Quoted from High_End_Pins:

The same people that put a bunch of washers under plastics?
Even worse what happens when you install a bunch of plastic protectors.
I understand the dynamics of raising things like wireform ramps making the distance of the ball drop further but the minuscule amount these washers would raise anything would have zero effect on gameplay .
Whoever is coming up with these “fixes” are doing themselves and their customers more harm than good.
It’s like “Oh the ink is lifting around that 1/2 inch washer. I have the solution here’s a 3/4 incher on the house”
Two months later “We are sorry to hear that the ink has lifted around that 3/4 inch washer. Here is a 1 inch washer. “
Before you know it the entire playfield is going to be covered in wrinkles and big washers.

Quoted from Morgoth00:

What does a company do with a buyback pin?
-Strip it for parts?
-Sell on their scratch N' dent page?
-Fix it for resale?
If the answer is the latter, why don't they just offer that option and send out refurbished PF's to unhappy customers? Just like your cell phone warranty, they don't give you a new one. They give you someone else's headache that they refurbished.

Quoted from twoplays25c:

In the 70s and beyond, car manufacturers' got away with crap like these current playfield issues, and then Mr. Toyota and Mr. Honda showed up and the game was never the same. Oopsie!
Laugh at them now, but someday ... some company in another country with better QC processes will fix these issues, IF the US manufacturers continue NOT to.

Quoted from MikeS:

What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Please show me that law....

Quoted from MikeS:

It sucks

If it's an ink adhesion issue does re-clearing even help?

Quoted from DerGoetz:

You got that wrong.
You receive the replacement playfield and then flip all that crap to a Derek or a Levi.
Done. Now someone elses problem, just as JJP think and do themselves.

Quoted from RobT:

Bader vs. Mirco?

Quoted from High_End_Pins:

All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
All the back and forth is worthless.
These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
It’s 70 years old!!
Stop it!!!
Fix it!!!
If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Thanks. I am not the grand poobah of pinball or anything but honestly I never paid any attention to these threads because I have little to no interest on the subject matter.
Once I studied it a bit I realized what level of horse shit this is or at least would be to me knowing what I do.
I use Mirco playfields and this doesn’t happen but I have provisions. I am individually fine tuning each playfield finish and hand assembling maybe 25 games a year at a similar price point. Older stuff not the latest thing.
I don’t know exactly where the fault lies. There are lots of variables.
What I do know is very simple. Post are a part of pinball playfields and have been for a very long time.The ball does enough damage on its own. If the stationary post can destroy their designated areas in a matter of months I am scared to death for the rest of the playfield in due time.
I want it fixed because it just what’s right and expected given a history of normal wear and tear as well as product expectations.

Quoted from JodyG:

Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently. [quoted image]

Quoted from Chuckwebster:

I second that- every time i've had a problem with Stern they always stood behind the product. Judging by the last stern game i got they seem to be listening and trying to improve the quality. clear is great and hardly any dimples on my LZ after 1k plays.

Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Good to hear you guys have been taken care of, but it probably depends on how many games you buy and how bad your playfield is. A friend of mine had really bad pooling on nearly every post in his Iron Maiden and was told to find the nearest lake and jump into it. The posts are actually partially enveloped by the clearcoat and removing the posts without damage may be impossible, but this was determined to be 'acceptable'.

Quoted from mbwalker:

Barry had taken care of me 2-3 times when he was at AP w/my Houdini, and I always enjoyed talking to him at a few shows I attended - always personable and was an asset to AP.
I'd hate to be in his shoes now, can't imagine the crap he has to put up with daily. And I no doubt his hands are tied w/respect to the PF issues. A 'no win' for him.

Quoted from fosaisu:

For people that had their GnR playfield claims denied, were you discussing the "Bumper to Post" warranty with your distributor and JJP, or this new, more limited warranty? And has anyone considered which version of the warranty would apply if you made your deposit before the warranty terms were revised? Or if you took delivery of your machine before the warranty terms were revised?

Quoted from GTO:

Seriously. How hard is it to find the people who made the diamond plated playfields for Bally-Williams or even playfields for Zaccaria? I mean, can’t they just consult those people on their process? Can’t be that hard.

Quoted from Chetrico:

Well, so much for that. I did exactly what JJP recommended by placing washers over the affected areas. Last night we put in a solid 2 to 3 hours on the machine. I just checked to see how it was looking and a little to my surprise, the damage has already extended past the 3/4 inch washers. I was trying to be optimistic but damn, looks like it is only going to get worse.

Quoted from zaphX:

Or small washer (the original) over carbon fiber.[quoted image]

Quoted from calprog:

Orders are being canceled daily!! Sad. Cool machine! Poor quality

Quoted from Shapeshifter:

So, going forward if we buy a JJP, there is zero warranty on the playfield?
Open it up and it's a lemon, and it's a 'oh well, win some, lose some' scenario?
I don't care what titles come out in the future, I won't be buying with zero warranty.

Quoted from zaphX:

We is me and my wife. Asshole.

Quoted from Sako-TRG:

Not sure you realise this but you are coming across as JJP #1 crusader. If you want hired by Jack, submit your resume like everyone else, instead of fighting their corner every opportunity. It really is becoming painful to watch..... lol.

Quoted from nicoy3k:

That’s probably true if you torque down a huge metal washer but the petg washers have just enough flex to put slightly more pressure toward the center while still protecting edges and dissipating the overall force. FYI the cliffy washers are great but I’ve had issues with them sliding around in areas near pops because their center hole is so large.

Quoted from nicoy3k:

Yes I placed them under the posts in the bumper area of Star Trek and they both shifted to one end of the post vs staying centered. The plastic posts are slightly larger than the washer hole so the vibration of the post shifted the washers. Area was cleaned thoroughly before I applied them. That said they work well around the metal posts in GnR to protect around the post since the diameter of the hole is the same as the metal posts.

Quoted from JodyG:

I know two people who have received populated playfields in the last year from Stern. The bar is high though. The defect must affect gameplay. This means a warped playfield or a sunken insert.

Quoted from ImNotNorm:

Here's a template
[quoted image]

Quoted from TigerLaw:

That’s awesome! I never noticed that either. Yes, that is a well placed tribute.

Quoted from Palmer:

Maybe that star in Mirco’s logo is supposed to represent playfield artwork peeling up around posts.

Quoted from thechakapakuni:

In the TBL thread, DP says Mircos claims are that JJP are the issue. JJP is over tightening the posts. While this isn’t a direct statement of quality, it’s a denial they are the problem. Who really knows
[quoted image]