Since buying my Houdini I've been obsessed with American Pinball. I've heard buzz that they will announce their next game this month. Anybody else heard this? And I guess it's between Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood, Valkyries and Poker Run. Any thoughts on which one it will be?

Wow! That's extremely disappointing. I hope the podcast is wrong. I'm looking to buy one more awesome game for my collection next year. I was thinking it would be Sherlock Holmes or Robin Hood from American, but if they spend the year making a ticket redemption game I guess I'll look elsewhere for my next game. Thanks for posting that update.

Ok. I feel much better now. Thank you, Dan. American is rapidly becoming my favorite pinball creator and I hated to think they were abandoning pinball for redemption games...like Williams did for slot machines.

Where did this pic come from? Flying Dutchman as the next American game? Interesting.

I hope it's not Hot Wheels. There's no way I'd pony up thousands of dollars for a Hot Wheels pin. I have room for one more game in my gameroom. I intended it to be Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood or even Valkyries. But if AP goes with Hot Wheels and none of the others, my dollars are going to Jersey Jack or possibly Deeproot...maybe Stern if they can come up with something cool and not as cheaply made as some of their recent releases. But I'll wait until AP's big reveal at Texas. Fingers crossed its a cool one. Maybe I'll buy an older one like Whitewater. That game has piqued my interest of late.

I agree. They just get better and better. And I feel that they’re using quality parts rather than the cheap stuff Stern uses. I’d like to see them do Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes but they’ll probably go with another licensed theme...just so long as they keep original and unique.

API, if you’re reading this...I’m all in on a Sherlock Holmes. I think it could be a BIG seller. Consider all the Holmes related TV shows and movies over the last decade. It’s a very popular title...especially with no license fee.

I agree. AP games are top quality and sturdily built. I want to play a Hot Wheels, but the theme isn’t one I’d be interested in buying. I’ve got a limited amount of space available and am hoping the next AP game is of a theme that interests me. I own a Houdini and would love to get another AP game if the theme turns me on.

Thanks for letting me know. Someone at my favorite arcade told me about that one. I’m sure I’ll make a trip out there in the near future. BTW, I’m trying to convince the owner of said arcade to put a Hot Wheels in his line-up. I think he’s leaning toward it. Much love to AP. You guys are awesome.

I hope so. I'm all in on that game from AP. It'd look great sitting beside my Houdini.

I agree, though I only have Houdini. But I love it. I’m hoping for a Sherlock Holmes.

I think that would make sense only if Hotwheels sold well. I don’t think it has. Does anyone have information on how Hotwheels has been selling?

Id love to see a Bigfoot vs Yeti pin. A new Bermuda Triangle would also be cool. I hope someone from AP reads these comments. They’re a great company. I hope they get a hit soon so they can keep going and keep innovating. The hobby needs AP.

So with AP’s new hirings, particularly Dennis Nordman, does anyone still think Sherlock Holmes will be AP’s next game?

Well, whatever it is I know it will be a high quality build. I have a wide variety on manufacturers in my collection and AP is definitely the best quality. I’m anxious to see what their next game will be. Hopefully it will be a theme I like.

I'm holding out hopes for the rumored titles of Sherlock Holmes or an AP partnership with Riot Pinball to mass produce Legends of Valhalla. I'm in on either one of those...definitely!!!

I agree that they need something with broad appeal. You may be right. It may not be Sherlock. Without knowing their business model or how many units they've sold of their games, I can still speculate that AP needs a mass-appeal game to stay competitive. It seems like all the other major manufacturers are carving out places for themselves in the marketplace: Stern the big boy with licenses and name recognition, JJP with high-end, higher priced games, Spooky with the edgy, boutique themes, Chicago Gaming with the remakes (primarily). Where does that leave AP?

I think we’re all in agreement here. The original themes of the 80s and 90s Bally/Williams era were great and such better themes than the licenses of today. But original themes don’t sell anywhere near as well as licenses with name recognition. If AP could come up with a big selling original theme maybe that could be their corner of the market. They already have the quality build thing down. There must be properties out there that are public domain while still having mass market appeal/name recognition. What about Bermuda Triangle or a cool, modern take on Bigfoot?

Me too. I love AP quality and customer service. I’m hoping the next one is a theme I love.

I know! I own a Houdini. The more I play it the more I love it. I’m really hoping AP hits it big...at least big enough to stay around for a while. The hobby needs a company like them. I feel like Stern and JJP are just getting cheaper and cheaper with their build quality. We spend a lot of money on these games. Don’t build them with cheap materials. So far AP has been quality all the way.

I don’t really have much basis for saying this because I’m no insider, but I keep thinking the next AP game will be either Sherlock Holmes or Legends of Valhalla, which I heard is a deal AP made with Riot Pinball. Anyone have any other thoughts on that?

Sweet!!!

I’d be stoked for a Sherlock Holmes from AP. I hope you’re right.

Well, I’d be happy with LOV also. Beyond that, it’d be a wait and see situation.

I think it will be a surprise only if it isn't Sherlock Holmes.

Yeah, I don't see Sonic. But one of the strongest arguments against it being Sherlock is (in my opinion) that they already did Houdini, which is of a similar time period, genre, etc. It seems Sherlock would be more a sequel to Houdini than something new and original on it's own. But don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a Sherlock pin and would definitely buy one.

Well I’m no pinball designer, but I would think it could work like a Who Dunnit only better.

I heard that a few days ago. I think Balcer is now a "gun for hire". I don't know about Busch. And I, too, wonder how that will affect API's next game. I don't think Balcer is supposed to be involved with it. I'll bet Nordman will play a big part in it though.

I hope someone from AP is reading this thread because I want them to know that I'M OUT on anything made by JJP due to the horrendous build quality of their GNR and their poor customer service. I'm also on the fence with Stern because of their shoddily made games of the past few years...theme wise, Stern has been pretty cool, but I feel their games have not had good build quality. I've never bought from CGC (not big on remakes). So that leaves AP and Spooky, both of whom I'm very impressed with. I think AP has the edge on build quality, and Spooky has the edge on theme selection. But I think both AP and Spooky have great customer service. When I'm being asked to shell out multiple thousands of dollars for a new game build quality and customer service are at the top of my priority list. As I'm in the process of selling my spot for a GNR LE, I have money and space to devote to a new game. I'm hoping AP excites me with their next offering. Sherlock or LOV will get an instant order from me.

What does HVAC stand for? It's not Houdini because it's Houdini Master of Illusion.

Oh, ha!

I totally agree. Once again, I'm hoping someone at AP is reading all this.

I’ve had my Houdini for two years. It gets a lot of plays and aside from some slight dimpling that seems standard for modern games I’ve had ZERO issues with it. AP makes a good quality game and they have great customer service, unlike one very prominent company I could mention!!!

I love AP but as a theme hip hop would be as interesting to me as Hotwheels, which is to say I’m not interested. But it would be good for the hobby to bring more theme variety, so a hip hop pin might be good for others and, depending on the artist, might sell very well.

I must’ve gotten the Bader playfield on my initial run Houdini because I’ve had no pooling or chipping issues with it.

If AP’s next is Sherlock or LOV it’s a definite buy from me. I’m out on anything hip hop. I recognize the popularity of the theme and that it would probably do very well on location. But I’m 52, and rock is my music. I had a spot (at $9500) for a GNR but all the playfield issues and JJP’s DESPICABLE customer service compelled me to sell my spot. I’ll never buy JJP again so it’s all in on AP...give me a theme I’m excited about!!!!

There are already enough music pins out there. Also enough superhero and Star Wars games. One of the many charms (for me) of AP is their uniqueness. I love that they are doing out-of-the-mainstream pins. I know those correlate to big sales, but variety drives this hobby in the long run. I hope AP continues being original. Bring on Sherlock! Bring on Legends of Valhalla! Please!

My thoughts exactly! We’re anxious.

That is awesome news!

In the very least we’ll know by August because AP reserved a spot at Southern Fried Gaming for their 4th game.

Thanks for letting us know. I was not aware of the correction…and, damn, what a disappointment! I’m excited about Spooky’s reveal today, but only as an observer. I’m not into Halloween enough to want to buy the game. I’m anxious to play it though. So all my interest in an upcoming purchase rests with AP. Anxious to see what they deliver and when they do it.

Well, they clearly won’t tell us before they’re ready to. What I’m doing (and my advice to you) is holding off buying anything until AP makes their announcement. I have to think it will be coming within the next month or two. If their 4th game is a theme I love I’ll jump on it. If it’s not then I’ll start looking elsewhere. Anyway, that’s my plan.

That was some good listening. Very informative. Looks like we’ll get two new AP releases in 2021. That’s exciting…especially as they’re committed to maintaining their high build quality and reasonable prices. What a great company!!!!

I think it’s LOV and Sherlock. If so, my bank account is in serious trouble because those are both themes I love.

Yes, but for how long do they have it? My understanding is that they acquired the rights at the same time they acquired The Jetsons, which was probably 5 or more years ago. I'm sure there's a time limit on how long they have to make a game. I wouldn't be surprised if they let the license lapse after Jetsons failed to sell very well. Therefore, the Scooby-doo license might be available now.

Hopefully. And LOV in AP's hands would be a dream machine for me.

I'm getting really excited about this. I hope the rumors are true. Help us, AP. You're our only hope (had to be a Star Wars reference because I don't know any Viking ones).

I listened to the podcast and heard him say that too, but I think 2 games in 2021 might be a bit unrealistic. If they release them too close to one another they might cannibalize each other in sales. Stern can put out a game every 4 months or so but that’s because they have a huge following/distribution network. I think it takes AP a long time to build up sales momentum for each release so just when it’s building for game #4 releasing game #5 would only hurt it. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong. I’d like to see AP put out as many games as possible because I love the company. But I’d also like to see them maximize their sales on each release to ensure they’ll be around for a long time to come.

I agree. If they’re anywhere close to being ready to release game 4 they should start teasing it. Spooky is masterful at the tease game. AP should learn a few things from them in that area. With JJP imploding in the customer service area, pissing off customers left and right, I’ve seen a lot of chatter about customers wanting quality builds…and AP has been mentioned a lot about being a quality build company. I would think AP would want to capitalize on that and at least start teasing their next release.

Not me. I’m all in on a LOV!

My thoughts exactly. Spooky is on a roll right now, but JJP is struggling. Customers who normally would look first at JJP are no longer doing so due to all their recent problems. And with CGC not yet releasing their next game I would think this is the time for AP.

I know! I was thinking the same thing. I thought for sure we’d hear something from AP in August. Now I don’t know what to think.

That seems likely. But we thought they’d have game 4 ready in August. It’s taking a long time either way.

I was thinking the same thing. Admittedly, Godzilla looks awesome. The price increase…not so awesome. I’ve been holding out for the next AP game. I hope it’s a great pin and well priced. If so, I’m in!!!

And JJP's build quality and customer support keep going DOWN! As we've all been saying on this thread, some of what makes AP stand out is their build quality and customer support. I believe both are so much better than the other manufacturers, except maybe Spooky. If they can keep their price point reasonable - compared to the unreasonable prices demanded by Stern, JJP and possibly CGC (waiting to see what they'll want for Cactus Canyon) - then AP can really start grabbing the market share. That's my hope anyway. But it all boils down to how captivating their next title is. As interesting and fun as Hotwheels is to play, it didn't exactly set the pinball world on fire. Maybe game #4 will.

Since we’re throwing out dream themes, I’ll put in mine:
Jaws
Scooby-Doo
The Rocky films (maybe done like Champion Pub)
Ozzy
Bermuda Triangle
And I’d love to see a Bigfoot vs Yeti pin (wishful thinking, I know)

Only if they can do it without being tied to JPOP

Yup. I’d love a Sherlock Holmes pin, but I prefer LOV more. Both would be fantastic!

If done properly, I'd say a Jack the Ripper pin would be too dark for AP. That would be something Spooky would be better suited for. But Van Helsing...yeah, I could see AP doing that one. It'd definitely be cool.

That would be awesome. I don't see it happening, but I'd be all in if they did.

Not that we didn't already know...and take it for what it's worth...but Kaneda just "confirmed" that the next AP game is LOV. He claims to have pictures and a list of game credits for those who worked on the the game. He read them off. I didn't recognize most of the names except for Josh Kugler and Michael Grant.

Legends of Valhalla. It was done by Riot Pinball and picked up for mass production by AP.

I can’t make it to Expo, but I’m looking forward to the updates and pictures from those of you who’ll be there.

You won’t be disappointed with Houdini. I love mine. But all indication is that the next AP game is Legends of Valhalla. Maybe Sherlock will be down the road. I hope it is.

My distro just heard from AP that the original 300 deluxe models are SOLD OUT, but they’re going to add 200 more. I put in my order. Can’t wait to get this game!!!!

Yes! I’m very excited about it. I hope my distro doesn’t have a problem getting me one. I have a feeling the next 200 deluxe models will sell out quickly too. That’s a great testament to all your hard work.

I understand why people are upset over AP going from 300 to 500 LEs. But I think that’s the perspective of someone who wants to flip it either sooner or eventually. I don’t have that perspective. I’ve been excited about this game for a long time. I intend to buy it, enjoy it and hold onto it for a very long time. As much as I enjoy seeing what my games are selling for I don’t buy them to sell them. I buy them to play them extensively and make them an addition to my home. That’s one of the reasons I have absolutely no problem with AP realizing they underestimated demand for this game and added 200 to their LE output. I think they have an incredible game here and they want to meet demand for it. They could have handled it a bit differently, but I don’t think it’s a big deal at all. For me, I’m focusing on the excitement of this game, anticipating getting one and treating it like the TOY it is intended to be. I say we give AP a break and just celebrate the fact that they and Riot have created something awesome!

I just locked in my order! Very excited. Awesome job Riot and I'm so glad to see that AP has a hit on their hands. This hobby needs the kind of quality craftsmanship and originality AP brings. Here's to bright days ahead for AP!

I agree. I just seem to be getting more and more impressed by AP. I have an LOV on order and I’ve never played or even seen the game in anything but pictures and (many) videos. That shows what kind of faith I have in AP, also how much I love this theme. I think AP has a bright future ahead and God knows we need them in this hobby when we see how little Stern and JJP care about their customers.

Damn! All the buzz over CGC’s Cactus Canyon Remake has stolen the thunder from AP’s Valhalla! I hope AP is still on track to sell out of Deluxe models and sell even more standard models.

I placed my order with Shane at Maine Home Recreation, who claimed to have the largest allotment of LOVs. He said he was allotted 60 games and I was about in the middle of the list. I see his add is still up so that makes me think he hasn’t sold the rest yet. Does anyone know how this works? I can’t imagine distributors like Shane have to actually buy all those games if they don’t presell them. I wonder if they have some sort of lease arrangement with manufacturers. Also, what kind of discount do distributors get when they sell NIBs to us at MSRP? Obviously they have to be making something.

Wow! For someone like Shane that would be a lot of money for him the shell out if he doesn’t presell them.

That’s very interesting. Thank you for clarifying it for me.

Yeah. My wife and I talked about that as well, but there seems to be so much involved in doing it (contacts, display/warehouse space, promotions, game repairs), but the biggest obstacle would be the money needed just to get started. It’d be different if it worked like car dealerships where they didn’t have to buy the games outright. But if they have to buy the games that aren’t pre-sold, that would be a tough one. It seems to me that being a pinball distributor is a tough and risky way to make a living.

Just a thought, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were waiting to release the Classic price when they were ready to start making the Classic games. Maybe they don't want people who committed to a Deluxe to back out with the intention of buying a lower priced Classic. That may not hurt AP's bottom line because I believe all the Deluxe models have been ordered by distributors. But it could hurt their distributors who'd find themselves with Deluxe games now unsold. Again, that's just a thought. I could be wrong.

Awesome!

Be sure to give us a report of what you think of it…and pictures, if possible.

Oh that sounds awesome. I wish I was there to play both side by side. What a great idea!

I wish I could report how the berserker mode has been working out for me, but I haven’t got my game yet or heard anything about when I will. It’s okay. I understand with all the shipping and supply issues, but I am very anxious to get it. Im sure it will be awesome!

So my question is…once all the LOVs have been made and delivered does anyone think AP’s next game will be Sherlock Holmes and what’s the likelihood that Dennis Nordman will be on it?

it doesn’t hurt to speculate. Maybe someone heard something. It certainly beats spreading a bunch of negativity all over Pinside. And, lest we forget, the title of this thread is “The Next American Pinball”…kinda lends itself to speculation.

What about AP’s competition to mass produce the next great home brew? Obviously it wouldn’t be the next game to come off their lines after LOV, but I’m wondering if it’s an IP would they pony up the money to get the license or would they only award a contract to an original/non-licensed game. That would certainly suck for those awesome home brews made from IPs.

I’m excited about Oursler joining AP. He has tremendous experience and he created some truly classic games. I’m less excited about Engler because wasn’t he in charge of the service department at JJP when they flat-out abused their customers during the whole GNR playfield fiasco?

If that’s true, Lloyd, it’s a huge strike against Engler.

Do you mean AP?

Yup! That’s my fear too. I’m out from ever buying another JJP game. I’m a big AP fan and I truly hope Engler doesn’t hurt AP. One of the reasons I like them so much is because of their customer service. If Engler turns AP service into JJP service they’ll lose me the way JJP lost me.

You’re probably right. An employee has to do what the higher-ups order, so the buck ultimately stops with JJP’s upper management. And since Lloyd amended his statement and said Engler was not responsible for his ouster I guess we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Here’s to hoping his second tenure at AP makes us forget all about his time at JJP.

I'm not stirring up drama...at least not deliberately. I had a GNR LE on order directly from JJP and put down a deposit when the price was still $9500. But when all the shit started going down with the playfields, horrendous treatment of customers, price increases, etc. I sold my spot (for what I paid, no price gouging from me). In following JJP closely during that fiasco I kept coming across people with game issues complaining about the way Engler (specifically) treated them. That is why I wrote what I wrote. But I have amended my thoughts and comments when I saw how Lloyd endorses him and when I saw that he had the balls to post a comment here himself. I realize and accept that at JJP he was a company man doing what the company higher-ups told him to do. Therefore, he is not at fault and not (to use your words) tainted goods. I'm legitimately excited about what is coming from AP with all these new hires and the direction the company appears to be headed. And BTW I'm anxiously awaiting my LOV. It will go great beside my Houdini. Happy to have you back, Barry Engler. The future at AP is bright.

Yup. A lot of waiting around.

That’s VERY sad, and a terrible loss for the pinball community. RIP Barry.

Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

I completely agree! Why are CGC games selling so well? Yes, it’s build quality. But it’s also an interest in the classic, non-licensed themes of the Bally/Williams era. Many of us are tired of the music and superhero themes. Bring on the original themes!!!

Damn! That’s a big deal. I wonder why and who AP will get to fill his shoes.

I’d love to see a Scooby-Doo pin, but I think it’s more in Spooky’s wheelhouse. AP should do a Sherlock pin. It would be a great compliment to Houdini. They’d look great side by side in my game room.

Yup. I feel the same way. Although the rumored Yukon Yeti (sequel to White Water) by Nordman has me intrigued.

Yukon Yeti it is then.

If AP is continuing to make their older games as well as LOV, does this mean they’ll have a third line running simultaneously to make the Fall release game? That’s a lot of lines running. I didn’t think they had that kind of capacity.