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(Topic ID: 218168)

Official "HARDTOPS" thread


By Skypilot

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,714 posts
  • 339 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 minutes ago by NinJaBooT
  • Topic is favorited by 207 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“If we produce a Hardtop for this game would yo purchase it?”

  • High Speed 145 votes
    14%
  • Firepower 106 votes
    10%
  • Silverball Mania 53 votes
    5%
  • Time Warp 25 votes
    2%
  • Mata Hari 47 votes
    4%
  • Blackout 86 votes
    8%
  • Tri-Zone 20 votes
    2%
  • Swords of Fury 65 votes
    6%
  • Space Station 52 votes
    5%
  • Fathom 48 votes
    4%
  • Pinbot 118 votes
    11%
  • Eight Ball Deluxe 110 votes
    10%
  • Strikes and Spares 40 votes
    4%
  • Kiss (Bally) 49 votes
    5%
  • Supersonic 36 votes
    3%
  • Grand Lizard 69 votes
    6%

(Multiple choice - 1069 votes by 622 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 1714 posts in this topic. You are on page 25 of 35.
#1201 8 months ago

And sometimes, not having the Hardtop as soon as you would have wanted works in your favor.

I had picked up a Blackout that was a great candidate for a Hardtop, and earlier indications were that is wasn't going to be all that long before we'd see them. I'd have gotten one ASAP. Gave me the chance to put in a lot of time playing it which made me realize it was never going to be a keeper for me.

Moved it along for a decent price and saved myself some $$ and effort.

#1202 8 months ago

I coming to this party late and I'm sure this question has been asked somewhere in this thread already, so please excuse. I'm considering getting one for my Future Spa. As with most older games, most of my inserts have cupping issues, during the prep work, do you have to level them before you put down the hardtop?

#1203 8 months ago

I see a lot of people mentioning F14 - But don't see it in the poll. Has there ever been any indication that F14 will ever be made, since there are repro playfields available?

My problem is that my F14 is just in too bad shape for a new playfield. It's just not economically viable. But a Hardtop could be a great solution.

#1204 8 months ago

yatch11 no need to deal with cupping inserts. Now, raised inserts are a different story.

#1205 8 months ago
Quoted from yatch11:

I coming to this party late and I'm sure this question has been asked somewhere in this thread already, so please excuse. I'm considering getting one for my Future Spa. As with most older games, most of my inserts have cupping issues, during the prep work, do you have to level them before you put down the hardtop?

The long-term verdict is still out on this. The hardtop is sturdy enough that it will be flat even over cupped inserts. So most say you don't need to level them. But what might happen over time? With 10 or 20 years of heat cycles and continual gravity, it's possible that the hardtop might start to depress down into the cupped insert. Also, there's an air gap that is either going to be expanding/contracting based on temperature, or possibly breathing (pulling in air and therefore moisture from under the playfield) if there is any tiny gap around the edge of the insert. The latter could cause the insert to start to look cloudy.

#1206 8 months ago
Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

yatch11 no need to deal with cupping inserts. Now, raised inserts are a different story.

Thanks, appreciate it

#1207 8 months ago
Quoted from yendor0:

The long-term verdict is still out on this. The hardtop is sturdy enough that it will be flat even over cupped inserts. So most say you don't need to level them. But what might happen over time? With 10 or 20 years of heat cycles and continual gravity, it's possible that the hardtop might start to depress down into the cupped insert. Also, there's an air gap that is either going to be expanding/contracting based on temperature, or possibly breathing (pulling in air and therefore moisture from under the playfield) if there is any tiny gap around the edge of the insert. The latter could cause the insert to start to look cloudy.

Good info to think about, thanks a lot

#1208 8 months ago
Quoted from yatch11:

I coming to this party late and I'm sure this question has been asked somewhere in this thread already, so please excuse. I'm considering getting one for my Future Spa. As with most older games, most of my inserts have cupping issues, during the prep work, do you have to level them before you put down the hardtop?

You could even replace the cupped inserts with new ones. Though, you need to measure to get the correct size as they are not matched up with the games, but at least they are available to purchase.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=inserts

#1209 8 months ago

Have to sand the playfield anyhow. I'd think that would mostly resolve cupped inserts.

#1210 8 months ago

I wouldn’t worry much about the gap, even perfectly flat inserts are going to have a slight gap since there no adhesive on the inserts.

I am debating replacing inserts that have fractures in them but new ones would probably eventually show some anyway.

#1211 8 months ago
Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

Have to sand the playfield anyhow. I'd think that would mostly resolve cupped inserts.

I had the same ideas as well. It probably wouldn't get it totally smoothed out but would definitely help it though. Unfortunately, I have to put this playfield project on hold. It has since crapped the bed on me and have to figure out this electrical issue I'm having, ugh. lol

#1212 8 months ago

Just think out loud. Is there any way of filling the cupped inserts with some kind of clear resin? If that were possible, they would sand flat perfect to the playfield. Might be worth investigating.

#1213 8 months ago

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

#1214 8 months ago
Quoted from freddy:

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

Well said!

#1215 8 months ago

Do these run out of stock? I am planning on picking up a game very soon with the intent of getting the hardtop for it. I don't want to jinx it though

#1216 8 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

Just think out loud. Is there any way of filling the cupped inserts with some kind of clear resin? If that were possible, they would sand flat perfect to the playfield. Might be worth investigating.

You can fill the cupped insert with clear or even self-leveling supper glue.

Quoted from freddy:

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

You still want it to look nice down the road. I wouldn't trust putting a hardtop on a game with cupped inserts. It might be sturdy but I'm 99% sure it will depress over time. If someone already has the playfield this far stripped down why not take a little extra time to either replace the inserts or fill and level them? Do it right the first time, not the second time.

#1217 8 months ago
Quoted from freddy:

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

It's also irreversible by design, so if your inserts aren't up to snuff, there's nothing that can be done short of replacing the entire playfield. It's worthy of consideration.

#1218 8 months ago

I have an EK hardtop to be installed (eventually), and having handled this thing I can't imagine it "sagging" into a cupped insert, even over time.

#1219 8 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

I have an EK hardtop to be installed (eventually), and having handled this thing I can't imagine it "sagging" into a cupped insert, even over time.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

#1220 8 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

I have an EK hardtop to be installed (eventually), and having handled this thing I can't imagine it "sagging" into a cupped insert, even over time.

This ^^^

Some serious overthinking going on here. The hardtop is a flat hard sheet of PETG plastic. Permanently secured & lies flat. It is not going to "sag" or "sink" in spots over cupped inserts. It's the least of your worries. The bigger concern is getting debris trapped over an insert during the install, having it misaligned after its secured, or looking at cracked inserts that you were too lazy to replace before installing the hardtop.

A hardtop is a simple restoration alternative for those of us who don't want (or have the skills) to go through the laborious process of doing an entire playfield swap & difficult touchups, clear coating or repairs to an original playfield.

#1221 8 months ago
Quoted from freddy:

I think your missing the reason for hardtoping a game . It’s a simple permanent solution to playfield repair . No need to complicate things .

I dont think I am missing the reason at all. I just installed a BK HT and the product is phenominal. Of course Idid not have to deal with sunken inserts.

So are you certain there would not be any moisture or fogging with that slight air gap from a sunken insert, or maybe a slightly unatural visual or lighting effect due to the air gap?

I am not convinced that this could happen at all. I dont believe that the HT would sag or anything like that. Its just worth considering ahead of time because if there is a weird issue, the HT aint coming up in order to address it.

I doubt I will ever be doing an old PF with sunken inserts. But if there were a sure fire way to level them out the right way. I would do it in a heartbeat as to avoid any what-ifs down the road.

#1222 8 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

I dont think I am missing the reason at all. I just installed a BK HT and the product is phenominal. Of course Idid not have to deal with sunken inserts.
So are you certain there would not be any moisture or fogging with that slight air gap from a sunken insert, or maybe a slightly unatural visual or lighting effect due to the air gap?
I am not convinced that this could happen at all. I dont believe that the HT would sag or anything like that. Its just worth considering ahead of time because if there is a weird issue, the HT aint coming up in order to address it.
I doubt I will ever be doing an old PF with sunken inserts. But if there were a sure fire way to level them out the right way. I would do it in a heartbeat as to avoid any what-ifs down the road.

The other thing I would be concerned with down the road is with even the slightest give in that area the hardtop could eventually wear the same spot most playfields wear from sunken or cupped insets. Or leave a depression at the edge of the insert. Probably won’t happen on a game being played in the home but would think it’s possible. Man I just can’t see doing all the work to install one of these and not address a minor issue.

#1223 8 months ago
Quoted from yatch11:

I coming to this party late and I'm sure this question has been asked somewhere in this thread already, so please excuse. I'm considering getting one for my Future Spa. As with most older games, most of my inserts have cupping issues, during the prep work, do you have to level them before you put down the hardtop?

You can get a pretty good preview by laying the hardtop on your playfield. If it looks fine with the cupped inserts and you don't want to overthink things, then just install it.

I decided to replace most inserts on my firepower and am glad I did so. Replacing them is pretty low risk as you don't have to worry about damaging the art -- you will sand everything anyways and the hardtop replaces all the art. I documented my installation here

#1225 8 months ago

The grand lizard one is really going to make an impact. So many of these have trashed playfields

14
#1226 8 months ago

Finished my High Speed, including Freeplay40 clear ramp.
It looks great!
Fit was very, very good. Dremelling out the star rollover holes was nerve wracking, but very do-able.
Just need to fine tune a few switches and play a few games.

20200114_200941 (resized).jpg
#1227 8 months ago

Comet certainly looks beautiful with a hard top.
IMG_20200114_191620 (resized).jpg

#1228 8 months ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

Comet certainly looks beautiful with a hard top.
[quoted image]

Hard to go wrong with a mirror-like finish, looks amazing!

#1229 8 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

The grand lizard one is really going to make an impact. So many of these have trashed playfields

Mine definitely does. Can't wait for that hardtop to come out.

#1230 8 months ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Finished my High Speed, including Freeplay40 clear ramp.
It looks great!
Fit was very, very good. Dremelling out the star rollover holes was nerve wracking, but very do-able.
Just need to fine tune a few switches and play a few games.[quoted image]

Man, that looks great.

#1231 8 months ago

Any of you guy considering bringing your beauties to the "HardTop Homecoming" at PinBrew in April?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/outside-edge-to-host-hardtop-homecoming-at-pinbrew-2020

#1232 8 months ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Finished my High Speed, including Freeplay40 clear ramp.
It looks great!
Fit was very, very good. Dremelling out the star rollover holes was nerve wracking, but very do-able.
Just need to fine tune a few switches and play a few games.[quoted image]

Looks awesome!!!

#1233 8 months ago

Firepower II. All the ones I've seen have horrible wear including mine. Must have been the paint or process on them. Even though the number of machines made is below 10k, a BUNCH of them need help

#1234 8 months ago
Quoted from Phantasize:

I see a lot of people mentioning F14 - But don't see it in the poll. Has there ever been any indication that F14 will ever be made, since there are repro playfields available?

My problem is that my F14 is just in too bad shape for a new playfield. It's just not economically viable. But a Hardtop could be a great solution.

I also see a lot of people mentioning F14 - but since repro fields are available.

Of course I hope that something will come, but as it looks so far nothing is planned for the F14.

#1235 8 months ago

Doing hardtop install today. Just noticed a couple things...

There’s no adhesive on the thin strip in the shooter lane. Is this a change on newly manufactured hardtops? Because all the videos I’ve seen have adhesive there. The wood side rails will keep it secured I guess, but I’d be happier if the adhesive was there.

Also noticed that the shoot lane cutout is shorter and the actual groove. I was expecting some difference, but I wasn’t expecting the cutout to be half the length of the grove. Looks funny to me.

Are these normal issues?

A601E721-AF31-42DB-ABF6-A16C407B22FC (resized).jpeg680FD023-E047-47D8-93FE-DA879A6585D7 (resized).jpeg
#1236 8 months ago

No need for adhesive there. It goes completely under the rail.

Is your groove extra super long?

#1237 8 months ago

It must be longer than usual. I could cut the plactic but it would probably come out looking like garbage

#1238 8 months ago

The prototype wasn't like that. You're shooter groove must be longer. (?)

#1239 8 months ago

Your shooter lane looks extra deep too like someone routed or sanded it out for a previous resto attempt.

#1240 8 months ago

Not likely with this particular game's history. Long shooter groove probably just a manufacturing variance. Who knows. I'm not worried about it. Debated cutting the plastic, but one slip of the knife could have made look even worse. Then I'd be obsessing that I didn't cut the plastic correctly. I just installed the hardtop as is.

The fact there was no adhesive on the thin strip is an advantage now. If dirty gets under the groove, the side rail can be unscrewed (no more staples), and that flap can be easily lifted, blasted away with airhose underneath & wiped with novus q-tip.

That said the playfield looks fantastic now. Very thrilling pulling off the protective sheet & seeing the vibrant colors/shine for the first time. Very satisfied with this product

#1241 8 months ago

Outside Edge shared this on Facebook - not sure why they haven't here yet. Check out what is next....

82432193_1175518992645783_4731782787311337472_n (resized).jpg
#1242 8 months ago

Up for sale now? Or just the announcement? If the later they did tell us pinbot was next.

#1243 8 months ago
Quoted from Apex:

Up for sale now? Or just the announcement? If the later they did tell us pinbot was next.

Swords of Fury playfield in the background.

#1244 8 months ago

Ok missed that from the previous post.

#1245 8 months ago
Quoted from newovad:

Swords of Fury playfield in the background.

"Coming soon to a Pinbot near you! Just working on color and alignment. Won’t be long and we will be swinging a sword toward our next title."

I'd say Swords of Fury might be next...

21
#1246 8 months ago

Pinbot is now live folks!

Please allow 7 to 10 days for shipping as we ramp up.
Www.outsideedgeproducts.com

Happy restoring!

Onto our next one! WEEEEEE!
5A28A8B2-5863-4D90-9CBB-BD0034B7F5D0 (resized).jpeg

#1247 8 months ago
Quoted from Outsidedge:

Pinbot is now live folks!
Please allow 7 to 10 days for shipping as we ramp up.
Www.outsideedgeproducts.com
Happy restoring!
Onto our next one! WEEEEEE!
[quoted image]

Beauty!

I need two of the SoF please (yes I will watch for the shipping availability but I need 2)

#1248 8 months ago
Quoted from Outsidedge:

Pinbot is now live folks!
Please allow 7 to 10 days for shipping as we ramp up.
Www.outsideedgeproducts.com
Happy restoring!
Onto our next one! WEEEEEE!
[quoted image]

Woo hoo! Just got my order in!

#1249 8 months ago

I sold my Pinbot too soon.

#1250 8 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

I sold my Pinbot too soon.

= you saved yourself some work.

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