(Topic ID: 253582)

The Next American Pinball

By Charlemagne1987

4 years ago


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  • 4,664 posts
  • 453 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by TreyBo69
  • Topic is favorited by 155 Pinsiders

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#92 4 years ago

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#105 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Does that mean they are paying someone else to use this name

Or it could mean they've trademarked it.

4 years later
#3675 3 months ago
Quoted from Octomodz:

A lot of parts are sold at PBL - Not all would be hard to find.

The main thing that is unique in american pinball is their lighting boards... and of course any game specific mechanics and plastics.

#3678 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I think theme was definitely a big part of it. You can't tell me if this game was themed as Futurama that it wouldn't have sold better.

Theme is all about getting buyers off the couch... know what also does? Fun games.

The problem with GTF was the horrible launch put them in such a hole they never could recover from. Their emphasis on all the wrong things just amplified the potential negativity and never gave any of the positive elements a chance to even be heard.

They totally fumbled the launch, never made a good effort to recover until it was far too late... and combined that with their inability to actually get things done threw a cloud of doubt over the whole thing. Death spiral.

Contrast this with Labryinth... an idea interesting enough to get people curious... and they are winning people over with their EXECUTION. The only execution at API looks to be the EXECUTIONER.

#3691 3 months ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

I highly doubt spooky is in a position to purchase, plus from the outside looking in they get alot of online complaining about the mechanical build quality of their games. They are probably just trying to keep themselves afloat, it cant be easy for such a small company, although at least they’re producing titles.

On top of that... they are a hometown business and want people there. What would buying a facility and staff based in Chicago get them? They already have their relationship with Pinballlife - which gets them 100x fold what buying an assembly company in a location they don't want.

#3692 3 months ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

Titanic was all by design. JP Morgan got the Federal Reserve Bank when Guggenheim, Strauss, and Astor perished. Was American Pinball’s downfall engineered to be a tax write off?

Know what's better than a tax write-off? Actual money. Tax-writeoffs are just a percentage of real money.

Running the business for the expenses is one thing... running it into the ground to claim a write-off vs selling it for more money doesn't make sense.

#3706 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

What a shame.. how could they just run AP into the ground with such speed?

It seems fast... but when you look back it really does all the way back to the pandemic with the unsupported launch of hot wheels and then Fix's stupid wild goose chases since.

LOV and it's launch is probably the only good thing in the time since... the creative and executive oversight since then has just been a complete disaster.

#3743 89 days ago
Quoted from Merendino:

I'm an idiot but I can't comprehend why they didn't simply make/offer one build model for GTF and then have the tank treads and such be an add-on kit. Why go the multi tier route and stretch yourself thin by going all in? When I saw the MSRP on the signature edition I was speechless.

Because you can't get as much of a uplift in price if you offer everything a la carte where people nit pick each price. Plus it was trying to be sold as exclusive and limited quantities.

#3744 89 days ago
Quoted from mdeslaur:

GTF may be a good game, but I just can't get past the awful video footage. They wanted to make it retro and campy, but they only managed to make it look cheap with bad acting. There's a fine line between the two, and they didn't succeed. It's cringe-worthy. Having to look at the 3d printed toys while I'm trying to ignore the video doesn't make me want to put money down on the game.

They can't tell the difference between something that looks good, and something that doesn't.

is that based on your local hands on time playing the game? Because the online presentation of the game is pretty much the absolute worst way they could present the info. Live in the game it plays well.

#3799 88 days ago
Quoted from onemilemore:

Pitch it as a way to keep pinball affordable instead of trying to roll out a premium product, recognizing that there are people who will buy - including ops

Ops don't make money based on how much something costs - they make money based on how much something EARNS. A cheaper pinball game that doesn't earn as good as an avg pinball game is not any more attractive.

Price only becomes an issue when the game costs so much more, but doesn't earn more than a cheaper game. GTF wasn't radically more expensive, nor did it earn radically less than other games.

#3831 86 days ago
Quoted from PinStalker:

How did Fix come to be the head of AP?

This is the part that is illogical and it seems it's a mix of sweet talk, lack of oversight, and a mix of incompetence.

Quoted from PinStalker:

From what I understand, AP was created to give some family members (of Aimtron's owner) jobs.

Not give jobs - but to showcase their products/abilities. You build widgets... API is a happy intersection of showing your widgets in use while also being a new growth potential using your existing competencies.

#3837 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

Parents will spend $$$ on it too. It’s a blend of nostalgia, creativity, bonding time, and wholesome play. The licensing of themes within Lego is awesome too. So not just original characters but popular franchises from across the board are available.

'are available'? You don't get to license Star Wars in Lego in a pinball machine just because Lego did a star wars toyset

That's actually the hard part with Lego.. all it's most popular themes are themselves IP from other companies. So you gotta deal with Lego AND those other folks.

Doubt many would be interested in Lego City Pinball or Lego Friends

#3842 86 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The benefit to Lego is that they don't use any actor likenesses, which should help to some degree.

Except the Lego Movie mentioned... showcases key voice performers.

You still can't throw the Harry Potter name around.. even in minifig form on your own.

I think it's a cool kids theme - it just isn't likely to sell 1k NIB home pins.

#3843 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

It’s ok do “The Lego Movie” and everything is awesome.
[quoted image]

Lego Movie without Wil Arnett Batman = weak sauce.

#3845 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballderdash:

There are international conventions, video games, movies, cartoons, tv shows, clothing, not to mention the product itself all based on this “cheap product”. It’s a worldwide brand. Students learn to code and engineer with it. Plus the patent on the locking system is up so a perfect time for Lego to pump their image for brand recognition.

FYI - I have over 585 individual lego sets.. over 500 of which are still NIB and for investing due to the hotness of Lego. I also goto Brickfair, etc. I know it's presence

I also know where the bulk of the pinball market is.... with the heavy reliance on home buyers it makes it tough for pinball.

#3975 84 days ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

From what I understand the new boardset is not backwards compatible but Lloyd can correct me if I'm wrong

Ferret has said the new boards are swappable with old boards... even use the same mounting points, etc. Looks like they have done the abstraction to make the boards unit swappable.

#3980 84 days ago
Quoted from spoke:

Individual boards or the entire boards set?. If a proc died can you just drop in new AP version or do you need to replace the most or all of the boards? . One thing to make it so you can build old titles with new boards vs existing owners being able to swap a single board to an old game.

I asked that question too.. and he suggested it could be piecemeal. Truth is in the pudding... but sounds like they've aimed to make it a board swap, not just a platform swap.

1 month later
#4215 51 days ago
Quoted from danarchy:

[quoted image]

So did Fix fire you or did you get let go before then?

#4311 47 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Calling it royalties is maybe a little odd? But a portion of the proceeds going to his family is indeed a very nice gesture.

nothing odd about it... basically just paying the family the per-unit sales compensation Barry would have otherwise earned if he was there today.

1 week later
#4464 37 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead_:

I just don't buy it. Seems like a big scary "if" that has no basis other than Disney is protective of their IP.

ehh... licensing in this space is far more about PEOPLE than it is black & white legalities. Roger Sharpe and Joe K are so effective in their roles to secure rights not because they have the best lawyers, but because of reputation, experience, past performance, and networking.

Very much so someone would be worried about thumbing their nose at a major licensor they want to keep in good standings with.

#4481 35 days ago

For some reason people continue to argue like original vs licensed is all that matters. Instead of listening to the actual companies that tell you why they do it and how it benefits them.

Meanwhile... companies pre-sell games by the hundreds based on the title alone... while games like BBQ and LOV launch, and people want to see video, experience, play, before they decide to buy.

See the difference?

So let's keep it real simple for folks... an unlicensed theme has to prove itself and convince people to buy/play - often in a crowded space. A licensed title people already have an attachment to gets a VIP pass to the buyer's wallet.

A licensed title is a head start in sales, development, and a shortcut to an audience's emotions. Original content has to start from scratch in those categories, and companies don't always have that luxury to wait around and build all that up.. while for paying a tax, they can get that boost and deal with it's constraints.

No one has 20yr old nostaglia for a new original title that came out last month. But people do for a brand/identity from their past. Games are selling direct to buyers by and large now. That's who the companies are chasing...

#4484 35 days ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

I wonder if AP licensed the "Williams Pinball" branding to slap on their games, if it would help improve initial reception. Pinheads still highly value that brand.
It wouldn't be some huge game changer, but I'm curious how people would initially react if it was "Bally Pinball's Galactic Tank Force" "Williams Pinball's Barbecue Challenge". They're trying to evoke that era. Go all the way?

No one would pre-buy a game just because of a WMS logo, just like no one is pre-buying BBQ because it has Barry's name on it.

Brand identity usually brings loyalty, trust, and willingness to check something out... but that's not the same as 'jumping in'. The brand brings an expectation - but usually isn't what sparks the buy.

A "Williams Galatic Tank Force" still has to prove itself to buyers on why that game would mean something to them.

Original themes can sell if they are great games. The problem is you gotta prove to people they are great games (which takes time and energy), and you are unlikely to get many sales from people who don't know the difference between good/bad. Meanwhile, Harry Potter next it, would generate sales based on the name alone long before anyone knows if it's good or bad.. and many would buy it even if it was bad.

It's an uphill fight - why push the rock?

#4487 35 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

So you're telling me that if this was themed Guy Fieri's Buckeroo BBQ Bonanza or K.C. Masterpiece Master Pit Chef Challenge people'd be chomping at the bit to buy this?
Or...Just to keep it in the real real... this was themed Back to the Future but just as it is?
The theme is the least of the issues with this particular game.
the new black knight didn't sell poorly because it wasn't a known IP. It was VERY known in the community. It sold poorly because it isn't that fun.

But know what... it sold a ton of games before people even knew how good or bad it was. And it still sold a ton more games than any AP game.

Same as a BTTF game would...

One option creates sales with a name... the other requires you to prove yourself first.

#4528 31 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

That's why we got the weird dino-stop motion Hot Wheels and not a proper Hot Wheels - it's what was available that had animation already done.

More than likely it's what the licensor wanted to showcase. The brand and content they have been promoting - not some new creative thing. Just like if you tried to highlight the style that a company has moved on from... they will want things aligning to what they are pushing.

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