Well, the flipper return switches connect to that board. The flipper enable relay is also on that board. (I meant SDB board)

So yes, I would say it is possible although it’s unlikely.

I meant drill your small hole through from the front side, begin with your forstner but from the *back* side, then finish from the front. If that makes it any clearer? Probably we were on the same page in this already.

As for the drill guide, I meant I wouldn’t go buying a special rig to stick your drill in. If the OP has a drill press, simply using it ti drill through a scrap piece of 3/4” material would suffice to use as a guide block. But of course you’d want to place the drill tip very specifically before positioning your guide block.

Ultimately people have to do whatever is comfortable for them. I’ve been building cabinets for the disgustingly rich for 15 years, so maybe have a bit less anxiety about stuff like this than some other folks, which is understandable.

I think you mean the SDB, but yes, between the two boards, the cabinet switches and the EOS switches there are about 7 possible failure points in the flipper circuit.

As far as the rectifier board is concerned, about the only failure points are the bridge rectifier, fuse holder and J1 connector.

Rest easy everyone. I was able to drill the missing 1/2" hole without chipping the clear. I used Cottonm4's method with a portable drill press. Worked great. I did several practice holes on a scrap Mirco playfield remnant. Mirco's clear is fragile compared to what I was working with. The end result was a clean hole.
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I have an extremely weak left flipper on stars. Replaced the EOS, made sure it was gapped right, new coil, new coil stop, made sure cabinet switch was good, new SDB, and it’s still weak. There are some hacks on the rectifier board but wasn’t sure if they would cause a weak flipper or not

Yeah, I meant SDB. But if only one flipper is weak, it would not be the Rec. Board. because a problem there would affect both flippers.

Have you replaced/sanded/checked the left cabinet switch?

Yes. Cabinet switch was also replaced

When you say extremely weak do you possibly mean that only the hold winding is present? In other worlds, did you test both winding’s resistance on you left flipper coil against the right one’s two windings?

You could also flip the coils to see if one is flakey but it’s faster to test compare the windings and such. FAIR WARNING: recently, brand new flipper coils are found to be faulty a lot more often than they were years ago!

The left flipper is likely getting power from a wire soldered to the right flipper. Make sure the wires look good on the right side.

Burnish the EOS and cabinet switches. New switches have a coating and don't conduct well until you do this.

Worked on stars for a few. It’s definitely in the wiring. I need to replace some wires but I got it so you can actually make it to the top of the play field.

Looks like in the later photos you have a one way gate behind the 3-bank. Any more progress on this? decide on any rules?

I was thinking logically, these are usually bonus collects /w multiplier, to justify the saucer.. but this would be too overpowered in Seawitch unless it needed to be qualified with more shots... or some other rule around it. I like the idea of a saucer behind it like beatles, and the return to the flipper.

Anyway, this would be crazy for sure!

Is stern lightning worth owning? I have a few sterns , Iron Maiden, big game, dragonfist. Is it as good? Never played one and don’t see too much about it. I see there is an updated code available. Thanks

Yes. I had to use a one way gate and shoot the ball into that area with only two targets down. Once I had the ball "locked" it would drop down and could go down the inlane, the outlane, and sometimes bounce off the top sling post for a left hand flipper shot---meaning that just like Beatles you would need to nudge the pin and manage the shot.

The next level would have been to wire in a 4-place drop target assembly with the 4th target placed in the back of the cavity with a standup target to close the 3 play field targets. The ball would then drop down and go one of the three directions.

A saucer could be added.

Mechanically, it is doable.

But I could not figure out a set of rules. Do you get 50,000 points? Do you get an extra ball? If there is a saucer, should a ball be staged?

If someone could come up with a decent of rules to make it worthwhile, it could be done. There is room to install all of the below-table saucer parts, so mechanical is not an issue.

The other challenge is how would you set up a ball launcher at the apron? I have the multi-ball launch parts from a Catacomb/Free Fall I can use , but how would anyone else be able to do this without those Catacomb parts?

I don't understand the 4 place drop targets.. I'd just leave the current 3-bank, and wire in the saucer additionally (if we have a free switch? I'm not sure) which has a switch when the ball is resting in it.

So maybe completing the bank when not lit, the drops just reset right away.. but if you complete it when lit, then the drop reset is deferred until it is collected, or the player shoots another bank that might trigger the reset.

When shot to the saucer, maybe collect a 2x bonus with the end of ball countdown animations, and then a kick-out to the lane and reset the drops.

Another random thought, perhaps it could act as a collect for whatever bonus you have, and then reset and you start again (so same behaviour as outhole, only you still have the ball in play). This would require an additional rule for the player to optionally defer the collect. Say another drop is hit, perhaps that could trigger the reset on that bank, which might allow them to keep working on their bonus, risk reward feature etc.

I don't think Seawitch would benefit from multiball... but as you point out, always an option when you have somewhere to hold a ball.

I don't see how you can add just a saucer. Seawitch is set up so that when the 3rd target is hit the targets raise up immediately. So, the targets have to stay down to allow the ball to enter, but after the ball enters, the targets need to raise up immediately to trap the ball, hence the reason for a standup target wired as the 4th drop target.

I suppose it could be done with just the saucer, but I was not thinking along those lines.

Also, once you hit those 3 targets, you have to make the shot before the machine can continue on with its gameplay. It has been awhile since I played Beatles but I think there is some sort of timer to raise the targets so the pin can proceed.

Once I got to playing it I could not see the percentages in continuing.

One of the less desirable Sterns in my opinion. But I’ll trade you my project Lightning for your Dragonfist.

I almost picked one up, but after playing a few different ones - it didn't appeal to me game wise. It usually doesn't get high ratings, but I think it was designed by the same team that created Quicksilver - which is mind blowing.

I would trade a stern Iron Maiden for another Rare stern + or -
Quicksilver , stars , star gazer

Oh hell, I'll trade you my stars for it! (I know this clearly is the +cash option in the list, just joking around)

I had a Lightning for a while. Not a great game but I definitely enjoyed it. Split level PF, 4 flippers, three sets of drops. It's got some really weird artwork. One thing almost nobody mentions is the massive amount of speech the game has. I bet it has 15-20 different call outs in that fantastic 80's robot-like voice. It's also one of those games where you try to do "the thing". The thing being get the spinner lit, then get 4X PF going, then rip the spinner. It's so rewarding to pull that off since it's not easy to do and you only get one lit spinner rip before needing to light it again. I've seen 300-400K from a single rip.

For me, Lightning is a source of parts only.

Did you get your Iron Maiden fixed with those coils?

not going to lie, just picked one up to use for parts lol.

If the new code happens on lightning, it'll be awesome.

I did , another pinside sent me pics. Wires on relay were different. Also replaced both coils . All working now.

Could you show us some pics of what you had to do, please? It is always nice to see the solution.

Wish I had that cabinet with the elevated sides.

Wow, man, the Lighting hate is unwarranted.

It’s a weird time capsule of a machine with a wacky theme and pretty cool artwork. Add to that the unusual playfield layout which has more personality than a lot of other games of the era, *plus* the fact that Dick is writing code for it as we speak…Lightning is due for a Renaissance. Quicksilver is cool and all, but is it maybe not just a wee bit over-hyped at this point?? When Lightning is available for under $2k and QS can’t be had for less than like $8K, you have to ask, is it really $6K more fun to play? *REALLY*?

Granted, they probably had orders to make a split level playfield to compete with Black Knight and the game seems rushed into production compared to BK. It’s not on the level of your Nine Balls or Stargazers. But the idea that people are just parting them out seems kind of awful to me.

It’s not a question. New code is happening.

I've tried to like Lightning. we have had one at the arcade here multiple times over the past 10+ years. never really grabbed me. Only reason I'll be gutting it for parts. I have a meteor that i could use instead but that game is better so dont want to. I just want a quicksilver/Dragonfist already. lol but only one is buildable currently.

No, and Yes.

It's NOT just quicksilver... These days, it's pretty much every single game that is currently available, NEW or USED. It has nothing to do with the money any more, it's the people spending it and the zero risk mentality.

I stopped giving in a long time ago. "new pinball people" seem to be glad to pay extra money for art, fancy, lights, toppers, and themes. 15 years ago, 90% of us that liked and collected pinball [RGP] laughed at most of the antics of those pinball enthusiasts.

Now, it's the norm for people in the hobby to want those things and to pay whatever those things cost. Then, after the $9K purchase, those same people explain and justify their purchase and reasoning on Pinside by joining clubs and starting threads on mods, constantly reminding themselves that they can just sell the game for exactly what they paid for it, even if the game is total shit.

I know not all feel this way but, these days people spend the money first and figure out if the game is any good well after that fact. I do understand why... there is currently very little RISK when the used pinball resale market is so very strong (even for routed games).

Still, it does not mean that you have to choose to participate in the antics.

Agreed wholeheartedly.
This is the reason I am scratch building a Nine Ball rather than buying one for $5-6K. Most old Sterns are in dire need of major restoration; if I’m basically buying a project game for that money, I’d rather just build it with a fresh playfield, boards, and displays and have it be basically new. I actually think it would be pretty cool if they started selling unassembled kits at this point, save for the fact that you can’t get the specialized parts easily.

I’m grossed out by the insane spending that’s required just to get into what used to be a hobby at even the most basic entry level. And frustrated that the pricing is completely disconnected from anything that feels like value to me. I’ve basically given up on the idea of buying any more machines unless some really reasonable deal comes along on a project game.

All that said, I am very curious to see how the Hamill code changes Lightning; Galaxy was pretty dull before, but with the new code, it’s the game people want to play when they come over to my place now.
I’m here for the underdog games, lol. Proud to say every one of my machines was purchased for under $2k!

I've not seen a Lightning anywhere near the sub-2K mark in quite some time. I'd definitely grab one if I did. Every one I've seen has been $2500 (beat to hell) or $3k+. I'm out at $3k.

Quicksilver is an absolutely fantastic game IMO. I can't wait to play my scratch-built QS. TBH I'm not sure I've been more excited about a game than that one, for quite a while. Would I pay $7-8k for one? Probably not. But that's my opinion on most games, tbh. Hard to justify the cost of most of these if you're trying to figure out how much enjoyment can be extracted. Was my Tron Pro worth $7600? Probably not. Metallica Premium, $7500? Probably not. Foo Fighters Premium at MSRP? Ugh. Almost definitely not. But I love all three and can't imagine letting loose of any of them. It took a lot for me to be able to step up on all three of those games and Foo/QS will likely be the last 'big' purchases I make for quite some time. I'm content with what I've collected and now I'm trying to just make them all as nice as they can be.

FWIW I don't like Nine Ball. I'd have to be getting one super cheap to want to pick one up. Great art, not a great game AFAIK. And Stargazer is a GORGEOUS game, but there's just no way I'd ever step up to $7-9k to buy one. Absolutely not. But you know what they say about opinions..

I'm probably in the minority here but I think Galaxy with the new code is better than Stars with the new code. My stars is overall pretty nice, but I'd probably trade it back for my Galaxy in a heartbeat. I miss that game.

Well yeah. The new code for Stars is horrible.

Man, that’s bonkers. I bought mine two years ago for maybe $1400 or so. Playfield was in dire need but it had a full set of LED displays and a full compliment of Alltek boards, so I figured that was some substantial value right there. I bought it, Galaxy, and Stars all within a couple months because I was frankly scared of where the market was headed (i.e., being just plain priced out of it.) Guess I’m glad I picked them up when I did. Also paid too much for a Meteor later that year which turned out to need way more work than I thought (ended up doing a playfield swap, among much else.)

I’ve only played Nine Ball a couple of times but it turned into a sort of white whale for me once I saw how damn much money people were getting for them. Maybe I’ll hate it, lol. But I can at least sell it and make back most of the money I put in, I guess. It would be nice to feel like the stakes were lower. My first pin was $700 and at that time trading games was actually a feasible way to rotate your collection. Heavy sigh.

New code on Galaxy is absolutely amazing.
I have Stars as well and probably play it about 60/40 in favor of the original code. That to me is really the sweet spot, a game which is fun to play in its original version but which can also be enjoyed in a completely different way. Kinda interested to see what Dick does with Nine Ball once I get it built!

I understand where you are coming from. I bought my Big Game in 2015 for $500 of $600. There is no way I could build my small collection of Sterns that I have if I were starting today.

That said, I would be hard pressed to spend money on repro play fields and back glasses without someone with a little money to spend to buy them from me.

If all I could get for them is $600 or $700 then I would just play them until they turned into splinters.

There would be no repro play field industry, There would be no back glass industry.

If I end up with another game that can use the code, I will very likely just swap it over.

I don't think it's 'horrible', I just don't think it's great.....compared to Galaxy and Meteor. Both Galaxy and Meteor have better callouts, better music, and are altogether just plain awesome. Stars is...fine. I love the new Meteor code, although it felt a bit unnecessary for a game that was already awesome. That said, I have zero qualms about playing only the new code on that one. On Stars, I feel like I could go either way with it and it would be just fine. Maybe I just miss my Galaxy....

The last couple of years have been so hit or miss. There are still deals that pop up, but there are so many sharks out there trying to grab every single deal that it makes things really hard. I've kind of settled on having what I have, unless I sell something to add something. I'm okay with that, I've got most of what I really 'want' anyway.

Yeah horrible is harsh. Good effort, but stars needs nothing to be improved imo. Meteor is fun with the new stuff. Seems to be just enough added without really anything taken away.

So back to being in the minority... I don't really understand all the broad love for Stars. I think it's good, and especially for 1978 standards it's GREAT..but I just don't love it as much as everyone else I guess. That said, I thought Galaxy was about the most boring game I'd ever played prior to the new code. Afterward, I LOVED it..but was seduced by a nice Stars which everyone said was just amazing, so I had it in my head that I definitely needed it. I don't necessarily regret it (I traded to a friend; I can and probably will get it back down the road) but I don't think I'd make that trade again if I knew what I know now. That said, I'm also super in love with Seawitch, and it seems a great many people absolutely despise it. So perhaps I'm just a weirdo.

Right, I'm thinking of custom code adjustment to specifically only reset the drops on certain conditions. I do not think the drops need to be used as a stopper, I'd see it like the kickout on High Speed / Pin-bot etc. with the 45' bracket, so the ball lands into the kickout, scoring occurs, and then kickout down to the left in lane.

Nothing in the 70s or 80s touches the satisfaction of hearing that deep chime pop off for 100k specials. Then before that, it’s a shooters game with very Satisfying spinner shots and cool angles on lots of shots. Shatzing is there, alley passes. Brutal. It’s the total package.

I'm firmly in the "like it, don't necessarily love it" camp. It's a good game. I won't be selling mine.

I'm also pretty anti-mpu100 as a whole, I'm finding. The one oddball mpu100 game I really do enjoy is kind of an unexpected one: Hot Hand. It's quirky.

Never heard of anyone despising Seawitch gameplay. It's a fantastic package, modest production of it keeps it from being one of those classic sterns with the obscene rarity price tag.

The most common gripe I hear is that the geometry is garbage. It's bad, but for me that's kind of part of the charm. She's supposed to be a nasty B. You should have to go out and earn it. She delivers.

Yeah. Seawitch has a bad layout. Beatles made it way better.

Trident > 90% of the MPU200 games.

I also think Seawitch sucks.

Haha. I'm afraid to play a Beatles because a) I hate the Beatles and b) I don't want to become jaded on my Witch. IDK, Beatles seems 'too' smooth. Now, there's something to be said about flinging the ball around the loop a bunch of times and watching it get faster and faster, but there are games that couldn't even get that right (looking at you, Black Knight 2000). You know it's bad when you get bored with a loop that gets faster and faster. I'd like to see a reverse-retro-retheme on a Beatles, back to a Seawitch. I wish they had made 20000 Beatles so that could be a possibility. It'll never happen because of how few they made.

I've not played a Trident, but I think it looks like it sucks. JMO. lol

How dare you speak ill of Seawitch, though! HOW DARE YOU!

I'm pretty antsy to play the Ali I bought. I've heard such mixed things on it -- it sucks, it's awesome, it's whatever.... Who knows. Mine is sitting in a warehouse in South Carolina just waiting for me to do something about getting it here. Doh!