seems obvious to me they are not covering this issue under warranty currently and they are not going to cover it in the future either.

Such a shame and really a bad situation all around.

I can only imagine the amount of freaking out that Stern is doing right now. I blame Rick and MMR

All just a hypothetical based on the stories going around >>>
Seems this all stems from the MMR fiasco which provided a conflict of interest from you most important part supplier, the guys that make your pf. Someone started playing dirty, you tell them to piss off and find a new team to make your pfs. Now you are dealing with a subpar product, major issues that dont show up till after the product leave s the factory, and no feasible way to compensate all these people that have purchased your product.

To top it all off Expo is just around the corner, JJP is bringing game #3, Heighway is bringing Aliens, and your market has a whole lot of good potential hype for your competition combined with a big issue you are facing.

I sincerely hope that Stern steps up to the plate and does something to rectify this issue ASAP.

I can tell you 100% that if I had some of the issues that the photos in this thread show and got no immediate fix from Stern and my distributor, then I would print out 5000 full color flyers and hand them out at Expo to ensure I got the message out loud and clear.

if they thought "#wheresthecode" was a bad thing...

This to me is the equivalent of buying a new car and it is rusting badly and parts are starting to fall off in 500miles of driving.

I would buy it...

for about 4800...

Thats actually kinda generous.

What do you expect for $8,000? A machine that looks flawless and mint? We need a CEO who's gonna make Pinball Great Again because right now the quality just plain sucks!

Going to be hard to sell these games going forward.

Potential buyers are going to ask for p/f manufacturer date and everything in this window will be avoided.

I had planned to possibly buy a used machine in ~6 months as NIB owner start flipping their HUO used machines back into the market.

With this mess, I will be an extremely cautious buyer on this title! Now we will be looking for insert ghosting photos in addition to shooter lane photos!

I hope this gets unambiguously resolved with the Premiums - as this is the machine I potentially would see myself buying anyway.

This is starting to get really scary now. It makes me not want to play my game at all. It's a shame that so many are reporting this issue. Besides the playfield woes, this is a really good game.

...sad to say but if you are buying ANY NEW PINBALL from Stern today, or anytime beginning June 2016, the analogy about having sex without a condom does feel a little close. You have to believe the issue will be fixed, but for current titles, is it worth taking the chance rather than buying a HUO game instead? It is much cheaper and I'd lean towards the latter given the choice.

Let's assume after Stern fixes the issue in their production process, yet decides to do nothing for current owners of ghosting (Stern will have to fix playfields with the sinking insert issue imho). Any title in production through balance of the year should continue seeing Stern running batches of playfields periodically. So you can likely snag one for $400. If you aren't inclined to swapping playfields, you might hire someone for $500 to swap and shop. Add transportation and misc and you can expect to pay $1k to fix this issue in the future.

So that GBLE that you bought for x, it really costs you x + $1k. But at that point you are whole, it is just the game was more than expensive than advertised. It took a lot of effort that should not have been required. And you got screwed by Stern (assumes they do nothing for customers). This same analogy of adding $1k to your purchase price applies to any title coming out the factory.

Does this example apply to GB LE? yes
Does this example apply to GB pro? yes
Does this example apply to GB premium? yes

Does this example apply to GOT LE? yes
Does this example apply to GOT pro? yes
Does this example apply to GOT prem? yes

Does this example apply to MET pro? yes
Does this example apply to MET prem? yes

Does this example apply to TWD pro? yes
Does this example apply to TWD prem? yes

Does this example apply to ST pro? yes
Does this example apply to ST prem? yes

Does this example apply to KISS pro? yes
Does this example apply to KISS prem? yes

Does this example apply to SMVE pro? no*

BUYER BEWARE is the only warning you will see. Ignore this advice at your own peril.

* - SMVE playfields will not likely be rerun, so don't think you can expect to find a perfect replacement playfield.

Wait a sec... So now "ghosting" has two terms in pinball? I thought "ghosting" was when the LED had a left over dim? Now, "ghosting" means the flaking of the insert? Kinda confused on this "ghosting" term.

yeah, current issue is insert ghosting, former issue is all about led ghosting. Not to be confused with the ghosts found while playing GB or AMH.

Gary Stern: I will build a wall around the bad playfields, and JJP is going to pay for it!

Yes, since the goal on Ghost Busters is to catch ghosts, you can have a Ghost that Ghosts That Ghosts!

Supposedly, the LE run is starting back up this week, after a brief stop.

We need to pay attention to LE games made in August, to see if they have the ghosting problem. This will tell us Premium buyers what to expect.

Stern,

#fixyourplayfields

I have the money ready, and was prepared to order a Spiderman VE.

Since you are not addressing your playfield quality problems, I will hold on to my cash.

Good luck paying your bills.

This is what I heard as well, let's hope they got this figured out as my LE is gunna be in this final run produced

Mine's on the truck. Delivery Wednesday. Has to be a late July mfg date.

I've heard they didn't make any in late July. I think mid July was the cutoff. Hopefully, that time off was to address the issue.

VERY curious to see your manufacture date. Could enlighten us if there really was a pause in the manufacturing. Could just be rumors.

I heard my Premium is getting in Australia on the 18th of August, so let's hope the play field has no issues

I'm just a fly on the wall with no horse in this race, but it seems to me that's it would be hard to identify where the problem is exactly

you've got a "build" date on playfields, but without knowing if this is start or completion date, it would be hard to gauge whether stern isn't giving the playfields the proper amount of time to cure after inserts have been added, the playfield sanded, the artwork screened and the clear coat applied.

I would hope that there was more than just a few days between gluing the inserts and sanding the playfields before the artwork is screened and then another week or so prior to clear coating and finally another week or 2 to let the clear coat cure

I don't know if "ghosting" would be the best term? Maybe "Insert Denaturing." Whatever the term, I can see what is happening with the inserts from the posted pics and I sympathize with the new Stern owners on this discovery.

Urban dictionary states...
Ghosting: The act of suddenly ceasing all communication with someone the subject is dating, but no longer wishes to date. This is done in hopes that the ghostee will just "get the hint" and leave the subject alone, as opposed to the subject simply telling them he/she is no longer interested. Ghosting is not specific to a certain gender and is closely related to the subject's maturity and communication skills. Many attempt to justify ghosting as a way to cease dating the ghostee without hurting their feelings, but it in fact proves the subject is thinking more of themselves, as ghosting often creates more confusion...

Pretty clear that there has been a manufacturing flaw that took Stern a fair bit of time to catch and remedy.

Would be very surprised if any playfields after August suffer from the issue.

Stern won't release info as would lead to more claims and they realize many people just won't pick up on the issue - i.e people who just buy one or two pinballs for a gamesroom but have zero forum interest.

Looks like Nifty LED is starting up the #FixMyPlayfield hashtag. I wonder if it'll be the new Where's the Code? movement.

And maybe even Spooky not too far behind with their next title. I hope Charlie and Ben have been getting some design time in. They are ~1/4 of the way there shipping RZ and they haven't been at it too long. Dominos seems to be in the ~200 QTY based off of recent interviews. They might only have a build backlog until mid-2017. Stern is in the doghouse and with years on licenses, I can wait to buy if they come out with a dream title and crush it.

#FixMyPlayfield

Stern says contact distributor
Distributor contacts Stern and says they don't reply

#NoMoreSternNIB

image_(resized).jpeg

Seems like the name of the distributor is pretty relevant in your story, but I don't see it.

If the issue is the inserts sinking from airballs hitting them, then mylar won't help. It will keep sinking to a point and if it's enough the clear can just crack under the mylar. Epoxying or supergluing (?) the edges of the underside of inserts BEFORE you play will give you the best chance of keeping the inserts from sinking. Stern should be doing this at the factory by now. Who knows if they are, though...

Can we collate which inserts are ghosting? This may give some clues to the problem. I have tobins, add a ball, super jack and maybe storage. Or it could just be random??

Dont know if it helps, but When I received mine last month, I left the playfield glass off for 24 hours-48 hours and waxed the playfield before I started playing.

Today I would add turn off the shaker, and add a plastic over the targets by ramp.

I threw on a clear sling protector...not pretty, but works, until a MOD, template, or I cut one to fit.
Airballs are greatly reduced, Shaker will be turned back on, and so far no insert issues.

Likely nothing I did, just luck, but when I took the glass off, there was that "new car", "new pin" smell from plastics, maybe just a day or two to cure or acclimate to my house temp and humidity?

Dont know, but it was open under the first main blowing AC vent, a new AC only a month old, and I had air blowing across it.
Possible? Witch hunt?

Oh, and Curly had it opened, unboxed, installed blades, before I did what I did, so there was lots of extra "open air time"
first.

That's my game plan as well Art. Can't hurt. I get mine next week so we'll see.

Mine will be delivered Friday, I am also getting a TWD LE Friday. So my plan is to let the GB LE sit with the glass off for a few weeks to fully cure while I play the heck out of the TWD LE. I'll disable the shaker, never been a fan of them. I turned the shaker off in my STLE and my MMr LE anyways.

I think you guys are being a little goofy if you think 24 hours of having the glass off is going to help cure your clearcoat any faster. Couldn't hurt, but I can't imagine it can help much at all.

I was thinking more of temperature, and humidity on the clear coat.

Ive taken glass off, after a pins been in my car in the sun a few hours, and it can get quite toasty inside the playfield.

Equally, on 2 occasions, Ive seen moisture/condensation over the years.

Goofy? Yes! Not much else I can do but enjoy the game!!!!!

Just for clarity,
how do we know Stern has remedied the issues?

Stern is not speaking to the issues.

Owners are continuing to report after months of ownership.

If we are left to judge for ourselves, I will wait a year to see if their process stabilizes before I even consider their machines again.

Even so, if they don't disclose root cause, it is possible the cause will return..

Stern,
I'm keeping my money. No, you can't take it.

Insanity is slowly taking over Pinside.

Absolutely! Im retired now, and heavily medicated!

What else is there?

sheesh, you forgot to mention having a fan blowing air across the surface. Yeah, that's the ticket.

or you could use date stamped on playfield plus 45 days (mentioned by CPR).

Guys, don't leave your games unplayed. All it will do is delay the issue, not prevent it. This isn't a curing issue, it's an issue of bad adhesion and shoddy clearing. If you wait a month before playing, and then your issue shows up, Stern is going to raise an eyebrow at your claim that your game that you've had for 2 months only has 200 plays on it. Just get it, play it, and hope you got lucky. Stern has never had these issues before now, and people didn't let their games sit for a month before playing at any point in Stern's history.

Maybe chanting an Incan fertility dance would help.

I was using a straw to blow on the playfield inserts!

Seriously, Ive had a handful of PMs as to "what I did", as I dont have any ghosting.....yet....(knock on wood).

So i thought Id just share what I did.

I didnt take of the glass to let "cure", I just happened to be busy closing
up the business paperwork, and the glass was left off, while I was adding the outlane and center post kit.

I just sold 2 games to get GB but I am now looking to get something else and wait a year or so to make sure they get the problems fixed.

I guess someone else will be getting my $6500

Im thinking a blow dryer might help with the curing process, but what do you think about taking a hot iron to the playfield?

Maybe the clearcoat is not the issue. Maybe the inserts were not properly installed causing them to sink from being pounded from the ball.

Are the inserts held in place by friction or is there an inner ledge they are on prior to being glued in? Are they even glued in?

First NIB. SMVE purchased mid April 2016. Manufacture date March 11, 2016. Almost every single insert in ghosting. About 500 plays.

2SZ_3647_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3649_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3648_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3650_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3652_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3651_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3653_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3654_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3655_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3656_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3657_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3658_(resized).JPG

2SZ_3646_(resized).JPG

I don't understand what the issue is with the apparent ghosting in the inserts. Will it eventually raise or lower in the playfield thus causing premature wear to the playfield? When the inserts are lit and I'm playing my GOT, I do not notice the ghosting in the inserts at all. Please explain what I am missing here.