Quoted from La4s:

They are catered to two different markets, IMO. CPR is $600-700 + a complete playfield swap. Hardtop is $350 without a complete swap. So, i guess it comes down to time and money for each person.

Quoted from 64bsstp:

To clarify: you don't have to remove all the graphics. Basically, the playfield must be smooth and the inserts must be blank.
You do have to remove all the posts, hardware and rails on the top of the playfield so you can apply the Hardtop. In my case I remove the screws from some of the mechs (slings) and switch assemblies to drop them under the playfield to make it easier to sand.

Quoted from brenna98:

Take a closer look at any original playfield. The black keylines are never perfectly center. If you add black to fill in the bare wood spots, your keylines will be inconsistent thickness.

Quoted from vid1900:

There is no fancy ball bearing on the small guide router bits.
Just a polished edge that guides it.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-1-8-in-Shank-Steel-Drywall-Cutting-Rotary-Tool-Bit-for-Cutting-Drywall-560/203362633?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CG%7CVF%7CD25T%7C25-9_PORTABLE+POWER%7CDREMEL%7CNA%7CVersa%7c71700000037187511%7c58700004135694341%7c92700034613246421&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImKiS5rif3AIVDrnACh1lRQjYEAQYAiABEgJEq_D_BwE&dclid=CJrt3ui4n9wCFZLCwAodQH8Ngg

Quoted from scupbucket:

Another happy customer... great product and it saved my FP!
Quick question for the Outside Edge guys... Any possibility there would be an option to order these without the adhesive? Looking forward to High Speed... [quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from porkcarrot:

Any word on when we can order Flash Gordon?

Quoted from MrSanRamon:

In the email I was sent, this was the response: "...the costs associated are usually wayyyy higher than an average person realizes."
I just asked if it was possible, not if he thought I couldn't afford it.
I'm rethemeing a game, and have generated artwork for that game as every "rethemer" would do. Our choice now is pretty much to either hand paint a sanded off playfield or make a sticker/decal to put down as an overlay.
It would be so much easier for us, and probably longer lasting, to send in our artwork to have it printed on an already available/designed/made hardtop plastic piece.
It would take maybe 15 minutes to import a file (to a specific format) and register it properly for printing. Even at $200/hr overhead, that only adds $50 to the cost of the product.
From all of the posts about decal/sticker failure after installing and from my own experience of the process to get one of these overlays down onto a playfield without stretching or wrinkling the thing, one should see nothing but positives with having a semi-custom hardtops available.
I'm not dissing the effort to needed make these current Hardtops. I think that the people that are making these Hardtops are doing a great thing and saving some games from the being parted out and/or to make some marginal looking games beautiful again.
I just think that perhaps the next step would be to maybe offer some semi-custom work on an existing product.
Robert

Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

Stupid newb question, what does EBD mean?
Thanks

Quoted from creepykenny:

ugh, hardtops shut down until further notice, not good for me since i was about to place my first order with them on monday, just damn
on another note, does anybody have a firepower hardtop they can part with?

Quoted from Outsidedge:

Hi All! I am finally getting a chance to log on and clarify what we communicated on our site. We are actually shooting to be shipping product again by October. Earlier IS possible... but only if we are ready. Our end goal was to be down for 90 days tops. We just cannot make the changes we are making and also keep filling orders. Impossible.
1. Hardtops are NOT going away.
2. Yes, more titles... no, we will not comment on next titles due to the nature of how we are able to work on them. We made that mistake developing High Speed by announcing... then got daily barrages of emails asking "How long".
3. There IS a list somewhere on
here that I posted some time ago, and that list is still accurate as far as titles.
I will post updates sometime in the next 6 weeks here.
Thank you all for your interest in our product... we are thrilled to play a part in bringing games back to life.
It is our goal to figure out how to turn new titles faster, but that is a complicated thing when mixed into a commercial shop that needs to keep the lights on first and foremost with "wheelhouse" work. We are changing things that may yield results though!
As always, I will apologize for either no response or slow response to the many emails as: "Are you going to do XYZ title"... or "when will you be back... when will this title be ready". We just get so many... It's tough to field them all. We will do our best.
Remember this one though (to maybe reduce emails a little): We RARELY get permission for 3rd party titles like Star Trek, Indiana Jones.. or any other IP containing stars/singers/movies/characters. We have only gotten a few so far.
Again... Thank you...Thank you. Grill out, go swimming... we will be back!

Quoted from dnaman:

This is interesting to hear that they would go to the trouble of having a both to show their wares when it sounds like there is already a high demand while 'being overwhelmed' for the product while running this as a side business. They haven't been able or willing to communicate with this interested audience, any of their work in progress type updates etc... Who else, which audience would they be trying to target at a show? That doesn't make sense to me. Let's just get back online and rolling out new titles. The orders are waiting.

Quoted from Outsidedge:

New titles coming: Eight Ball Deluxe

Quoted from Outsidedge:

Good News Everyone! Xenon is available for ordering now. Please allow 10 days for shipping.
Happy New Year!!!

Quoted from heni1977:

Glad to see more and more of these coming out! Now get to F-14 already would ya!

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

...and the next title is...
http://www.outsideedgeproducts.com/
[quoted image]

Quoted from heni1977:

Nevermind, I researched it. I will wait for a beautiful hardtop. Neither, I or my buddy can afford that price.

Quoted from Clytor:

Mine is already down and I have overflow on both sides. A machinist could probably safely trim it for me? I thought about putting a thin strip of metal down(to protect the wood) in the shooter lane and cutting/grinding it down with the Dremel. Getting a straight clean line is the hard part. Maybe if I take my rails back off there will be enough play beyond the adhered part to left it up to safely trim it?

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

God please don't do F-14 before I sell my crummy cab/factory mylar F-14. Please save me from my own stupidity, just this once.
Make it a 2022 reveal, that works grrrrreat.

Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

LOL! I don't even know what a torsion box table is?
OK, I'll Google it!

Quoted from vid1900:

A torsion box table is like a giant I-beam grid.
It is dead flat, and stays that way. You can't flex it
Mine is 11.5" deep, so I can clamp anything to it and know it will glue up dead-nuts-square
If you build a rolling cart under it, make sure it is the same height as your tablesaw....you will instantly know why
Over the years, mine got covered in glue and gouges, so I pulled it up onto the CNC mechmate, and then ran a surfacing bit over the entire top - dead flat again.
[quoted image]

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

It got you thinking about a new Stern Top Gun pin?

Quoted from goingincirclez:

Does Outside Edge even pay attention to requests anymore? Seems like they make what they want or find convenient. Which is understandable to a point, and I don't begrudge anyone to run their business as they want, or pursue opportunities as they arise.
But some titles from the original poll, which have routinely been asked for since, are still begging 3 years later while some of the last few actually made have literally come from "huh?" territory. It's a little disheartening to see updated post counts and think "ooh announcements!" and then... same old requests ad nauseum, but here have Jokerz instead...

Quoted from Dee-Bow:

silverball mania

Quoted from vid1900:

^ Arggggg, the flesh skulls!

Quoted from danczaz:

Re: Flesh skulls
I talked to Bruce. There were multiple versions that were used in production and there was production variation. Nevertheless… He’s all for changing it if the consensus is that everyone wants them brown.
If you guys remember he spent almost 90 minutes discussing with Greg Freres is at pinball expo in a seminar the fact that all games are not the same, nor did they give two craps if they were the same when they were originally built.
They simply didn’t care, and Greg confirmed in front of all who are willing to listen… They didn’t care if there were five variations. They simply wanted to get the games out the door.
I attached a link below.
Good conversation and I confirm there are some exciting titles coming that will for sure be a surprise for all!
Dan
https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2017/10/13/pinball-expo-2017-3/

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Any word if Elektra is on the list to be made? Would be nice to know if it is a potential option or just off the list.

Quoted from vid1900:

Sigh...
We'd have a lot more playfield options if they weren't duplicating each other's efforts

Quoted from metalkatt:

Maverick

Quoted from Budwin:

Easy to criticize, harder to create.
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If that is your biggest problem, you are lucky.

Quoted from A1k71:

Before, During and After pictures.
Totally satisfied with the result.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from A1k71:

I'm looking for those stickers, but can't find them anywhere. I know eBay should be a good place, but no luck

Quoted from Spraynard:

exactly! The little dinky one i posted is meant to fit a dremel and probably would break with thick wood, but same basic principle. Forgot to mention, If you use that bit i posted make sure you use in combination with one of these to make sure you maintain the proper depth and keep the tool at 90 degrees to the playfield.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Spraynard:

agree with you for large areas but it probably won't work for tracing smaller holes. The small dremel bit is actually small enough to fit into a rollover switch slot.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

who cares, you already ruined the game.

Quoted from vid1900:

This expert uses a Wonder Wheel to remove the glue residue

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

My opinion on this. I have done several Hardtops, and all of them had some unusual haze or very fine scratches on a few of the clear insert areas like what is being described here. I don't know where it comes from, but my guess it might be caused from the manufacturing process of the HT. I don't know if they screen-print these, or print them on a printer. But if its screen-printed, I can see the squeegee making these blemishes during the pull process. Again, this is simply my guess, I really don't know how they make these.
With the above said, I still stuck my Hardtops and never saw any problem with the light shining through. IMO, the blemish is completely non-visible with the lamps off or on, and I don't consider it a problem at all. Perhaps you blemishes are worse than mine. Just my two cents.

Quoted from gdonovan:

Oh I would not mind a hardtop on a few titles, depends on the title and cost/benefit/time line.
Just the three I have played have been negative experiences with the one at Allentown being the worst. I'll not finger the pin as I have no desire to bag on someone bringing a pin to the show.
The ball got stuck three times during gameplay which is the point I gave up and moved onto another title.
I look at hardtops as being another tool in our toolbox for bringing pins back to life. Glad to have it there if needed but maybe not in all cases.

Quoted from gdonovan:

I would not be inclined to buy one before due to past negative experiences, my experience with this title just reinforced it further.
Never had a ball get stuck in an inlane before. Had to shake the hell out of the pin to shake it loose.
Not cool.
I'd like to buy one for the Space Shuttle I have here, each time I have an interaction with a hardtopped pin its a negative experience.
Am I to ignore what I have seen with my own eyes and buy one anyways? No thanks. Maybe its just bad luck on my part having run across three bad examples in a row, nothing I want to gamble a few hundred bucks and a few days labor to find out in person.

Quoted from mrm_4:

And yet stubborn ways will keep us painting over cheap wood and clearing thinner coats and bitching about dimples and pooling and wear because “that’s the way we’ve always done it!” Even though we aren’t doing it the “way we’ve always done it” it’s a watered down, rushed, horrible quality, cost cut so bad it’s not even funny new way that some how we are being asked to pay more for.
Hell, I can walk up to a machine now and with in a second of the first glance I can tell it’s CPR because it looks like the clear was applied in top to bottom strokes with a paint brush from Ace Hardware.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

wood is cheap, plastic slabs are not. Wood is easy to machine, plastics are not as easy. Wood much easier to repair if needed. people didn't like how they played. If they were better, either in manufacturing, costs, or play, they would still be being used.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

I specifically did not state plastic are hard to machine. What I said was "not as easy", plastics tend to wear bits faster and plastics can melt as the cutting edge fails and causes extra heat buildup.

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Please, please PLEASE take this somewhere else. The back and forth is by now waaaaaay beyond relevant.

Quoted from pinballizfun:

you think the company cutting fields will just go get laser cutters when they have perfectly serviceable mechanical cutters in house? That's might happen when replacement is needed, not just for the hell of it.

Quoted from jaytrem:

Yikes, I was hoping it was a Comet for your sake (only 1 rollover). I would try to break up one of the rollovers and see how much I can get out before cutting. They might be pretty brittle at this point. Would hit it (gently to start) with something about the size of the Hardtop hole and hopefully it splits like a log.

Quoted from newovad:

Hope this one is far enough gone for the purists. I’ve got Mylar clean up to do by the ramp exit of all places.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Mathazar:

Damn, I thought he went away.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

The box is really a great way to go. 2x6 aren't too bad right now and lowes/HD will cut them for you if you don't have a chop saw.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

2x6 or 2x8 and a couple screws to hold it together.
I just used some scrap I had, its visible in my post above ^ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-hardtops-thread/page/55#post-7106138
Its needed to full support under the playfield while sanding because without the rails the plywood has a LOT of flex and you don't want to work more inserts loose by flexing the playfield.

Quoted from Charles_Kline:

You need the height for the mechs.

I have a rotisserie too but once you remove the rails there is nothing to support the middle of the playfield while you sand. It’s not good to flex the plywood that much.
The box supports the playfield fully on all four sides.

Quoted from SYS6:

Shipping a Hard Top to Australia only has one option at US$180 just for the shipping - wow makes it a far less attractive option. Has any one worked out a more economical way to get one down under?

Quoted from Mathazar:

2 years is what I go by, based on this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-hardtops-thread/page/8#post-4705231

Quoted from zahner:

I looked at the company website that makes the adhesive, and I called the guys at hardtops. Mine was four years old. The company literature indicated that if it was stored in a cool environment it should be fine after four years. The guys at hardtop said if it was stored flat and kept cool like room temperature cool it should be fine. So far, mine has stuck like a son of a gun.

Quoted from goingincirclez:

I've replaced at least "some" inserts on 5 games, and replaced all of them on a Firepower. And out of let's say ~150 inserts placed into a playfield, maybe a dozen drop-fit with no grief. ALL of them had to have the mold ID marks sanded off the top. Which SUCKS because kiss that fresh smooth factory gloss surface goodbye: you're right back to sanding and polishing, so... hmm, might should have done that to the insert in the game?

Quoted from slag:

[quoted image]

Quoted from desertT1:

I won’t buy a playfield from Mirco.