(Topic ID: 253293)

Resale value unrealistic?


By V8haha

4 months ago



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  • 51 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by underlord
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    #1 4 months ago

    I have talked to a lot of people in the industry and it seems the 2nd hand market has gotten extremely stale.

    With all the new machines coming out monthly it seems like the strong resale value of used machines have gotten soft.

    I must admit prices on used games seems silly. Seeing Metallica pros at 5k with wear makes me laugh. Do you find games are still selling?

    Are we finally seeing the fall of these crazy used valuation? Will be interesting to see what happens to the market during the next recession.

    #2 4 months ago

    I doubt it, but I’m not surprised to see games sit longer - for the reasons you described. There’s just so much coming out.

    The new games have lots of bells and whistles, but are not always as fun as the old games. JJP POTC is a huge exception - shoots super smooth, really fun, deep code, and while it could use some polish, is very complete already. I like how Elvira looks too, but the reviews are kind of in the middle

    That said, the old stalwarts are still as good as they ever were. Metallica is a great fun game, which is why it keeps its value.

    #3 4 months ago

    It's everyone trying to buy something new, so they drag up their prices on what they're trying to sell

    #4 4 months ago

    Nice try bubble bursting thread.... I can see through your disguise

    #6 4 months ago

    Another bubble bursting thread lol.

    #7 4 months ago

    The prices of 2nd hand pinball machines will probably go up in the next recession, only because the next one will be a stagflationary recession. Our dollar will be getting creamed,.

    #8 4 months ago

    When pin prices are high I ignore most of the market and focus on vids.

    Sure try and sell me a Demo Man for $3500........ LMFAO!!!

    Thanks
    Blake

    #9 4 months ago
    Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

    The prices of 2nd hand pinball machines will probably go up in the next recession, only because the next one will be a stagflationary recession.

    That is super bad news, I hope you are wrong

    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from V8haha:

    With all the new machines coming out monthly it seems like the strong resale value of used machines have gotten soft.

    I see with all the new turds coming out, the resale market of good older games getting stronger.

    #11 4 months ago

    Here we go again lol.

    A lot of things can influence the price of a game. An HUO Metallica Pro could go anywhere between $4500 - $5500 depending on location, condition, mods, etc. Some sellers list their games high and don't care if they sit for months until sold, others price them lower for a quick sale. If anything a nice HUO Metallica Pro at $5k sounds like a good deal compared to today's higher priced and even more stripped down pro's.

    When it comes to pricing games there isn't really a set price for any model due to the factors above.

    #12 4 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    An HUO Metallica Pro could go anywhere between $4500 - $5500 depending on location, condition, mods, etc.

    I had to drop my cherry MET Pro below $4500 to get it sold. I think the market is a bit soft but there are so many games out there people have options. I don't know about a bubble but its a bit of a buyers market right now.

    #13 4 months ago

    I can't wait until the bubble bursts on posting pricing bubble threads...

    #14 4 months ago
    Quoted from Coolpinballdino:

    Another bubble bursting thread lol.

    Paging crazylevi

    #15 4 months ago

    Not going to speak of the higher market ie 4k+, but the lower end sells fast.

    #16 4 months ago

    Prices of things always go up over time.

    As a seller, price the games right and they will sell.

    As a buyer, pay for what you feel is reasonable or wait for the next one.

    Why is this so complicated?

    #17 4 months ago

    No bubble bursting. But the market is slowing a bit for certain games.

    #18 4 months ago
    Quoted from V8haha:

    I have talked to a lot of people in the industry and it seems the 2nd hand market has gotten extremely stale.
    With all the new machines coming out monthly it seems like the strong resale value of used machines have gotten soft.
    I must admit prices on used games seems silly. Seeing Metallica pros at 5k with wear makes me laugh. Do you find games are still selling?
    Are we finally seeing the fall of these crazy used valuation? Will be interesting to see what happens to the market during the next recession.

    Actually I think you got it backwards.

    As more and more new games come out, with fewer and fewer people
    having the knowledge to fix them as they age, and replacement parts that are outrageously expensive, this makes older games more attractive.
    Also, with the large amount of newbies (first timers) that are purchasing games, this helps push up the resale value for older games, as there's limited
    supply available.

    example:They can make as many MMR's as they want, but there are only a limited supply of originals, and when there gone-there gone!

    #19 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    That is super bad news, I hope you are wrong

    he is, but lets say he is right, they will just sit forever, because no one will buy them

    #20 4 months ago

    New games aren’t entitled to value holding. They never were.

    Not every game is a classic or desired. If no one wants it, price drops.

    Good games get lots of units made. If they’re easy to find, price isn’t going to rise.

    Stern has often puts games back into production & the current scene of NIBNEWBS only buys new. They’d rather wait for a possible re-run than buy a used game.

    New games have had QC problems like bad clear coat. That’s prob turning away buyers who normally would buy used versions of current games.

    #21 4 months ago

    Don't worry guys crazylevi will be here soon to burst that bubble!

    #22 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    the current scene of NIBNEWBS only buys new. They’d rather wait for a possible re-run than buy a used game.

    I might resemble this remark.

    Time will tell if I start buying older games.

    #23 4 months ago

    There are also seasonal peaks and valleys in pinball sales:

    There are typically a lot of buyers around winter/Christmas time. Some people want projects and some are buying gifts for themselves.

    Around the coldest part of winter and early in the year, buying slows way down. People have spent their money over the holidays and tend to take a little break.

    When spring and early summer comes, sales get hot again. Summer projects for some, filling arcades and changing lineups for others.

    At the end of summer and early fall (like right now), they tend to slow down again. People are completing projects, some are prepping for the holidays, etc.

    This happens EVERY year.

    It obviously isn't inclusive to everyone, but it is enough of a trend to be quite noticeable.

    #24 4 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    There are also seasonal peaks and valleys in pinball sales:
    There are typically a lot of buyers around winter/Christmas time. Some people want projects and some are buying gifts for themselves.
    Around the coldest part of winter and early in the year, buying slows way down. People have spent their money over the holidays and tend to take a little break.
    When spring and early summer comes, sales get hot again. Summer projects for some, filling arcades and changing lineups for others.
    At the end of summer and early fall (like right now), they tend to slow down again. People are completing projects, some are prepping for the holidays, etc.
    This happens EVERY year.
    It obviously isn't inclusive to everyone, but it is enough of a trend to be quite noticeable.

    Problem with this is things are typically picking up right about now, but the higher end is not selling quickly. I am not complaining tbh. It is kinda a boon for me as it has allowed me to expand. I am currently eyeing a pair of machines, although it would require me to sell my avatar le to fund one of them.

    #25 4 months ago
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    #26 4 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    There are also seasonal peaks and valleys in pinball sales:
    There are typically a lot of buyers around winter/Christmas time. Some people want projects and some are buying gifts for themselves.
    Around the coldest part of winter and early in the year, buying slows way down. People have spent their money over the holidays and tend to take a little break.
    When spring and early summer comes, sales get hot again. Summer projects for some, filling arcades and changing lineups for others.
    At the end of summer and early fall (like right now), they tend to slow down again. People are completing projects, some are prepping for the holidays, etc.
    This happens EVERY year.
    It obviously isn't inclusive to everyone, but it is enough of a trend to be quite noticeable.

    What you just cited is basic retail sales seasonality. Pinball generally follows the same pattern.

    #27 4 months ago

    Just remember that Judge Dredd is a $1,400.00 game folks.

    #28 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rum-Z:

    Just remember that Judge Dredd is a $1,400.00 game folks.

    Doh!

    I've probably got close to $1400 in the color dmd and all the extra ramps and accessories alone.

    #29 4 months ago
    Quoted from Rum-Z:

    Just remember that Judge Dredd is a $1,400.00 game folks.

    Dang it went up! Used to be $800 all day long!

    #30 4 months ago

    I think recent games do take a hit. Sometimes a pretty good one. B/W games just seem to keep rising in value.

    But there’s a limit to the madness. I recently saw a very nice - but hardly perfect - Dr. Who with an asking price of something like $4,500. Seriously? A couple people were like “someone is going to get a nice machine!”. Um, yeah, and overpay by a grand.

    But I’m just bitter. Because I let my HUO FT go way too cheap.

    #32 4 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    I think recent games do take a hit. Sometimes a pretty good one. B/W games just seem to keep rising in value.
    But there’s a limit to the madness. I recently saw a very nice - but hardly perfect - Dr. Who with an asking price of something like $4,500. Seriously? A couple people were like “someone is going to get a nice machine!”. Um, yeah, and overpay by a grand.
    But I’m just bitter. Because I let my HUO FT go way too cheap.

    Told you 10k by Xmas for a minty FT was giving it away.

    #33 4 months ago
    Quoted from dung:

    Problem with this is things are typically picking up right about now, but the higher end is not selling quickly. I am not complaining tbh. It is kinda a boon for me as it has allowed me to expand. I am currently eyeing a pair of machines, although it would require me to sell my avatar le to fund one of them.

    Sell it! AVLE is a turd with its solid cc’d pf, extra ceramic ball mode, moving Hunter, etc. pffft. Awesome is so 2018.

    #34 4 months ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Told you 10k by Xmas for a minty FT was giving it away.

    You were right!

    #35 4 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    But there’s a limit to the madness. I recently saw a very nice - but hardly perfect - Dr. Who with an asking price of something like $4,500. Seriously? A couple people were like “someone is going to get a nice machine!”. Um, yeah, and overpay by a grand.

    The used market is going to be relative to the new market. When the cheapest Stern Pro is like $6k, and the full featured games are $8k-$15k, the classics are gonna go up, cuz “cheap” is relative. When new Sterns were $4k, Dr. Who was $1500-$2000.

    #36 4 months ago

    The market is soft for expensive games that aren't that hard to find. Indy 500 and Corvette come to mind for William's titles. Any stern from 2000 on also comes to mind. Games that are difficult to find still sell quickly for primo prices.

    #37 4 months ago
    Quoted from LukyDuck:

    I might resemble this remark.
    Time will tell if I start buying older games.

    I definitely resemble this. Two years ago when I finally decided to buy a game, I wanted a machine that I loved to play in the "old days", so I got an MMr (mainly because it was fun, what I knew, and readily available). Then as I started looking for the next one, I was focused on other familiar machines...games that I had played and loved. But once I started playing current machines, I enjoyed them just as much or more than the B/W staples from my past.

    Without being able to buy every game available, I had to decide whether to get another nostalgic game or one that I could explore, just like I did those in the 90's. It was pricing that really made my decision. Something I already knew, or for just a little more (ok...maybe more than a little), get something fresh.

    Thankfully, I haven't had any playfield / cabinet / electronic problems that I've seen on some threads with my games. Then again, I haven't combed every inch looking for them. If I do decide to buy an older game, it would probably be by rotating out the MMr and creating a single "nostalgia" slot in the game room.

    #38 4 months ago

    I don’t know this world anymore. I’m out.

    3EFA2D75-2C34-495C-9ABF-7F0F827769C6.gif
    #39 4 months ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Sell it! AVLE is a turd with its solid cc’d pf, extra ceramic ball mode, moving Hunter, etc. pffft. Awesome is so 2018.

    Lol, have you not looked at my collection? Motivation to sell would be to pick up something rarer/more obscure.

    #40 4 months ago
    Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

    The prices of 2nd hand pinball machines will probably go up in the next recession, only because the next one will be a stagflationary recession. Our dollar will be getting creamed,.

    Stagflation? Stating a fact steering clear of political bias ... if this statement were true then pin prices would've shown some what of price reduction during the last administration. In all fairness excluding the inflation rate piece of the 3 actual elements of stagflation. Unemployment was steadily high and economic growth was point blank stagnant. Those two alone should've sent waves through the pin market... and didnt.
    Pinball is just popular.... as in becoming more popular than ever. I also feel his alone answers the other (repetitive) question of "With the market being flooded will it affect prices". No. I feel like we're in a weird time where it appears "supply vs demand" is weirdly out of whack. As user Rarehero mentioned earlier "cheap is now subjective".
    The only "bubble burst" that's going to happen is if a "long lasting" full blown recession happens .... as in and all 3 elements of stagflation in effect. At that point most people won't be able to afford buying a luxury item let alone be wanting too anyway.

    #41 4 months ago

    My last post started getting wordy. Would like to point out something I strongly believe in.
    Also, the people who compare pinball to arcades I disagree with. Arcades were replaced with video games which provided a much better looking and immersive experience. AKA a replacment. There is NO "better" replacement for pinball. As long as the manufacturers keep jacking new prices up, the used market will follow suit.

    #42 4 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    subjective".
    The only "bubble burst" that's going to happen is if a "long lasting" full blown recession happens .... as in and all 3 elements of stagflation in effect. At that point most people won't be able to afford buying a luxury item let alone be wanting too anyway.

    After the last recession, Stern almost went under - but, the hobby & prices of classic games just kept going up. The collectors were able to hold their games & didn’t blow them out. The new games by new factories will be affected by a recession....but the old games will be fine.

    #43 4 months ago
    Quoted from CLEllison:

    My last post started getting wordy. Would like to point out something I strongly believe in.
    Also, the people who compare pinball to arcades I disagree with. Arcades were replaced with video games which provided a much better looking and immersive experience. AKA a replacment. There is NO "better" replacement for pinball. As long as the manufacturers keep jacking new prices up, the used market will follow suit.

    People also use emulators (like raspberry pi) on arcades. It has not only replaced done people searching for rare and/or expensive arcades, but it had also replaced a lot of people buying several arcades...since they can have it all in one. They tried it with virtual pinball, but it is no where near the same.

    #44 4 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    People also use emulators (like raspberry pi) on arcades. It has not only replaced done people searching for rare and/or expensive arcades, but it had also replaced a lot of people buying several arcades...since they can have it all in one. They tried it with virtual pinball, but it is no where near the same.

    Arcade games have their place and the newer emulators actually enhance the experience when playing, but that doesn't apply to pinball for me; when I'm playing a pin all my tactile senses are involved, immersed to the point I feel a part of the game I'm playing. I don't get that from arcade games or emulators whether it's pinball or games I always feel detached, viewing whats taking place but not a part of it, if that makes sense.

    #45 4 months ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Don't worry guys crazylevi will be here soon to burst that bubble!

    im sure we all can't wait!

    -1
    #46 4 months ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Arcade games have their place and the newer emulators actually enhance the experience when playing, but that doesn't apply to pinball for me; when I'm playing a pin all my tactile senses are involved, immersed to the point I feel a part of the game I'm playing. I don't get that from arcade games or emulators whether it's pinball or games I always feel detached, viewing whats taking place but not a part of it, if that makes sense.

    Your an analog guy in a digital world.

    #47 4 months ago

    I’m just seeing a lot of games sit and owners using the excuse i have X into this game i can’t sell it for less.

    Everyone is convinced that they need to make a profit off of every game they buy.

    I think this concept is silly older games yes but seeing a Standard Dialed in at 8,000 Firm just cracks me up.

    I’m a firm believer that something used looses 20% over new.I guess I’m rare

    #48 4 months ago

    I guess the real difference is in the past people posted stuff for sale because they wanted to sell.

    Now people post things for sale to see who’s willing to break the high price record.

    To each their own

    #49 4 months ago
    Quoted from V8haha:

    I guess the real difference is in the past people posted stuff for sale because they wanted to sell.
    Now people post things for sale to see who’s willing to break the high price record.
    To each their own

    Why do people keep posting this shit? A game will sell for what people are willing to pay for it. Continually posting these threads is beyond stupid. It doesn't matter what the game is, the market will determine the sale or it will sit. This has become such a broken record, yet people keep posting this garbage.

    #50 4 months ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Your an analog guy in a digital world.

    True, but I wear that badge proudly. I can't imagine having half life's experiences in my back pocket.

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