"Tesla says"
But at what point did it reach 80% 200,000 300,000 350,000 miles ?????

And in what amount of time did it happen. Did they put 500k miles on it in a year, or more / less? Will a Tesla Battery lose more, less or the same capacity in a real world usage environment?

You can definitely replace the batteries on it. However the Leaf does have the worst resale value of any car in the industry, regardless of engine type, so I'm not sure it's the best comparison.

I think we established that you won't buy it and are no fan. This reads like an Apple vs PC discussion.
Everybody thinks they are right, and in the end nobody is right or wrong and it is all about preference and what works best for you and your particular situation.

you really should make sure you have your facts straight before laying the snark on that thick. your truck may not have come from Mexico, but from 2009 to 2014, many (not all) Ford F150s sold in the U.S. were assembled in Mexico. Ford doesn't say how many were produced at each plant - they only report numbers for "North America". but you can easily find news articles from around 2014 talking about Ford moving F150 production from Mexico back to the U.S.

Currently, the Mexican Ford plants build the Fusion, Fiesta, Lincoln MKZ, as well as the Duratec engines, the 4.4L Turbo Diesel, and the 6.7L PowerStroke V8 Diesel engines. Chrysler and GM assemble tons of cars in Mexico as well, including the Silverado, Dodge Ram, and Cadillac Escalade.

i suppose i could do some simple regression analysis based on the available data, but let's be honest, are you actually interested in the answer, or do you just want to be hostile towards Tesla? there are some people here who, if the numbers turned out to be decent, would just start throwing poo from some other angle instead.

if you are interested in looking at real-world Tesla battery life data, you can look at the survey results yourself -- there are charts here: https://survey.pluginamerica.org/model-s/charts.php and the raw data is here: https://survey.pluginamerica.org/model-s/results.php

On the leaf or the tesla?

You can replace the battery on a Leaf through Nissan. The resale value certainly is the pits on this vehicle...which is exactly what I took advantage of. My 2012 was $35k when it was brand new and I bought it with 28,500 miles on it for $8200. Have had it for almost a year and with the free charging at my wife's work...it has saved us about $160 per month in gas. Great little car, heated front & rear seats, heated steering wheel, great factory audio, and with the torque being instant, its quick! My realistic real world range is about 55-65 miles per charge. The 2013+ Leafs seem to retain their battery better than the first gen 2011-2012 Leafs. There was a guy who put 150,000 miles on his Leaf and his battery capacity was down to about 55% and I think his range was like 40 miles. Still plenty for most people's daily commute.

Also, My daily commute is 3 miles round trip so I ride a bike to work or my 50cc scooter. We spend about $40 bucks a month on gas between my gas vehicles since the majority of our tooling around town is in the Leaf.

Yes, false.

This just came up on AI applications beyond cars:

https://www.engadget.com/2017/03/27/elon-musk-neuralink-ai-cranial-computing/

Also, Tesla is now worth more than Ford.

Besides all that and their space contracts, I wouldn't bet against Tesla.

Nissan leaf battery pack replacements were around $5500 in 2014. At that price it does sort of make it not financially practical to replace the battery pack for a car that is over 6 or 7 years old because of the cars value.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-at-5500.html

Nissan did some things wrong, and the industry as a whole has learned from their mistakes. You don't ever need to replace the batteries in an electric car, minus very rare instances of defective cells. Batteries in electric cars are designed to go 250,000 miles plus with a very reasonable amount of degradation.

Batteries are probably the last thing to worry about when it comes to electric cars.

I feel that the thing that would get electric vehicles to be more widely accepted (in addition for the need for widespread charging stations) would be a trade-in policy for the battery packs. Something like a 5 year full replacement warranty and then a trade-in policy for around $1000 as needed for the life of the car would ease people's worries that their car would not become a large paperweight.

I buy new cars and keep them until they are very old (15 plus years) so I want something that will save me money as it gets older. Modern cars really don't cost much to maintain even when they are old unless you buy German. My 12 year old Ford has zero dollars spent on maintenance (not including tires, oil, batteries, and brakes). My wife's 12 year old Toyota has only about $400 in parts and maintenance so far (alternator and one fuel injector). I don't care about resale value because I don't sell them.

The battery pack on the Chevy Volt has an 8-year warranty.

well, the Tesla drivetrain warranty, including the battery, is 8 years, unlimited miles. although it's not explicitly stated anywhere, the rumor is that if battery capacity drops below 80% during that time, they will replace it -- that would be beyond normal wear patterns and considered defective. however, it is hard to find anyone that has so far had that problem. even old Tesla Roadsters with inferior battery tech are holding up better than that.

after the warranty expires, Tesla will replace the battery for $12,000. this is something they offer to address the specific concern of the car being bricked once it's out of warranty.

honestly, i think these policies beat the pants off of standard car warranties, but change is scary i guess. people worrying about what's going to happen 8+ years after they buy a car is not really a typical part of the new car conversation.

Is it going to be $12000 for a new battery pack for the new Tesla car that was $35,000 new? That is not enticing to most people in that price range. The car will not be worth much more than $12k when it is 8 years old.

The replacement batteries need to get to the point where their cost is a fraction of the used car's value.

Refried confusion is making itself clear. 100% true that the Leaf and the Tesla uses lithium ion batteries

image (resized).jpg

Hopefully they can bring the battery prices way down with more mass production and enhanced design.

In 10 years I have seen the price drop on R/C batteries for ducted fan from about $600.00 to $500.00.
That is for two 6S 5000mahr with 60C discharge rate...
Still if your fly them hard the capacity loss quickens.

I am still waiting for Kenworth and Boeing to make electric vehicles.

This has already happened. Google "Tesla Gigafactory." Mass production and enhanced design is why the Model 3 exists.

They don't. The cost of replacement batteries is a non issue. Batteries on EV's have extended warranties, plenty of time to get under warranty replacements, which almost never happens.

Battery replacements are rare, there should be next to no instances of not under warranty battery replacements. Of course batteries can go bad, and of course they can go bad out of warranty, and I'm sure there are horror stories out there (that aren't Leaf related), but it's one of the last things you have to worry about when buying an EV.

My brother got the first year leaf. Maybe I misunderstood him, and replacing the battery is possible, but cost prohibitive. He stopped driving into work because there were a few times the battery died quicker than expected.

I am a strong supporter of alternative fuel vehicles. I used to have a Honda Civic natural gas before it was stolen. I look forward to the day when solar technology and battery technology allow for solar powered cars to be practical for everyday use.

Tesla going to replace the battery for $12,000. 00, if it fails? when it was $35,000 new..
Half value.., and it WILL NEED REPLACING IN ITS LIFETIME., no thank you.

Really? You going to put over 300,000 miles on a car before you sell it? I never have.

Forgot to mention, last week drove the new Nissan hydrogen powered car off the ship. Not sure how viable it's long term future is, but there was one notable thing about it that bothered me. As the engine burned the hydrogen, it made an annoying sound like a percolating coffee maker. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I just found it unnerving.

What makes you think it will need replacing? So far, all real-world indications, as well as Tesla's internal tests, say the batteries are a non-issue. There is a lot of data, and no shortage of Tesla owner forums to read. They are as finicky as pinball owners whining about dimples when it comes to the door handles and autopilot features, but conspicuously absent are complaints about battery degradation, even from Roadster and first-generation Model S owners.

If I put 300,000 miles on a car, and the choice is to replace the battery on it for $12,000 and drive it another 300,000, I already know what I would do.

Additionally, even if I drive it an insane amount, we're talking about replacing it ten years after you get it. In my prior gas cars, when I drive them long enough parts start drying up and the price actually seems to go up to keep them going - my prior car, before I got rid of it, needed a part that because it had gone out of production would have cost more than the value of the car, and the other option was to salvage one and hope it didn't have the same problem for half the cost... still nearly the value of the car! In a car like this, assuming it's not rusting and falling apart, ten years later I could replace what is probably the most complex part and potentially use it for another 300k? And by then, it would probably improve the performance of the car?

Sign me up.

#fakenews

OK the cost of assembling the battery packs will drop some, but the cost of raw materials will be the same or go up.

This reminds me. What ever happened to those flat AA batteries? I remember seeing them in Best Buy about 15 years ago, thinking how cool it would be to have slimmer products. Because at that time, MP3 players were brand new, and still using AA's, as well as digital cameras.

Tried to find an image of them on Google, but no luck.

I must have missed the part where batteries became complex. Are they?

I'll believe a 600K - no, scratch that - 300K electric car when I see the odometer myself.

well, the Model S has only been around a few years. i don't think anyone's there yet. here's an article about one with over 200,000 miles on the odometer, though: https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/29/tales-from-a-tesla-model-s-at-200k-miles/

interesting tidbit: battery had only degraded 6%.

But is there a data logger that shows rates of charge and discharge?
If the newest design of battery can maintain 90+% capacity for 300K to 500K miles with hard use then I will be impressed.

The Tesla roadster did not fair well at the hands of Jeremy Clarkson.

Uff that's a sticky situation with Top Gear

As much of a car guy as I am, I can't bring myself to watch Top Gear because I have always felt Jeremy is an unbearable walking, talking rectum. Fortunately I have Velocity channel and plenty of other car shows to watch.

I like Top Gear, but Jeremy Clarkson is an entertainer and clearly has an axe to grind against the very idea of electric cars.

Top Gear has new presenters...including Matt Leblanc dreadful show now

Jeremy Clarkson was the only reason I watched Top Gear.

Watching season 23 right now as I type and dreadful.

Completely serious here, how many regular cars go 300k to 500k? I've driven my cars into the ground, and I know others that have too, and 250k seems to be about it.

Is it really realistic that people are complaining that a Tesla's battery won't work as well at 500k miles? Just seems like a crazy number.

Call it the part most prone to failure outside normal wear and tear if that makes you feel better.

I own a P85D. It's for sale if any pinheads are interested. I need to raise cash to support my pinball addiction.
I am putting it up for sale on cargurus this week. Not sure of the price yet, but it will be around $90,000. Why sell it you ask - besides needing cash to feed my insatiable pinball appetite? I do love the instantaneous 5g acceleration, but getting lightheaded every time floor it, is not cool. Actually, I think Tesla could be in trouble in the next few years and I do not want to be sitting on a car with a bankrupt manufacturer behind it. Their losses are not sustainable and cult like following or not, eventually a day of reckoning comes.

I'm in. Just need to find a place to park my truck. Nah I'll sell the truck and buy another one. 35k+ sure beats the 45k F150 + the 1200 bucks in gas I sink in it.

I guess I'll chime in. I owned a '13 P85+ for about 6 months and moved it along. First off, I'm an SUV type person. I like the additional room and the higher ingress/egress. I found myself very interested in the Model X, but at the time, it was a couple years out. So, I decided to try the Model S as a way to evaluate first-hand what Tesla was all about.

What I LOVE about the car: Persistent internet connection for "radio" and navigation via Google Maps. No gas station visits and always having a full tank (nightly plug-in). It opens my garage door when I approach the driveway automatically. It closes the garage door automatically when I leave. The acceleration (although it does take an adjustment period if you are, like me, prone to motion sickness - even with just normal driving). The gas pedal is also the brake pedal (love!). It preconditions the cabin based on a learned driving schedule (awesome!). You can set the cabin temperature with your phone (awesome!) AND see the cabin temperature at any time.

What I didn't like (besides that it was a car): Very chintzy accoutrements (compared to any other similarly priced car) No place to put stuff other than on the floor tray (no console, no door pockets, small glovebox, no seat back pockets, no ledges, nothing). No vanity light or even a door on the sunshade mirror. Terrible, terrible seats (did not have the upgraded $3K seats) - this was probably the main reason for trading it off. Marginal fit and finish of body panels. Going to TPF from Oklahoma City, I had to make 2 stops of about 30 minutes each way for electrons (although free, still it added a little more than an hour each way to my travel).

I do intend on buying a used X in the future - just waiting for the right strike price. That could change depending on the competition and/or Teslas financial condition. My mind is BLOWN as to why none of the big automakers STILL haven't stepped up to the plate with a similar vehicle.

I'm thinking the model 3 is going to be the pro version of the model S. The premiums have more features, but the pro models are really fun too and cost a lot less.

Pretty good analogy, I think. We don't really know many details about the Model 3 yet, but Elon says the Model S will still be faster and have more features. It will be interesting to see an exact feature set.

many different passengers have said it is like being on a launched roller coaster when i floor it in Ludicrous. i personally love roller coasters, so i drive around in Ludicrous mode all the time. but you can switch it to "Sport" (or just buy a base model) and it accelerates like a normal car. nobody will force you to mash the accelerator pedal.

he means the interior is not as nice as other $85,000 luxury cars, and he's absolutely right. the touchscreen is the biggest and best designed screen in the industry, but other than that, the interior is definitely sparse.

For those that don't follow Doug Demuro, he did a great review on the tesla X, basically debunking all the negativity:

Or you could watch these idiots test all the door sensors with carrots and hot dogs:

IMO the best car in the world is the Mercedes S Class. That's what I want next. A bit pricey but real quality, guv'nor.

Tesla's smart move would be to partner with a large luxury maker like Merc. Not BMW obviously

Imagine an S Class doing 0-60 in 2 seconds? hehe.

If Tesla don't work with Merc in Stuttgart then it'll just take a few more years, I guess.