny card reading scene and then just continues to prove Dan Ackroyd was never funny, ever. You can’t have a comedy and forget to include jokes. Sigorney plays her usual “stick up her ass self”, and Rick Moranis is a nerd. It’s should’ve been called “Type Cast: the movie... with some ghosts”
You lost all credibility saying GB wasn't funny. It is a great comedy and remains so to this day. Sure Bill Murray carried the movie (although Rick Moranis was hilarious as well) but I honestly would question if you have any sense of humor saying it was "never funny, ever."
Quoted from colonel_caverne:Never heard such a shitty theme for a pin.
Maybe an explanation of what you say.
Ummm... It could be argued that the Wizard of Oz falls into a similar category.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:One of the most famous and beloved movies of all time? That’s a pretty bad argument.
Someone said The Muppets was a terrible pinball theme. I tend to agree but my point was/is, The Wizard of Oz really isn't a great pinball theme either. You can have a beloved movie or theme (Muppets may be one for many people) but that doesn't mean it makes for a great pinball theme.
I owned an WOZ and that was my experience. I could never really get into the theme or music. I realize some like it which is fine. The Muppets may be similar depending on whether they made a good game or not.
1 week later
Quoted from Purdue:Um no... the plot was absolutely miserable. I did really enjoy the fight scenes but the rest was a D-.
There was a plot?
1 week later
Quoted from Rarehero:People are buying more than ever. Why would they change? Ultimately we’re paying for a factory with lots of employees to exist...the price is in no way related to the parts.
Because home entertainment due to Covid is a large part of what has been driving all time high sales this past year. As more and more people hopefully get vaccinated and we gradually emerge from this mess, I do wonder if demand and sales will continue at the very brisk level they have this past year.
My guess is sales will gradually go back to a similar level they were pre Covid as discretionary and entertainment income shifts to the pent up demand for travel and entertainment outside the home. It will be interesting to see where the market goes from here.
Quoted from Jamwin:Not to spend any more time on the “Next Stern Pin” thread discussing an unlikely but possible probability that JJP’s releasing an Avatar pin BUT, the Avatar Flight of Passage is one of the coolest impressive rides ever and to compare it to POTC at Magic Kingdom is absurd. Yes POTC is nostalgic and fun but Avatar is next level cool. Take if from a former WDW season pass holder that’s ridden them dozens of times.
The Pirates at Disney world is the worst in the Disney Park family. I haven't been on the Avatar ride yet but have been on the POTC at Shanghai Disney and it is next level cool as well. Would probably give Avatar a run for its money if they ever bring the modern version to the US.
Quoted from PinMonk:I hated Mars Attacks when I saw it in a theatre in Tokyo. Paid $30 to see it (in 199x!), too. Don't know if it was the venue or the $30 or the on-screen japanese subtitles or the Mosburger I got from the in-theatre takeout window, but it just didn't do it for me. SO disappointed. Then I watched it again on video and caught a ton of details I just missed in Japan and liked it (except for the Jack Nicholson character - still hate that part). Now it's one of my favorite movies, seen it countless times.
Try the blu-ray version of Big Trouble in Little China. Concentrate on the dialogue. It's a great movie.
$30 is steep but the Mosburger undoubtedly tainted your experience and memory of it. Worst hamburgers I think I've ever had are from that Japanese chain.
Quoted from PinMonk:Japanese movie theatre prices in tokyo are CRAZY. On a different trip, we saw Batman Forever in Japan, too (with a different cut than was released in the US or to home video, I still don't know why) and it was expensive, too. I haven't been to Japan in some time, so prices are probably worse now. But yeah, that's the only time I ever ate at Mosburger, mostly for the novelty of being able to get fast food from a chain in a movie theatre lobby. There's much better food almost anywhere else in Japan.
I lived there for 2 years in the early 90's. Mosburger was everywhere. It is a bad copy off of McDonald's geared toward Japanese taste.
I love a lot of Japanese food but hamburgers are something we do much better .
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:If the next Stern is based on a TV show, it will be current and massively popular (24, CSI, Sopranos, GOT, Stranger Things). And the only TV show that currently fits that MO, is Mandalorian.
Unlike BTTF, Mandalorian would make it an easy pass for me. My wallet will appreciate that.
Quoted from Apollyon:I guess its 100% confirmed now. When mnpinball calls it, it happens. His 2021 predictions are:
Mandalorian (Brian Eddy)
Godzilla (Keith Elwin)
Rush (John Borg / Lyman Sheats)
If you don't believe, just check out his 2020 predictions. The guy knows his stuff:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/happy-new-year-and-my-pinball-predictions-for-2020#post-6241247
Good to know that EHOH will be the only pin I'll need to find funds for this year.
After all the speculation around BTTF, Top Gun, James Bond, etc., Mandalorian would be a huge disappointment... at least to me.
On the positive side, if these rumors are true, I won't have to worry about selling my Tron or other pin to clear up space and funds. I can keep my pin purchase to just EHOH this year which is probably the financially smart thing to do anyway .
Quoted from Coz:Still the cheapest option in pinball for a new game in 2021: stern pro around $5500-5800 nib. No one else can offer a new game for that price. As a small time operator- stern pros are the best bang for your buck in pinball
So NIB Stern pros can still be had for $5500?
Quoted from wcbrandes:I'm not a huge Star Wars fan however I did notice one puzzling thing watching this clip. Why the hell do all the stormtroopers bother getting dressed in all that protective white gear when clearly one shot kills them all?
I'm not a big SW fan either and have always laughed at the whole stormtroopers thing. Get in a outfit that makes it difficult to move, breath, or see that offers no apparent protection whatsoever. LOL.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:This is not what I want to see on an $8k pinball machine. Johnny=Crap...the fact that he would even put this on his website is alarming. It’s awful, high school art class level.
[quoted image]
I don't even know who the guy is but from a high level, his name (or nickname?) Is Johnny Crap, right? What else would you expect?... and yes, that Chewbacca drawing you posted seemingly falls in that category .
Ok, I retract my previous statement. I didn't realize the same guy did the JP pins. I havexa premium and I like the art. Not as good as GB but decent nonetheless.... that Chewbacca drawing does look like crap, though
Quoted from NightTrain:Ha! This year man. I’ve heard from multiple reliable sources it’s 100% Mandalorian and that it’s being announced in the coming weeks, likely May 4th.
After all the speculation that last few months, pretty big let down to me.
Partially relieved, though. Gives me time to digest my Elvira purchase... assuming Stern ever gets around to making the long anticipated next run.
Quoted from Kkoss24:2 great pins that we could’ve purchased at a discount a year ago .Now theyre peaking and rightfully so .Yes this is a hobby and it’s all about the fun but I can’t purchase a pin for more than it was new .PoTC is my favorite movie series and I’ve come to terms I will never own one because I missed the boat I just joined the hobby a year ago .Could you imagine if houses were built and a trailer dropped and you had to make up your mind to buy it within hours ? There’s nothing like this in the world and I can’t figure out if I’m happy or sad I got involved
Is this the last run for Stranger Things?
Quoted from dri:Sunday thoughts. Stranger Things is by far the moodiest game Stern has ever put out and captures the series perfectly. I can wholeheartedly say that Mandalorian, the show, has a very distinct mood to it. Music, art direction and Mando's oneliners. That said, I have very high expectations of what's coming out in the next few weeks. Or did I just misspell DeLorean?
Has Stern sold a lot of Stranger Things? My impression was/is it never really got traction sales wide due to poor eary reviews. Has that changed? How much longer will it be made?
Quoted from TigerLaw:Stranger Things has recovered from its poor early reviews and can no longer be found at distros. Totally sold out everywhere per my understanding. It’s pricing will be on par with Elvira soon. Stern has several games in great demand at the moment.
Why would pricing be upped to Elvira levels? Elvira isn't a standard Stern game (can't remember the verbiage) and she gets a commission of sort on each game sold.
If they are increasing pricing on Stranger Things, all premium Stern pins are headed that direction as well
Quoted from TigerLaw:Just to clarify: I meant pricing on the second hand market for the premium STH with the light kit is reaching Elvira levels quickly (by the end of May is my guess)...Not that what stern will be charging NIB for them “if” they run it again.
Gotcha. The question is, when or if they will be doing another run?...
Quoted from Pinchild:Very doubtful you will ever see GNR flooded and going for cheaper as it's one of the best pinballs ever made.
Fact they already when up 1k and are still selling.
How are the playfields? I'm not in the market for a GNR as the theme doesn't interest me but I heard from a local pinhead there may be ongoing JJP issues. If so, the value of the unlucky ones may nor hold up.
Quoted from romulusx:Do you guys get paid to run this issue up the flagpole from time to time?GnR Game of the Year!!!!
No but I'll do it more if you want to pay me.
I don't know if there is anything to it for GNR but we all know it jas been an issue for many JJP and Stern owners over the past several years. Downplaying and pretending otherwise I guess can be reassuring unless you're one of the unlucky ones that spent 6k + for a new item that had a serious defect out of the box.
Quoted from John_I:And there is the 800 pound gorilla that many just can't see. The word "look". WOZ is a great LOOKING game but it shoots like crap. What a clunker, not to mention the reliability and quality issues it had for the first few years... Worst NIB experience I have had by far.
Agreed. I had an loaded early run standard WOZ that had all the mods. Supposedly, all the problematic non buffered original boards were replaced by JJP for the original owner with buffered boards. He installed them so I figured it would be safer and took the plunge.
Big mistake. After ten months of the replacement buffered board going out, calls to JJP tech support, and finally being asked to buy their new led kit to fix it, I sold it and took my losses.
Not only was it a maintenance headache and nightmare, like you said, the game was a clunker. It was beautiful to look at but I rarely had the urge to turn it on and play it.
1 week later
Quoted from zr11990:Star Wars and Munsters
Yep. Easy decision.
Quoted from Pinkitten:I agree, JJP showed Stern that if you pack a game to the rafters (there are no rafters on pinball machines) and build high-end pins, you can charge double. I bought a NIB WOZ in 2016 for $9200 with shipping. But man, was that game ever loaded with toys, mechs, etc. I kept it 4 years and it was amazing, even if I lost interest in playing it much. But Stern doesn’t build pins like that, imho. They just keep raising the price because the market is saturated with buyers now more than ever. People with more time at home the past year, looking for a hobby. That’s my guess, anyway. If this market holds, we are going to see prices continue to rise until pins are sitting in boxes, unsold.
It is definitely headed that direction. Covid isn't going to last forever and discretionary income spending is going to shift away from the home. Stern would be wise to slow down on the price hikes.
Quoted from Jaybird815:This is why I doubt a Rush pin will be made, not too popular outside of North America. Every time this comes up everyone on pinside from Europe and Australia says “Who?” Lol
Not too popular for some of us in North America as well
Quoted from chubtoad13:Does anyone know the code names before the game is released anymore? What’s the code name for Mando?
Looks like BTTF was the code name for Mandalorian. I'm out on Mandalorian but would be in on a BTTF pin.
2 months later
Quoted from gambit3113:Has anybody priced a new fence lately? Up 40%. A new home build? Holy shit is wood and other materials expensive. Knickknacks and manufactured parts that need a ride on a slow boat? Price hike due to logjams in canals, COVID labor shortages on the seas and on the docks, and general fuckery all around right now. Priced a used auto lately? Unobtanium. Everything is expensive.
But everyone make sure to ignore those facts and act REAL astonished when Stern adjusts their prices in line with any other inflation on any other manufactured item.
Insert "Yeah, but" argument re: prices you already didn't like below:
Price on wood is actually back down to pre Covid levels.
Quoted from MasterBlaster:I feel like the used market could also be a driver. As long as there isn’t too much of a gap between new and used, it’s a smart move for them. Especially if the guys down the street are doing the same thing. That being said, if they implement a price increase and then the pricing in the used market starts to decline significantly…well, there might be ‘trouble in River City’ as the old song goes. I don’t see that happening, but these are the most unpredictable of times.
Well my salary isn’t even coming close to keeping up with inflation and these type of price hikes. Unless Stern is significantly upping their quality and bells and whistles, I’m out out on any future releases.
Quoted from Pincrazy:I’ll take any BTTF game with original footage! G
Yes he did! Grail game for me and I really hope so.
Not sure how I feel about Borg do8ng BTTF if that rumor is true. Not sure his style of game is a great match for the theme.
1 week later
Quoted from mbrave77:everything is going up right now including Sterns cost to build/ship the games. Im sure theres some more profit in there for them as well, but I get it. Im hoping a small portion of this goes to increased bom for more stuff as well(doubt it).
Totall wishful thinking. Stern increases prices every year and their quality just gets worse.
I get some parts have gone up and the need for some increase. However, at the same time, wood prices are normalizing.
This is primarily a huge cash grab by Stern. Unless a can't miss title with all the bells and whistles comes out, Im out on any NIB Stern purchases.
Quoted from Wolfanoz:Got a weird feeling part of the price increase is the newer movie license games impending other than inflation causing prices of materials (and keeping the employment force around).
I doubt it. Some materials have gone up some but other major build materials like wood are back down. This is a cash grab IMO.
Stern's quality and licensing won't change or improve. They may be able to get away with these huge price hikes in the short term but I predict it will come back to bite them in the ass in the long term.
Demand and pricing on these type of non essential, entertainment items is not inelastic even if pinball manufacturers are acting as if they are these days.
Quoted from transprtr4u:boy those $7777.00 Aliens are looking great now !
Except they just raised their price $800 this week. I am reevaluating whether I can justify a NIB purchase again.
These increases are just too much. Too many other inflationary pressures on my paycheck for items that are necessities and more important.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Going forward that reader and board will be in all games - has to add to game costs.
We will be paying for it even if we don't use it.
I would have rather had another spinner, pop bumper or something adding to actual gameplay.
Agreed. I dont even want the feature.
4 months later
Quoted from Daditude:This is just a no-brainer. The art, music, video clips, possible modes, tours...and then add in their stage presence which could be highlighted through the artistic style of the pin.
Why this pin hasn't been made yet is beyond me.
It is being made. Pinball Bros. has the license and it will be their second game after the Alien remake.
1 month later
Quoted from John_I:Joe K does one Kapow game with Stern roughly every 2-3 years. The next Kapow game is not BTTF. Not saying BTTF is not coming, just don't hold your breath because it is at best well over two years out. Elvira came out in 2019 and the next Kapow isn't until after Venom. So if BTTF is to show up it will most likely not be until fall of 2024 at the earliest.
Just curious, do you have inside infornation to support these statements? If not, they fall into the opinion and conjecture category like the bulk of comments in this thread. None of us really know when and what the next Kapow title will be but with the musical in the works, I wouldn't be too surprised if it is his next game.
Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
1 week later
Quoted from The_Director:If they do Bond, do you think it will be like Connery era Bond, or taking the Daniel Craig 5 movie stand alone and working with that?
Hoping for the latter...
3 weeks later
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Duran Duran:-
Yes, finally a non metal head pin would be a nice change and a music pin I would consider.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Billygrippo:Which would sell more….
Motley Crue, or Megadeth?
Is there a none of the above option?
1 month later
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Wow, that’s wild. I didn’t know Mormons could even go into bars. Learn something new everyday.
Sounds like you don't get out too often. Eithrr that or you embrace willful ignorance and stereotyping.
The reviews for Top Gun Maverick are indicating it is very good and going to be another blockbuster. If the license was obtainable, I am still surprised this is a theme Stern hasn't done or pursued. Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think Top Gun (no, F14 isn't the same thing) would be a great pinball theme and I'd be all over it.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Why because I would have been indoctrinated? That makes sense haha. I bet I’d love the military if I were made to, yes.
Mormons, military... any other groups you want to marginalize or stereotype today?... and btw, you have been indoctrinated, you just don't realize it. That is the biggest irony here.
Frankly, I could care less what you think of Top Gun and its military overtones. It would make a great pinball theme and those that would pass on it for your stated reasons would be a tiny minority. Beats another super hero pin.
Quoted from jpd632:I’m over sequels to movies that came out almost 40 years ago. Everyone of them has been a massive letdown. Too many winks at the audience, fan service writing, actors phoning it in. I bet Miles Teller sings You lost that loving feeling at some point. Lame.
Reviews don’t mean anything , most of those come from people who will blow the movie company just to see stuff early at screeners. I can’t see people under 30 giving too much of a shit about this movie. Especially not to have a pinball machine about it.
Well, how many under 30 are into pinball and have the money to purchase a 7-10k pinball machine? If your premise is no one under 30 cares or would buy a Top Gun themed pinball machine, why does Stern keep cranking out 70's and 80's hair and hard rock themed pins? Nostalgia sells and it has been that way for some time.
As for your thoughts on the movie, well the typically cynical critic crowd doesn't seem to share that view:
Quoted from jpd632:Question 1: I don't keep up with other people's financial situations. I do Know that movies dont make money without people under 30.
Question 2: The songs from those bands are played in sport events, movies, shows, video games and comercials. Thats how those bands stay relevent with young people and stay alive in the minds of people like you.
I think the OG Top Gun is an overrated movie that relys more on happy memories of 3-4 scenes than the actual film being "good". But thats just my opinon. Once again I think all of the 80's "comeback" Films have been kind of shit and have ruined some of the magic of the old films.
So glad they are NOT gonna do Goonies 2. Who wants to see the fat hobbit go back to Oregon?
So you are saying Stern is selling a lot of band and 80's themed pins to the under 30 demographic because they are playing Metallica, Iron Maiden, RUSH, etc at sporting events, etc? Sorry, I can't recall the last time I heard sings from most of the afore mentioned bands anywhere but classic rock radio stations.
I just don't buy the argument Stern is deciding on themes and licenses based on their appeal to the 30-35 and under demographic. Sure they'd like to appeal to the younger group as well to create a market for the future but their bread and butter is still most of us who grew up in the 70's, 80's, or 90's and most of their theming (outside of the Disney supee hero stuff) reflects that.
If you don't like Top Gun, fine. There are a lot of us that would love the theme and buy it in a heartbeat... and don't be surprised if this new Top Gun movie is one of the summers biggest blockbusters and draws in the 20 and 30 something crowd as well
Quoted from jpd632:Whatever you say. Enjoy Utah.
I do. Best skiing and outdoors scene in the country and five great national parks as well. One of the prettiest states in the country.
Feel free to address my points or refute them. There are a lot of movies I don't like and wouldn't buy if themed as a pin as well but thay doesn't mean they wouldn't make good pins and sell well.
Quoted from Zartan:Boomers know best!
I am Gen X so I get to sit back and watch the miilineals and boomers point fingers and blame each other for the countries problems and issues.
Quoted from petrieslastword:You must really not go to any sporting events at all, because Metallica and Rush are mainstays. I'm not saying that's enough to sell people on a pinball machine, but the music from those bands (outside of Iron Maiden) is still everywhere.
I would wager that it's that age bracket that's buying a lot of the Deadpool/Avengers/etc though, as those characters and their major appeal was very much for an under 40 age bracket right now. Deadpool was a character almost no one was even aware of until the late '90s and 2000s, and Infinity War was a '90s comic arc.
I'm only 36 years old and I'm certainly having no issue buying these, and all of my friends who both buy machines for home and support them on location are around my age or honestly younger.Anyone who doesn't think that a Harry Potter pin would do gangbusters in sales is very out of touch. It's a franchise people plan their entire vacation around and spend thousands of dollars just to go on a trip for a few days and immerse themselves in Hogwarts, and you can rest assured that those same people in many cases would make this their first and only pinball machine.
It would be a lot like how KISS fans have a KISS pinball machine and no other machines. These fans have that level of dedication.
I myself would not buy one at this point because I don't want to give JK Rowling anymore support based on her troubling stances, but that's simply a personal decision my wife and I have made and we realize the franchise is still one of the biggest in the world.
You are 36. He said 30 and under wouldn't generally be interested in watching Top Gun.
I would honestly be interested to know Stern's buyer demographics. My guess is mostly 35+ skewing more 40+ but we'll never know for sure. would also be interesed in knowing if any here active in this forum that have purchased one or more NIB pinball machines are under 30?... I'm sure there are a few but my guess is not many.
Quoted from petrieslastword:I was replying specifically to the claim that that music doesn't play everywhere, because in fact songs like YYZ and enter sandman are constantly played at sporting events. You'd be hard-pressed to go to a football or hockey game and not hear those songs.
I admittedly don't attend hockey games and the pro baskerball and college events I do attend don't play them. Doesn't mean they don't elsewhere, just not in my neck of the woods.
That aside, I still don't think Sterns rock pins have broad appeal to a younger demographic which is my original point. My guess is most buyers of those pins likely skew 40+. If Stern wanted to target the 35 and under group with music pins, they'd likely be selecting other licences and groups IMO.
Quoted from richierich85:Guys it's a comic vemon pinball and a jaws pinball are two next titles.... I have personally seen the art package for both titles, and I am not at liberty to discuss how, who, when I was shown and my source from inside stern factory.. thanks
I'll file this one under more unsubstantiated rumors but for discussions sake, lets say Venom is the next title. How many would be interested? I know I would be out.
1 week later
"However, I had multiple games where I completed everything in the code and sold the house by ball 2. So I sold the game."
The internet and social media is great, isn't it? Here some can be the best pinball players in the world, have super hot girlfriends/wives, and be multimillionnaires (or billionnaires) all while typing from the comfort of a parent's basement.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Proofs in the pudding smarty pants. Go look at my scores. I log em on here with photos. Also, I own a home and I do in fact have what would be considered an attractive partner. Would you like to see my mortgage payment? Some photos of my partner? Ok…moving on them.
[quoted image]
LOL... no, that won't be necessary. I'll take you at your word, insecurities and all .
Quoted from TigerLaw:Zero. The new Top Gun was not a guaranteed success and Stern doesn’t really like making games off of stand alone movies these days. Stern did not have Top Gun licensed and ready to go.
Will they make one going forward based on both films? The movie should be the hit of the summer and I maintain it makes a very good pinball theme. Soundtrack of the original is pretty good as well.
There was a discussion here last week on the topic of Top Gun as a possible future theme. A few bashed it saying the younger pin crowd wouldn't embrace or buy it because it is an dad's era theme. Of note from opening weekend demographics, 45% appear to be 35 or younger which suggests the theme would have broader appeal then some may think.
"Updated demos are 58% guys, 42% women. The under-35 repped 45%, which is promising, considering that the sequel is appealing to a wider demo. Those over 35 repped 55%, while the 18-34 segment repped 37% of attendance. Diversity demos were 66% Caucasian, 16% Latino and Hispanic, 7% African American, and 7% Asian".
Quoted from screaminr:It was a good movie but it won't beat Thor and Jurassic Park
Maybe but I'm so tired of comic book/super hero movies. I passed on Dr. Strange and will likely pass on Thor as well.
Not sure on JP. If it gets decent reviews, I'll see it. It may exceed Top Gun but it is a tired franchise at this point IMO. Either way, as a pin theme, it has already been done.
Quoted from screaminr:The general public isn't sick of superhero movies .
I think Jurassic Park will beat Thor .
There's no reason why Top Gun wouldn't make a good pin but a cartoon version of it wouldn't cut it .
Will be interesting to see if those films do exceed Top Gun. It is Cruises biggest opening movie ever and 2nd biggest Memorial Day movie of all time. Word of mouth and those seeing it a second time in theatre may help it continue momentum for at least a few more weeks.
If those other movies do better at the box office, it may be the fact China will allow them be screened (unlike Top Gun). Of course, their government needs to let people leave their apartments or homes first for that to happen.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/29/media/top-gun-maverick-box-office/index.html
Quoted from screaminr:Well .. Doctor Strange is down the bottom of the Marvel Superheroes and it got more than Top Gun and it wasn't shown in China as well .[quoted image]
I get some love super hero movies. I am just tired of them personally. It is surprising to me, though, that people keep paying to see super hero movies based on C level comic characters that all seem the same after a while.
I guess I was hoping after the Avengers movies Hollywood would start getting back to creating novel stuff and trying to be more creative. No incentive I guess when all they have to do is a resurrect some obscure, 3rd rate super hero most of us had never heard of and make a movie out if it.
Quoted from big-c66:So from what I’m still hearing VENOM is the next pin in August to be released.
Lets hope not. Unless Stern pulls another rabbit out of their hat, I think it would be a mediocre selling title.
Quoted from kool1:Knapp Arcade says Bond today!
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/rumor-george-gomez-james-bond-is-stern-pinball-s-next-game
Bond or BTTF are the titles I'd be excited about.
Quoted from jpd632:Last few Disney/Marvel flicks were banned in China. Strange, Eternals, Shang Chi all banned. All made buckets of money in the states and other non-bigoted countires, kinda saved theaters post-lockdown IMO. Thor will 100% be banned due to China being anti-LGBTQ. These movies are not Citizen Kane or Godfather but they really try to give positive messages and tell compelling stories. Been reading comics since 87, this is a golden age. Some are good. some are shit but all in all its better than most of the blockbuster crap of the 90s and early 00s. Wild Wild West? Every "End of the World movies of 2012"? Keep em. Make mine Marvel.
Wild Wild West? Now that is just cherry picking the worst of the worst.
I get the super hero genre is still popular. I think Disney is making the mistake they did with Star Wars, though: over saturating the market which is starting to lead to fatigue and may backfire. Time will tell but I'm not the only one with this opinion.
https://morningconsult.com/2021/12/06/marvel-superhero-film-fatigue/
Quoted from Geeterman1:Do we think it would be a Daniel Craig theme or somehow span the entire collection of movies?
Interested to see how they build out a Bond theme…
The entire franchise woukd be cool but the licensing dynamics required and cost probably make it unlikely. I'm guessing a Connery or Craig themed machine with personal preference leaning towards the newer Craig films.
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Bond is the title that Steve Ritchie was working on when he left Stern. The Whitewood was done and I liked the way it shot. Unsure of what the artwork looks like since it was not completed when Steve left Stern.
Someone mentioned Gomez picked up his project when he left. Hopefully he added his own stuff or redesigned some of it. I have to be honest in saying I haven't been a huge fan of Ritchie's last 3-4 pins.
Quoted from screaminr:Well .. Doctor Strange is down the bottom of the Marvel Superheroes and it got more than Top Gun and it wasn't shown in China as well .[quoted image]
Revisiting this discussion. Top Gun Maverick is already at 561 million globally two weeks in. At this point it won't be surprising if it passes Dr. Strange and Batman and is the blockbuster and biggest earning film of the summer.
Obviously it is drawing audiences beyond the 35+ demographic. C'mon Stern, we need a Top Gun pin based on both films
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/media/top-gun-maverick-box-office-second-weekend/index.html
Quoted from petrieslastword:Expect that draw to end with the new Jurassic World next week.
There will definitely be a sizeable drop but still a good chance it makes over a billion globally... I can all but guarantee it will be a better movie than JP.
My point is Top Gun would still make a great pinball theme and popular enough to sell well.
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:So I’m the only one who feels the Jurassic movies are played out and tired ? Ill watch watch at home - no desire to pay to see it at the theater . Enough already
Nope. I have a JP premium and love the pin and theme. However, I am with you in that like most Marvel movies, I've grown tired of the JP movies as well.
I am up in the air on whether I'll pay to see it on theatres. If I do, I certainly not in any rush and will wait 4-5 weeks.
Quoted from zh2oson:I'm thoroughly enjoying this almost 50 year-old novel:
[quoted image]
Apparently, there's a new mini-series in development at FX. If that lights the world on fire, maaaayyybe??
I read the book years ago and saw the miniseries years ago as well. It would be cool if FX is remaking it.
The story of the English ship captain (anjin) is fiction but the context is based on actual Japanese history. Ieyasu Tokugawa consolidated power and brought the feudal Japanese daimyo samurai to heel thus becoming Japan's first Shogun (Tokugawa shogunate)
It was at that time he moved the capital from Kyoto to Edo (Tokyo) and banned foreigners and trade (known as the sakoku jidai or closed period in Japanese history). This was born of fear the Europeans would use Christianity and their militaries to colonize Japan.
The film The Last Samurai was based on the period in the 1860's-80's when Japan was forced to reopen its borders to US and foreign trade. They soon realized they had fallen so far behind the west technologically they rapidly industriallzed and hired military advisors from the US and Europe to train and modernize their military. That essentially marked the end of the samurai era.
Sorry, I love history but as a pinball theme, I'm not sure it works .
Quoted from Grantman:They could definitely sell more Stranger Things. The reviews were mediocre when it first came out (from what I recall) and by the time they finished the code and people were saying it was really good, it was out of production. I'd like to get a premium myself but I'm not paying $12k (if you can find it) for what was a $7400 game new 2 years ago.
A lot of games were $7400 two years ago including GB premiums. Stern isn’t making any more Stranger Things and it is now a sought after game. There just weren’t many premiums made either. Simple supply and demand.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:Or the Jurassic Park movie dropping tomorrow turns out to be a massive hit instead of a massive...[quoted image]
From the reviews I’ve read, it appears to be a massive pile of $!:t.
Quoted from screaminr:I saw it tonight and it was a great popcorn movie . Lots of dinosaurs and action , everything you would expect .
I'm sure some will like it. I own a JP.premium and have always liked the the theme and first movie so no hatchet to grind here. That doesn't change the fact this one appears to be one of if not the worst of the JP franchise.
I will probably pass on it in the theatres based on what I"ve read and heard from friends. I can always watch JP at home when it eventually is available to stream. I'll use the money I save to see Top Gun: Maverick again while it is still in theatres
Quoted from screaminr:That didn't take long
[quoted image]
The only surprise there would have been if it hadn't. Top Gun is in its 3rd week. JP also opened in China a market where Top Gun will never be screened
What will be interesting is how JP fares from here. Top Gun apparently significantly outperformed in its second and third weeks, in large part due to positive reviews and word of mouth. Dominion has the opposite problem... it is a stinker.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Gomez Bond seems like a sure thing. Joe K. just did up a Bond car and has the license. He wants a pinball game to go with his Bond car. Look for October Bond release as a Kamikow/Stern boutique pinball offering. They seem to be on track repeating licenses they’ve done in the past. JP, BTTF, Golden Eye/Bond, TMNT, Avengers, the patterns there. It’s happening, now is it Golden Eye like they did before???
ZY/Eddie Venom is next up in August. Year might end or first year release, with Team Elwin Jaws, imo.
Stern has already announced there would only be one more new title this year, likely in the August timeframe. Are you suggesting that has now changed and there will now be two? If I’m a betting man, I’d wager on Bond in August.
Quoted from screaminr:I don't rely on reviews to tell me what I do and do not like .
I usually wait until I have seen a movie before deciding whether it's crap or not .
I have heard it primarily from friends who saw it this past weekend. If you liked it, great. I'm saving my money for something I'll likely enjoy more.
Quoted from zaki:Thoughts.. Bond, great theme despite last movie. Sort of ruins things, if you saw it you know what I mean. Hopefully Bond would be based on dainal Craig movies
Venom..also a reat theme for sure. Monsters, super hero = good themes.
Bttf and jaws...please don't. Old movies, so outdated.
Venom... please don't.
Quoted from qbass187:Agreed. I don’t know what people were expecting. I actually loved it!!
I may go see it again. #SweetDinoAction
Everyone will have a different opinion but for every positive opinion I've heard about the film, I'm hearing 2-3 negative.
It has a 30% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I don't always listen to critics when deciding on whether to see a movie but ratings that bad 95% of the time mean the movie is a stinker. I'll wait to watch it for free on Amazon in 8 months.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Technically the DOD. The “Department of Defense entertainment media office” more specifically. I don’t understand the need for people to downvote commonly known facts. Bit odd but…um…do as thou wilt. Most military related films get equipment funding and script privileges which basically turns these films in to recruitment “films” at the very least and propaganda films at the most. Top Gun is specifically listed among “Popular American propaganda films” along with Casablanca and hundreds of others. This is not an opinion of mine. You can take a class on this in film school for crying out loud haha.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/05/27/top-gun-maverick-us-military/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_propaganda_films
Who cares. It is a nostalgic and entertaining movie. There have been many military films over the years you would classify as "propaganda." What scares you so much about anything that paints our country or any aspect of he US military in a positive manner?
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Deleted post
Well comrade, I will at least give you credit for admitting you are indoctrinated and a communist. I'd respect you a lot more, though, if you walk the walk and give away all your pinball machines or at least make your location free play for all.
2 weeks later
Quoted from RA77:Well that's it then,
KME jaws confirmed.
Unless its a decoy
It is a decoy. Stern would have his head for leaking that unless it is a decoy by design.
Quoted from frankmac:Most importantly I hope Stern does not walk the same plank JJP did with price increases on Toy Story 4 . It is hard to lower your price point down after you set it on the moon.
I think Stern is realizing the prices have likely topped out. The problem is with inflationary pressures, they will be tempted to raise prices again.
Pinball companies may be at a crossroads as inflation takes its toll and people pull back on large purchases, particularly those of a recreational nature like pinball machines. The coming months and releases will tell but I predict a slowdown.
Quoted from kool1:I wish but sadly - game and license will not be back.
Agreed. The license for whatever reason ended quickly. I doubt we see it again.
Quoted from kool1:Stern is a business and if their costs go up and they don't think they are temporary increases they will have to raise prices. They can't operate at a loss.
The good news is we are seeing some commodity and transport costs falling a little so hopefully they can hold the line. I have a feeling we will still see some increases soon though.
I get that but they would be wise to hold the line if possible. More price increases are inevitably going to negatively impact sales of future pins.
We are headed into a recession IMO and many are increasingly stretched thin just paying for necessities like food and gas. Just economic reality.
Quoted from jfh:Agree. But no one buying any NIB pin is going to stretched thin buying food and gas.
I think you'd be surprised. Even if they don't, it doesn't mean buyers aren't going to pull back at these prices. I know I'm on the fence on current pricing and am likely out on NIB with any additional increases.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Yup yup yup yup!!!
On that note! Can they make another Stranger things Pin?
Yes they can! Come on Stern. The first one was not a terrible pin but theme integration was awful, the right orbit leading nowhere. Just a lame pin imho for today’s standards.
It is a shame! Season 4 is outstanding, the characters finally flourished in depth and vecna is a real villain I would be keen in defeating rather than a lame ass demagorgon.
Total miss on Stern!
Same with Mando.
I have 10 pins, many in the top 30 including MMr and GZ. Stranger Things is my favorite. Theme integration with the UV kit and latest code (w/Cleland's code) is excellent.
I had heard Netflix was a difficult licensee to work with which may explain why the game was only made for 18-24 months. Sorry, I don't think we'll see another St. Things pin or remake.
Quoted from jfh:Well if this is true I’ve probably bought my last NIB Stern. I’ve gotten to the point I’m essentially out of room and I can’t imagine another theme Stern would do that would tempt me other than BTTF. Disappointing but I can’t really complain.
I wouldn't read too much into these comments. I don't pretend to have any inside info but typically in life, where there is smoke, there is fire. This rumor has been too persistent for me to believe it won't happen some time in the next few years.
Meh. Good thing is I won't be tempted to buy a NiB Stern this year.
Quoted from LoveNeverDiesGuy:Public knowledge just spotted on
San Diego Comic Con site.
[quoted image]
Can Ozzy read or write? I honestly thought he had so few brain cells left from years of heavy drug use, he waa basically a vegetable at this point.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Afm is the better game. Stth is still ok.
Ymmv
Maybe from a nostalgia standpoint. St. Things is a modern pin with vastly superior audio, lighting, and code. Everyone has their personal preferences but I disagree AFM is better. St. Things as a modern pin based on a popular contemporary theme has far more lastability in a home environment.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Not for me. I had Stth premium. Gone. Would take AFM any day. It is just the better game for me, more fun, better flow, just checks all the boxes.
Stth, terrible geometry, drop down targets to close to the flippers, right orbit that goes one way to the poppers, meh. The music and the sounds in the game are bad, there is a lot of silence in the game actually and the energy of the game is just too dark, I get it, horror theme... This game was made 3 years too soon, if it was made today it would be incredible awesome with the amount of much cooler assets this franchise has now.
This discussion is kind of pointless as it is all subjective. If you think the music and sounds are bad, though, you must have never played it with Cleland's code. With that upgrade, the music and sound is one of the game's biggest strength's and beats AFM in spades.
As for your commentary the game would be better with season 3/4 assets, how do you reconcile that comment while stating it was too dark of a pin with season 1 & 2 assets? Season 4 was by far the darkest, most violent, and most horror oriented of the series. Seems contradictory and inconsistent.
Quoted from Knapp_Arcade:What if the next Stern pin isn't Venom?
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/stern-pinball-s-next-release-why-venom-why-not-another-todd-mcfarlane-ip
[quoted image]
If not Venom, most of us will be very happy.
Quoted from Hayfarmer:I would love that, maiden is a great game, I just don't like their music. Only reason I sold
Only reason I have not and never will buy one. Use the layout on a better theme and I’d be in.
Quoted from haiderdj:Any convincing theories why Ozzie & McFarlane would be at Stern's Comicon booth if it's NOT a Venom or Spawn or Ozzy pin???
Diversion tactics. Stern does stuff like that frequently. The good thing is if that is indeed the next game, I won't have to worry about coming up with the money gor a NIB Stern this year.
Quoted from MasterBlaster:So maybe I dreamed reading this somewhere recently, but (besides the obvious ailments) is Ozzy’s health declining? Maybe he’s not long for this world, so they put the machine that he’s involved with to be the next release? Sort of like they did with BM66 and Adam West…get it pushed out while he’s still around to say something about it.
Is his health declining? It has been declining since the 80’s due to alcohol and drug abuse. He now also has Parkinson’s. Frankly., given his lifestyle over the years, it is a minor miracle he has lasted this long.
Quoted from Kkoss24:WTF happened to the Venom eating Ozzy eating Jaws pin ?
Thankfully it appears it was all a diversionary tactic and rumor. Bring on Bond, James Bond.
1 week later
Quoted from Sugar:[quoted image]
My reaction to a Ozzie or BlackmSabbath pin well.
1 week later
Quoted from honkbahh:That's good to hear. We've got young kids and my wife knows we're waiting for an Elvira House of Horrors, but she hasn't realized/remembered who Elvira is. Gonna be RREEAALLYY awkward when it shows up. Best case she makes me put a post-it or something to cover up.
Just do what I did, make Elvira change dresses when younger children or family are over
20220815_151824 (resized).jpgQuoted from thekaiser82:Ha. How did you do that? Did you modify the art anywhere else on the game?
It is just a small cut out of black craft type paper with tape. I can take it off or put it on anytime. It is tucked in between my Stranger Things and IJ.
Plenty of cleavage once the game starts so I figure no big deal if I swap out dresses in the backglass depending on company .
Quoted from Gribbs:All of the freakout over children seeing CLEAVAGE…I can’t imagine what happens when these poor kids finally see a woman in a bathing suit in public! Oh, the HORROR!
You do you, we'll do us. I like the game, just think the backglass is a little over the top. I have some younger nieces, nephews, and neighbors over on occasion and it is just something we choose to do.
All it is is a small cut out of black craft paper that tapes on. Comes on and off easily. Lighten up and live and let live.
Quoted from Jamesays:Now its live and let live huh.Your pretty easy to knock colors for a Sabbath pin.
What? All I’ve said on that topic is my reaction to that pin would be the same as others that bagged on another proposed band pin. You are mad about me not liking the band and having the audacity to express the fact I’d have no interest in that theme? What does that have to do with the Elvira discussion? Not following your logic here at all.
Quoted from Jamesays:its your Ehoh and your kids ,Nothing wrong with your choice.
Again, I have no idea what point you’re making. Two different things.
Quoted from mpdpvdpin:Mehhhhh, Alice Cooper is of that era but unique in that he’s the first shock rocker with lots of proto punk and glam elements . So I wouldn’t ever really lump him in with Dad rock. Same with Sabbath being proto-metal. Also…ACNC is less a “music pin” than a haunted house pin. The music is secondary to the concept. AND…it’s one of the greatest pins ever made second only to IMDN which is also not Dad Rock and I’ve also owned.
Nope. Definitely grandpa rock.
1 week later
Quoted from Thunderbird:And you are right, as Franchi also said, just wait till October before spending your money. He knows that Bond is coming since he’s the artist for a Kapow/Stern boutique release. Mid September announcement with October delivery. Will have possibly an SLE, just like Stern/Kapow Bat66 did. And its going to be Thunderball. Joe K. had a Thunderball Austin Martin built with Franchi doing artwork for and in the car as well. It’s coming and will be a Gomez design. Look to have some fun toys related to the movie as well. LEs will be going up in value straight away, since we are finally getting a mature theme from the pinball industry. Franchi artwork will be killer good. Bond will win game of the year with a dream team designer lineup, imo.
Thunderball? I'm a Bond fan but why on earth would they choose that movie with so many other films to choose from? Give me Casino Royale or Skyfall if it is a one film only game.
Quoted from swinks:what if the game is SPECTRE and you the player is James Bond and you have to defeat 8 villains (1 for each tentacle) and then head of the organisation.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Even though characters like Jaws may not have fallen under an organisation it could be a cool way to link all the villains in one game and then have a generic bond - all the faces morphed together
[quoted image]
Way better idea than a Thunderball themed pin.
Quoted from J85M:Daniel Craig will likely keep it from being a modern Bond. We all know Stern like to save pennies where they can and Connery is a cheaper licence than Craig will be, he’s notoriously difficult and expensive to negotiate with, the guys a complete asshole from those I know who have dealt with him in person in a professional capacity, his egos only matched by the pay cheque he demands.
That is disappointing to hear. I've really liked most of the Craig Bond films. I was hoping for a modern Bond themed pin. Thunderball was made before I was even born and just doesn't get me very excited.
Quoted from J85M:Thunderball makes sense as firstly it must be cheaper than Goldfinger, it’s also well loved by Bond fans, it is the Bond movie that introduced the now legendary silhouette opening credits, you have the jet pack escape scene (pinball gold!) add in the db5 which was featured in the movie and Stern could animate scenes to incorporate all of its gadgets:
• Revolving Number Plates
• GPS Dashboard
• Arm Rest Controls
• Tire Slashers
• Smoke Screen
• Oil Slick
• Rear Bullet-Proof Screen
• Front Wing Machine Guns
• Ejector Seat
Oh and you have the escape man eating shark tank scene to use another cheesy pinball code moment!
I'll save my money for BTTF or Top Gun
Quoted from V8haha:I tend to agree. As an operator I’m not super excited about this theme. I’m sure they will do cartoon artwork which will help but still. Venom would have been better for location play.
But Bond will sell much better to home buyers.
Quoted from NashtyFunk:I guess I gotta hope the price increase is minimal (under $500).
Did I miss the price increase announcement? If so, I'm out on NIB. 9k for a premium was pushing it. Anything above that is way too much.
Stern is going to start seeing this hurt their sales. With people increasingly stretched paying for necessities like food and gas, I don't see how it doesn't. Sure there is a segment of the pinball cimmunity so wealthy they'll keep playing along but atca certain point, it is time to say no mas.
I am going to predict a Stern rebate syatem 6-12 months from now. They are going to have a lot of inventory and pissed off distributors.
.
Quoted from Fezmid:I'll be pissed if they increase the price on existing games - I put a deposit down on February for GZ Pre and shouldn't have to pay more when it comes next year. Hopefully that's just a nasty rumor.
Sadly, history shows they'll raise it for everything. That is the Stern way.
Quoted from jawjaw:That and people are gladly paying higher msrp prices. Stern cannot make games fast enough and even had to put off releasing games trying to catch up. The highest priced games (LE's) sell out almost instantly these days. People are already putting money down on Bond without even seeing the game.
Lets revisit these points 6-12 months from now. I'll wager a good sum the market will be in a much different place.
Quoted from jawjaw:Bubble burst is right around the corner? That's crazy! You should start a pricing thread with that fresh take.
I didn't mention a bubble. I do think inflation is going to impact NIB sales in the next 6-12 months, particularly if Stern continues with price increases. It is already happening with Toy Story.
Demand for high end toys like pinball machines isn't price inelastic. Like I said, lets revisit this conversation in 6-12 months.
Quoted from NoSkills:Stern doesn’t do non refundable deposits like the other manufacturers. Any deposit at a distro for a Stern should be refundable if there’s a price increase. If they say it’s not go to a different distro.
More like if they say it is not, have your lawyer give them a call.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:So…
…what‘s next?
Venom. Always good to get a game and theme that will give the wallet a rest
Quoted from Damonator:Let's be clear - the TS4CE price had nothing to do with inflation. It was 100% money grab and I hope it bites them in the rear. Unless they wake up and bring back the magic that once defined their brand, I'm done with them.
It is biting them in the rear. If Stern gets greedy, it will them as well.
7 months later
Quoted from Pinplayer1967:On location I seriously doubt it would even draw attention from her fans. Lame title.
Horrible title, actually. Teenage girls are not the pinball targeted demographic
Quoted from Grantman:1) How well did that work for Bond LE? Yeah, they were completely "sold out" at launch, also.
2) Why not just make the games $20K? Because even at current prices, they are running out of customers. There are plenty of other games that you can buy for less: Pulp Fiction for $10k, Scooby for $10k or less, Cactus Canyon, Galactic Tank Force, Fathom, Spinal Tap, or a thousand existing titles, or buy a Pro/Premium instead of an LE. Nobody has unlimited room or money, and there are only so many people that can spend $10k on a toy.
My advice: Don't push your luck, Stern.
I've already backed away from any NIB purchases. The economy is slowing and most NIB games depreciate 1k as soon as purchased at current prices. It will only get worse with more price increases.
Quoted from John_I:Looks pretty sure that Venom is finally up next. All signs point to this as the game that got skipped during the Covid slowdown, so it should be pretty far along as far as tweaking mechs, ball traps and software updates! The other rumor that I doubt is true, was the music will now be supplied by Ozzie?
This is a hard pass for me as is basically any Marvel beside Deadpool. If the game has Ozzie music from the Randy Rhoads era I might reconsider!
The premium/LE for this game will be worth 2k less than MSRP the minute it is purchased. LE may not even sell out at these prices.
Quoted from RA77:Brian Eddy Venom with some Ozzy sound tracks.
I'll bet 24hr sell out for the LE easy.
Maybe but they'll be worth 2k less within a few months of purchase.. Venom is a weak theme and Stern and other manufactures pricing has gotten out of hand. I've decided I'll let others take the hit buying NIB at these prices and buy any future games on the secondary market.
2 months later
Quoted from Rarehero:Your vitriol for Seth and sainthood for Gary is a bit weird. The Pro/Prem/LE concept come into being under Gary. Full featured pins went from ~$4000 in 2010 to $6000-$7000 under Gary just a few years later. Prices kept climbing year after year…it had zero to do with Seth. Remember Batman SLE for $15k? Pre-Seth. The company kept growing. They added a huge animation team, more programmers, more designers. Ultimately that’s what inched prices higher. They have people to pay.
The pinball market doesn’t function like normal products. There’s never been a “decent price”. To normies, pinball was unattainable when they were $4000 NIB. It’s a niche product with a niche audience who has proven they will pay crazy prices to own this particular product because they love it so much. Mainstream products have competition to keep prices down. Don’t wanna pay $10 for a sandwich? You can find a place to get one for $5…another for $3. That economy doesn't exist in pinball. If you MUST have a pinball, you’ll pay the price. If you can afford $10k, you can afford $12k. If you can afford $12k, you can afford $15k. No pinball company has suffered for their pricing. What kills then is manufacturing issues or just making bad themes/games. Stern hasn’t released a game that was universally viewed as terrible in a long time. They’re on a roll. As long as the product remains desirable, they have zero reason to question their pricing structure.
I disagree. I can afford a $10k pinball but I've just about had enough. The used market is demonstrating that most games at these price points are not holding their value. NIB buyers at least in this market are looking at a $1-2k$ hit depending on the title almost as soon as the game is purchased.
JJP has shown many buyers aren't willing to digest never ending price increases just because it is pinball. Stern is right behind them Stern's most recent price increase was the one that made me rethink the money I'm spending in this hobby.
Pinball companies got greedy during the pandemic when people were at home and flush with free manna from heaven (aka - government stimulus checks). Those days are over and I've talked with a distrubutors thet are starting to sit on a lot more inventory. If the goal was to kill the golden goose with short teem greed instead of a long term vision and strategy, pinball companies have been making the right pricing decisions in recent years.
Quoted from acupunk12:Premium market is really going to suffer the most. Either go all in on a LE or save your money and get the pro. Premiums are going to be so abundant because of that price and inexclusivity
LE's are suffering the same or more. I have talked with distributors sitting on Bond and/or Foo Fighters LE's they are struggling to sell. Stern got greedy during the pandemic flipping days thinking they wanted that cash for themselves and overpriced current LE's right as the market waa starting to slow.
At current price points, Steen shoukd consider going back to the 500 LE days. 1000 for every new title is a losing proposition IMO.
1 week later
Quoted from PinStalker:HAHAHAHAHAHA.... Each time a new game is coming, the pinheads say "I'm not buying - we're taking a stand!!!", then once the game pictures/video are released: the same people race to grab one ("I was going to say no - but they got me again" ).
It happened with Foo..... it happened with GF.... both times people said they were dumb themes and then couldn't help but gobble the LE's/CE's up within a day.
Venom is a better theme than those two (not a great theme, but a better one).
Really, the themes are only going to get a whole lot stronger from here on out. The pinball companies are going to step up themes because of the threat that outrageous prices can slow down their sales. They are not going to make better games, nor increase the BOM.... just have titles pinheads can't say no to (and open the door to even MORE price increases).
(Stern)
MOTU
BTTF
JAWS
Whatever VE (Tron, STH, Whatever)
(JJP)
Harry Potter
(Spooky)
Princess Bride
(Somebody)
Big Bang Bar
(AP)
Whitewater 2
The good news is the glut of these "must have" titles will put pressure on the overall second hand market. Sure, some people can spend whatever all these titles add up to (well over 100K), but many people will have to sell games to have the cash and room for the new ones.
I'd love to know the ratio of how many new games are "absorbed" into collections vs replacing already owned machines - but there's no way to know this.
For sure the increased production across the board will put some pressure on the second hard market: you can't inject twenty to sixty thousand machines a year into the market indefinitely without making a splash (especially if it's true Stern's new factory will pump out a thousand a week).
My bet is the NIB market is stronger than ever the next two years, and the second hard market absorbs whatever downward pressure is created (how big - I don't know).
I'm pretty much done with NIB save maybe a well done BTTF. Venom? Distributors are going to be sitting on 600+ LE's if Stern still thinks they can move 1000 on mediocre (at best) themed pins of this nature.
Stern has backed itself into a corner with their LE and premium pricing. They would have to hit a home run every theme and game to have any chance at moving all these machines in this market and these prices. We already know that from 007 & Foo Fighters which are good themes and/or games.
Quoted from PanzerKraken:What Stern LE has dealers been sitting on though? They all have essentially sold out, even if some clearly stay NIB or are being held for future flipping. Suddenly Venom is going to only sell 400 some LEs?
It's not dealers stuck with inventory, but buyers who are more interested in investments.
The limited nature and collector nonsense still moves LEs, but Premiums I think are starting to show some wear when Foo and Bond Prem are so readily available soon after launch. I was surprised my local distro had a bunch of Prem unsold of Foo. Pros actually have been moving better on these pins, the huge price increase really might be hurting the Prem market
Care to place a wager on Venom LE's "selling out" to retail customers? Distros are going to be sitting on a lot of LE's with Venom and going forward.
Quoted from Ballderdash:I would argue home use isn’t their target market going forward. As Insider Connected takes off Stern will be all about location play. IC will be monetized and incentivized. Operators will pay the up front cost of ownership since their business model will support it. HUO collectors will need to decide if they want a machine bad enough to own. Maybe I’m wrong since I have no idea what percentage of sales go to private homes, but it sure seems like the market wants to move towards retail/commercial.
Stern would be at best a small, make shift operation without the home market. My guess is the home markrt consumes most of their premoim and LE models which have much larger profit margins.
They better start appreciating their home customer base a lot more going forward (i.e. - stop the price gouging) or they will be in trouble going forward.
Quoted from Prince66cali:They will sell out.
Care to put your money where your mouth is?... a distro being forced by Stern to buy x amount and sit on them is not selling out btw. Selling out means all LE's sold to retail customers. Distrubutors are going to be sitting on a lot of these for a while.
Quoted from Prince66cali:So Venom won't sell but Rush, Bond, LZ, AIQ, Mando, and BM66 sold np?? Seriously wtf?
Bond LE's sold out? I still know of distributors that have them. That is my point. Just because a distributor is pressured to buy them by Stern doesn't mean they are "sold out."
Quoted from screaminr:That would be a fun bet to watch .
Even if it was to give 10 bucks to the winners choice of charity .I would good with , none are available from US distributors at MSRP .
Limit of 1 month ?
I would be good with those parameters. We can keep it a friendly wager, something like $25. The question is how would we ever know if all US distributors are sold out after the first month?
Quoted from mbl1116:It’s worth mentioning that no one outside of you two are interested in this $25 bet.
Certainly not at 10+ posts per day
Any LE purchaser should be going forward. Should tell us a lot about whether that $13k LE purchase is worth $12k or $10k a month after purchase .
Quoted from Prince66cali:$25 to a charity voted on by the members here. 1 month to sell out all LEs from the major stern distros listed on their website. USC vs Utah! Lets go champ!
Utah has beaten USC three straight times. Four straight one month after Venom's LE release .
Quoted from Prince66cali:I can't hear you because I have 11 National Championships and 8 Heisman plugging my ears. ALSO! CRU! Robert Zemeckis is a Trojan! George Lucas, Trojan!
University of Buffalo doesn't have any Heisman Trophy winners or national championships
Quoted from Prince66cali:Haha Who the hell went to UB?
Just trying to figure how a USC west coast guy ends up in Buffalo. You'll be thanking Utah for Dalton Kincaid once the Bills season gets under way.
Quoted from Grantman:Stern isn't moving to a larger factory so they can scale back.
'“The business has been growing at 20% to 30% per year, and we expect that growth to continue for the foreseeable future,” said Peterson, declining to provide revenue figures.'
from:
World’s Biggest Pinball Machine Maker Expands After Bump in Demand
https://www.costar.com/article/1684457330/worlds-biggest-pinball-machine-maker-expands-after-bump-in-demand
That dude is living in the past. The pandemic spend all disposable income on home entertainment days are over. Spending has predictably shifted to travel and entertainment outside of the home. Throw in terrible inflation and a weakening economy and Sterns rosy predictions clearly aren’t based on current reality.
If Sterns management really believes what they are saying, I wouldn’t want to be a distributor right now.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:Looks like you will not be in then. Rumors are price hike and new operating platform.
Why not? I mean Venom, Bond, Mando, etc are selling so well at current Stern prices why not continue to make your product even more expensive? Makes sense to me.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:Ha ha...NIB pricing is not going down.
No but rebates or a similar system is coming. NIB game inventory is growing at most distroa. Keeping that shiny new factory going at full capacity is going to take some work and strategizing.
Quoted from MRudowsky:But in your example, it doesn’t make them more money. To make math easy, Let’s say the cost to build a machine is $6000. If you build 1000 @ $10k, you make $4mil ($4k profit x 1000). If you build 2000 @ $8k you make…$4mil ($2k profit x 2000). So why do double the work for the same income? Plus, if demand continues to exceed supply, you’ll continue to sell those 1000 machines.
The days of demand exceeding supply are essentially over. Stern would also be better off keeping the pinball market as large and engaged as possible.
Even if per unit margins are a bit lower, making and selling more units is in their long term best interest. Alienating a large segment of the market and losing potential repeat customers by pricing them out isn't a good idea or business model. Reading these threads, it is apparent many wealthier collectors are also saying no mas at these prices.
Quoted from MikeS:Bond on current code is more fun than Foo on current code and I say that as a Foo owner and someone that has only played Bond on location. The next couple of Foo updates will make or break that game, just like what happened with recent Bond code. It's a good value in the current market. I usually don't care for Lonnie coded games but both Bond and STH are really fun.
I own both. Stranger Things is the better game right now IMO. Bond code needs to be cleaned up a bit still. The movie clips are too long and can disrupt the flow of the game too much. Hell, sometimes you have to press both buttons 3-4x to skip through everything when the ball goes into the left eject thing..
1 week later
Quoted from Br81zad:Original Top Gun would sell for sure.
To add to the potential 80's themes: Die Hard, The Princess Bride, Scarface, Beetlejuice, Spaceballs, Ferris Bueller, Bill & Ted, Airplane!
A combo original and Maverick Top Gun would be a slam dunk. Either would be a great theme and potential game, though.
I am pretty surprised Top Gun hasn't been done already actually. It must be a difficult license to get.
Quoted from Pinplayer1967:That list is mostly shit. No Ozzy/Black Sabbath?
Thankfully, no .
1 week later
Quoted from Pinbarclay:We knew it was Foo/Venom this year and we even basically knew the designers in 2022.
That it will be Jaws/Wick next year seems likely. Followed by 2025 Matrix from JD and an unknown
Man, if that is the case, my wallet will be safe for the next two years.
3 weeks later
Quoted from PinMonk:Um, no.
Japan is anime crazy top to bottom. Anime is not a for-kids-primarily thing in Japan. When I was there a lot in the 90s-early 2000s, on the subway platforms the garbage was often overflowing with manga that had been purchased and consumed by adults going to work. That's changed somewhat with the advent of digital, but it doesn't change the demographics much. Even stuff that you would consider kiddie like Sailor Moon, etc, has a pretty strong adult following in Japan.
Most of the adult manga depicts scantilly clad women and/or porn. I lived in Japan for two years and initially had culture shock seeing middle aged men on trains reading comic books. When I realized much of what they were reading and looking at was pornographic, I thought I had entered the Twilight Zone.
I was young then but soon realized thar this was mostly cultural differences and that what is considered normal and taboo in the US or the western world isn't necessarily the same elsewhere. Still makes me laugh a bit, though, when I think about it. Despite living in Japan and minoring in Japanese, I have never had any interest in anime.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Gun to the head must buy one, Stern venom (premium) or JJP TS4?
Neither.
Quoted from Mancave:There are still Venom LE's for sale at AMD in Sydney (Distro), first time i've seen an LE of any new Stern not sell out straight away. Previously most LE's were spoken for before they were even listed.
Get used to it.
3 weeks later
Quoted from PinStalker:Gary says they're coming out swinging at Expo
I knew they wouldn't give BOF, JJP and whomever else a free pass.
Who will run away with the show? Going to be fun.
I interpret that mean Stern came to their senses and are reverting to pre Covid NIB pricing range. Short of that, I am not sure I care what he has to say.
Quoted from PinStalker:https://www.knapparcade.org/post/gary-stern-stern-pinball-will-have-some-surprises-at-pinball-expo
New EHOH, toppers, and (maybe) an unexpected game announcement.
Gary is retired, so for them to drag him out of the mothballs...... they aren't pleased with anyone else making money (THEIR MONEY).
Disney-Boy isn't going to let anyone else get a foothold.... watch for the counter-punch.
Another version of EHOH is big news? Disney Boy grossly miscalculated thinking the skewed pandemic and stimulus money driven spike in pinball machine demand and growth justified neverending price hikes. Their greed and misreading of the tea leaves is coming home to roost now as sales slow and demand craters.
Sure there will still be NIB releases here and there that still sell but they are going to struggle trying to move most stuff and keep the new shiny factory going at these prices.
Announcing a bunch of repackaging and new versions of existing games like EHOH is just going to devalue some of their existing high end customers LE's and piss off more customers (Stranger Things, JP 30th, etc, etc). Stern is out of touch with the market and customer and continues to make moves that only benefits them. That does't bode well for future sales, particularly at these prices IMO. Don't shoot the messenger.
2 months later
Quoted from hockeymutt:Would target a whole bunch of age groups as well. Hell I’ve got a co worker who’s in his late 50s that’s deep into it. They could take the insider connect to whole new level with it as well, they could store every one you catch and could change how each game is scored. Stored poke balls etc.
I lived in Japan for two years and still would have zero interest in a Pokemon pin. To each his own I guess but I'm not sure it would be a winning theme for Stern and a pinball nachine.
Quoted from Grantman:I'm not sure where this is coming from. Stern has not announced anything for 2024 but the 2 cornerstones per year for 2022 and 2023 were not typical and they are expected to produce more new titles next year, especially since they moved to a larger factory. The rumors are Jaws, Pokémon, John Wick, and Metallica Anniversary Edition in 2024, with speculation about a possible 70th anniversary Godzilla LE.
Good to know there will be no temptation to buy any NIB Stern next year. Wake me up when BTTF or Top Gun come out.
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:[quoted image]
And? Hard pass for me and suspect it would flop as a pinball theme. I've admittedly been wrong before, though.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Stern shot themselves in the foot moving to a newer larger factory yet again. That decision was likely made when they were still selling games left and right and the secondary market was on fire. Now that's not the case. They expanded too quickly IMO.
Yep. Hard to believe they misread the market that badly. Their ill conceived huge price increases and arrogance during the pandemic shows they totally misread what was driving the spike in salea (home bound populace and gov't stimulus manna from heaven) and that ir would be temporary. The price gouging and remakes of previously limited and/or collectible titles also alienated many long time NIB customers. I know I'm out on NIB for those exact reasons.
Now they have to pay for a big, new, shiny facility with a rapidky retracting market and many pissed off customers. Disney guy hasn't been good for Stern. He is learning the Disney model of never ending price hikes and putting the customer last was/isn't a great plan for a niche industry pinball company.
Quoted from Vino:Is this true? They sure seem pretty darn happy with shiny new GZ’s, STh, Elvira’s, Foo’s and now Jaws.
Call any distributor and you'll find any of those titles in stock. Not much is moving right now.
The large price increase a few years ago followed moe recently by new Elvira LE versions and bringing Stranger Things premiums back (after telling us it was retired) was the last straw for me.
It is secondary market or nothing from me going forward. Fed up with the greed. I'll let someone else feed Stern.
Quoted from Vino:To each their own. looks great
So does the shark eat the ball? A big miss there if not.
Quoted from starfighter:A black & white edition of Godzilla is in the works. Not sure of the release date.
What a surprise.
2 months later
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