(Topic ID: 241913)

Will pinball prices come down

By Bigbad

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Dr-pin
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    There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
    -11
    #1 4 years ago

    Does anyone think that pinball prices are going to drop significantly? Maybe not new games but older games? With a recession around the corner and company’s Banging out machines will 1980’s and older games go for cheap? Just wondering about people’s thoughts on this.

    26
    #2 4 years ago

    Yep, all those games will be available for pennies when the bubble bursts, just like the last 5,323 times someone made an identical thread online over the past 20 years.

    So bide your time.

    11
    #3 4 years ago

    Ask a different question. WHY would pinball prices come down?

    Is there market pressure to lower prices? I don't think so. Demand keeps rising and the secondary market prices have a tight relationship with NIB prices.

    Are there any recent development or manufacturing leaps that significantly reduce the effort/time/cost to market? Probably not.

    10
    #4 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Ask a different question. WHY would pinball prices come down?
    Is there market pressure to lower prices? I don't think so. Demand keeps rising and the secondary market prices have a tight relationship with NIB prices.
    Are there any recent development or manufacturing leaps that significantly reduce the effort/time/cost to market? Probably not.

    The logic is always the same. "There are a lot of games being made and prices are higher than I want them to be."

    And then 3 years later prices and demand are higher.

    THe hoped-for recession likely won't help either. During the last recession prices didn't drop, people just held on to their stuff like the hoarding bastards pinball people are.

    A full-on economic apocalypse is a different story but in that case we'd all have far bigger problems than expanding our pinball collections.

    #5 4 years ago

    I think the next time the economy goes into the toilet you'll see people dumping machines on the market to pay the mortgage. Excess supply and less demand will force prices down.

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yep, all those games will be available for pennies when the bubble bursts, just like the last 5,323 times someone made an identical thread online over the past 20 years.
    So bide your time.

    Thanks for the great advice! Your a real gem! Lol

    #7 4 years ago

    What pending recession? Like Levi said, the last recession did not see prices fall. They continued to go up.

    -4
    #8 4 years ago

    Have to keep in mind that we havnt had a recession since games were cheaper economy has just been continuously expanding. With economists predicting recesssion around the corner I would like to think that we are about to see older game prices drop

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    Have to keep in mind that we havnt had a recession since games were cheaper economy has just been continuously expanding. With economists predicting recesssion around the corner I would like to think that we are about to see older game prices drop

    And I would like to think I'll start pooping out $100 bills but sometimes wishful thinking just ain't enough.

    Going by the past 20 years there's little reason to think your hoped-for scenario will happen any time soon. Older games have been RISING in price just as much as newer stuff, if not faster. Except for EMs.

    Buy cheap EMs to your heart's content, TODAY, you don't even have to wait for the economic melt down.

    13
    #10 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    With a recession around the corner

    Did you earn your Ph.D. in Economic Forecasting at Chicken Little University?

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    And I would like to think I'll start pooping out $100 bills but sometimes wishful thinking just ain't enough.

    You are what you eat

    #12 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    Have to keep in mind that we havnt had a recession since games were cheaper economy has just been continuously expanding. With economists predicting recesssion around the corner I would like to think that we are about to see older game prices drop

    but why would older game prices go down?

    Those are:
    #1 already cheaper games
    if people need money due to a recession then they are selling the most expensive ones and modern ones first
    #2 already very limited and nearly dried up in colelctions
    i.e. supply is limited and deals are largely gone
    #3 they aint making more of them and more people want them.

    If a recession happens then the games that will take a beating are everything 5k and greater that is less than 5 years old.
    Supply is high, cost is high, and people will try to sell the easiest thing that they can get rid of the quickest (i.e. newer games)

    10
    #13 4 years ago

    Start the trend. List your games at 50 percent of market and watch the others follow.

    #14 4 years ago

    Ill go agaisnt the grain and agree with you, the recession IS around the corner, i see it everywhere, we are overbuilding like crazy again and houses are struggling to get sold now, new apartment complexes are hard to fill up, prixlces are dropping. The fed sees it coming too. Same shit, different decade

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Did you earn your Ph.D. in Economic Forecasting at Chicken Little University?

    No but I watch the news. Or do you foresee a record breaking economic growth pattern? If so please share. I encourage you to please share your knowledge with the class.

    #16 4 years ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    Ill go agaisnt the grain and agree with you, the recession IS around the corner, i see it everywhere, we are overbuilding like crazy again and houses are struggling to get sold now, new apartment complexes are hard to fill up, prixlces are dropping. The fed sees it coming too. Same shit, different decade

    But this isn't a recession prediction thread, it's a "bubble will burst!" thread like thousands before it.

    We'll grant you for argument's sake that there will soon be a recession, and we'll all be on soup lines and living in tents, foraging at night for scraps and fighting our neighbors to the death for moldy fruit and old school CRT color TVs. Why would that cause a decline in pinball prices when the previous recession of 2007-2009 didn't?

    17
    #17 4 years ago

    This question has come up every 6 months since I've been in the hobby now 23 years. Let me see if I can find that one from around 2002...oh here we go...

    "$1,100 for a Fish Tales?!?!? Are you f'n serious??? These prices better start coming down or this hobby and everyone in it is doomed. This is NOTHING but a rich man's hobby!"

    ...and yet here we are.

    #18 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    we'll all be on soup lines and living in tents, foraging at night for scraps and fighting our neighbors to the death for moldy fruit and old school CRT color TVs.

    Hilarious . . . till its true. But, don't economic crashes lead to hyper-inflation? NIB LE's would be like 60k.

    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    Does anyone think that pinball prices are going to drop significantly?

    Maybe not new games but older games?

    With a recession around the corner and company’s Banging out machines will 1980’s and older games go for cheap?

    No. Who cares if they do?
    No. Who cares if they do?
    Everything is "around the corner". Fear is not real. It's a manmade description to help man explain and describe of the abstract future.
    Companies "banging out machines" is nothing new. Change is the only thing that never changes. Never.

    Do what makes you happy without harming others.

    61
    #20 4 years ago

    I love how every economic genius thinks they are the first ones to be right about the pinball market collapse being right around the corner:

    2000:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J

    2001:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ

    2002:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ

    2003:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ

    2004:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ

    2005:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J

    2006:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ

    2007:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ

    2008:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ

    2009:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ

    2010:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ

    2011:
    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ

    2012:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again

    2013:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop

    2014:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble

    2015:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball

    2016:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst

    2017:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble

    2018:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet

    2019:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-

    #21 4 years ago

    I like to play the this same guessing game at red lights, I like to predict when the light will turn green, I run the light about 90% of the time, but the 10% I guess correctly I look like a top fuel dragster way out in front of the pack! Yet they all catch up to me at the next one.

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The logic is always the same. "There are a lot of games being made and prices are higher than I want them to be."
    And then 3 years later prices and demand are higher.
    THe hoped-for recession likely won't help either. During the last recession prices didn't drop, people just held on to their stuff like the hoarding bastards pinball people are.
    A full-on economic apocalypse is a different story but in that case we'd all have far bigger problems than expanding our pinball collections.

    Lower end games are not coming down, but new games are certainly losing a chunk of change after they get released. that wasn't the case in the past. It seems like there are too many games coming out for the market to support long term. In the past you could buy something, play it for a few months and then sell for a slight loss. Now you are looking at 1-2k within 6 months on some games. People who used to burn through new ones are going to end up slowing down. Will be interesting to see what happens down the road.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    During the last recession prices didn't drop, people just held on to their stuff like the hoarding bastards pinball people are.

    This made me laugh because of the hoarding comment!

    #24 4 years ago

    I think the sale is coming tomorrow is what I heard.

    #25 4 years ago

    This RGP Post from 2000 is gold! He was probably complaining about a $900 or T2 or a $2000 AFM.

    --------------------
    Hey all-

    Having been following the rgp for almost 2 years now..

    I can safely say I've never seen such ridiculous price inflation since I
    started collecting.

    What's worse is that it seems to get worse every day..

    My question to the group is, is this ever going to stop? What do you guys
    think?

    I've got about 2-3 pins I'd like to eventually add to my "keep" collection.
    I've had two reoccurring thoughts:

    #1) Man, with prices going through the roof, I'll never be able to afford
    what I want in a few years better bite the bullet now and get them before I
    can no longer afford them..(never mind I have no space for them!)

    #2) These prices are absurd, reality is gonna have to set back in, and in a
    few years, I can hopefully get the pins I want for better prices than
    during this craze (which i'm hoping would end)..

    What do you guys think about this situation?

    Any/all comments welcome..

    --
    Thanks-
    Steve
    [email protected] (Remove "nospam" from email address)

    #26 4 years ago

    Prices fluctuate up, down, up, down, etc... Over time they tend to fluctuate more up than down as inflation increases and all of that jazz...

    At the end of the day, the market dictates the pricing and so long as the market is willing to pay more, prices will increase. Sure, at some point the bubble will pop and prices will fall but that'll be temporary and then they'll start to rise again and so on and so forth...

    That's pretty much how economics works in general...

    Jeff

    #27 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    THe hoped-for recession likely won't help either. During the last recession prices didn't drop, people just held on to their stuff like the hoarding bastards pinball people are.

    My experience in late 2008 and through 2009 was different, picked up a number of deals that were certainly well below market prices and available to anyone that wanted them. It was probably the last time I bought any pin on ebay. Also, it was the only time I can recall being contacted and offered games by people that simply needed to raise cash and had no interest in buying another pin. It was short lived though, prices picked back up quickly and treated the recession like some sort of speed bump.

    #28 4 years ago

    Before buying a dream game: "Prices will go down!"
    After buying a dream game: "I hope prices don't go down!!"

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    Does anyone think that pinball prices are going to drop significantly? Maybe not new games but older games? With a recession around the corner and company’s Banging out machines will 1980’s and older games go for cheap? Just wondering about people’s thoughts on this.

    LOL a recession has been around the corner since 2013. 80s and 90s DMD will hold there own post 2000 DMD will see a drop in price with the new LCD games being the new top games

    #30 4 years ago
    Quoted from Bigbad:

    Have to keep in mind that we havnt had a recession since games were cheaper economy has just been continuously expanding. With economists predicting recesssion around the corner I would like to think that we are about to see older game prices drop

    I listen to the news as well and have been hearing about the recession around the corner for many years now. We would all be millionaires if we could accurately predict the market. Same for predicting the pinball market. It was supposed to collapse years ago but keeps getting stronger. Stern was going to have "dark nights". Things will obviously change but doubt you are going to see guys selling pins to pay off mortgages. If you are that tight, you probably shouldn't buy pins to start with. Like what we see today, the high end market will be affected the most. NIB games might depreciate more but doubt much will change with classics. They are getting older, harder to find, and held onto tight by collectors. Collectors will still pay good money for the right games.

    #31 4 years ago

    If there is another economic crash causing people to dump their games at below asking price, then by your logic there won't be anyone able to purchase said games because they too will be struggling to pay bills and spending $$$$ on a luxury device will be last thing on their minds. In actuality during times of economic depression, people forgo excessive external purchases and look to the home for fun, cheap thrills. If anything people will most likely sit on thier current collections. I'd be more worried if I was a manufacturer.

    #32 4 years ago

    It definitely is Mind Boggling to see prices the way they are. Yes some people are asking stupid prices, not selling, but some inflated prices game are selling.

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    If there is another economic crash causing people to dump their games at below asking price, then by your logic there won't be anyone able to purchase said games because they too will be struggling to pay bills and spending $$$$ on a luxury device will be last thing on their minds. In actuality during times of economic depression, people forgo excessive external purchases and look to the home for fun, cheap thrills. If anything people will most likely sit on thier current collections. I'd be more worried if I was a manufacturer.

    Yeah it's pretty funny that people who can't afford games at current prices think an economic meltdown, the likes we haven't seen since the 1920s, is somehow gonna help them build a pinball machine collection.

    You'll be stealing week old bread to feed your family!!!!

    10
    #34 4 years ago

    Recession? No, I don't think that's going to be the 'bubble buster' of pinball prices (which assumes that prices are on a bubble to begin with - to which I disagree). What's really going to kill the market is when all the older collectors like myself have died and gone to that big arcade in the sky. Once the folks who are in their 40's, 50's and 60's all pass away - then sure, I can see a huge downward trend in prices. So just give it another 30 years or so - then scoop up all the bargains!

    #35 4 years ago

    Even funnier that no one complains about the same if not higher percentage wise increase in food, gas, and energy prices...

    But muh pinballz!

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from Xenon75:

    the last recession did not see prices fall

    The last recession couldn’t penetrate old money collections built from cheap game prices...why sell a champ pub you picked up for $700?

    Swaths of new money lining their walls with $10k Sterns hasn’t been seen before.

    Time will tell...

    #37 4 years ago

    This thread is useless without an inflation calculator!!!

    #38 4 years ago

    A recession with 3.8% unemployment rate???

    Talk to me about an oncoming recession when we are at a 5% unemployment rate.

    More fake news.

    #39 4 years ago

    I don't think the economy or a recession is going to cause a decline in pinball pricing. I do think prices will fall in the years ahead as people just age out. I think the industry is just too slow to acquire the next generation. They need to get on the marketing wave and learn to sell when the iron is hot. It baffles me how pinballs are constantly released so out of touch with current trends.

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from SunKing:

    Recession? No, I don't think that's going to be the 'bubble buster' of pinball prices (which assumes that prices are on a bubble to begin with - to which I disagree). What's really going to kill the market is when all the older collectors like myself have died and gone to that big arcade in the sky. Once the folks who are in their 40's, 50's and 60's all pass away - then sure, I can see a huge downward trend in prices. So just give it another 30 years or so - then scoop up all the bargains!

    I think you are right - maybe.

    However, in 20 - 30 years the pinball buyer/player MAY or MAY NOT be smaller than it is now. For the next 10+ years I would say it will continue to grow and thrive and the prices will be 'high'. It is yet to be seen if pinball will eventually go back to down as demand wains. But who is to say for sure. I don't expect a pinball market free fall any time soon.

    I find those that have the means for a collection before the rescission will be a bit better off than those that don't. And, if it hits the fan I will probably find other possessions to liquidate before I dip into selling pinball machines for pennies on the dollar.

    I guess my point is like many others - this hobby has gotten more expensive over the last 20 years as it's popularity has grown. Buy accordingly...or wait...whatever

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I don't think the economy or a recession is going to cause a decline in pinball pricing. I do think prices will fall in the years ahead as people just age out. I think the industry is just too slow to acquire the next generation. They need to get on the marketing wave and learn to sell when the iron is hot. It baffles me how pinballs are constantly released so out of touch with current trends.

    Did you try to wade through the wreckage of the threads I posted from 2000-2019?

    People have been saying that for literally 20 years. Yet a new generation of players and collectors HAS stepped up. The hobby is supposed to be dead now that all of the guys in their 40s and 50s twenty years ago are at retirement age.

    #42 4 years ago

    I doubt it NIB Market has gone up to. I bought a NIB game awhile back. Sold it at a slight profit after the prices spiked up.
    Person buying that game was pleased as punch with all the extras they got with it. I was glad to get my Mod money back +
    a little extra and no one felt ripped off.

    I think the days of the 2000 DMD are long gone. Will they be back. Think by the time I am ready to retire they are.

    I'm also bringing up a bunch of Pinball enthusiast now to. 3 kiddos that will possibly sell or hoard my games if I don't
    sell them at retirement.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Did you try to wade through the wreckage of the threads I posted from 2000-2019?

    Cmon man, you know nobody has time for that around here

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Did you try to wade through the wreckage of the threads I posted from 2000-2019?
    People have been saying that for literally 20 years. Yet a new generation of players and collectors HAS stepped up. The hobby is supposed to be dead now that all of the guys in their 40s and 50s twenty years ago are at retirement age.

    Retirement is a great time for pinball, people focus even more on it. I'm not talking about bringing in 40 year old guys today. You do see more pins in barcades and things like that and we have seen a small increase in the 20 year old crowd. There is not enough of them to take over the current collector market. Very few of that 20s crowd are buying pins. I think as the current retired collectors start to die out prices will fall. The current 30-40 pin demographic chases new pins. As much as pinside loves Willy Wonka and Black Knight, having an Avengers End Game in barcades today would create way more growth.

    #45 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    Very few of that 20s crowd are buying pins. I think as the current retired collectors start to die out prices will fall. The current 30-40 pin demographic chases new pins.

    Right. But plenty of 30s crowd ARE buying pins.

    Guess what the 20s crowd will be in 10 years?

    They'll be in their 30s and they'll be buying pins. They are playing pinball right now, they just aren't buying.

    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Right. But plenty of 30s crowd ARE buying pins.
    Guess what the 20s crowd will be in 10 years?
    They'll be in their 30s and they'll be buying pins. They are playing pinball right now, they just aren't buying.

    You are assuming that a large majority of 20 something's have a nostalgia for pinball. They don't. I am 32 and grew up playing pins on location, but they died out while I was growing up. By the time I hit 8th grade location play was gone. It wasn't till I started collecting and you hit the resurgence with barcades did it come back and even then its pretty dependent on the local collector community for location support.

    This means that you have a cut off point where the majority of people will not have exposure to pins on a regular basis which in turn will breed less willing new bodies to join in the hobby. You also have older generations aging out of ownership. It will take awhile, but like with all hobbies eventually everyone ages out so no the 20s crowd is not going to be as big as the 30s crowd is or the 40s crowd is simply because the games weren't around.

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from dung:

    You are assuming that a large majority of 20 something's have a nostalgia for pinball. They don't. I am 32 and grew up playing pins on location, but they died out while I was growing up. By the time I hit 8th grade location play was gone. It wasn't till I started collecting and you hit the resurgence with barcades did it come back and even then its pretty dependent on the local collector community for location support.
    This means that you have a cut off point where the majority of people will not have exposure to pins on a regular basis which in turn will breed less willing new bodies to join in the hobby. You also have older generations aging out of ownership. It will take awhile, but like with all hobbies eventually everyone ages out so no the 20s crowd is not going to be as big as the 30s crowd is or the 40s crowd is simply because the games weren't around.

    This is the point I was trying to make, they need pins in the wild that the young crowd want to play, that will give them nostalgia in 20 years. Are they really going to pay top dollar for the Munsters or Willy Wonka, they wont even know what that is.

    #48 4 years ago

    Honestly, the age of the vast majority of people in my local pinball circle 100+ are of all different ages, mostly 20ish to 60ish. MOST of those people own at least one machine, or play regularly at a location within 100 mile radius. The future of competitive pinball is strong. From 2006-2019 the growth has increased from around 500 active players to roughly 55,000 active players in 2017. So, from a competitive angle, that's a 100x increase in popularity. Those #'s are very generic but after helping run a league, having machines on location, streaming, seeing a huge price increase on used machines, and supporting so many new shows, I can confirm it's a LOT more popular... Not 100 times but at least 50 times more popular than it was in 05. In 2005, I could count on one hand the number of people I knew that owned more than 1 machine and there were 2 locations in my ENTIRE STATE that had more than 5 machines on location. Now there are 35+ locations in my state with 5+ machines. Back in the early 90's there were more locations with more machines BUT we didn't have social media or Pinside back then!

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from SunKing:

    Recession? No, I don't think that's going to be the 'bubble buster' of pinball prices (which assumes that prices are on a bubble to begin with - to which I disagree). What's really going to kill the market is when all the older collectors like myself have died and gone to that big arcade in the sky. Once the folks who are in their 40's, 50's and 60's all pass away - then sure, I can see a huge downward trend in prices. So just give it another 30 years or so - then scoop up all the bargains!

    When I’m 50 - all of your collections will belong to me! Mwhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahah!

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    This is the point I was trying to make, they need pins in the wild that the young crowd want to play, that will give them nostalgia in 20 years. Are they really going to pay top dollar for the Munsters or Willy Wonka, they wont even know what that is.

    You guys need to get out of the house more.

    Plenty of 20s people playing pinball and it has ZERO to do with nostalgia. Pinball is in bars now, that’s the primary location. People in their 20s are at bars.

    In 10 years they’ll be buying games.

    You guys are wrong just like the last 20 years worth of naysayers. Those 20 years of pinball pricing bubble threads are full of comments just like yours.

    There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.

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