You might be surprised how irrelevant those themes are outside of pinball in 2015 among people under 40.

Where did you see this?

Yep. I'm 36 and I know what Twilight Zone and Addams Family are, but I don't care very much about them.

Sopranos though... That's something I can watch over and over again.

For sale thread, deposits taken, from Little Shop of Games

This email was sent to distributors. Some pricing info too, I think.

My wife reads a lot and the first time I heard of Game of Thrones is when the TV series was announced. I told my wife about this and she informed me she owned the books (yes, and read them) and they were on her bookshelf. My wife is not into pinball and I don't read (novels etc.) but if I did I would say my wife and I have different tastes.

This is just an example of how "universal" and powerful this theme is and how my wife and I were exposed to it in two totally different mediums. A+ theme, now just waiting on Tuesday to see the execution.

This is a great time for pinball!

Jack played it; He doesn't like it!!!!!

You know, some of these themes seem to be "iconic" because we love the pinball machine that they are based around, but maybe not so much about the theme itself.

TZ, and TAF are largely unknown by young people. TAF was based on the Raul Julia movie, and not the original series. TZ had a little of both, the old series with Rod Serling and the movie. LOTR is basically an offshoot of the Hobbit trilogy, and really kin to The Hobbit, both of which have a large following with the teenage boys as readers of the book, but tie into the movies, right?

As for Star Trek, I'm not so sure how the younger folks would feel if the latest ST was based on the original series and not the newer movies with the Chris Pine cast. And finally, AC/DC and Metallica are geared more for the adult audience that remembers them in their heyday, same with Kiss. Kinda cool today, but really irrelevant to the youth of today.

That being said, WOZ is likely the only timeless theme there is. Whether or not you like the pinball machine, at least at some point in your life, maybe your youth, you were drawn to The Wizard of Oz, and maybe both loved it and were scared to death by it, but it did have an affect on you. That's timeless, whether it is good or bad.

Yes I do own one. I am pragmatic about it, and I will not say it is my favorite, because there is merit to most of the games discussed here, and I don't want to get into another JJP/Stern contentious argument. It is groundbreaking in a lot of aspects, but still an imperfect experiment. It is not the game I go to first, when I decide to play pinball, but it gets played regularly.

All that aside, GOT is a great theme that has the potential to be timeless. It is very much like the Hobbit trilogy in how it captures the imagination, and transports you to a different time and existence. This should be a good machine, if the same effort that went into the story is used in developing the pin. Can't wait to see it. There is a lot to work with.

Give them credit for creating something that was universally hated. Which would have resulted in a mass request to refund deposits. They HAD to do what they did.

Nah, twilight zone is universal. People use that phrase constantly. Even if they are not familiar with more than one or two individual episodes, they can recognize the theme music and know of the TV show and use the phrase to express weirdness.

The concept is universal, but that doesn't translate to the pinball game. I have no clue what the significance of the bubble gum or the clock are. I personally don't like the TZ pin, it's weird and too complicated for me to spend the time on, when I don't have any connection to the individual aspects of the game.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Sopranos is a great game. One of the most underrated pins out there.

Do i give them credit for improving a horrific design to save their pre-orders? Well, I guess.... But thats survival.

I stand behind the commentary that Stern cannot create anything so disappointing as TH's dragon(ish) head. Why? Because stern will show us a design in the next few days without having said a WORD to hype it! We didnt watch months of excrucuatingly slow reveals, building hype around the all-improtant and central dragon.... Only to finally get.... Well..... THAT.

I give JJP credit for a lot (massive innovation in video and sound), but NOT that sad dragon....

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who doesn't understand one gaddamn thing going on in that game.

I don't "hate" them. I tend to not like them though. AC/DC has a mini pf and I think that's one of the best pins ever made!

Also, what's a mini pf? Does Wh20 have a mini pf? I consider it an upper pf, and it's very different than the types of mini pf's that I don't like. I tend not to like the ones where you keep the ball in the mini pf for a long period of time, such as on FGY. On Wh20 you hit the ball once, and it exits the upper pf in one of two (or three) locations.

The upper pf on BK2000 is another example of an upper pf that is very well done.

Panzer trashing Stern and singing the praises of JJP/WOZ in a Stern thread????!!!

I'm shocked....shocked I tell ya!

So i'm thinking about how Stern could make those buildings and citys pop out of the playfield. All it would take, is a rough precut 3d Building that maybe could make a spiral ramp, or skip ramp or something. Have a bed of nail like this in the playfield. From the underside have a bracket mounted, similar to pop up heads, or use a motor system to raise and lower. The 3D image would go into the bed of nails from underside of the playfield. Could be interactive. Can take a hit by the ball, and the ball would be able to roll on the nails. Could have 3 or 4 of these on the playfield.

Could have a series of objectives to complete a building. Once building is revealed. you have access to another part of the game that you couldn't get to. Once all 3 or 4 buildings are setup. Then you can reach a final area that lets you start ending modes or objectives.

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Love GOT but expect to hear that theme tune over and over until your ears bleed!

I like the mini PF in TZ. It's very unique and fun to try. Speed bag on Champion a pub is fun. ACDC prem is not very fun but it looks cool. I really dislike the Pinbot/LOTR/Dark Knight/IJ type. It reminds me of pinball when pins were nailed into the wood.

So what? Every pinball machine ever usually has short loops of music. Hell, AC/DC and Metallica had full songs - not even loops - and a few people illogically complained that the music would get old. If I'm gonna hear the same music over and over - it might as well be good music. GoT's theme tune is awesome, composed by Ramin Djawadi ...who also did the music for Iron Man. That game has repeated loops of the movie's soundtrack - does anyone complain about being sick of it? No.

In fact - I *HOPE* the use the real music themes from the show...if not, I'll be less likely to buy one. That music is truly a "character" that needs to be in the game.

Exactly. And frankly, the thought of hearing the theme song to GoT in a pin makes me want the pin without even seeing a single picture of it.

I love the GOT boobs, but a White walker/ Nights watch type LE would be pretty awesome!

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I wonder if we have the technology yet to theoretically actuate every pin (so don't need 3d buildings) and treat them like pixels and just use a DMD or greyscale image to give every pin like 16 height positions (continuous would be better obviously). That would have all kinds of coolness both inside and outside of pinball

Incest dude. That is all. You people are excited about INCEST! Thumbs down jacket on.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Incest

Smaug wasn't impressive at Expo 2014 - but it's very cool now. JJP deserves credit for an awesome toy as it will be delivered. That is what people are going to get, not the dragon on the prototype

Well, Maybe I can help with that when you visit.....

This version might make your ears bleed tho

If it was possible, I think it would be too cost prohibitive. the model method, would be cheap and easy, since you don't even need to paint it. Hell, it could just be thick vacuum formed pieces really.

While GOT does have an incestual under current running through it Stern can avoid celebrating the incest theme simply by not referencing any of the guilty families or characters in their pin. Easy Peasy and no one has to be offended or grossed out.

You're grabbing one aspect of the show.

What about the time Iron Man flew to Afghanistan and murdered all those terrorists? Or in The Walking Dead when a pregnant mom was given a C-section by her own son with a dirty knife in prison?

I could go on and on, but let's see the forest from the trees here. GoT has dozens of stories and themes that would translate very well to pinball.

Or I could be wrong and we'll see Incest Multiball when you drain your balls into Cersei.

Addams Family isn't really all that timeless it feels pretty dated as that movie isn't really relevant outside the early 90s.

Although it would have been a lot more dated had the machine included the MC Hammer song from the movie.

I love the statue from Clockwork Orange in the background.

Clockwork Orange? Now that would be a pin that I would buy sight unseen.

Everyone I know who loves pinball is beyond excited for GOT. This is gonna be a homerun for Stern. As much as I want to see The Hobbit succeed, if Stern shows a killer game on Tuesday and I've had my Hobbit money locked up for 2 years, JJP's phone lines are going to be ringing off the hook for refunds. Just watch. It makes total sense to buy a GOT LE, get in within a couple months and then go get a Hobbit a year from now when you can have your pick. Where as GOT LE's will all be sold out and probably selling for a premium.

I know were are prematurely hyping GOT before seeing it, but Stern is operating on another level lately and they know GOT could sink their only competitor. As much as some people think Stern wants JJP around, don't kid yourself. This is business. Why would anyone else making money off of pins be good for Stern? The only thing good about competition is innovation. And for that I am thankful JJP made WOZ and showed what a 21st century pin could be. Had hopes JPOP would have taken it to an even higher level (didn't happen).

Honestly, I've hated watching Hobbit pre-order guys suffer the way they have and JJP deserves this...they could have beaten Stern to the fantasy dollar a year ago, heck maybe even forced Stern to release GOT before it was better thought out, but man, Stern has had a year now to study the competition, hear the feedback, and design something epic.

The JJP faithful have to seriously be questioning the horse they back now. Stern keeps giving us the goods while those faithful have their money locked up for years. It's BS and this lesson needs to be learned by the JJP camp.

Lastly, I think Stern has a lock down on pinball parts, and that's where their real advantage lies. I don't doubt that JJP wants Hobbit out and the delays are real. Stern doesn't have the worry about that because those guys have their parts supply figured out. And they have deals with parts suppliers that give Stern exclusive access. That is where their real advantage lies. God whenever I think of JPOP redesigning every part, every screw, with no idea how to make it, I get sick.

May both pins ship soon and may the best dragon win. My money's on GOT.

I get what your saying but both your examples would be viewed as acts of heroism by any educated person.

Playing devils advocate:

When I saw Iron Man in the theater this scene brought an outburst of cheering and applause. He saved the villagers.

What was Carl to do? He saved his sister's life.

This would be funny as hell but a bit appalling at the same time!

You don't want to be on the side of the argument defending incest. You can't win. People in Medieval times knew it was wrong as most people still tend to frown upon incest today.

Perhaps a better argument would be incest was more prevalent during the time period of GOT. But still, shouldn't be celebrated today.

In my opinion Pinball machines are celebrations of their respective themes ...what with all the bells and whistles and what not. This is why there will never be a Titanic pin. Titanic the film was based on a disaster that took the lives of 1517 women, men, and children to the bottom of the ocean. It is doubtful we will ever see a Pin celebrating that fact.

I'd like there to be some mode, maybe a Red Wedding mode, that has "The Rains of Castamere" playing in the background.

Probably just a musical score, but maybe the lyrical version could work...

As long as we're on the topic of Hobbit theme vs. GOT, I think GOT wins in the music department. I don't remember anything from Hobbit at this point, and that's not the case with even LOTR where music from that comes into my head on a very regular basis (even had "Concerning Hobbits" in my wedding). GOT, of course, has the main theme that any fan remembers and a few other notable tracks, but mainly the opening theme (also in my wedding... ).

If you don't mind losing $1000 and the possibility of getting a Smaug Edition.

So the moral of the story is: reveal before completion is bad? For Stern games I see countless mod threads of by Stern customers coming up with solutions to annoying game play and aesthetic issues. There's obviously benefits and drawbacks to each approach, but I'd lean toward customer feedback before finalization as a slightly better approach.

Nobody is saying incest is good. But does it happen ever? If we don't talk about it does that mean it will never happen?

This is a fictional work, it's like when fictional orcs kill a bunch of innocent people, that's wrong. Do you think everyone in a fantasy world goes around like a boy scout helping old ladies cross the street? There are supposed to be killings and oath breaking and back stabbing and such. Worse things occur than incest in the books. However, it's quite easy that the incest is not 100% spelled out in the pinball game, but that Joffery is the son of Cersei and Jamie is integral to the books and the TV show (not sure how releveant or how much detail will be necessary for the pin).

Just to be clear, that first image you posted isn't the 2014 Expo Smaug, it was further behind in development than that.

I think his talking is fine. But ... that's about all he does that's interesting, and when he's not talking he doesn't even look cool, just weirdly turned to the side.

Very curious to see what The King and Krew bring the table for their dragon.

What was there from the movie? I love that film, it scared me as young lad but what a great movie. I loved the Addams family films too, both of them. I'm 40 by the way, so mid to late 30's guys should know of them as well.

Yep, that sums up the story in it's entirety. Do you work for CliffsNotes?

Totally agree with you but I don't think you realize just how much incest is woven throughout GOT.

Have a read:

Yikes!!!

How in the hell did this get to incest?

Even being in the show, it's a really weird thing to bring up in the context of a pinball machine.

Incest in a fictional fantasy novel?!?! The horror!!!!

Here's another story you must be equally horrified/disgusted with:
The Bible: Genesis.
The entire human race was descended from a single couple.

I hope they never make a pin from THAT book- you'd really be offended.

Amen. When I received my STLE, I was really disappointed they didn't use the amazing main theme (by Michael Giacchino). Just lame. I know this is possible to hack yourself, but I like keeping my pins fairly stock in terms of software.

Hope HBO requires the original theme be used on GOT...would imagine the licensee could dictate this.

Maybe, but you have to admit it's a lot better than sticking a random toy in a cylinder for the "big reveal"

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I thought incest was normal for royal families? To keep the bloodline "pure".