Well.... there goes and hour and a half I'll never get back.

This seemed like an emergency "gotta put something out there to quell the rumors" Hail Mary. Granted, hiring Lloyd is a great Pinside PR move but it just seemed like this stream was yet another bad decision by AP.

I think we found David Fix's second burner account.

I doubt JJP has hauled in profits, so how hard is it to believe AP has the same miracle pinball funding.

Yeah. An in house board that maybe 1 or 2 machines will use before they probably go out of business on their next original theme. And you buy one...and your board dies. Where do you pick one up?

There was 0 reason for them to spend all that effort designing a new board. I know that's what the parent company does, but when you're selling 300 pins a year it doesn't make sense Just use the fast board.

Agree there are positives but AP didn't need to have a two hour stream to say the few things a one page or less press release could have accomplished and saved everyone a bunch of time.

The boards could be spun as a big announcement for stakeholders sure but regular consumers? Still rubs me the wrong way.

I like that they want to do weekly streaming to help market and promote their games. I don't like being teased that there will be a big news update though.

It's cool there are new service people. The board thing is whatever. It makes zero difference to most people, unless they're passing the savings on to the end user...which doesn't sound like they are

LTG coming to company is a positive and shows they’re trying to reach the community and hush a lot of the complaints in support area.

They said they’re not going anywhere (I know this can be full of shit but they’re saying they are not. Have to take it at face value for now).

The new board set, while I agree is scary when you don’t know what will happen to company, most board sets now run off a pc. Meaning that with the right information, other people can make replacement boards that work if that was needed in the future. As long as there was access to the code (which if they go out of business, hopefully will be shared as unencrypted. With these being unlicensed, it’s easier to provide).

I would have expected them to announce something bigger (like a game), but they didn’t and that’s ok. They made an effort to do a public stream (with tons of people being negative during the stream) and said they’re going to continue doing this every Wednesday. One thing I’ve seen people bitch about the most is them being quiet. So now they’re doing something public every week and people are bitching about that.

Myself, I hope they come out with a great theme and continue making games

They really needed a moderator in their twitch chat. It was bedlam in there. And what's the point of live streaming if you're not going to engage with the audience?

Not trying to be negative. I feel like that is constructive feedback

I don’t disagree, the part I watched they were seeing the camera was out of focus and trying to figure it out (I don’t think they ever did). I agree with moderator and better setup.

720p stream with a dirty lens- It was almost satire.

To be honest I had no idea they didn't use their own boards before. (Also, didn't care.) I thought the whole point of being a subsidiary of Aimtron was to showcase Aimtron's boardmaking chops?

Also nobody was forced to watch the stream. All the negative Nancy’s who are angry because they didn’t get what they wanted to hear weren’t owed anything and could’ve got the recap the next day. Some people seem to have it out for AP and while I agree there are have been tons of missteps it really doesn’t matter. AP will AP. If you don’t like it you’re free to go elsewhere. Otherwise enjoy the train wreck for what it is and be pleasantly surprised when something good happens.

I'm pretty sure they've always used their own lamp boards, power distribution, and some other minor boards. It's mainly the main P3-ROC board (which has a ton of features that aren't utilized) and the associated power driver and switch boards that were still externally sourced.

It should bring down the cost of the boards a lot. Then again, they spent "hundreds of thousands of dollars" developing the replacement...so probably not going to see any discounts for customers.

I'm also curious, did they say you could mix and match stuff? If I have a P3-ROC Houdini and I need to replace a power driver board, would I be able to use their new one? Or would I need to order one from Multimorphic for $100

While that was a total joke, clearly successful given now many people here have fallen for it.
“I’ll take Fix at his word” — the guy has done nothing but lie since day one, how can you possible believe a word he says? Do you also believe they sold out of GTF LEs? If you believe what they are shoveling, I know a bridge for sale.

Ltg clearly a PR move, but good for him and AP customers whom have been struggling to get support. But a single hire does not mean all is well.

Board system, spent a ton of money, which at their sales rate will take years to recover, so not like they will lowering their prices. It creates risk and concern, even more so with the concerns about longevity, as previously there was little concern about boards since it was Proc. Seems like this was a wrong priority when nobody wants their games.

I was expecting we would get at least a peek or tease of the next game or that we would see Dennis on stream and he would drop hints on his next game.

There was nothing shared of substance, and right now I’ll believe the rumors more than Fix.

From what I understand the new boardset is not backwards compatible but Lloyd can correct me if I'm wrong

I took it as their games codes will be compatible with either boards. I took that as either all of P3roc or off their boards, not mix and match. I could be wrong though

It's fine if they don't mix and match. If they are basically creating a whole new system, I hope it reduces wiring complexity.

You'd think they would want to lift the playfield and show off their new board if that was such a major news item...

My frustration with AP is that FFS they could do so much better. The stream quality was amateur hour. Their PR is a joke. Radio silence from support is unsettling. Fix is hyperbolic to the point of losing trust. Odd decisions seem to be made perpetually. And more... but you have to admit given all the flaws they still manage to put out fun and quality machines. It’s not how Stern does it, and that’s ok. AP is not Stern. And I don’t think they want to be. There’s something charming and refreshing about a company that can take risks and be themselves. We get games that would never otherwise be made. And maybe they shouldn’t have been made, but that’s not our call. So let’s just enjoy it for what it is. Deep down I think everyone’s level of pissiness comes from the fact that we see AP’s potential and want them to do better. So people are frustrated when AP doesn’t do things the way they think they should or how they’ve come to expect from other companies. If that’s the case don’t be mad at AP, be patient and constructive.

Although my expectations were higher, I believe overall the stream was a net positive for AP. It is critical they make reliable games and if something does happen, the proper support needs to be there. After hearing horror stories with GTF, I would be hesitant to purchase a game. I do feel better knowing someone like Lloyd will be there to provide support in the future. Not the most thrilling announcements but I would say still quite important.

Fix said this is backwards compatible in the stream. That was the design intent, something that had backwards compatibility and can move them forward.

I think it’s probably
Backwards compatible in the sense that it will run on their old games, but don’t believe this means you can mix and match old /new boards

Ferret has said the new boards are swappable with old boards... even use the same mounting points, etc. Looks like they have done the abstraction to make the boards unit swappable.

Individual boards or the entire boards set?. If a proc died can you just drop in new AP version or do you need to replace the most or all of the boards? . One thing to make it so you can build old titles with new boards vs existing owners being able to swap a single board to an old game.

So why is the new board incompatible with GTF if it's backwards compatible?

It suggests the new one isn't as powerful as the old one. I hope that's not the case. It should be multiple times faster.

All that being said: I'm all for a company making their own parts. That's very good (if it's good stuff).
If it's faster, better and more cost effective it's a smart move..... it isn't however a selling point to players: we shouldn't have to care about this stuff.

Seems like AP got another infusion of cash from Aimtron.... good for them. I hope they use it more wisely this time around.
Hire more coders and art people AP!!! There's what, six or seven people over there?

.

I guess I stand corrected, thanks boys. I guess I was confused because I was under the assumption they didn't work for GTF for whatever reason

Edit- I see somebody else mentioned the GTF thing, glad I'm not quite as crazy as I thought I was going...

I asked that question too.. and he suggested it could be piecemeal. Truth is in the pudding... but sounds like they've aimed to make it a board swap, not just a platform swap.

That would help. It got ugly fast which is why they probably started to ignore it.

LTG : )

Yeah, I agree, I wouldn’t have responded to all the trolls especially when the biggest troll came into chat. Everyone starting feeding off of him because being an Ahole is cool

No, you can’t piecemeal replace boards, can’t mix and match P-ROC boards and American Pinball boards on the same machine.

I love folks actually upset at the stream as if they are owed something. The whole thing is just innocent PR, they plan to start streaming regularly, they had some company info, basically dispelling rumors and confirming a new game is coming soon. But you got people ranting on YouTube and here as if they were done some kind of injustice.

I don't think they were wrong to feel that way..... I feel that way.
What everyone wants to see, is something really big, really positive, and something that shows a turnaround.
When they come out and say "Incredible news!!!"...... what is a PLAYER suppose to think? Really simple: they want what they're hoping for and nothing else.
100% understandable, and if AP is blind to that it makes them look even worse.
Why didn't they show us the board last night? If that's going to be the whole reason to be there..... at least show it to us!!!

Sadly no amount of David Fix is going to work for me anymore. My wife and I find him to be very 'cringe' at this point and there is no going back. For the life of me I don't understand how he is qualified to run a pinball company of any size. The way he dragged out revealing Lloyd's 'initials' had our eyes rolling out of our skulls. I have great respect for Lloyd going back to RGP usenet days...I certainly hope he enjoys and benefits from his relationship with AP...but I fear he's associating with the wrong people. Of course he's here / will probably read this / is a grown adult who knows what he's doing and even AP can't ruin his reputation with me so.... Tally Ho? I guess?

The board thing is odd to me ..did they just reverse engineer the P ROC and don't need to revise their code? Should I be upset for Gerry?

On a side note (if AP is listening)......

A really good and positive thing would be to hit on anything which was talked about in the past and bring it forward to completion (and some of these may not have been "real").

1. Going to standard cabs for old games (like they have done with GTF DE). Was this ever real?
2. The reworked Houdini which isn't so tight (Todd and others had talked about this a couple years ago). Was this real?
3. The Houdini ramp kit (was this real?)
4. The ramp/loop kit for HW (Fix talked about this years ago - was it a real thing?). Not that HW has any interest, it should be bottom of the list (IMO).
5. How about some animated/mechanical toppers? (I don't think they every talked about this - but it makes sense).
6. Everyone wants alternative art for Oct...... why isn't this a thing? That's an inexpensive change.
7. No rework of onscreen art/animation for Houdini, Oct, LOV, etc.? It's needed and not that expensive.

Just seems like they could get a whole lot of mileage out of some no so expensive tweeks..... if you need to sell old games: You aren't going to sell them just because they're there....... they need something new to make them more appealing.

Their first one too. They'll get better.

I remember when Jesse and I did the first "Talk Pinball" podcast. It did not go well. We learned, the next five were fun.

LTG : )

it's a subtly hilarious troll move. was kind of hoping something like that might go down.

congrats @ltg!

I'd sleep with the devil if it enabled me to help people with their pinball machines better.

And I don't think American Pinball is the wrong people. I can't fault them for trying to make things better, for past customers and future customers.

I'm glad this time it came together and I can be part of AP going forward.

LTG : )

So not backwards compatible then?

It’s backward compatible in the sense that you can use the new boards in old games, but will need to swap out all the old boards with the new boards.

Or that’s how I am understanding it

LTG they couldn’t have picked a better guy, looking forward to see what more AP comes out with along with you on board.

In addition to LTG coming on, Nirmal confirming continued support for AP on stream and the new board are positive. Very interested to see if the new board can compete with Stern's ultra low duty cycle timings to manage flipper heat in hold. They made it from the ground up, so it SHOULD, but interested to see if it does.

But that streaming rig. Oof.

Idk why people crap on hot wheels so much. I think the colors and art are great. It’s a fun fast game. Throw in some pin stadiums and wow. I personally would rather have a Hot Wheels over a Jaws pro but that’s just me

Yeah...I get some people expect loop-de-loops and such, but Hot Wheels is a very good game overall. Simple to understand rules, great RGB light effects, good sense of humor, shoots great, etc. My only complaint is the overuse of the air wrench sound effect (wrrr!)

My only complaint is the clashing animations.
The stop motion is so superb and those portions were awesome! But then they mixed in some less-than-stellar 3D models with subpar textures, which makes the shift between them very jarring.

I guess it depends on your interpretation then but that does not equal backwards compatible to me. I still think a new board set makes sense for them and is a good thing though

Octomodz interpretation is correct. Call that whatever you like... not trying to mislead anyone with word games.

The hyenas were out in full force? No surprise there.