Chinese Homepin is not better. See: Thunderbirds.

Japan is not into pinball, so scratch that. Maybe a Europe manufacturer resurgence, but I doubt it.

What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

The problem probably isn't worse than Wonka.

The amount of mulitballs / add-a-balls has to accelerate the damage.

I wonder what average balls per game on GNR is compared to a "typical" modern era pin?

Not all CE's are having issues - we don't know if the ones that sold above MSRP were showing damage and/or the buyer was aware of what to look for

Please show me that law....

Some day, some way, some company.

I spent 21 years working with 2 global construction equipment manufacturers, and almost 6 years working for a manufacturers trade association. I spent another 9 years working for a company that did the parts and operators manuals for 30 OEMs. ALL the manufacturers were impacted by QC issues which resulted in offerings provided from elsewhere - and many of their customers leaving to buy the new offerings. Mostly the decision was NOT based on price or features, but for better quality and attention to details.

You keep playing it. Having some pooling/chipping doesn't render a game useless. The extra playfield is for peace of mind.

With a blank playfield at least you can give it years to cure and harden, lessening the chance of failure again. Then you can play the one in your machine into the ground with peace of mind.

I think JJP are just making it hard and quite probably bluffing. It is a very small gamble for them as I am sure they will onsell the game through a distro if they did buy it back. It has been thought out quite well.. If you are going to complain, they punnish you by buying your game back. A manufacturer making games is playing games also.

Did you ask them if you could buy a playfield?

It falls under the fraud statute of Federal Truth in Advertising law. You are fraudulently selling a not-new returned or refurbished item as new. That's fraud.

Passed on 2 of my POTCCE spots for this very reason. Had to have the game as a huge Eric fan however, so bought a nice LE w spare playfield. It's got washers which are migrating, but except for the occasional "ball under the sling" it's acceptable.

Spoke w Chris some time back, and will pursue the pf swap w his genious at some point....way too busy to be dragging these machines around currently.

No is my solid answer...suspect I'm alone in this thought however.

If anything this thread has convinced me to stop buying NIB JJPs... I have a NIB Wonka CE with pooling but no current damage to the artwork. Then I have a NIB POTC CE that I got a new PF (unpopulated) for because of this issue apparently before JJP decided completely screwing over their customers was good business. It's pretty freaking clear that JJP isn't interested in fixing this or they'd have done it by now. It's appalling how they're handling it now as well and that was the final nail for me. Either send the game back for a retail refund or... F u? What? The? Fudge...??? So if someone actually wants to play the game they're forced to accept absolutely abhorrent quality "or else"?

For the prices they're charging, words cannot describe how absolutely pathetic this is. I don't know what happened to them but this complete customer disregard started with the Wonka CE topper debacle and has just snowballed from there. JJP clearly doesn't care about its customers, only its bottom line. I hope their next title completely flops, in epic fashion.

Jeff

put it in the backbox and its a pinball upper decker! LOL

I emailed Barry asking if I return the game to my distro for a refund. will see if we get reply.

sorry to say that you are going to get issues all over the playfield.

I bet they are not torquing it down by hand. Had new tires put on my mini van and needed a breaker bar to get the lugs off because the mechanic used a 1/2” impact gun to put them on. I am a strong guy and I had trouble getting them off when I went to do my brakes.

Send it to HEP and have him work his Voodoo on it.

sadly on my TNA the chipping has gone past the washers.

If I had a CE-
Ask to buy another CE playfield- send it to HEP for clear coating.. let it cure for a couple of years and then do playfield swap and sell it if you are bored of it for $15K or more!

It sucks

If it's an ink adhesion issue does re-clearing even help?

spooky had some issues but resolved them and worked with customers to resolve those issues including me.

Neil.

This. For the people shouting to just sell the defective game and move on... what if they want to keep the title and just not have it be defective? Not everyone buys and sells titles right and left, or flips for profit. For me, when I take a chance and buy a NIB game, it's not a decision I take lightly. It needs to be a game I really connect with for whatever reason. Sometimes I make a bad call, get bored with the game quickly, and move it on. Other times, I keep the game for many years, or indefinitely. A defective game is a problem either way, whether because of reduced value or reduced enjoyment.

I advocate for the consumers on these issues because I am one, and I want to buy more new games without worrying about this issue. I'm honestly surprised at how many people don't care if their games look nice, or at least claim to not care. Isn't that why many of us wax, maintain, and restore older games? Who doesn't want their pins, especially new/expensive titles, to look nice for years to come? I have always had a strong appreciation for JJP and their ambition to create pins more akin to the classic B/W games. Stern had mostly become complacent and stale by the point where JJP showed up on the scene. For me, it's painful to watch this tarnish their legacy while Jack himself is left as a bench warmer. I sincerely hope they can right the ship.

You got that wrong.

You receive the replacement playfield and then flip all that crap to a Derek or a Levi.
Done. Now someone elses problem, just as JJP think and do themselves.

The problem is no one knows EXACTLY what the problem is. IF it's an issue of the solvents from the spray ink getting trapped by the clear that's applied before the ink has settled and causing bad adhesion, that MIGHT be fixed by more cure time. And if that's not the issue, then sanding down and re-clearing with someone who knows their stuff should take care of the pooling.

Bottom line, a spare playfield gives options. That's a good thing.

There aren't enough Derek or Levis for that scenario.

What shocks the shit out of me is that neither JJP or Stern has thrown a plane ticket and $10,000 at HEP to come fix their issues.

I can see it now. HEP strolls in, spends 20 minutes there and says “Here’s your issue and this is how you fix it. I’ll be at the bar across the street if you need me”.

If anyone has a game and wants to do a pf swap. Ill do the swap for 1K.

I ordered this game to keep it. But sadly I have to contemplate flipping it NIB if this isn’t resolved by the time it ships. I’m willing to deal with standard issues (tweaking stuff, stuff rattling loose, plastic damage, wear & tear). This issue is way too excessive to ignore. What is very bizarre is JJP is silent on this. It’s almost like they have too many orders and are glad to peel off a few rather than fix it. I was rooting for them but now they’re rivaling Deeproot for worst communication. This is the moment when Pinball jumped the shark

I bought a used wonka le with lots of play field issues years ago ... I used a heat gun to flatten out the areas and put some rubber washers on from lowes and have played it a ton since and it hasn't gotten any worse . I'll probably add the clear titan ones at some point but it's been a great pin and tons of fun. I recommend you do the same thing. If not I'd b willing to purchase it and do the same thing I did to my wonka . Just let me know.... but it needs to be enjoyed so hopefully u decide to add washers or sell... no sense in having something u cant enjoy bc of the issues. Good luck with whatever you decide to do..

Buy 90s DMD games. Impressive builds and built to last. That’s your safe harbor.

Huge fan of JJP builds and design, though. I’d sell the company, get off the hook for this stuff, learn and rebuild. I just don’t see it economically viable to address all of these issues. What are manufacturing and product standards that need to upheld? Could this company be held to the fire someway? What percentage of games have issues? How fast do these issues manifest themselves?

A sign of good leadership would be to hire PR firm to help work through, come out with statement, and work towards a resolution. Accept responsibility and move the ball forward.

Any absence of this is not a good sign.

I have an LE and I really like it. That being said, I will be extremely pissed if my playfield begins to chip or separate. I swore off nib JJP ever since WOZ, but this draw of this game and the involvement of Slash brought me back.

They did make a great game. For some undisclosed reason, they can’t seem to get the PF issue solved and they are suffering from a lack of communication and transparency. In a vacuum of information, the worst will be assumed.

Like a good wine??

Check out this player’s collection?
Not a JJP fan!

Did you buy that?

Yes...Thought that I might need it some day. The cost came down to my distributor and I and he took care of me the best he could.

As I posted earlier, I'm not holding my breath that JJP will do the right thing to take care of us.

Thanks very much for sharing that, very much appreciated. I think we may be going down the same route.

Thanks for the confidence. People have been asking me about this since Wonka.
I don’t have any time nor desire to inherit another company’s problem into my life anymore than is totally necessary to conduct my own affairs.
I am truly a man of leisure at least mentally and I value that lifestyle far above anything else.

Man, this thread makes me and my $1k deposit very sad.

Any issues on the SE? Mine is fine.
Only seems to be LE and CE

What is the date stamped on your playfield?

I thought this picture needed to included in this thread. It’s under the apron on my CE.

1E75DE10-B9AF-4F70-BBFB-ED537429558B (resized).jpeg

I do not own a GNR but I do own a WoZRR. The playfield is perfect without a flaw in sight. Not even hardly any dimpling at all! It’s a 2014 build so one of the oldest ones out there.

What has JJP done different from making a tough as nails playfield with WoZ to making shitty playfields after that? Doesn’t make sense to me.

I did own a Maiden premium that had pooling issues which stern sent out a new playfield.

I like JJP games and am looking forward to another title.... but this is crazy to me that this hasn’t been figured out yet.

Sorry to all the players who bought a CE. I played an LE (GNR) and enjoyed it. But with all these issues no way am I spending for one now.

Bader vs. Mirco?

I don’t see a date on the playfield anywhere but manufacture date is feb 2021

WTF.

Have you asked JJP if they will?