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(Topic ID: 164959)

Is your Stern ghosting / crazing / insert lifting / other ?


By flashinstinct

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 724 posts
  • 197 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Who-Dey
  • Topic is favorited by 31 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“I own a GB, GOT, SMVE, Other”

  • My SMVE playfield has issues 47 votes
    12%
  • My GOT playfield has issues 56 votes
    15%
  • My GB playfield has issues 125 votes
    33%
  • My SMVE playfield has no issues 19 votes
    5%
  • My GOT playfield has no issues 60 votes
    16%
  • My GB playfield has no issues 72 votes
    19%

(Multiple choice - 379 votes by 293 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

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There are 719 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 15.
#101 4 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

This is the bad insert on my new MET pro. Not sure what to think of it. Could be worse but wish I could fix it.

Was it like that out of the box? Or did you put any games on it?

#102 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffsarcade:

Was it like that out of the box? Or did you put any games on it?

Game was a floor model so I looked the game over pretty good before I bought it. I remember looking for that exact issue and did not see it. Maybe I missed that one insert but did notice shortly after I had it home. I have not talked to my distributor or contacted Stern. Might be able to work out something but if so it will probably be a huge inconvenience. I've already modded the game and made it my own. I am very happy with rest of game. Like embryon said, I am not losing any sleep or stressing one bit over it. If that is the worse problem I have with pinball and life then I will happily take it. Just thought it would be good to share to help inform potential buyers that are concerned over these issues.

#103 4 years ago

Well, first it was 'don't buy nib early cause of code issues'. We got passed that (somewhat). Now it's don't buy any NIBs cause of ghosting issues. This is ridiculous.

If stern doesn't bite the bullet and get this remedied , their really gonna shoot themselves in the foot and lose a lot of business. I'm sure thankful spooky, jjp, & heighway are around now.

And with ghosted inserts came higher prices?!? Get your sh*t fixed stern.

#104 4 years ago

I have a deposit on a GB premium and am about to tell the distributor not to fill my order until I tell him to after I'm satisfied this is fixed. I'm in no rush.

#105 4 years ago
Quoted from SteveMan:

I have a deposit on a GB premium and am about to tell the distributor not to fill my order until I tell him to after I'm satisfied this is fixed. I'm in no rush.

Just posted this in the RGB thread. Machine birthday is July 14th, playfield is July 7th

20160731_170500_(resized).jpg

#106 4 years ago

My SMVE had a sliver of ghosting on an insert straight from the box
Less than 1 month and under 200 games later almost all inserts are ghosting and they are getting worse

#107 4 years ago
Quoted from phantasmo:

My SMVE had a sliver of ghosting on an insert straight from the box
Less than 1 month and under 200 games later almost all inserts are ghosting and they are getting worse

Wow ... what is Stern doing about that ...?

#108 4 years ago

Several of my GOT inserts have that ghosting but I do not notice it when playing. Is this purely cosmetic or is there more going on here that may be damaging to the playfield eventually?

#109 4 years ago

I wonder if shakers are contributing to the problem? All that significant extra vibration surly has to add to the wear on the game......

#110 4 years ago

I asked this on a couple other threads but is it possible that shaker motors are making the insert ghosting problem worse? It seems that GBLE and SMVE are particularly involved and both games come with a shaker already installed. That may help explain why the games initially look good out of the box but after being played a few days the ghosting develops and gets worse over time. The vibrations may cause the seal between the clearcoat and playfield to separate. Is there a ghosting problem on GB Pro's that don't gave a shaker motor?

#111 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Just posted this in the RGB thread. Machine birthday is July 14th, playfield is July 7th

That's some bullshit right there. I would be hot pissed

#112 4 years ago

What are your consumer rights in USA?

Do you have to take possession of a machine when it arrives (with damage) or can you demand a refund?

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from JJHLH:

I asked this on a couple other threads but is it possible that shaker motors are making the insert ghosting problem worse? It seems that GBLE and SMVE are particularly involved and both games come with a shaker already installed. That may help explain why the games initially look good out of the box but after being played a few days the ghosting develops and gets worse over time. The vibrations may cause the seal between the clearcoat and playfield to separate. Is there a ghosting problem on GB Pro's that don't gave a shaker motor?

Ghosting might worsen and chip away. You could end up with lifting inserts, wear on the pf. Etc. I've had a shaker motor on all the sterns I have owned and this problem never happened.

#114 4 years ago

Well after reading a few threads on this specific topic. Unless my distributor tells me in writing that they will replace the playfield I am staying 100 miles away from this game or any further games until Stern get's their head out of their ass and provide some clear indication of what they will do for the affected games.

Current Poll results
GB with playfield issues 61.33333333333333%
GOT with playfield issues 43.85964912280702%
SMVE with playfiel issues 65.625%
MET with playfield issues have now been confirmed.

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Well after reading a few threads on this specific topic. Unless my distributor tells me in writing that they will replace the playfield I am staying 100 miles away from this game or any further games until Stern get's their head out of their ass and provide some clear indication of what they will do for the affected games.
Current Poll results
GB with playfield issues 61.33333333333333%
GOT with playfield issues 43.85964912280702%
SMVE with playfiel issues 65.625%
MET with playfield issues have now been confirmed.

I'm not pro or con here, and I am NOT taking sides, but I do hate statements like this which are mis-leading without a qualifier. That being, the percentages you list are only a representative of the percentage of those that care to respond to the poll, and NOT a percentage of games produced. Given information that is known, there is no way to know if these percentages come anywhere close to a true sampling of what has been produced. As an example, I have no insert issues on my GB, and I also do not care to respond to polls which cannot be validated.

#116 4 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

I'm not pro or con here, and I am NOT taking sides, but I do hate statements like this which are mis-leading without a qualifier. That being, the percentages you list are only a representative of the percentage of those that care to respond to the poll, and NOT a percentage of games produced. Given information that is known, there is no way to know if these percentages come anywhere close to a true sampling of what has been produced.

Agreed but that is all I have to work with and since Stern doesn't produce these kind of numbers publicly then we are left to guess.

#117 4 years ago

I wonder how many operators care about this issue? And if they don't, will stern do anything about this. After all, didn't stern say that ops drive the market?

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I wonder how many operators care about this issue? And if they don't, will stern do anything about this. After all, didn't stern say that ops drive the market?

Stern will address the issue in some form or another. My guess is it will be a case by case basis, and I doubt you will see anything public. They will get roasted for being quiet, and anything they suggest will get picked apart and they will be roasted again for admitting to a problem and not doing enough in someone's eyes. They are not the monsters some would like people to believe, but with that said, they do have a problem on their hands and I am pretty sure they know it. Some folks will care, and some, like the operators you mentioned may not......so that is why I say they will address it case-by-case. But I also believe they will wait for all of the furor to die down, because anything they do will get blasted out to Pinside, and they will either get criticized, or they will have a whole bunch of people standing in line for whatever "fix" they would offer to someone.........

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:Wow ... what is Stern doing about that ...?

I am yet to bring it to the attention of the distributor, who is over 1000 miles away.
Though I did mention the out of the box sliver of ghosting in passing when organising to put deposit on a GB premium.
my playfield number is #307

#120 4 years ago

Just my thoughts regarding the reason for the playfield issues: could it be that the reason might be the ball itself, especially due to airballs, which crashes on the inserts and makes the cc lose. I know that as main reason the different movement of plastic insert and wooden playfield is stated, but that alone does not explain why the cc gets chips in the shooterlane (where no plastic is) and why there are comparatively low damages already out of the box.

So as a consequence, if the ball play itself causes the cc damages, a plastic playfield protector should prevent the ghosting. I do not see which machines have such protectors, but it would be interesting, if anybody has damages despite a playfield protector.

#121 4 years ago

I have empathy for all and as stated earlier, I have ghosting that may be getting worse. But......I hear that this is a problem and no matter how many more say it, it does not do more to solving the issue if it concerns you. I think people have been warned by now as well if this is a deciding factor. Now at the moment, more comments, in my opinion, is whining. You are preaching to guys like me that can't fix your problem and I don't think Stern is going to read all these comments and react.

So why don't those bitterly disappointed, hurt by it either get together and do 'pinball class action' after voicing their grievances in writing to Stern and hearing no reply or do it individually. Taking action is a positive path to solving your problem. I know if my pf turns to shit like some of the basket cases I'm hearing, Stern is where I'd be venting in a loud voice and not at pinside.

Maybe a letter with all the people effected signing and supplying real names, and real addresses and contact numbers will mean business than venting behind an Avatar???

What do you think? Who knows, I'm might be asking for such support in the near future.

Btw I'm investigating the shaker theory by turning mine off or to low setting. Thanks for listening

#122 4 years ago

I have a hundred games on mine right now, and the only issue so far is a minimal slither on the tobin insert, same on my SMVE, thats also only got a slight slither on a goblin , and no worse after 500 games. My Got and Kiss have absolutely no issues either, lucky, who knows, maybe in the morning I'll be saying otherwise ?

What I do see is people having games in a garage, it can get cold at night after a hot day , and changing temp and moisture does strange things to wood in regards to shrinking / expanding. Having said this I'm sure there are plenty of games in controlled rooms that develop the ghosting also.

I'm a seasoned painter, well aware of prepping materials to get a grip for lacquer, and turning of the shaker is absolutely no cure for this. I think It will take away from the enjoyment of the is pin .

Turning down the coil strengt to low is a good choice though, as airballs are frequent, and when they hit the cross over ramp they get knocked hard into the play field, right where the most offending inserts seem to be , tobin, super jackpot etc.. those knocks directly into the insert won't do any existing playfield any good, and when loosened up a cold night will help the ghosting to appear extra quick.

#123 4 years ago

Playfields have had problems with clear adhering to inserts for decades. It usually doesn't manifest itself in weeks or days, though.

The tops of the inserts are glass smooth and non porous so there's nothing for the clear to grab and is always the first place the clear starts to fail at. Well, maybe besides the shooter lane entrance.

That has been my experience with games from about the mid 80s on.

#124 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

The tops of the inserts are glass smooth and non porous so there's nothing for the clear to grab and is always the first place the clear starts to fail at.

I would not say they are glass smooth. All my arrow inserts have very visible (when lit) scratch marks in the plastics running in the direction of the table. I am assuming they use a giant belt sander over the whole playfield before screening.

-1
#125 4 years ago
Quoted from imharrow:

I would not say they are glass smooth. All my arrow inserts have very visible (when lit) scratch marks in the plastics running in the direction of the table. I am assuming they use a giant belt sander over the whole playfield before screening.

I have seen those fine line scratches the length of inserts, too. They are not enough for clear to grab. Of the many B/W inserts with flaked-off clear, the insert underneath was [if not glass] super smooth. I have observed this on dozens and dozens of games.

When I clear a field I rough up those inserts with high-grit paper, but not so high the plastic gets reflective. The clear makes that rough plastic surface optically clear and has some grippage.

This may not be the case for stern, but it is a known anomaly.

#126 4 years ago

Does GOT LE have the playfield problem?
Or is it just on the pro and premium?

#127 4 years ago
Quoted from JonH123:

Does GOT LE have the playfield problem?
Or is it just on the pro and premium?

Assumptions would be only pro and prem since LE's were produced before this entire mess started.

#128 4 years ago

I was thinking about buying a GOT premium, but i'm thinking I could avoid the whole mess and go with the LE.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from JonH123:

Does GOT LE have the playfield problem?
Or is it just on the pro and premium?

You have it backwards - numerous GB pro & GBLE's have documented issues. Very few problems are reported on GB prem, because Stern just started running them. The ghosting issue appears to be on any Stern coming out the factory, it is not limited to specific titles or models. I agree that the problem is likely caused by smooth inserts not grabbing and holding the clearcoat.

#130 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

You have it backwards - numerous GB pro & GBLE's have documented issues. Very few problems are reported on GB prem, because Stern just started running them. The ghosting issue appears to be on any Stern coming out the factory, it is not limited to specific titles or models. I agree that the problem is likely caused by smooth inserts not grabbing and holding the clearcoat.

He was talikg about Game of Thrones, not Ghostbusters.

And Stern hasn't started making the Premium Ghostbusters yet.

#131 4 years ago

Ghosting formed then cracking and dropping of the insert. Zoom in on this sucker and tell me you would buy this game... under 150 plays by the way.

20160728_211118_(resized).jpg

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#132 4 years ago

That is a shame.

#133 4 years ago

What model do you have John?

#134 4 years ago
Quoted from John1210:

Ghosting formed then cracking and dropping of the insert. Zoom in on this sucker and tell me you would buy this game... under 150 plays by the way.

holy mother of god what is the playfield build date?

#135 4 years ago
Quoted from John1210:

Ghosting formed then cracking and dropping of the insert. Zoom in on this sucker and tell me you would buy this game... under 150 plays by the way.

Yes, that's why the ghosting is more than a cosmetic issue. It'll crack and eventually chip off... one good airball will accelerate that process very quickly. Then the ball starts eating at the exposed cc edge and slowly removes the rest of the clear and art from the insert.

#136 4 years ago
Quoted from John1210:

Ghosting formed then cracking and dropping of the insert. Zoom in on this sucker and tell me you would buy this game... under 150 plays by the way.

So you can literally feel that the insert has dropped down a bit? If so then there's the issue... not the clear but that the inserts are sinking.

#137 4 years ago

GBLE here...and at around 500 plays my ghosting finally showed up.

20160801_225541_(resized).jpg

#138 4 years ago

So its just a matter of time, not if, Jar getting hit at 500 plays.

That's depressing.

#139 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

So you can literally feel that the insert has dropped down a bit? If so then there's the issue... not the clear but that the inserts are sinking.

You bet, pretty depressing hey. The insert has dropped considerably and another one is starting to and cracking is quite visibe and you can feel it. Simply not good enough

#140 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

GBLE here...and at around 500 plays my ghosting finally showed up.

Do you have any solution on how to fix this? We have a GBLE with 350 plays and ours is starting to do it as well. Is mylar an option to stop the clear coat from chipping??

#141 4 years ago

Its a gble. Build date is May 16. Please be aware before getting a game in the date range. This is new game with minimal games. Huo. The inserts have gotten worse and worse from simple normal huo.

#142 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

So its just a matter of time, not if, Jar getting hit at 500 plays.
That's depressing.

Just wait man .... i cancelled my order for now. Sucks not getting a le but the premium will play just fine lol and wont have to worry about the gb le woes

#143 4 years ago

If you check the 1st pic on my post you can see the clear cracking... looks like fish scales. Just imagine this pf after 1000 plays?

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Just wait man .... i cancelled my order for now. Sucks not getting a le but the premium will play just fine lol and wont have to worry about the gb le woes

I just sent an email asking them not to ship my GBLE. Ghosting, cracking and sinking inserts ain't good.

John's is the worst one I've seen yet.

#145 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Do you have any solution on how to fix this? We have a GBLE with 350 plays and ours is starting to do it as well. Is mylar an option?

No solution that I know of would do much. Either it's going to ghost or it's not. Seems like many just will.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

No solution that I know of would do much. Either it's going to ghost or it's not. Seems like many just will.

Thanks. I am a little disappointed about the ghosting. Sounds like it is going to get worse as time goes on. My wife loves GBLE. We will keep playing it and see what happens.

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I just sent an email asking them not to ship my GBLE. Ghosting, cracking and sinking inserts ain't good.
John's is the worst one I've seen yet.

Any that have the issue will only get worse with more and more play. I hope they get this figured out soon ....its just a bad situation for customers and stern alike

#148 4 years ago

If the inserts are sinking then the only current solution would be to reinforce the back side of the insert with more epoxy in hopes that the extra glue gives it more strength to stay in its current position. Just a thought. But the does that open the door for stern to say you modified the structure and voids warranty?

#149 4 years ago

Maybe Stern should send everybody one of these to help the curing process!

UV_Nail_Dryer_(resized).png

UV_Nail_Dryer_(resized).png

#150 4 years ago

Ugh, this is making me nervous. Debating about backing out of my GB LE..........

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