(Topic ID: 293976)

GNRCE Playfield issues!

By Skyemont

8 months ago


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  • 865 posts
  • 202 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Palmer
  • Topic is favorited by 44 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “GNRCE Playfield issues!”

    • No issues 35 votes
      32%
    • A few issues but I can deal with it 14 votes
      13%
    • I need a new playfield 61 votes
      55%

    (110 votes)

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    Topic index (key posts)

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    There are 865 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 18.
    #401 7 months ago
    Quoted from romulusx:

    Check out this player’s collection?
    Not a JJP fan!

    WOZ? Didn’t like.
    Hobbit? Didn’t like.
    Dialed In? Didn’t like.
    Pirates? Didn’t like.
    Wonka? Didn’t like.
    Guns & Roses. Me like a lot.

    #402 7 months ago

    This thread combined with my recent root canal requiring a post and crown made me think....

    I know it's a major change but could they install a t-nut on back side in such a way that the posts don't put pressure on playfield? - OR - install a mini-post (TM) and clear playfields AFTER a flat post is installed that allows you to later screw into that so the posts attach only to metal and any extra clear just cracks at the attachment?

    #403 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Stop telling people what to do all the time it’s getting old.

    Stop telling people to stop telling people what to do all the time.

    #404 7 months ago

    Just checked my low plays CE and found this as I looked at each post.

    Looks like I’m now a part of this mess.

    Now I have to read a bunch of threads to get the best repair if possible.

    I can’t believe how long this pin has been sitting off since I got it. Repair after repair. And now a bad playfield.

    I guess I’m a bit lucky that this is the only spot so far and it’s hard to see when playing.

    I did already have washers on order to prevent this but I hadn’t spotted the art lift until now.

    Such a bummer.

    42F1CCCA-726B-489E-AF73-CADD05D8E35A (resized).pngBCEC5D25-431B-4FE1-A871-1CAC5EE0AFCB (resized).png
    #405 7 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    I was denied by JJP! I did not ask them to purchase one for me. I think they don’t want to risk sending out playfields because it may end up being the results.

    exactly the issue. they know the problem is not fixed.

    #406 7 months ago

    I’ll say it again but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the same post is an issue in everyone’s game. I think it happens on that post because it gets very loose and get smashed around by the pops. That post doesn’t have a nut to secure it below the playfield.

    #407 7 months ago
    Quoted from micro:

    Just checked my low plays CE and found this as I looked at each post.
    Looks like I’m now a part of this mess.
    Now I have to read a bunch of threads to get the best repair if possible.
    I can’t believe how long this pin has been sitting off since I got it. Repair after repair. And now a bad playfield.
    I guess I’m a bit lucky that this is the only spot so far and it’s hard to see when playing.
    I did already have washers on order to prevent this but I hadn’t spotted the art lift until now.
    Such a bummer. [quoted image][quoted image]

    Honestly, that’s pretty darn minor. I wouldn’t let that bum you out. Now if you don’t protect it, and it gets worse, then that would be upsetting. And that’s the problem with this whole issue as a whole, these issues are proving to get worse - i.e. chipping. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

    81
    #408 7 months ago

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    13
    #409 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    Playfield post of the year! Well said.

    At this time I'm voting with my wallet. I've asked my distributor to delay my LE order, if this issue isn't fixed within a few months I'll just cancel my order and buy another Stern. Not dealing with this crap at these insane prices.

    #410 7 months ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    Honestly, that’s pretty darn minor. I wouldn’t let that bum you out. Now if you don’t protect it, and it gets worse, then that would be upsetting. And that’s the problem with this whole issue as a whole, these issues are proving to get worse - i.e. chipping. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

    It's a defective product no matter how it's sliced. Granted some examples appear to be worse than others, but they all share one trend - the game is defective.

    #411 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    I’m so glad you’re in this thread!

    C808236D-CA84-4567-987A-9614B2DFCFC3.gif
    #412 7 months ago

    As long as the manufactuer(s) see the community like this:

    pasted_image (resized).png

    We will get treated like this:

    pasted_image (resized).png

    Really that simple.

    #413 7 months ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Bader vs. Mirco?

    Bader was out after the beginning of ECLE as far as I know. Mirco playfields were pretty great until right after Hobbit. I think that's when he got his digital printer "upgrade" but not 100%.

    #414 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    HEP Unchained, Round Deux!

    breaking_the_chains.gif

    The EF Hutton of pinball playfields.

    #415 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    From one of the most respected people in the hobby, what else do you need to hear?
    Thanks, HEP.

    -5
    #416 7 months ago
    Quoted from AliciaC:

    It's a defective product no matter how it's sliced. Granted some examples appear to be worse than others, but they all share one trend - the game is defective.

    He can put a washer over the damage and enjoy his game. Does it suck? Yes. Does JJP need to do something to compensate- at the minimum providing a perfect replacement playfield- Yes. Should he still enjoy his game to the fullest despite some damage around a post? Of course... only games with perfect play fields are playable?lol

    14
    #417 7 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    HEP Unchained.
    [quoted image]
    Round 2! The EF Hutton of pinball playfields.

    Thanks. I am not the grand poobah of pinball or anything but honestly I never paid any attention to these threads because I have little to no interest on the subject matter.
    Once I studied it a bit I realized what level of horse shit this is or at least would be to me knowing what I do.
    I use Mirco playfields and this doesn’t happen but I have provisions. I am individually fine tuning each playfield finish and hand assembling maybe 25 games a year at a similar price point. Older stuff not the latest thing.
    I don’t know exactly where the fault lies. There are lots of variables.
    What I do know is very simple. Post are a part of pinball playfields and have been for a very long time.The ball does enough damage on its own. If the stationary post can destroy their designated areas in a matter of months I am scared to death for the rest of the playfield in due time.
    I want it fixed because it just what’s right and expected given a history of normal wear and tear as well as product expectations.

    #418 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    Someone email this directly to everyone that counts at JJP.

    #419 7 months ago

    My playfield is pooling. I’ve reached out to Hemispheres amusements and JJP. No one has returned my emails yet.

    If any of you that have this problem want to get together and get a lawyer involved, feel free to DM me.

    Obviously I would like an outcome that doesn’t cost me thousands or require a lawyer.

    #420 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    Thanks. I am not the grand poobah of pinball or anything but honestly I never paid any attention to these threads because I have little to no interest on the subject matter.
    Once I studied it a bit I realized what level of horse shit this is or at least would be to me knowing what I do.
    I use Mirco playfields and this doesn’t happen but I have provisions. I am individually fine tuning each playfield finish and hand assembling maybe 25 games a year at a similar price point. Older stuff not the latest thing.
    I don’t know exactly where the fault lies. There are lots of variables.
    What I do know is very simple. Post are a part of pinball playfields and have been for a very long time.The ball does enough damage on its own. If the stationary post can destroy their designated areas in a matter of months I am scared to death for the rest of the playfield in due time.
    I want it fixed because it just what’s right and expected given a history of normal wear and tear as well as product expectations.

    HEP - I posted a couple of pages back about UV printing, and that the UV ink apparently acts like an adhesive, not like solvent based inks that can soak in a little. Do you think using UV ink is the real culprit? One web page (not pinball related) recommended laying down an initial clear coat to improve adhesion. Wonder if Mirco is doing that? Their quality 'test holes' are just clear coat, no ink - sort of misleading, IMHO.

    #421 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    Thanks. I am not the grand poobah of pinball or anything but honestly I never paid any attention to these threads because I have little to no interest on the subject matter.
    Once I studied it a bit I realized what level of horse shit this is or at least would be to me knowing what I do.
    I use Mirco playfields and this doesn’t happen but I have provisions. I am individually fine tuning each playfield finish and hand assembling maybe 25 games a year at a similar price point. Older stuff not the latest thing.
    I don’t know exactly where the fault lies. There are lots of variables.
    What I do know is very simple. Post are a part of pinball playfields and have been for a very long time.The ball does enough damage on its own. If the stationary post can destroy their designated areas in a matter of months I am scared to death for the rest of the playfield in due time.
    I want it fixed because it just what’s right and expected given a history of normal wear and tear as well as product expectations.

    Fact is, you know your stuff and have extensive experience in all areas of pinball assembly because you are deep into the teardown and rebuilding of dozens of pins a year from many eras to a level of perfection the factory rarely, if ever, achieves. And that experience includes clearing playfields and fixing imperfections.

    So your opinion carries a LOT of weight.

    That it also comes with a huge dollop of sincere modesty is charming.

    #422 7 months ago
    Quoted from High_End_Pins:

    All these band aids to overcome and mask a potentially bad product are stupid.
    Make the playfields right!Someone clearly has the art ,ability and equipment .
    Make it happen. Whoever’s job this is. Do it!
    This is just a true summary of the many threads on the subject.
    All the back and forth is worthless.
    These are not normal outcomes or issues you would expect.
    Wear from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dimples from use?Yes I can expect that.
    Dulling overtime with use ?Yes I can expect that
    Ink lifting and peeling off down to the bare wood around simply needed parts like post to build the game within months after said assembly let alone ever ?No this is not acceptable based on history alone.
    I can teardown a woodrail from the 50’s that doesn’t have or show that.
    It’s 70 years old!!
    Stop it!!!
    Fix it!!!
    If this is your job please take it seriously and do it!Its clearly important,not normal and not optional. You will ultimately make your own life easier as well as others.

    Exactly
    Well spoken

    #423 7 months ago
    Quoted from JoeJet:

    I know it's a major change but could they install a t-nut on back side in such a way that the posts don't put pressure on playfield? - OR - install a mini-post (TM) and clear playfields AFTER a flat post is installed that allows you to later screw into that so the posts attach only to metal and any extra clear just cracks at the attachment?

    - OR - they could go back making playfields like they did in the past. My MET (last run), JP, DP, IrMa have zero issues with playfields, and I play a lot.
    Oh and my JJP POTC does not have any pooling to this day either, so it is possible.

    #424 7 months ago

    Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
    This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently.

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #425 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
    This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently. [quoted image]

    That would solve the problem of over-torquing topside parts, but those holes would have to be very precise.

    #426 7 months ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    That would solve the problem of over-torquing topside parts, but those holes would have to be very precise.

    Why pinball manufacturers are still using a press to dimple playfields and then either drill holes by hand on the dimple, or they use a bushing jig and again drill the holes by hand blows my freaking mind. A simple 3 axis CNC mill can be set up to drill all the holes on location quickly, and will never file an OSHA claim for carpal tunnel. You could even have the machine predrill the hole and then use a milling bit to make the hole perfectly on size. One employee could load and run 3 machines at a time. You don't even need top end super rigid CNC mills, since you are machining wood...not slabs of Inconel or Monel. The labor savings will pay for the CNC machines in short order. Pinball manufacturing is painfully stuck in the dark ages, and they don't even try to hide it.

    #427 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
    This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently. [quoted image]

    These types of ideas are worthy for consideration but they are masking the real underlying problem. This could very well eliminate the pooling problem but switch to a chipping problem. These posts all have some movement when the ball hits it and could very likely start chipping around the post. Manufacturers of the playfields need to fix this problem from it's foundation, not re-invent the way posts are installed and adding washers. If the printing process is the weak link, find a primer, find a different ink, try different types of pigments. If Mirco invested in an expensive printer and it's not compatible with the clearcoat, that's his problem to either find a solution or invest in a better system of printing. If the clearcoat isn't hard enough or curing enough, that is their responsibility to find a solution. If your ceiling is leaking you can keep emptying your bucket but the right way is to fix the roof.

    #428 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Pinball manufacturing is painfully stuck in the dark ages, and they don't even try to hide it.

    Let me tell you about the wonders of octo-manufacturing

    In all seriousness, I have an SE arriving in a couple of week, based in Australia and ordered first day. I’m one of the lucky ones as many customers here will have been waiting 12 - 18 months from order till they get their game.

    It’s a bit of a kick in the teeth that what sure be a moment of anticipation counting down the days till your game arrives, now is like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The one upside, is I’m now pretty convinced that my game will have issues. From the number of posts it clear the vast majority of play fields are likely experiencing issues. The only factor is how close people are scrutinising.

    A small blemish is one thing, but like HEP said, what is this really saying about the long term durability of the play fields. What we are seeing is weeks of play, most people are expecting to enjoy the game for years.

    I really thought this might be one of those blown out of proportion threads when I first jumped in, however I think it pretty obvious some serious is going on. I’ve been in other threads where an owner has to post 10 photos in various angles and light before someone agrees maybe there’s a defect. That’s not the case here, come on art work literally peeling off the Playfield is just not on. I run my own company and if my response to every customer issue was, I’ll just buy back your machine, what sort of long term brand or value would I be building. I guess it hasn’t killed them on the last two titles so what’s one more, with shoddy quality control.

    #429 7 months ago
    Quoted from SimonBaird:

    Let me tell you about the wonders of octo-manufacturing
    In all seriousness, I have an SE arriving in a couple of week, based in Australia and ordered first day. I’m one of the lucky ones as many customers here will have been waiting 12 - 18 months from order till they get their game.
    It’s a bit of a kick in the teeth that what sure be a moment of anticipation counting down the days till your game arrives, now is like watching a car wreck in slow motion. The one upside, is I’m now pretty convinced that my game will have issues. From the number of posts it clear the vast majority of play fields are likely experiencing issues. The only factor is how close people are scrutinising.
    A small blemish is one thing, but like HEP said, what is this really saying about the long term durability of the play fields. What we are seeing is weeks of play, most people are expecting to enjoy the game for years.
    I really thought this might be one of those blown out of proportion threads when I first jumped in, however I think it pretty obvious some serious is going on. I’ve been in other threads where an owner has to post 10 photos in various angles and light before someone agrees maybe there’s a defect. That’s not the case here, come on art work literally peeling off the Playfield is just not on. I run my own company and if my response to every customer issue was, I’ll just buy back your machine, what sort of long term brand or value would I be building. I guess it hasn’t killed them on the last two titles so what’s one more, with shoddy quality control.

    stern and JJP have had pooling and chipping around posts for years... people have played, enjoyed, and sold those a games. Let’s not act like this is new and is something that renders your game unplayable or worthless... the difference is that JJP and stern used to send us replacement play fields. But let’s be real, most of the time those playfields sat in the box forever. The bigger problem though is that mirco lied about having fixed the issue and JJP is currently refusing to give replacement play fields. That is pathetic. Hopefully soon they acknowledge the issue and provide replacement play fields to all those affected.

    #430 7 months ago

    So, this QC thing. Wtf is it? Where is the qc point? Are they so cheap that they all they did is take an existing pre drilled hole that was always there and used for something else (securing the support brackets) and re-labeled it as a quality assurance test point? Meaning not only did they not fix the underlying issue, but they didn’t even create a special QC test procedure as they promised.

    C7283D4C-230D-4AF9-8E42-9E9A688D42F5 (resized).jpeg
    #431 7 months ago

    Playfield quality control. Looking good. I was told mine passed the test. I’m serious. I was told that.

    6B1A39A1-869F-4CEE-95F1-DAB42A741182 (resized).jpeg77F178D2-4C20-489D-B8CB-373908C22334 (resized).jpeg
    #432 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
    This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently. [quoted image]

    This is similar to what I was saying as maybe a suggestion for JJP. While I appreciate it doesn't solve the actual problem with ink adhesion it may reduce the chances of your game showing damage in as early as a month. Obviously they would need to test it.

    The problem as I see it is JJP is married to Mirco with either a contract or they purchased all the playfields and what's done can't be undone at this point. Mirco would have to take a million dollar + loss to change thier process and seems like legally that would be hard for JJP to force and would take years meanwhile they have no new playfields if they outlayed the playfield costs already to Mirco.

    Didn't Stern and spooky just shift the art away from the posts? JJP could do that also if they are still getting new playfields from Mirco. Explains also why that test area is worthless if it's only the art adhesion that is the problem.

    As far as the concern that the playfields don't just continue to fall apart I think we mostly know that will not happen as we have years old games as examples. My GOTG has the issue with one post and it's stayed limited to that post.

    Would be great if this was fixed but looks like it will cost too much for the time being and those stuck with this problem and want to keep the game will have to hope that one day truly fixed playfields to be run and available for purchase (I'm not betting they will be any cheaper than at cost) and eventually replace them.

    #433 7 months ago
    Quoted from Skyemont:

    Playfield quality control. Looking good. I was told mine passed the test. I’m serious. I was told that.

    I'm sure it did if they are limiting the testing in the apron area.

    #434 7 months ago

    People need to stop buying these. I am backing out of my LE. Not worth the headache. Unfortunately there are a ton of people locked in at 9500 with non-refundable deposits, so doubtful there will be any short term impact to JJP

    #435 7 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Maybe JJP should consider undermounting that post through a close fitting hole in the PF. Here is what I am thinking-
    This does not fix the crappy clear issue, but its one of the most beat up posts in a game, and would make long term sense to look into doing something differently. [quoted image]

    Even if this idea worked, sometimes theres just simply not room to mount it under the playfield. You might have parts for a light, a mech, another post, ect potentially in the way. You might be able to do it in some areas, but sometimes you just need a post and something else in the same area and the under playfield real estate is just not available.

    #436 7 months ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Even if this idea worked, sometimes theres just simply not room to mount it under the playfield. You might have parts for a light, a mech, another post, ect potentially in the way. You might be able to do it in some areas, but sometimes you just need a post and something else in the same area and the under playfield real estate is just not available.

    I like the idea of rebating a shallow hole in the PF where the posts are. But then all the standard sized posts will all be too short.

    #437 7 months ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I like the idea of rebating a shallow hole in the PF where the posts are. But then all the standard sized posts will all be too short.

    Stick a t-nut in a recessed pocket up top to make it level w/the PF, then secure on the backside w/a nut

    #438 7 months ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Stick a t-nut in a recessed pocket up top to make it level w/the PF, then secure on the backside w/a nut

    That would work

    #439 7 months ago

    I was looking at the images from the TWIP deep dive - looks like you can see the start of some issues in some of the pictures
    Faint ... but looks like a start

    https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/guns-n-roses-pinball-deep-dive-in-depth-overview-of-the-machine-features-rules-and-more/

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    #440 7 months ago
    Quoted from nicoy3k:

    stern and JJP have had pooling and chipping around posts for years... people have played, enjoyed, and sold those a games. Let’s not act like this is new and is something that renders your game unplayable or worthless... the difference is that JJP and stern used to send us replacement play fields. But let’s be real, most of the time those playfields sat in the box forever. The bigger problem though is that mirco lied about having fixed the issue and JJP is currently refusing to give replacement play fields. That is pathetic. Hopefully soon they acknowledge the issue and provide replacement play fields to all those affected.

    agree, but the playfields need to be fully populated swap outs. we have to be real here, how many folks are actually going to do a playfield swap? and how do we know the playfield they send out is a good one that will not have future issues?

    #441 7 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    agree, but the playfields need to be fully populated swap outs. we have to be real here, how many folks are actually going to do a playfield swap? and how do we know the playfield they send out is a good one that will not have future issues?

    Ideally that would be the solution. But I think having a bare replacement playfield is better than nothing (duh, I guess?). We've never seen pooling/chipping evolve into an exponentially worse problem if the problem areas are cared for. You should be able to enjoy your "defective" game for years to come- having the peace of mind that you do have a replacement available if the unthinkable happens is just nice. In the end its really a carrot for your resale, "here I'll take of $200 off the normal asking price and throw in a replacement", I think most buyers would take that deal.

    #442 7 months ago
    Quoted from mbwalker:

    Stick a t-nut in a recessed pocket up top to make it level w/the PF, then secure on the backside w/a nut

    JJP needs to implement this simple fix into all of their future playfields and the problem will be solved.

    #443 7 months ago
    Quoted from Supermans:

    JJP needs to implement this simple fix into all of their future playfields and the problem will be solved.

    It’s ugly but it works for sure. Early 2000s sterns (LOTR comes to mind) did this.

    #444 7 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    agree, but the playfields need to be fully populated swap outs. we have to be real here, how many folks are actually going to do a playfield swap? and how do we know the playfield they send out is a good one that will not have future issues?

    Not going to happen. I was told hell to the NO!

    #445 7 months ago

    For the gentleman who was told he could send it in for a buyback/refund - I know you could sell it on the market, but part of me thinks it would be appropriate to send it back just so they can look at it in person. Hopefully they will see just exactly what kind of "QC" is happening and fix things over there.

    #446 7 months ago
    Quoted from gjm7777:

    For the gentleman who was told he could send it in for a buyback/refund - I know you could sell it on the market, but part of me thinks it would be appropriate to send it back just so they can look at it in person. Hopefully they will see just exactly what kind of "QC" is happening and fix things over there.

    Or they could just send him a populated playfield and ask him to send back his existing playfield.. then they can put whoever they want on the one with problems.

    10
    #447 7 months ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    Or they could just send him a populated playfield and ask him to send back his existing playfield.. then they can put whoever they want on the one with problems.

    Unless they change their processes, a replacement playfield is going to shit the bed also. Not sure why everyone thinks the replacement playfields will be defect free. They'll still be garbage.

    #448 7 months ago
    Quoted from Supermans:

    JJP needs to implement this simple fix into all of their future playfields and the problem will be solved.

    So you have some proof that fixing this problem at a post that shows up after a few hundred plays will Not effect the Rest of the playfield after say a year or more?? I would like to see that report.

    #449 7 months ago

    is JJP refusing to send you replacement upper playfields as well?

    #450 7 months ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    Unless they change their processes, a replacement playfield is going to shit the bed also. Not sure why everyone thinks the replacement playfields will be defect free. They'll still be garbage.

    Just imaging how much that would compound your frustration to do ALL of that replacement work and have the same result! Yikes.

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