(Topic ID: 293976)

GNRCE Playfield issues!

By Skyemont

5 months ago


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  • 865 posts
  • 202 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Palmer
  • Topic is favorited by 47 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “GNRCE Playfield issues!”

    • No issues 35 votes
      32%
    • A few issues but I can deal with it 14 votes
      13%
    • I need a new playfield 61 votes
      55%

    (110 votes)

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    Topic index (key posts)

    6 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #5 HEP identifies the issue immediatly. Posted by High_End_Pins (5 months ago)

    Post #96 Myth about outlawed chemicals Posted by High_End_Pins (5 months ago)

    Post #173 Mirco clearcoat & post tests Posted by High_End_Pins (5 months ago)

    Post #726 HEP comment on the two easy to see direct issues. Posted by High_End_Pins (4 months ago)

    Post #807 Reminder of thread purpose. Posted by Skyemont (4 months ago)


    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

    There are 865 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 18.
    32
    #1 5 months ago

    I normally don’t start a topic but I’m so pissed right now I need to vent. I would like to know what serial number you have and do you have issues. Post pics if you want. I know there are a few topics on this but I’m more concerned about the CE. If I purchased a Ferrari and it had a scratch, do you think they would send me a bottle of touch up
    Paint? I don’t want a damn washer JJP. How hard do you have to torque down the washer? I put a ticket in but I’m sure my washers are in the mail which I will mail back.

    092B7D6D-DD41-4E99-9C1C-804C5456BB5B (resized).jpeg4F0C7AC2-3F63-4C2E-9016-5D2A1FE9E569 (resized).jpeg90FAF8B5-91F9-4779-9F6D-2C27E39EE1FA (resized).jpeg
    #2 5 months ago

    Ouch.

    37
    #3 5 months ago

    I do not own a JJP game, but this playfield malarkey has gone on way too long. Shame upon those responsible....

    28
    #4 5 months ago

    It's a shame to see this happening. I don't think just CE owners should complain. Got a bad SE, LE, and CE complain. All these games cost way too much for this type of quality.

    63
    #5 5 months ago

    This definitely looks like a adhesion problem in my eyes. The ink is lifting all the way under the Mylar.
    If you have to pad the landing spot for each and every part then there is a problem that could be much better addressed by fixing the true underlying issue .

    #6 5 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    This definitely looks like a adhesion problem in my eyes. The ink is lifting all the way under the Mylar.
    If you have to pad the landing spot for each and every part then there is a problem that could be much better addressed by fixing the true underlying problem.

    Hep, I wonder why JJP and Mirco don't hire a 3rd party consultant to review the entire process of playfield construction through to installation in the game. I feel like this problem for them is a culmination of many small decisions that have a negative end result. If it were me, I would be checking species of wood, humidity of the wood, glues used in the plywood, the materials used by the printing process, install at the factory, etc..

    JJP, are they going to decide to be a pinball manufacturer that has games that are coveted for decades to come, or thrown out like disposable electronics.

    16
    #7 5 months ago

    Robots on mars ... can't make a playfield that doesn't come apart?

    #8 5 months ago

    This is some bs right here. Months ago the word was the ce was going to have different play fields that were better, even the newest run of les supposed to be better. Sadly it appears they are worse than ever.

    Unfortunately with people paying 20-35k for faulty pirates and 20k for gnrce jjp has little to no motivation to do anything about it. What happens when a group of investors runs a pinball company

    38
    #9 5 months ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    Hep, I wonder why JJP and Mirco don't hire a 3rd party consultant to review the entire process of playfield construction through to installation in the game. I feel like this problem for them is a culmination of many small decisions that have a negative end result. If it were me, I would be checking species of wood, humidity of the wood, glues used in the plywood, the materials used by the printing process, install at the factory, etc..
    JJP, are they going to decide to be a pinball manufacturer that has games that are coveted for decades to come, or thrown out like disposable electronics.

    I wondered the same thing when all this first started happening. There are labs and chemist that could easily identify what’s going on.
    My thought is they already know but don’t like the answer or solution. Whatever it is I can only imagine must be too tough or expensive to overcome and they would rather continue on this path.
    I have been doing some things daily the exact same way for almost thirty years now and with technology they could be done differently,easier cheaper you name it. Why do I torture myself with some of these old school processes?
    Because they work well. There is a history of durability and I know anytime I deviate from that I lose that comfort zone I am operating in and introduce unknowns into the process that may show up immediately or may not be known until it is far too late to correct them.
    Not worth the risk.
    The question in regards to this playfield issue is how can this seemingly consistent outcome be acceptable? At what point do you say this isn’t working but the old way did?

    22
    #10 5 months ago

    Every time I think about buying a NIB, I think about the playfield issues and that usually steers me away from making it happen.

    I just got a HS2 that's 30 years old. It has a diamond playfield, looks brand new.

    I don't get why we've regressed in pinball manufacturing. As long as people keep buying games with such playfield issues, nothing will change.

    -11
    #11 5 months ago

    Need to change the poll to read "A few issues but 'trying' to deal with it". Only time will tell if our little fixes work long term. But until then, I am certainly not going to let these playfield issues stop me from enjoying my machine.

    #12 5 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    I normally don’t start a topic but I’m so pissed right now I need to vent. I would like to know what serial number you have and do you have issues. Post pics if you want. I know there are a few topics on this but I’m more concerned about the CE. If I purchased a Ferrari and it had a scratch, do you think they would send me a bottle of touch up
    Paint? I don’t want a damn washer JJP. How hard do you have to torque down the washer? I put a ticket in but I’m sure my washers are in the mail which I will mail back.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Was just curious so i checked mine, same issue with lower left inlane. Unfortunate to say the least.
    Im not against getting a new field, but im never gonna do a swap thats insane. Did a swap on a older game recently and that was a ton of work. I dont have time for it.

    I did get the micro guarantee thing under the apron, guess that didnt matter much.
    Still gonna play it, but im out on future titles, till this isnt a thing anymore.

    #13 5 months ago

    The closer I look the worse it gets. Located another one.

    #14 5 months ago
    BEED896A-E6AB-46AD-9041-7056FF8A6E15 (resized).png
    #15 5 months ago

    OP, is it because their assembly line workers are clamping down too hard on the playfield?

    #16 5 months ago

    Ouch! Yeah on a build like that it’s $1000 min to swap. Plus, why do it; it’ll look the same eventually.
    JJP has the most impressive builds. I hope they get this stuff figured out; I’m sure they will, but their die-hard may loose patience. Is this stuff consistent, or bad batch related?

    #17 5 months ago

    Kind of makes you wonder why they didnt just go the stern route and move the art around the posts. Doesnt necessarily solve the underlying issue, but...

    #18 5 months ago
    Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

    OP, is it because their assembly line workers are clamping down too hard on the playfield?

    I would think they have calibrated tools (i.e. can't over tighten).

    #19 5 months ago

    What a joke. I'm sorry for all you people who put down ten large on shit like this.

    DO NOT BUY NIB PINS!

    #20 5 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    My thought is they already know but don’t like the answer or solution.

    BINGO!

    Totally agree

    #21 5 months ago

    I have a feeling that the damage control is just to expensive so they kind of “hope for the best”.

    My Guess: They wouldn’t be able to take the hit on recalling an entire lot of play fields.

    #22 5 months ago

    Vid keeps saying it and is 100% correct. They can't fix it easily or inexpensively. It's a printer and ink adhesion issue. Rock and a hard place. How quickly can they find a viable alternative to Mirco that can produce their volume at cost points they need as a business. I wish them the best of luck!

    #23 5 months ago

    Correct me if I’m wrong here.

    There is a company making playfields in Chicago. Problem is they are kind of a competitor now.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tour-of-churchill-cabinet-company-on-pinballnews

    #24 5 months ago
    Quoted from Vitty:

    Vid keeps saying it and is 100% correct. They can't fix it easily or inexpensively. It's a printer and ink adhesion issue. Rock and a hard place. How quickly can they find a viable alternative to Mirco that can produce their volume at cost points they need as a business. I wish them the best of luck!

    Doesn’t Mirco make playfields for lots of other games over the last few years that don’t have this problem? I wonder what has changed

    10
    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    My thought is they already know but don’t like the answer or solution. Whatever it is I can only imagine must be too tough or expensive to overcome and they would rather continue on this path.

    If that’s truly the issue, the only way to stop the problem is not to buy these games.

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    If that’s truly the issue, the only way to stop the problem is not to buy these games.

    Correct. Full stop.

    #27 5 months ago

    The best scenario at this point is for JJP to stop production, fix the issue (at least remove artwork around all posts), and then provide owners of affected games new updated unpopulated playfields (yeah, should be populated but they won't do that).

    14
    #28 5 months ago

    It's because you have billionaire Abess and his trust fund son running the company. Neither care because they are billionaires. I am tired of the ole "they are so passionate about pinball and only want good". Bullshit. If they were that passionate they would put their money down and fix the issue. I sound like a broken record on this forum talking about these guys but no one else sees them as the issue. They have all the money in the world to fix it yet they wont. Why? Because they do not care! And never will.

    #29 5 months ago
    Quoted from Mudflaps:

    If that’s truly the issue, the only way to stop the problem is not to buy these games.

    People have been saying this for years. They swear they will never buy NIB again and then a game comes out that they want and they buy it, get angry at the quality, and start the cycle over again. Maybe the reason JJP doesn't do anything is because they know these are empty threats.

    #30 5 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    at least remove artwork around all posts

    I have seen this picture in one playfield issue thread.
    I do believe that a 1/16 inch deep cavity at posts would be a real improvement.

    Screenshot_20210524-202234_Viber (resized).jpg
    #31 5 months ago
    Quoted from Vitty:

    ... They can't fix it easily or inexpensively.

    except - Spooky, Stern, American, CGC are using methods that seem to be working

    -1
    #32 5 months ago
    Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

    It's because you have billionaire Abess and his trust fund son running the company. Neither care because they are billionaires.

    I am as concerned about PF quality as anyone, but not sure that statement is fair just based on their net worth

    #33 5 months ago
    Quoted from smalltownguy2:

    What a joke. I'm sorry for all you people who put down ten large on shit like this.
    DO NOT BUY NIB PINS!

    I am waiting to see the Mandolorian playfields. I like sitting on the side and buying used.

    #34 5 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    I am as concerned about PF quality as anyone, but not sure that statement is fair just based on their net worth

    Do you think its fair when Bret Abess goes on podcasts smug as can be saying how they are going to make the best highest quality pinball machines ever but yet wont fix your $12,500 pinball machine when its falling apart? Yes maybe my statement is not fair or wrong but I have problem with Billionaires and people with too much money that shit on the rest of us. If it was a concern to them they would fix it. They have not. It is not a concern to them. When your pinball machine is falling apart they are still on their yachts and sleeping in their penthouses. Stop defending these people.

    #35 5 months ago

    You need to add the option for people with perfect play fields after 100+ plays just out of curiosity

    #36 5 months ago
    Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

    Do you think its fair when Bret Abess goes on podcasts smug as can be saying how they are going to make the best highest quality pinball machines ever but yet wont fix your $12,500 pinball machine when its falling apart? Yes maybe my statement is not fair or wrong but I have problem with Billionaires and people with too much money that shit on the rest of us. If it was a concern to them they would fix it. They have not. It is not a concern to them. When your pinball machine is falling apart they are still on their yachts and sleeping in their penthouses. Stop defending these people.

    Not defending them, just not sure their net worth is relevant to the conversation nor the reason issues are not being addressed

    #37 5 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    except - Spooky, Stern, American, CGC are using methods that seem to be working

    I agree with you on Spooky, American and CGC. Not STERN! They have playfield issues as well.

    #38 5 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    I agree with you on Spooky, American and CGC. Not STERN! They have playfield issues as well.

    Stern seems to have fixed and addressed the issues

    #39 5 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Not defending them, just not sure their net worth is relevant to the conversation nor the reason issues are not being addressed

    I understand. And my apologies for implying you were defending them. It was more of a blanket statement of the community not really addressing the real issue. But net worth is something to be discussed and has a play in this. Other companies have solved and fixed the issue. Spooky fixed their issue because they are not rich. They are hard working individuals whos lives depend on the product they sell. If they continue to sell a crap product they will eventually go out of business thus making their lives a bit more complicated and hard. JJP on the other hand has the resources to fix the issue. The Abess Family are multi Billionaires. Look them up. I am not saying they are responsible to put all of their money into JJP. What I am saying is they have not and will not fix the issue because their livelihoods are not on the line. JJP can close its doors tomorrow and the Abess family will still be eating their fish eggs and laughing and shitting on us peasants. They do not care. Wealth has everything to do with it in this case. They can fix it but because it does not effect their lives personally they do not care to address it. I may be wrong but what else is it?

    13
    #40 5 months ago

    Can someone explain me why in the land of the brave and free, no one has started a class action lawsuit yet?

    #41 5 months ago

    Crazy man. That playfield is so far from acceptable. I feel like I need to take a closer look at my wonka now.

    #42 5 months ago

    This is even WORSE than POTC

    JJP should have grown some balls years ago, sue Mirco and use the proceeds to establish their own playfield production in house

    #43 5 months ago
    Quoted from ViperVS:

    Can someone explain me why in the land of the brave and free, no one has started a class action lawsuit yet?

    Because it would be pointless. As someone else pointed out everybody will end up with a $60 Jjp credit in 3 years if it succeeds.

    #44 5 months ago
    Quoted from ViperVS:

    Can someone explain me why in the land of the brave and free, no one has started a class action lawsuit yet?

    The only people who win in a Class Action suit are the lawyers.

    Best/worst case scencario: JJP pays millions in settlement. They go under. We all get $50.

    #45 5 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    I agree with you on Spooky, American and CGC. Not STERN! They have playfield issues as well.

    Spooky had a bad batch of TNA playfields, but I think they corrected during the TNA run. I’m not sure how they resolved it for the people that had an issue.

    #46 5 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Stern seems to have fixed and addressed the issues

    I would bet 75 cents that isn't totally true (75 cents because that is the value of 3 quarters stacked up, and if you don't get this joke, you might not understand Stern current playfieild issues.)

    #47 5 months ago
    Quoted from extraballingtmc:

    This is some bs right here. Months ago the word was the ce was going to have different play fields that were better, even the newest run of les supposed to be better. Sadly it appears they are worse than ever.
    Unfortunately with people paying 20-35k for faulty pirates and 20k for gnrce jjp has little to no motivation to do anything about it. What happens when a group of investors runs a pinball company

    I think the problem is, if you listened to Mirco he changed his clearcoat process. Blaming the clearcoat was and for some reason continues to be what many people blame for this problem, but I think its the digital printing. People who know way more than me and I have a lot of respect for seem to think the same thing. So Mirco could be using the worlds strongest and most durable clearcoat but that just is not going to matter when the material the clearcoat is bonded to (the printed ink) is lifting off the wood. Early Jurassic parks were having this problem and so were past spooky games. They removed the art around the posts and the problem is mostly solved.

    Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

    OP, is it because their assembly line workers are clamping down too hard on the playfield?

    I see this tossed around a lot too. If OP's washer picture is to be believed they certainly are going WAAAY harder than they should. However, I still don't believe this is the main issue. It is, however, AN issue. It would absolutely blow my mind to learn that JJP is not using tools calibrated to only go to certain peak torque levels when they are assembling these games, but then again they are continuing to do a lot of things that blow my mind, so I guess I shouldn't be shocked.

    #48 5 months ago
    Quoted from ViperVS:

    Can someone explain me why in the land of the brave and free, no one has started a class action lawsuit yet?

    Because gents like this have better attorneys then you will ever and will bleed you out.

    Brett (resized).jpg
    #49 5 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    If I purchased a Ferrari and it had a scratch, do you think they would send me a bottle of touch up paint?

    This is an apt analogy. This isn't some Stern Pro.

    #50 5 months ago

    What would be the basis of a lawsuit? Pin functions perfectly as a pinball machine and it's tough to claim loss of value with so many pins flipping over msrp. Sell the pin and don't buy jjp until they can prove these issues are 100% fixed.

    There are 865 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 18.

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