Quoted from Charles_Kline:

I have a rotisserie too but once you remove the rails there is nothing to support the middle of the playfield while you sand. It’s not good to flex the plywood that much.
The box supports the playfield fully on all four sides.

Quoted from Michel_K17:

Plug for BK2000.
In all seriousness, considering how happy I was with the HT on my original BK, I am willing to wait for the BK2000, but not more than 5 years, in which case I should start restoring my current playfield and clear coat while I still can.
Any thoughts on publishing an order list and timeframe?
Alternatively, is Outside Edge open to freelance artists contributing freely to their artwork department to accelerate their development? (not sure if this has been asked before)
to Charles_Kline ... You will love your BK once you are done.

Quoted from yellowghost:

I wish they would let us know whats in the future plans. What they can or wish to produce hard-tops for. What they already have art for etc. I would pay more attention to them if I knew that something I need is in the pipe-line.

Quoted from Aflacjack:

But as soon as they do, it’s an endless thread about when when when. We enthusiasts are our own worst enemy.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

I've been working on a Black Knight that was left with the playfield exposed in a warehouse for at least 20 years. The art was all flaking off, perfect candidate for a hard top.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
The art was all so loose and flaking that it all had to be removed for good adhesion of the HT.
[quoted image]
The ends of a few arrows were raised up, got those glued down before finishing sanding.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
After a few coats of clear I inked around all inserts with black and then applied a few more clear coats to seal that in.
[quoted image]
Now to let it cure for 30 days and get started on the upper playfield.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

What do you guys typically do about the pop bumper screw head holes on the hardtop?
The Hard top has small hole that I'm thinking about leaving. If I ever need to replace the screws I could trim the hole larger at that point.

Quoted from vid1900:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet#post-4470156
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-spa-hardtop-install-vid-s-guide#post-5910342

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Why not just leave them small? The screw/nails may never need to be replaced...

Quoted from vid1900:

I guess you could put the nails in first, then put the hardtop on afterwards
But Ive had to repair so many broken pop nails in my lifetime, I just assume at some point they will fail (or kids will over-tighten them in some future service)

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Just caught up on the recent discussions with Playfield prep for a Hardtop, and I have received a lot of PMs asking me how I do mine. I have a slightly different perspective regarding PF prep, and I thought I would just share the methods to my madness. I am not going to claim that my way is better than the next guys, but it has worked very well for me.
SANDING.
I know some say you don’t have to sand the entire panel. I strongly disagree with this. I prefer to sand the PF down to bare wood because if you stick the Hardtop over old paint that is not bonded well, the paint can release, and then the Hardtop is going to loosen. Not good!
Sanding all the old paint off also ensures that the panel is perfectly flat and does not have low spots. When I do this, I use a pneumatic DA sander. I start with 80 grit disks and sand till all the art is gone. Then I switch to 120 grit and finish off with 220 grit. I do not believe there is any need to go finer than 220 grit.
This is the sander I use:
amazon.com link »
You can also use an electric sander, but I have found them to be a bit "bulkier" to use.
These are the Dura Gold Sanding disks I use:
amazon.com link »
POLISHING INSERTS.
First thing I do is wet-sand the inserts with 400 grit, and then finish with 1000 grit. Nothing fancy there.
After sanding, I use a 1000-watt flex-shaft Rotary Tool and 1” polishing pads to restore the inserts glassy finish. I have found that a larger high torque Rotary tool works best because you want to maintain a consistent and controllable RPM to avoid melting, or scarring the inserts. I have found that typical hand-held Rotary Tool ends up turning too fast and tends to bog down which leads to damaged inserts.
This is the 1000-watt Rotary tool I use:
amazon.com link »
The 1” polishing pads I use do a terrific job polishing the inserts back to a very shiny finish. I use Novus 3, with these pads, and then finish off with Novus 2. I have used many types of polishing pads, and these are far and away the best pads to use, as well as the safest. Also, these pads make VERY quick work of restoring the insert to a glass-like finish.
These are the 1” polishing pads I use:
amazon.com link »
Also, the included mandrel fits the 1000-watt Rotary tool mentioned above perfectly but does not fit hand-held Rotary Tools.
CLEARCOATING.
To ensure the Hardtop bonds to the PF panel the best it can, you MUST clearcoat the panel. I have performed tests to reach this very conclusion, and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, it must be done.
Before clearcoating, I personally prefer to mask off all the inserts so that they don’t get any clear on them at all. It’s just my preference whether right or wrong, because I don’t want anything weird to happen during clearcoat application, or possibly down the road that would be considered undesirable. The insert masks I use are pre-cut on my Cricut Maker 3 to the exact shape of all the inserts, and then it’s just a quick peel-n-stick from there.
The Clearcoat I use is Watco Laqcquer Gloss Spray which is a very high-quality finish. It also sprays a nice wide pattern which greatly avoids runs. It’s a bit more expensive, but very worth it IMO.
This is the Watco clear that I use:
amazon.com link »
Lastly, I wipe the PF down with a quality paint-prep solvent to remove any contaminates, spray two coats of the Watco on the playfield, wait for it to dry, and then remove the insert masks. Now the Hardtop is ready to stick with total piece of mind.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Just caught up on the recent discussions with Playfield prep for a Hardtop, and I have received a lot of PMs asking me how I do mine. I have a slightly different perspective regarding PF prep, and I thought I would just share the methods to my madness. I am not going to claim that my way is better than the next guys, but it has worked very well for me.
SANDING.
I know some say you don’t have to sand the entire panel. I strongly disagree with this. I prefer to sand the PF down to bare wood because if you stick the Hardtop over old paint that is not bonded well, the paint can release, and then the Hardtop is going to loosen. Not good!
Sanding all the old paint off also ensures that the panel is perfectly flat and does not have low spots. When I do this, I use a pneumatic DA sander. I start with 80 grit disks and sand till all the art is gone. Then I switch to 120 grit and finish off with 220 grit. I do not believe there is any need to go finer than 220 grit.
This is the sander I use:
amazon.com link »
You can also use an electric sander, but I have found them to be a bit "bulkier" to use.
These are the Dura Gold Sanding disks I use:
amazon.com link »
POLISHING INSERTS.
First thing I do is wet-sand the inserts with 400 grit, and then finish with 1000 grit. Nothing fancy there.
After sanding, I use a 1000-watt flex-shaft Rotary Tool and 1” polishing pads to restore the inserts glassy finish. I have found that a larger high torque Rotary tool works best because you want to maintain a consistent and controllable RPM to avoid melting, or scarring the inserts. I have found that typical hand-held Rotary Tool ends up turning too fast and tends to bog down which leads to damaged inserts.
This is the 1000-watt Rotary tool I use:
amazon.com link »
The 1” polishing pads I use do a terrific job polishing the inserts back to a very shiny finish. I use Novus 3, with these pads, and then finish off with Novus 2. I have used many types of polishing pads, and these are far and away the best pads to use, as well as the safest. Also, these pads make VERY quick work of restoring the insert to a glass-like finish.
These are the 1” polishing pads I use:
amazon.com link »
Also, the included mandrel fits the 1000-watt Rotary tool mentioned above perfectly but does not fit hand-held Rotary Tools.
CLEARCOATING.
To ensure the Hardtop bonds to the PF panel the best it can, you MUST clearcoat the panel. I have performed tests to reach this very conclusion, and I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, it must be done.
Before clearcoating, I personally prefer to mask off all the inserts so that they don’t get any clear on them at all. It’s just my preference whether right or wrong, because I don’t want anything weird to happen during clearcoat application, or possibly down the road that would be considered undesirable. The insert masks I use are pre-cut on my Cricut Maker 3 to the exact shape of all the inserts, and then it’s just a quick peel-n-stick from there.
The Clearcoat I use is Watco Laqcquer Gloss Spray which is a very high-quality finish. It also sprays a nice wide pattern which greatly avoids runs. It’s a bit more expensive, but very worth it IMO.
This is the Watco clear that I use:
amazon.com link »
Lastly, I wipe the PF down with a quality paint-prep solvent to remove any contaminates, spray two coats of the Watco on the playfield, wait for it to dry, and then remove the insert masks. Now the Hardtop is ready to stick with total piece of mind.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks for all of the awesome info! But for someone who is just a hobbyist that will have a machine in his home not getting near the plays as a machine on location, would all of this work really be necessary? Sanding the playfield completely of all paint, resanding multiple times and then clear coating?

Quoted from ROMM:

would all of this work really be necessary? Sanding the playfield completely of all paint, resanding multiple times and then clear coating?

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Yep, I don’t plan on removing them, all three are in snugly.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Please, please PLEASE take this somewhere else. The back and forth is by now waaaaaay beyond relevant.

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks for all of the awesome info! But for someone who is just a hobbyist that will have a machine in his home not getting near the plays as a machine on location, would all of this work really be necessary? Sanding the playfield completely of all paint, resanding multiple times and then clear coating?

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks for all of the awesome info! But for someone who is just a hobbyist that will have a machine in his home not getting near the plays as a machine on location, would all of this work really be necessary? Sanding the playfield completely of all paint, resanding multiple times and then clear coating?

Quoted from jcar302:

For me, common sense i believe suggests sanding the whole playfield, it was beat in the first place so you have to assume the rest of the paint will eventually want to come up.
What i don't understand is clear coating bare wood. Not sure why i would want to stick the playfield to yet another type of finish instead of just bare wood.

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks for all of the awesome info! But for someone who is just a hobbyist that will have a machine in his home not getting near the plays as a machine on location, would all of this work really be necessary? Sanding the playfield completely of all paint, resanding multiple times and then clear coating?

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Can you partially sand the PF, polish the inserts and stick the Hardtop and not encounter issues? Likely yes, but IMO, there is still some risk of the Hardtop POSSIBLY releasing, or POSSIBLY doing something weird due to loose paint, porosity, moisture, contamination, fibrous texture, open grain, expansion, and contraction...who the Hell knows? I used to be work in a wood-working shop when I was younger, and I can say firsthand that wood can do some pretty strange things, under certain conditions.
The absolute last thing I want to do is have to redo a Hardtop job for the very obvious reasons. Therefore, I am willing to spend the additional time, money, and effort to minimize any POSSIBLE risks, as much as possible. This is also especially the case since I restore pins for clients, and charge premiums for high-end quality work. BTW, I once removed a Hardtop because of an early adhesive quality issue, and it's no walk in the park. The adhesive is painfully difficult to remove, requires using solvents, and will even pull up the wood. In a couple of words - AVOID AT ALL COSTS!
As I mentioned before, I did an A-B comparison by sticking a 1" square piece of Hardtop with adhesive to clean bare wood, and also a 1" square to the clearcoated wood. The square stuck to the clearcoat was significantly more difficult to remove a day later compared to the square on the bare wood. So, the million-dollar question is, is the bond between the Hardtop and bare wood adequate for the intended outcome? It seems to be for many folks according to the comments here. But, is the bond stronger if the Hardtop is stuck to clearcoated wood? IMO and based on research, unquestionably yes, and by a considerable margin.
IMO, the clearcoat does a couple of things. It seals the wood to eliminate all porosity which is typical for Hardwoods such as Birch and Maple, and it also eliminates air and moisture from POSSIBLY reaching the adhesive bond. It also can cover up contaminants that could POSSIBLY cause an issue with the bond as well. Hardwood in general is composed of countless fibers, and it has an open grain that allows it to breathe and absorb the elements much more than say, softwoods. That said, I don't think it can be argued that the adhesive bond will indeed be better on a non-porous, non-fibrous, non-contaminated and totally dry surface, and this is what the clearcoat allows.
Maybe the clearcoat and complete sanding of the PF is overkill. Maybe it's a waste of time and resources. Maybe it's boiling the freaking ocean. Regardless, the extra attention gives me more piece of mind that weird shit won't occur that would end up costing me a lot of heartache, time, and money.
All of the above comments are merely my opinions on the subject, and again, I don't claim to be the end-all authority on this stuff. I just do what feels right and comfortable for my needs, and ultimately meets the objective.
At the end of the day, just do what you're comfortable with, use some common sense, and your job will likely turn out fine.

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Can confirm, it's NOT fun.

Quoted from Mathazar:

True Dat.

Quoted from Impzilla:

What caused yours to fail?
Thx.

Quoted from ROMM:

Yeah all of these pics of people having to remove their hardtops, hopefully it wasn’t because you didn’t completely sand the playfield down and completely clear!

Quoted from Impzilla:

What caused yours to fail?

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Can you partially sand the PF, polish the inserts and stick the Hardtop and not encounter issues? Likely yes, but IMO, there is still some risk of the Hardtop POSSIBLY releasing, or POSSIBLY doing something weird due to loose paint, porosity, moisture, contamination, fibrous texture, open grain, expansion, and contraction...who the Hell knows? I used to be work in a wood-working shop when I was younger, and I can say firsthand that wood can do some pretty strange things, under certain conditions.
The absolute last thing I want to do is have to redo a Hardtop job for the very obvious reasons. Therefore, I am willing to spend the additional time, money, and effort to minimize any POSSIBLE risks, as much as possible. This is also especially the case since I restore pins for clients, and charge premiums for high-end quality work. BTW, I once removed a Hardtop because of an early adhesive quality issue, and it's no walk in the park. The adhesive is painfully difficult to remove, requires using solvents, and will even pull up the wood. In a couple of words - AVOID AT ALL COSTS!
As I mentioned before, I did an A-B comparison by sticking a 1" square piece of Hardtop with adhesive to clean bare wood, and also a 1" square to the clearcoated wood. The square stuck to the clearcoat was significantly more difficult to remove a day later compared to the square on the bare wood. So, the million-dollar question is, is the bond between the Hardtop and bare wood adequate for the intended outcome? It seems to be for many folks according to the comments here. But, is the bond stronger if the Hardtop is stuck to clearcoated wood? IMO and based on research, unquestionably yes, and by a considerable margin.
IMO, the clearcoat does a couple of things. It seals the wood to eliminate all porosity which is typical for Hardwoods such as Birch and Maple, and it also eliminates air and moisture from POSSIBLY reaching the adhesive bond. It also can cover up contaminants that could POSSIBLY cause an issue with the bond as well. Hardwood in general is composed of countless fibers, and it has an open grain that allows it to breathe and absorb the elements much more than say, softwoods. That said, I don't think it can be argued that the adhesive bond will indeed be better on a non-porous, non-fibrous, non-contaminated and totally dry surface, and this is what the clearcoat allows.
Maybe the clearcoat and complete sanding of the PF is overkill. Maybe it's a waste of time and resources. Maybe it's boiling the freaking ocean. Regardless, the extra attention gives me more piece of mind that weird shit won't occur that would end up costing me a lot of heartache, time, and money.
All of the above comments are merely my opinions on the subject, and again, I don't claim to be the end-all authority on this stuff. I just do what feels right and comfortable for my needs, and ultimately meets the objective.
At the end of the day, just do what you're comfortable with, use some common sense, and your job will likely turn out fine.

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks again for the comments. Your how-to post was really helpful with the links to the tools and materials. Really takes the guesswork out of it. I think the biggest issue for me (and many others I’m sure) is setting up a proper space for doing clear coat work. I have a 2 car enclosed garage with a car, a couple motorcycles, lawn equipment, etc. Not much room to work with.

Quoted from ROMM:

Thanks again for the comments. Your how-to post was really helpful with the links to the tools and materials. Really takes the guesswork out of it. I think the biggest issue for me (and many others I’m sure) is setting up a proper space for doing clear coat work. I have a 2 car enclosed garage with a car, a couple motorcycles, lawn equipment, etc. Not much room to work with.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Is 30 days off gassing duration after spraying lacquer sufficient? I'm looking forward to applying the Black Knight Hardtop, have to wait until at least October 12th for 30 days.

Quoted from Pin-Bob:

That whole 30 day thing is a myth. However, if you're using a garbage lacquer like Deft, it will stay soft for months. Wood finishing is my business. As a professional wood finisher & instructor, in my opinion a better option that nobody has mentioned in this thread is vinyl sealer. Spray your playfield with a few coats of vinyl sealer, wait a couple days, sand level with 320 grit, clean with naphtha & apply your hardtop. Vinyl sealer is a lacquer-based commercial wood sealer/adhesion promoter. Mohawk Finishing Products offers it in aerosol cans if you don't have a spray system. Plain nitrocellulose lacquer or acrylic lacquer will work in lieu of vinyl sealer or lacquer sanding sealer, but they're not ideal. Vinyl sealer bonds better to the inserts as well.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Is 30 days off gassing duration after spraying lacquer sufficient? I'm looking forward to applying the Black Knight Hardtop, have to wait until at least October 12th for 30 days.
Where is everyone getting new rails now that Reese Rails is gone?

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

Any other thoughts on the 30 day?
Or the rail question...

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Any lacquer that takes 30 days to outgas is some pretty shitty lacquer IMO. When I use the Watco (attached), it is completely try to the touch in less than a half hour, and I am sticking the Hardtop 48 hours later with piece of mind.
When I did my BK over-the-top restoration, I cut new walls from a single piece of White Oak that I picked up from Lowes. If you have access to a table saw, you can easily do this in 20 minutes. I then applied a nice medium-dark stain with a tad of red, and then topped them with clear-polyurethane for durability. The finished result is absolutely stunning compared to the cheap printed paper that came on the original cheap wood walls.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

I'm not saying my lacquer takes 30 days to outgas (why is everyone so hostel with their responses?) Just going off recommendations in this thread and others that the clear coat should be allowed to outgas for 30 days to prevent any clouding or other reaction with the insert windows.

Quoted from Pinash:

I’ve seen a lot of sunken inserts, but what about areas under overtightened posts? Should I fill with plastic wood and sand flush?
[quoted image]