(Topic ID: 322628)
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James Bond 007 (60th LE)
Stern, 2023
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3 months later
Just to add something to the cost conversation. Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that Kaneda is telling people not to spend $2,000 on toppers and to wait to buy pretty much every pinball machine when he's spending $500+ on Gucci shirts that likely cost $4 to make? lol
Quoted from Aurich:Don't you think it's weird that he threw you under the bus after taking your money and you're thinking about what kind of shirts he wears?
Cleanse your mind, stop worrying about what people who don't mean anything to your life do and say. You'll be happier.
Nah, it wasn't some major thought or anything. I was just checking the Facebook page and thought it was ironic when I saw the topper comments. I've cancelled my Patreon, I've been happy, a simple observation isn't worrying.
Quoted from iceman44:Nobody is saying that you Crazy Leveeee! Just making shit up again
Ffs. You are one sensitive Stern defender. Just like Panzer and JJP.
LYMAN SHEETS, the coding King may he RIP
Hey even I'll criticize JJP every now and then lol (ex, code and quality threads I've made about JJP).
Quoted from Aurich:Maybe we'll find out tomorrow. Since it's fun to speculate I'll put in my guess:
It will not have a ton of modes. Everything we think we know points to the opposite:
Single level playfield likely means a throwback to older, more basic solid state games. My guess is Elwin's layout is not meant for long ball times, and 'modes'.
Physical score reels, if that part is true, point at simpler scoring based rules.
Limited to 500 doesn't point to making complicated software a priority, or lots of updates like other Elwin games. Why spend all that energy if you can't sell more, and few will be on location to attract people?
My guess is this is "another Beatles" just with an Elwin layout instead of a tweaked Seawitch. Simpler rules, easy to pick up and play, aimed at rich collectors not 'hardcore' players. Will play the Bond theme a lot, have callouts from the various movies, and be something guests can enjoy easily.
Who the fuck knows, that's just my guess and logic.
Having a classic feeling game mechanically with a deep ruleset would be a welcomed changed. For the supposed price of the game I’m hoping it does have a deep rule set with many modes. $15k - $20k for a game with 4 modes or no traditional style modes? I don’t think that’s going to happen. Load it up with modes for longevity as most of these are going into a home.
Quoted from mstang01:It could be both fast (and not as deep) like a classic, and have a lot of modes if they let you select your bond at the beginning… (final hours of wild speculation )
That sounds cool and would be a lot of fun.
Quoted from kklank:This is comical.
Zero frenzy here. Not even If they attached a gold bar to it. That ended with Beatles and Elvira.
That's because 100's of Pinsiders are busy this morning going to the bank and putting $20k into a briefcase to then hand to their distributor for this game.
My goodness, I enjoy Stern games but their game commercials are pretty bad with that one possibly being the worse ever. Yes, we can see the hat spinning, 3 times thank you.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Let's see
2 flippers
2 slings
4 opto spinners
2 saucers
1 4 bank of drops
1 3 bank of drops
1 3-in-line drops
1 horizontal spinner bash toy
2 pops
1 captive ball
2 control gates
then a few stand up targets
I've updated the list to fit Stern's marketing
2 ultra flippers with 3D ball action
2 super slings with active feedback
4 ultra opto spinners with 360 rotation
2 mega saucers featuring direct lift action
1 4 bank of drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology (patent pending)
1 3 bank of drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology (patent pending)
1 3-in-line drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology with reverse field action
1 360 horizontal spinner bash toy with ultra fast motion
2 pops with twin direction super movement
1 captive ball with momentum feedback
2 control gates featuring active movement technology
then a few stand up targets featuring high density feedback for rapid ball speed
Quoted from epthegeek:Wait a second. Is that actually a set of 4 reels and NOT any LCD screen? 4 digits? seven miles apart? Really?
There's a bit near the beginning where the player presses start and some graphics disappear from the display so I thought it was just an LCD.[quoted image][quoted image]
It does look like mechanical reels which is nice. The sad part is this game and pretty much all others being made today are cool but it's the insane pricing that is off putting. This is sadly the Disney approach in full effect of offering a limited number of "luxury experiences" (in this case items) for astronomical prices and not caring if most of the customer base is cut off.
Quoted from Kkoss24:Modders better get on the “Daniel Craig’s arm holding a gun “decal pronto !!
[quoted image]
On the way, 3D printed for $200
Quoted from doublestack:Toy story is still a turd for 15k.
Quoted from doublestack:I have to not respond. This will be a Toy Story 4 thread just like the dark master wants it to be.
I see a rather negative post about Toy Story and I'm going to choose to ignore it. I'm happy for you that you find Toy Story to be a turd for $15k lol. We all have different opinions.
Quoted from SLRage:Dude you need to “let it go”. TS4 for 15k was a joke no matter what happens here! You are relentless!
I see you didn't see the part where I said "this is a joke". Don't be so sensitive (as I myself was with Toy Story).
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Can we cut to the chase and throw panzer out of this thread now or do we have to wait a few more hours?
We all know how this plays out.
Hi Crazy. How are you doing today? I hope you are well. I'm not going to reply to every Toy Story bash post, reply or whatever and legitimately apologize for filling up some threads doing so. I get it and will do better. As I said above we all have different opinions.
Quoted from 80sMan:This is such crap, I’m out. It looks like they just stole the design from JJP GNR and are trying to charge double the amount for it. It’s got the same side-art style as the LE, Slash’s hat replaced with Oddjob’s and the same size stupid lcd in the center of the playfield instead of the top right.. and we don’t even know what songs are in it? just the same Bond theme over and over again and we’re supposed to just throw 10’s of thousands of dollars at it? Please do better Stern and quit with these crap cash grabs.
Yeah. I think it was Picasso that said "good artists borrow, great artists steal", all the manufactures have done it.
Quoted from Kkoss24:I had a bad feeling when I heard about that dude .Went through something similar with a “summer place “ we had .It was only a park model at a very scenic campgrounds but we were very close to about a dozen families there. Big Corporate took over , jacked prices catering to the next class upward and we all had to leave .Sad but what are you going to do .Didn’t JJP go though this recently ? If so this all makes sense now .Carry on
I think JJP is owned by a family, Brett Abess owns or runs it I believe, that bought out JJP 5 years or so ago.
The shame of this whole thing is the price. The game as others have said looks pretty neat. At $10k - $12k there would likely be a lot more people buying this game. It's not often we get a new game that incorporates classic and modern hardware features.
Quoted from Dan1733:What evidence is there that this game has any movie assets at all?
So far I'm thinking there are zero movie assets (beyond the artwork), at least not video assets from the movies. Without a main LCD screen there may not enough to justify paying for video assets for a mini LCD screen. Considering the asking price though there should be movie clips across multiple Bond films. Even if the license fee would have been $1k per game who cares as look what it already costs. Even $2k per game, just do it at these crazy price levels and go all out at that point.
Quoted from cooked71:It actually looked slightly better in the 3d renders.
There is absolutely nothing high end collectible about that complete package.
I mean really.....?
[quoted image]
The game was designed as a cash grab pure and simple versus being something driven from passion. This is not like Batman 66 SLE, Star Trek LE, Godzilla LE, or really most Stern LE's where you can tell extra effort went into it.
People can say whatever they want about Toy Story 4 CE (using it as an example due to the debate about the price) but like it or not at least it actually has "higher end" features such as RadCal's, the playfield sparkle, art blades from the factory, a mirrored backglass, a custom molded shooter knob versus a sticker, a high quality metallic powder coat, matching powder coated interior pieces, signatures from the entire design team, a significantly more substantial topper, etc. There's nothing really like that in Bond 60th and it cost $5k more at $20k...Charge $15k, $20k, whatever but at least make it somewhat come across as a high end item. Where's the foil decals that Stern has used before, the higher end powder coat (Batman 66 SLE), and a more substantial topper (Batman 66, Black Knight SOR)?
Quoted from CurtisC:on the positive side...
the layout looks interesting and simple to build. Can't wait to copy the vpin file and retheme it in a home brew.
I can see VPW making a digital version in a few years, if they can pretty much fully recreate GOT and IM as well as they did then this should be a bit easier.
Quoted from Rarehero:Quite possibly the ugliest art package Stern has ever done. Congrats WPT & 24!!! You’re finally off the hook!!!!
The powder coat is already chipping...Looks like a rather cheap powder coat finish versus the higher end ones Stern has offered on Batman 66 SLE and Elvira 40th.
Quoted from Rarehero:This just reveals the truth about the “higher end” Sterns - quality-wise, no more care goes into them compared to a Pro. I think the only two games that were ever advertised with higher quality were LOTR LE & Avatar LE. They were specially sold with a double clearcoat. My Avatar LE definitely had a reaaaaally glassy smooth playfield. I wonder why they dropped that for higher end games - it’s definitely a nice perk.
Yeah. I don't understand why Stern wouldn't want to go all out with this title other then to generate the biggest profit. The game does look cool and fun to play yet for the price it's lacking in pretty much every higher end feature Stern and other companies have offered. Stern may think there's enough customers to drop $20k on a pinball machine without many CE / SLE style features, or that they simply don't care about those items. That's a bit of an insult to customers as it comes across as not knowing they are knowledgeable.
For the price I think many thought this was going to be decked out Batman 66 SLE style. High end metallic powder coat, powder coated speaker grill, factory art blades, custom molded shooter knob, a more interactive topper, foil artwork, a random apron mounted signature card from one of the remaining Bond actors. Stuff like that, none of that is there.
For $20k the game should scream "We are are Stern pinball and this is one of the highest end products we have ever offered" not "Let's try to see how much money we can take from you"...
Quoted from TreyBo69:This is the dumbest fucking thing I've read in this thread
This is an SLE that is actually unique in every way, but somehow it's a a SLE without any extra effort. Some of you people...
How is this?
322687592_1505111059983206_5780290210963900859_n (resized).jpg
Worth $5k more then this with a ton of less features?
323354191_1273451633232335_6956433317726452917_n (resized).jpg
Quoted from TreyBo69:What part of it's an entirely unique game don't you get lol
Sure its a unique game, every game is and there's 500 of these being made. For $20k though where's the matching higher end features that Stern has put on their other high end titles such as Batman 66 SLE, Elvira 40th, etc? Shouldn't this game at least match those in terms of collectible features? That seems to be what people are annoyed about, not that the game doesn't look fun to play.
For $20k the game should scream "We are are Stern pinball and this is one of the highest end products we have ever offered" not "Let's try to see how much money we can take from you" lol.
Quoted from pinmister:Panzer don't forget how things have changed in the last 5 years-inflation is at an all time high. Is 007 SLE overpriced? I think it is about $5000-$6000 too high. Let's not forget about the cost of licensing, development, etc. The game is really unique and innovative but people have their blinders on for some reason. Score reels-super badass, horseshoe orbit-looks super fun, 3 bank-fun, Top Hat-fun, now add fantastic modes with 007 assets-shit man-how can you not like that? They will sell out of these with no issues. Stern has added so many distributors they are probably grasping at the chance to have more allocation. I can't wait to flip this one in person.
Yeah, it's definitely a different world today then it was 5 years ago. Like you said $15k seems more "reasonable", at $20k though it would have been nice to see far more of those higher end features that we are used to seeing. Hoping as well that there's one around here to play as it does look like fun.
In the words of Cary Hardy "Includes an exclusive topper, with the help of electricity it fully illuminates".
Quoted from beltking:Wish Daniel Craig did the call outs. TS4 you get the great callouts.
Do not praise Toy Story 4 here, the Supreme Court has deemed the praise of that game to be banished.
Quoted from romulusx:Yea no shit.What’s hilarious is a lot of the same folks that were crapping all over TS4 for costing too much(it does) and not having enough stuff are strongly defending this!
Yup…a lot of people are complaining though this time and don’t see a high end product being offered. Charge $15k, $20k, whatever but at least make it look and come across as a high end item versus trying to pull one over.
Toy Story 4 CE at $15k: High quality powder coated armor, substantial interactive topper, custom callouts by two of the cast (Tim Allen, Annie Pots), sparkle playfield, RadCals, custom molded shooter knob, signature plate signed by the entire team, mirrored back glass, interior art blades, interior powder coated pieces
Bond 60th at $20k: Mirrored black glass, shooter knob with a sticker, non interactive topper, and ?
Quoted from manadams:[quoted image]
That's what I once thought but it looks nice in person. I've never seen a playfield in person with it before, just a nice extra feature.
It was a mentioned a few pages back how Ferrari, Lamborghini, and other high end luxury car brands charge crazy money for vehicles and that it's ok for there to be such expensive items out there that very few can afford. So why not Stern with Bond 60th? The problem with Bond 60th is that it's the equivalent of GM offering a standard Camaro with a different paint color, saying there's 500 of them, and then charging double the price. That wouldn't fly in car land but for some reason it's ok in pinball...
To be a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc you need to offer high end materials and options in the product which is the exact opposite of what Stern has done with Bond 60th. Although crazy expensive there's still perceived value in those high end cars, that same perceived value doesn't exist for Bond 60th. Why not? There's no foil cabinet decals, no high end powder coat, no factory art blades, no team and or actor signatures, a rather basic looking topper which now isn't even limited to the 60th model, the photoshop cabinet artwork, the shooter rod that has a sticker on it. Bond 60th offers nothing close to what Stern and JJP have offered in SLE (Batman 66) and CE (GNR, Wonka, Toy Story) type models.
Pretty much every single time Ferrari, and Lamborghini releases a vehicle it's a very high end product that says "This is one of the best products we offer". Does Bond 60th represent one of the best products Stern has offered. No. For $20k it should be a statement piece, especially when Batman 66 SLE was $15k new and look at everything in that game. There doesn't need to be $20k worth of parts and accessories on the game but it does need to have perceived value which is where Stern failed.
Quoted from skink91:I keep wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt dude… but you are sort of like the bullied kid that can’t figure out why they keep getting swirlies…
It's a joke...If people can do the same the opposite way why is it not allowed the other?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:You have a serious case of tunnel vision my friend.
There are 4,700 posts in this topic and almost ALL of them are "questioning Bond 60th pricing."
There are also 50 posts here about Toy Story 4, and all of them are yours.
Can we just skip to the part where you get ejected again?
I should have added a trigger warning for yourself and a few others on here. It was joke, you razz people on here all the time and should understand that. Guess joking can only go one way...
Quoted from skink91:Sure it is… thats why you keep on with it, right? Can’t stop talking about it… because its a joke. Yep.
That’s also what that aforementioned bullied kid always said as their head was getting put in the toilet…
Never had the swirly problem, no one would have attempted that against me, probably because I was always overweight when younger lol. Oh man, I just made a joke about myself now. I can though how some others on here may have been the bullies though with the way they react which is sad.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Aren't jokes supposed to be funny?
Zach was right in his latest SDTM video "You can't mention that game" lol.
Can we get back to talking about how much of a great value Bond 60th is? *Joke. Regardless of the price Bond 60th does look like fun which is what pinball is all about. It appears to be a cool mashup of classic and modern pinball. Hope to play one if I ever get a chance.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:You keep talking about jokes but I'm not seeing any.
I know you could get lulled around here into thinking repetition is funny (There are STILL people who think saying "10K by christmas!" is a knee slapper here), but that's not how jokes work.
Bringing up TS4 endlessly isn't funny, it's just repetitive. It's not a joke.
Don't mention that game! Everyone knows both games are overpriced which is why they are now compared. Can we please get back to talking about the features of Bond 60th?
2 ultra flippers with 3D ball action
2 super slings with active feedback
4 ultra opto spinners with 360 rotation
2 mega saucers featuring direct lift action
1 4 bank of drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology (patent pending)
1 3 bank of drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology (patent pending)
1 3-in-line drops featuring Stern's new bounce back technology with reverse field action
1 360 horizontal spinner bash toy with ultra fast motion
2 pops with twin direction super movement
1 captive ball with momentum feedback
2 control gates featuring active movement technology
Quoted from delt31:Been on the sidelines taking all of this in. What a mess. I'll try to not be repetitive.
Positive wise, I actually love the way the 60th 007 looks. I even think that topper is sharp! The black contrast along with the movie images just pops. Of the four models, LE is the nicest of the three (cornerstones) while this 60th (imo) is the nicest of the four. For a single level, Elwin looks to have a created a really fun shooter and who doesn't love spinners?
On the flip side, charging $20,000 for rarity only is a slap in the face to the community. It's an attempt to turn this hobby into a trading card market and I will not support that. I can easily afford this and I told my distributor NO when they reached out. Very simple - I'm not a mark. Not a sucker. The bar is already low in pinball for value but this is ridiculous. Sorry. And Stern is continuing to put their foot in their mouth with this exclusive topper - what an embarrassment.
Shout out to rotordave post #4228 who said it better than I can - 100% agree with everything he said.
But what about the other changes I'm seeing recently? All for the worse.....
1) Podcaster/Distributor complaining when customers decide to wait and see vs. just running out to BUY BUY BUY? Terrible. It's called common sense, especially with many feeling burned from the company's prior release and when there are 1900+ games - why jump in now? I will never support that business model.
2) We're being charged the most but actually losing things we had before. The best example is 007 (prem/LE) where the pop bumpers all go off at once vs individually. Why? Stern would have to install another node board and as George Gomez asked recently - where is that extra money coming from to raise the BOM? I don't know George, maybe from the 13k you're now charging for a LE or 10k for the prem - the most Stern has ever charged for these models? And sorry, it's not the cost of wood going up. The only thing sky rocketing recently is greed.
We deserve better. The good news is that the community appears to be revolting against this BS. 007 60th prices already tanking. Toy Story 4? Complete miss with prices in the toilet as well - rightfully so. Stern/JJP - build something that even tries to warrant these new price tags and you will be rewarded - we don't ask for much.
Until then - dig in pinside!
I think you summed it up pretty well. Charging for rarity alone cannot justify such a big difference in price. Typically rare higher end items are backed up with features / options that help add perceived value. We are not seeing enough perceived value with this title. Batman 66 SLE had a jaw dropping price at the time ($15k) but at least it had perceived value due to all the features on it.
Quoted from JakePG:The LCD in the PF plays toy story 4 while you're playing
Don't mention that game or even the movie! It's upsetting and can invoke the response below.
Quoted from skink91:Ha. Yeah… you really got us good on that one! Genius! Another winner!
Don't threaten anyone with a swirly!
Quoted from TreyBo69:for an entirely unique layout out of Stern, 500 does seem pretty low to me
There are what, 400 Tron LEs? People go nuts for those, and there is a pro model equivalent (which people bling out to almost being a LE). It's a decent game, but people love the theme, the music, and the lit up ramps.
There's 150 AMHs. No one really cares
There's like 10 Goin Nuts. No one really cares
There's 20,000 Addams Family. People go nuts for that game
It's almost like none of it makes sense and it's all emotionally driven purchases...
They're definitely banking on rich Elwin stans and rich Bond fanatics. And maybe they did overshoot the price. Shrug. I doubt they need to sell more than half to make the whole venture profitable.
Yeah but none of those games were anywhere close to $20k new, that's the issue. All of those games were under $10k new.
Quoted from Zablon:Really pushing those spinners!
They are not just spinners but rather "360 degree revolving Diamonds are Forever optical spinners with dual rotation technology".
"4 spinners"
"Optical spinners"
"It's selling from $18,000 - $30,000"
"Look at a Supreme"
"Not every product is for everyone"
I get the "Not every product is for everyone" comment. That's true, very high end products are often not affordable. However, those items are typically backed up with features, options, and above and beyond build quality that help to offer perceived value as well as make them standout against cheaper products. There's no reason, other then wanting bigger profits, for Bond 60th not to be decked out with a ton of features. Foil decals, a high quality powder coat (or bronze plated armor), a true exclusive interactive topper, autograph card from one of the remaining Bond actors, factory art blades. Things like that needed to be in this game.
For $20k Bond 60th should have been Batman 66 SLE 2.0 in terms of high end features but instead it looks similar to Jurassic Park home edition.
More companies should really take this approach.
Little Cesar's could offer 500 limited edition pizza's for $100 each. What's special about them? Who knows but there's only 500 and it has "exclusive pepperonis".
McDonalds could offer 500 limited edition Big Mac's (numbered boxes) for $200 each. These will feature exclusive pickles and come signed by the Hamburglar.
Things are calming down and within a few months we will see a "I was wrong about Bond 60th - what a great pin - initial thoughts" thread.
The real question is when we see a thread created by a Bond 60th owner about enjoying their game will a special select few on Pinside insult them for buying the game, tell them their stupid, tell them their family are like children for enjoying the game, and disagree with any positive comment about the game? Time will tell but since it’s a Stern game I somehow doubt it lol.
Quoted from skink91:Good god man… are you for real?
Don’t threaten anyone with a swirly!
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:Time to dust off the cobwebs of very old pinball coding ideas... introducing Nemesis - the future of pinball multiplayer.
Read the video description for more information.
Super cool! Really impressive. Do you plan to upload a final version to VP Universe? Would enjoy trying this out on my Ultra VP 6.0 vpin.
Quoted from screaminr:I've said it before but I'll say it again , Kelly's Heroes would make a great pin .
[quoted image]
Yes. Then we can use this for everyone that complains about it.
1 month later
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