(Topic ID: 293976)

GNRCE Playfield issues!

By Skyemont

4 months ago


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  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Palmer
  • Topic is favorited by 47 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “GNRCE Playfield issues!”

    • No issues 35 votes
      32%
    • A few issues but I can deal with it 14 votes
      13%
    • I need a new playfield 61 votes
      55%

    (110 votes)

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    #351 4 months ago
    Quoted from twoplays25c:

    In the 70s and beyond, car manufacturers' got away with crap like these current playfield issues, and then Mr. Toyota and Mr. Honda showed up and the game was never the same. Oopsie!
    Laugh at them now, but someday ... some company in another country with better QC processes will fix these issues, IF the US manufacturers continue NOT to.

    Chinese Homepin is not better. See: Thunderbirds.

    Japan is not into pinball, so scratch that. Maybe a Europe manufacturer resurgence, but I doubt it.

    #352 4 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    They legally can't sell it as new, so it has to be refurbished and sold as such or destroyed.
    It makes the fact that they aren't offering an at-cost spare playfield even crazier. It literally cost them NOTHING but some administration. And if throughput is the issue, offer an IOU for when production cools down and they have some playfields to spare. This idiotic new stance is a self-inflicted wound that's completely unnecessary.

    What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

    #353 4 months ago

    The problem probably isn't worse than Wonka.

    The amount of mulitballs / add-a-balls has to accelerate the damage.

    I wonder what average balls per game on GNR is compared to a "typical" modern era pin?

    #354 4 months ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Since they all assume to have an issue can you point me to a single FS add that is less then list price? And yes I would still buy one at a premium.

    Not all CE's are having issues - we don't know if the ones that sold above MSRP were showing damage and/or the buyer was aware of what to look for

    #355 4 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    They legally can't sell it as new, so it has to be refurbished and sold as such or destroyed.

    Please show me that law....

    #356 4 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Chinese Homepin is not better. See: Thunderbirds.
    Japan is not into pinball, so scratch that. Maybe a Europe manufacturer resurgence, but I doubt it.

    Some day, some way, some company.

    I spent 21 years working with 2 global construction equipment manufacturers, and almost 6 years working for a manufacturers trade association. I spent another 9 years working for a company that did the parts and operators manuals for 30 OEMs. ALL the manufacturers were impacted by QC issues which resulted in offerings provided from elsewhere - and many of their customers leaving to buy the new offerings. Mostly the decision was NOT based on price or features, but for better quality and attention to details.

    #357 4 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

    You keep playing it. Having some pooling/chipping doesn't render a game useless. The extra playfield is for peace of mind.

    #358 4 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

    With a blank playfield at least you can give it years to cure and harden, lessening the chance of failure again. Then you can play the one in your machine into the ground with peace of mind.

    #359 4 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    Just got a call from my distributor. Barry emailed her. Here are my options:
    1. The will buy my CE back at retail cost
    2. Nothing
    No new playfields are to be sent out. I love the pin is why I got a CE. JJP you make it very hard to support u in this industry.

    I think JJP are just making it hard and quite probably bluffing. It is a very small gamble for them as I am sure they will onsell the game through a distro if they did buy it back. It has been thought out quite well.. If you are going to complain, they punnish you by buying your game back. A manufacturer making games is playing games also.

    Did you ask them if you could buy a playfield?

    10
    #360 4 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Please show me that law....

    It falls under the fraud statute of Federal Truth in Advertising law. You are fraudulently selling a not-new returned or refurbished item as new. That's fraud.

    #361 4 months ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Everybody is claiming the value is higher than retail, even with the chipping and bubbling playfield
    Just Curious - which one of you who don't already have a CE are willing to buy one with a defective PF for $15 grand .... not me
    I would rather pay more for a defect free one or buy an LE down the line if they can fix this issue with certainty

    Passed on 2 of my POTCCE spots for this very reason. Had to have the game as a huge Eric fan however, so bought a nice LE w spare playfield. It's got washers which are migrating, but except for the occasional "ball under the sling" it's acceptable.

    Spoke w Chris some time back, and will pursue the pf swap w his genious at some point....way too busy to be dragging these machines around currently.

    No is my solid answer...suspect I'm alone in this thought however.

    10
    #362 4 months ago

    If anything this thread has convinced me to stop buying NIB JJPs... I have a NIB Wonka CE with pooling but no current damage to the artwork. Then I have a NIB POTC CE that I got a new PF (unpopulated) for because of this issue apparently before JJP decided completely screwing over their customers was good business. It's pretty freaking clear that JJP isn't interested in fixing this or they'd have done it by now. It's appalling how they're handling it now as well and that was the final nail for me. Either send the game back for a retail refund or... F u? What? The? Fudge...??? So if someone actually wants to play the game they're forced to accept absolutely abhorrent quality "or else"?

    For the prices they're charging, words cannot describe how absolutely pathetic this is. I don't know what happened to them but this complete customer disregard started with the Wonka CE topper debacle and has just snowballed from there. JJP clearly doesn't care about its customers, only its bottom line. I hope their next title completely flops, in epic fashion.

    Jeff

    #363 4 months ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    Drop a deuce in the cab and send it back.

    put it in the backbox and its a pinball upper decker! LOL

    Quoted from jandrea95:

    The buyback is a shit offer though. I actually took them up on the buyback offer and was told the following:
    On Feb 19, 2021, at 4:21 PM, Barry Engler <[email protected]jerseyjackpinball.com> wrote:
    
    I do not handle that, but what I do know is.
    The boxing material will be sent out.
    After the game is boxed a pickup is scheduled.
    Once we receive the machine, we check it out.
    A refund will then be issued.
    This whole process can take 2-6 weeks depending on all the variables.
    Thanks,
    Barry
    I officially accepted the buyback on 2-25-21, have not heard jack shit since. The game is now long gone, but they do not know that, and they cant be bothered to follow up.

    I emailed Barry asking if I return the game to my distro for a refund. will see if we get reply.

    #364 4 months ago
    Quoted from ShrimpPimp:

    We were lucky enough to secure a G&R CE with a serial number in the 90's range. We took delivery the last week of February and as of today have nearly 2,000 games played. It is one of our favorite games to play, and it probably helps that my wife and I are big G&R fans.
    I've followed this thread and the other G&R threads to learn about tweaks and issues. I removed my glass this morning and went over the playfield with a flash light. The ONLY blemish I could find regarding pooling, lifting or chipping was around this post to the left of the scoop. I already have the 3/4" clear washers mentioned above and I'm hoping that installing one will prevent further chipping as the arrows point out.
    I guess I should feel lucky that there is not more damage with so many hours on the game. Maybe it's possible that some of the pooling issues and worse seen by others won't creep up in my machine?
    My wife and I are fairly new to the hobby but we play every night and enjoy our games. Just like the hot rodded 48' Chevy in my profile pic that gets driven everywhere. We're both nearly 50 and while I love having nice shiny toys, I know that with use you will get some minor dings and bump ups here and there. I have friends with hot rods they never drive and guys who have guns which are "safe queens" and never get shot. These friends who never really utilize or enjoy their possessions puzzle me. That would be similar to me telling friends not to play my G&R because "I wanna keep total plays low for possible future re-sale value." For me unless I hate the game, if I buy a pin and love it I will probably keep it forever and put it in my will.
    So if there are documented issues with the manufacturing process as pointed out it seems the entire playfield could be compromised. However in MY case is it possible that what you see in the photo is normal wear and tear from 2,000 plays? Could it be similar to dings in your paint from driving your car normally?
    I'm hoping it's attributed to normal wear and tear because I would hate to think that over the next couple years every high impact post will start to look like this one. People have a right to be frustrated and upset for the amount of money we spend on these games. I totally get it. In my case though I will play the game until the legs fall off because the overall experience for me exceeds the worry of a couple clear disks on the playfield that you don't see with the light shows going full blast.
    I've been a lurker for months but just wanted to post my SN range and pics so the OP can cross reference his experiences with one more.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    sorry to say that you are going to get issues all over the playfield.

    #365 4 months ago
    Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

    OP, is it because their assembly line workers are clamping down too hard on the playfield?

    I bet they are not torquing it down by hand. Had new tires put on my mini van and needed a breaker bar to get the lugs off because the mechanic used a 1/2” impact gun to put them on. I am a strong guy and I had trouble getting them off when I went to do my brakes.

    #366 4 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    What good does an at-cost spare playfield do if it's made by Mirco? Or even a populated playfield if the problem isn't fixed? What happens when that playfield fails in your game? Selling or getting a refund seem like the only ways you can guarantee that you won't have a defective game.

    Send it to HEP and have him work his Voodoo on it.

    #367 4 months ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    I don’t think you’re wrong and you know much more about this than I ever will but... i haven’t seen damage expand past larger washers whether they’ve been applied before or after damage. The only areas affected are those with no washers or smaller washers on them due to pooling and over torquing. I just think that if the smaller =better theory was correct we’d be seeing damage around larger washers rather than the opposite...

    sadly on my TNA the chipping has gone past the washers.

    #368 4 months ago

    If I had a CE-
    Ask to buy another CE playfield- send it to HEP for clear coating.. let it cure for a couple of years and then do playfield swap and sell it if you are bored of it for $15K or more!

    #369 4 months ago

    It sucks

    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    Send it to HEP and have him work his Voodoo on it.

    If it's an ink adhesion issue does re-clearing even help?

    #370 4 months ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    Yeah the Spooky playfields really have me scratching my head because, even though I remember a couple of hiccups during TNA (that’s what she said?), their playfields are sooo much better than every other I’ve had. My ACNC and R&M have like 4 dimples combined after hundreds of play each.

    spooky had some issues but resolved them and worked with customers to resolve those issues including me.

    Neil.

    #371 4 months ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    You know, there are people that buy games to hold them for years to come, rather than just a bunch of flippers. Those people probably don't like the risk of playfields being compromised with the risk of future issues showing up by simply using their machine.

    This. For the people shouting to just sell the defective game and move on... what if they want to keep the title and just not have it be defective? Not everyone buys and sells titles right and left, or flips for profit. For me, when I take a chance and buy a NIB game, it's not a decision I take lightly. It needs to be a game I really connect with for whatever reason. Sometimes I make a bad call, get bored with the game quickly, and move it on. Other times, I keep the game for many years, or indefinitely. A defective game is a problem either way, whether because of reduced value or reduced enjoyment.

    I advocate for the consumers on these issues because I am one, and I want to buy more new games without worrying about this issue. I'm honestly surprised at how many people don't care if their games look nice, or at least claim to not care. Isn't that why many of us wax, maintain, and restore older games? Who doesn't want their pins, especially new/expensive titles, to look nice for years to come? I have always had a strong appreciation for JJP and their ambition to create pins more akin to the classic B/W games. Stern had mostly become complacent and stale by the point where JJP showed up on the scene. For me, it's painful to watch this tarnish their legacy while Jack himself is left as a bench warmer. I sincerely hope they can right the ship.

    #372 4 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    With a blank playfield at least you can give it years to cure and harden, lessening the chance of failure again. Then you can play the one in your machine into the ground with peace of mind.

    You got that wrong.

    You receive the replacement playfield and then flip all that crap to a Derek or a Levi.
    Done. Now someone elses problem, just as JJP think and do themselves.

    #373 4 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    It sucks

    If it's an ink adhesion issue does re-clearing even help?

    The problem is no one knows EXACTLY what the problem is. IF it's an issue of the solvents from the spray ink getting trapped by the clear that's applied before the ink has settled and causing bad adhesion, that MIGHT be fixed by more cure time. And if that's not the issue, then sanding down and re-clearing with someone who knows their stuff should take care of the pooling.

    Bottom line, a spare playfield gives options. That's a good thing.

    #374 4 months ago
    Quoted from DerGoetz:

    You got that wrong.
    You receive the replacement playfield and then flip all that crap to a Derek or a Levi.
    Done. Now someone elses problem, just as JJP think and do themselves.

    There aren't enough Derek or Levis for that scenario.

    #375 4 months ago

    What shocks the shit out of me is that neither JJP or Stern has thrown a plane ticket and $10,000 at HEP to come fix their issues.

    I can see it now. HEP strolls in, spends 20 minutes there and says “Here’s your issue and this is how you fix it. I’ll be at the bar across the street if you need me”.

    #376 4 months ago

    If anyone has a game and wants to do a pf swap. Ill do the swap for 1K.

    #377 4 months ago
    Quoted from Betelgeuse:

    This. For the people shouting to just sell the defective game and move on... what if they want to keep the title and just not have it be defective? Not everyone buys and sells titles right and left, or flips for profit. For me, when I take a chance and buy a NIB game, it's not a decision I take lightly. It needs to be a game I really connect with for whatever reason. Sometimes I make a bad call, get bored with the game quickly, and move it on. Other times, I keep the game for many years, or indefinitely. A defective game is a problem either way, whether because of reduced value or reduced enjoyment.
    I advocate for the consumers on these issues because I am one, and I want to buy more new games without worrying about this issue. And I do worry. I'm honestly surprised at how many people don't care if their games look nice, or at least claim to not care. Isn't that why many of us wax, maintain, and restore older games? Who doesn't want their pins, especially new/expensive titles, to look nice for years to come? I have always had a strong appreciation for JJP and their ambition to create pins more akin to the classic B/W games. Stern had mostly become complacent and stale by the point where JJP showed up on the scene. For me, it's painful to watch this tarnish their legacy while Jack himself is left as a bench warmer. I sincerely hope they can right the ship.

    I ordered this game to keep it. But sadly I have to contemplate flipping it NIB if this isn’t resolved by the time it ships. I’m willing to deal with standard issues (tweaking stuff, stuff rattling loose, plastic damage, wear & tear). This issue is way too excessive to ignore. What is very bizarre is JJP is silent on this. It’s almost like they have too many orders and are glad to peel off a few rather than fix it. I was rooting for them but now they’re rivaling Deeproot for worst communication. This is the moment when Pinball jumped the shark

    #378 4 months ago

    I bought a used wonka le with lots of play field issues years ago ... I used a heat gun to flatten out the areas and put some rubber washers on from lowes and have played it a ton since and it hasn't gotten any worse . I'll probably add the clear titan ones at some point but it's been a great pin and tons of fun. I recommend you do the same thing. If not I'd b willing to purchase it and do the same thing I did to my wonka . Just let me know.... but it needs to be enjoyed so hopefully u decide to add washers or sell... no sense in having something u cant enjoy bc of the issues. Good luck with whatever you decide to do..

    #379 4 months ago

    Buy 90s DMD games. Impressive builds and built to last. That’s your safe harbor.

    Huge fan of JJP builds and design, though. I’d sell the company, get off the hook for this stuff, learn and rebuild. I just don’t see it economically viable to address all of these issues. What are manufacturing and product standards that need to upheld? Could this company be held to the fire someway? What percentage of games have issues? How fast do these issues manifest themselves?

    #380 4 months ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    spooky had some issues but resolved them and worked with customers to resolve those issues including me.
    Neil.

    A sign of good leadership would be to hire PR firm to help work through, come out with statement, and work towards a resolution. Accept responsibility and move the ball forward.

    Any absence of this is not a good sign.

    #381 4 months ago

    I have an LE and I really like it. That being said, I will be extremely pissed if my playfield begins to chip or separate. I swore off nib JJP ever since WOZ, but this draw of this game and the involvement of Slash brought me back.

    They did make a great game. For some undisclosed reason, they can’t seem to get the PF issue solved and they are suffering from a lack of communication and transparency. In a vacuum of information, the worst will be assumed.

    #382 4 months ago
    20210526_173425 (resized).jpg
    #383 4 months ago
    Quoted from Chetrico:

    [quoted image]

    Like a good wine??

    -1
    #384 4 months ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    Drop a deuce in the cab and send it back.

    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    Thank God I've been dragging my feet on putting a deposit down on an LE.
    At this point, let JJP go out of business and let American Pinball fill the void for the high end market.
    Remember when Jack bragged that Cliffy's won't be needed for his playfields.......

    Check out this player’s collection?
    Not a JJP fan!

    #385 4 months ago
    Quoted from Chetrico:

    [quoted image]

    Did you buy that?

    #386 4 months ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Did you buy that?

    Yes...Thought that I might need it some day. The cost came down to my distributor and I and he took care of me the best he could.

    #387 4 months ago

    As I posted earlier, I'm not holding my breath that JJP will do the right thing to take care of us.

    #388 4 months ago
    Quoted from Chetrico:

    As I posted earlier, I'm not holding my breath that JJP will do the right thing to take care of us.

    Thanks very much for sharing that, very much appreciated. I think we may be going down the same route.

    35
    #389 4 months ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    Send it to HEP and have him work his Voodoo on it.

    Thanks for the confidence. People have been asking me about this since Wonka.
    I don’t have any time nor desire to inherit another company’s problem into my life anymore than is totally necessary to conduct my own affairs.
    I am truly a man of leisure at least mentally and I value that lifestyle far above anything else.

    14
    #390 4 months ago

    Man, this thread makes me and my $1k deposit very sad.

    #391 4 months ago

    Any issues on the SE? Mine is fine.
    Only seems to be LE and CE

    #392 4 months ago
    Quoted from greeneye:

    Any issues on the SE? Mine is fine.
    Only seems to be LE and CE

    What is the date stamped on your playfield?

    #393 4 months ago
    Quoted from greeneye:

    Any issues on the SE? Mine is fine.
    Only seems to be LE and CE

    Nope it’s all of them. I know a guy who has a early SE and it’s jacked up big time. I contacted Mirco today to see if I could buy a CE playfield and the answer was no. What the F is going on here. JJP is draining the fun out of collecting pins. They got me back into pinball and now they are exiting me back out. Thanks JJP!!!

    #394 4 months ago

    I thought this picture needed to included in this thread. It’s under the apron on my CE.

    1E75DE10-B9AF-4F70-BBFB-ED537429558B (resized).jpeg
    #395 4 months ago

    I do not own a GNR but I do own a WoZRR. The playfield is perfect without a flaw in sight. Not even hardly any dimpling at all! It’s a 2014 build so one of the oldest ones out there.

    What has JJP done different from making a tough as nails playfield with WoZ to making shitty playfields after that? Doesn’t make sense to me.

    I did own a Maiden premium that had pooling issues which stern sent out a new playfield.

    I like JJP games and am looking forward to another title.... but this is crazy to me that this hasn’t been figured out yet.

    Sorry to all the players who bought a CE. I played an LE (GNR) and enjoyed it. But with all these issues no way am I spending for one now.

    #396 4 months ago
    Quoted from Meri-cah:

    I do not own a GNR but I do own a WoZRR. The playfield is perfect without a flaw in sight. Not even hardly any dimpling at all! It’s a 2014 build so one of the oldest ones out there.
    What has JJP done different from making a tough as nails playfield with WoZ to making shitty playfields after that? Doesn’t make sense to me.

    Bader vs. Mirco?

    #397 4 months ago
    Quoted from fnosm:

    What is the date stamped on your playfield?

    I don’t see a date on the playfield anywhere but manufacture date is feb 2021

    #398 4 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    contacted Mirco today to see if I could buy a CE playfield and the answer was no.

    WTF.

    Have you asked JJP if they will?

    #399 4 months ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    WTF.
    Have you asked JJP if they will?

    I was denied by JJP! I did not ask them to purchase one for me. I think they don’t want to risk sending out playfields because it may end up being the results.

    10
    #400 4 months ago
    mirco2 (resized).PNG
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