(Topic ID: 78982)

Operating pins on location..grab the Novus & soldering iron

By mikedetroit

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by hocuslocus
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    There are 518 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 11.
    #251 9 years ago
    Quoted from Gov:

    I have my JD on location and for the first month I had the deadworld installed. I NEVER had a problem with it at home, but at the store I had countless problems with the game losing track of the balls with it installed. After my 5 trip up to the store to fix it, I took off the deadworld mod and went back to stock. Not one issue since.

    I was hoping for someone to talk me out potentially wasting time by adjusting it to make it work correctly at home. You did that quite well fine sir. Thank you!

    #252 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Should I just go without it? Seems like it will be more trouble than it is worth.

    If you are having any trouble at all with it at home, you DO NOT want it when the game is on location. Little problems at home become huge problems when a game is on location.

    #253 9 years ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    If you are having any trouble at all with it at home, you DO NOT want it when the game is on location. Little problems at home become huge problems when a game is on location.

    Yes makes a lot of sense. I had read a lot of "once you get it adjusted properly, it works 100%" comments. But I was rightly skeptical, so I won't even bother.

    #254 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Yes makes a lot of sense. I had read a lot of "once you get it adjusted properly, it works 100%" comments. But I was rightly skeptical, so I won't even bother.

    It does work great, but it seems there is some issues with the code that after 40-50 games it starts losing track of the balls. If I reset the game the problems went away for another 40-50 games. Most people don't play Dredd 40+ times in a home environment without turning the game off before that.

    #255 9 years ago

    Debating future game purchases to clean up and put on location and looking for advice.

    I am not an operator per se but rotate some of my games through a single spot so I need to find games that I like but also may do well on location for a bit of time.

    Games on my short list are typically 2k or less, B/W DMD, or sys11, or oddball stuff that is not seen as often. I would say our location players are 50% regular pinheads and 50% casual players. My preference is to stick with cheaper games as they fit my budget and I woudl rather rotate in more games on a more regular basis than buy expensive/new Stern pro games and keep them there for much longer.

    Games I am contemplating seeking out include:
    ANY sys 11
    Baywatch
    Corvette
    Dirty Harry
    T2
    DemoMan
    SST
    WCS
    LAH
    Godzilla
    VND

    What do you operators say?

    Anything that sticks out as good bang for the buck for operating purposes?
    Anything I should add or remove from my short list?

    #256 9 years ago

    I have yet to meet a person, soccer fan or not that doesn't have fun playing WCS. One thing I will say though, is that game shines with LED's and is an attention grabber. However with regular bulbs it does look dated. I am possibly going to be putting a WCS at my location soon. Baywatch would get people to play for the novelty of it and looks to be a fun game.

    #257 9 years ago

    anyone else with advice

    #258 9 years ago

    Baywatch is a good game, but it uses a large DMD (that you can't find anywhere for less than $500). Also be prepared to make some plastics for it as this game likes to chew up plastics. Terminator 2 may be your best all-around choice. Not really a deep game, but that makes it accessible.

    #259 9 years ago

    Thanks for the tip Crash.

    Has anyone made any cheat sheets to put out by the pins to try and help give a quick and dirty explaination of goals?

    I have found that when I am there and spend some time explaining a ruleset to someone then they typically "get it" and have a better time playing.

    #260 9 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Has anyone made any cheat sheets to put out by the pins to try and help give a quick and dirty explaination of goals?

    Not quite the same thing, but the Silver Ball museum has signs printed up and posted above some of their games telling history and features of the game. Check out pictures of their place.

    Maybe something like that ?

    LTG : )™

    #261 9 years ago

    I've often wondered if a tournament system more advanced than TOPS would help location games - as it stands I think the system is obscure and confusing to players. Ideally you'd be able to register and check standings online and on the display on location (would love to see JJP take advantage of the LCD for this with the Hobbit).

    #262 9 years ago

    I printed out basic rules about playing pinball machines and have them sitting near the games. I googled and found some information and made my own and this is what I came up with. Now that I read it, I would take out some of the wording, but it might help you out and you could use it as a basic idea.

    HOW TO PLAY PINBALL LIKE A PRO

    •Watch and listen to the game. Machines today give the player lots of instructions, yet some beginner players don't realize this and this miss easy hints from the game. So while you are playing, look at and listen to the machine.

    o"Look at" mostly means watching the display. Most games from roughly 1990 onward will tell the player what they need to do next. Keep an eye also on the playfield lights: often if you don't know what you are doing, just hitting a target with a flashing light in front of it will do something.

    o"Listen to" Pinball machines have had speech since the late 70s, and will verbally tell the the player in certain ways. Start listening to the sounds games make in conjunction with the things they do and you'll start to get the connection. And this isn't trivial: often the sound is meant to tell you something like, "Hey, I'm about to kick the ball at you really hard: be ready!"

    •Master the basics of flipping. While there will always be an element of chaos in pinball, in truth, very few balls that come down the playing field are completely out of the player's control. This is the key area which determines a player's skill level: bringing the ball under control. There are many advanced tricks, but for now let's address the basics:

    oDon't flip both flippers. Flip only the flipper that you need to. Flipping both will actually sometimes cause the player to "drain" (lose the ball) when they didn't need to.

    oAfter you've flipped, drop the flipper back down immediately. Leaving it up leaves a nice big gap for the ball to fall between.

    oIn general, don't flip any more than you need to. And as you'll discover, that's way less than you might at first think. Once you've got that down, you'll notice that if you hold the flipper up at the right time, you can bring the ball to a dead stop. Great! You've learned how to "catch" the ball. This is a critical element of good play. Catching the ball lets you both stop and think of what shot you want to try to take next and aim carefully for it. And for all players, it lets you stop and take a quick drink or answer your cell phone if you're careful.

    oSome machines have more than two flippers. Before you start, be sure to look over the entire machine to find all of the flippers, so that you're ready when the ball is near any of them. Some machines have more than one plunger. Some have a gun or other type of auto-launch mechanism that, at times, will come into play for reasons other than just getting the ball onto the field.

    •Learn the skill shot. Most pinball machines have some sort of skill shot, which is basically a bonus earned by releasing the ball with a particular strength or shooting a specific target, ramp or loop immediately after releasing the ball.

    •Get good at aiming. You've now gotten to the point where you can bring the ball to a stop consistently and you're learning about what shots you want to try for. Excellent. Now you need to learn how to hit them consistently. The most important rule for aiming is simply that the closer to the tip the ball is, the more to the opposite side it will go. So, for example, let's say you're holding the ball on the left flipper. You drop the flipper and let the ball roll down. If you flip again quickly, you'll send the ball more to the left. If you let the boll roll down a little more towards the tip of the flipper, the more you'll send the ball to the right.

    •Nudge and tilt. Don't be shy: a certain amount of nudging is considered perfectly fair play, and done right, can often save a ball that might have otherwise been lost.

    o Even more than aiming, when and how to nudge is an art form. Even among the experts, no two players approach this with the same philosophy. Some are aggressive, some passive, some judicious, and some wild. What is important is simply to remember that machines do have tilt sensors, and if you tilt, not only does your ball end, but in most games you will lose any end-of-ball bonus points that you might have accumulated; in some cases, this bonus can be enormous.

    o Most modern games will also warn you that you are playing too hard. Take the warnings seriously. The way that tilt bobs work, sometimes the moment you get the first warning you are already doomed, since the tilt bob will keep bouncing back and forth and hitting its surrounding ring even if you stopped touching the machine entirely. More often, though, you'll get your warnings, which build up over the course of the ball. Two to three tilt warnings is usually the default.

    •Enjoy it. Mostly importantly, the object of pinball is ultimately to have fun. Pinball is awfully fun when you're playing well. When you're not, or when the game just isn't being nice to you, it can get highly frustrating. Learn early on when to chalk it up to a spat of bad luck and keep on trucking.

    #263 9 years ago

    Great topic. About 6 months ago I decided to work toward bring pinball back in my city. I have three of my tables in a buddies back room at his restaurant. Now dubbed the pinball room, it is taking off slowly. Games are fifty cents and he takes 25% which is how I can still run them at .50. I'm there quite often fixing things, but I'm there anyways so I stay on top of them constantly and I love my wax. Just had a buddy finish our flyer today..check it out..image.jpgimage.jpg

    #264 9 years ago

    Great stuff Mike and thanks for sharing!!!

    #265 9 years ago

    Great post about the basic rules. After observing people playing I was thinking of doing something similar.
    image-333.jpgimage-333.jpg// Error: Image 279404 not found //

    #266 9 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Debating future game purchases to clean up and put on location and looking for advice.
    I am not an operator per se but rotate some of my games through a single spot so I need to find games that I like but also may do well on location for a bit of time.
    Games on my short list are typically 2k or less, B/W DMD, or sys11, or oddball stuff that is not seen as often. I would say our location players are 50% regular pinheads and 50% casual players. My preference is to stick with cheaper games as they fit my budget and I woudl rather rotate in more games on a more regular basis than buy expensive/new Stern pro games and keep them there for much longer.
    Games I am contemplating seeking out include:
    ANY sys 11
    Baywatch
    Corvette
    Dirty Harry
    T2
    DemoMan
    SST
    WCS
    LAH
    Godzilla
    VND
    What do you operators say?
    Anything that sticks out as good bang for the buck for operating purposes?
    Anything I should add or remove from my short list?

    You have a good list there for sure. I try and stick with williams or Bally from the early 90's and somewhat similar parts that way keeping a "basic" inventory is easier. I am still on the fence about keeping roadshow in there. It's a cherry machine and I love it, but is it a good route game? I'm still not sure. Lots of things going on constantly and multiple flippers make maintenance a bit different then say the ninja turtles in there that honestly is clean but plays pretty basic. Yet for the average person a game like turtles is fine. Getaway may be the best game ever to operate honestly. I have fixed a few things but man those things are tanks. I'm always looking for games with the most metal in them as plastic sucks in my book for repeated plays. I will be putting my no fear in soon which is another great title. Yea it has plastic but built very tough as well. Another one to look for is f-14. That thing is the Sherman tank of pins...

    #267 9 years ago

    Gotta say it, I used to dog on gottlieb sys 3, but I will own one soon and put it in the lineup. They are damn tough and won't break the bank.

    #268 9 years ago

    Haha it's that old wikihow article. Here's a thread on my improvements to another one:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shopping-out-a-how-to-play-pinball-article

    #269 9 years ago

    Thanks for all the thoughts on this topic, folks.

    As my love of pinball has recently been rekindled, and I am wondering "what to do next" with my life, the possibility of operating pinball has been on my mind. I'd like to do something that I enjoy, of course.

    There is one fellow (I talked to him yesterday for a couple minutes) who opened a pinball/ice cream place in Charlotte. It's called X-tra Ball. It's a lovely little shop, aimed mostly for the family-with-kids crowd. He's got 5 machines. He's had it open for a few months now. I've been there twice in the last few days. But, there haven't been too many other folks in the place when I've been there. Besides X-Tra Ball, Charlotte seems to be a desolate pinball wasteland (on location playing, that is).

    And I have to think that is because people just don't play around here in public places.

    I find ryanwanger's model very interesting. I could see some "young and hip" company, like Google or Facebook, doing things like that. What kind of business is paying to have games for their employees to play?

    Is anybody else putting games in work places (on free-play for a monthly fee)?
    If so, what kind of businesses are these?

    #270 9 years ago
    Quoted from doublestack:

    Great topic. About 6 months ago I decided to work toward bring pinball back in my city. I have three of my tables in a buddies back room at his restaurant. Now dubbed the pinball room, it is taking off slowly. Games are fifty cents and he takes 25% which is how I can still run them at .50. I'm there quite often fixing things, but I'm there anyways so I stay on top of them constantly and I love my wax. Just had a buddy finish our flyer today..check it out..

    image.jpg 254 KB

    General "Mad Anthony" Wayne would be proud!

    #271 9 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    General "Mad Anthony" Wayne would be proud!

    Ha! Thanks my northern neighbor!

    #272 9 years ago
    Quoted from kirkgun:

    I find ryanwanger's model very interesting. I could see some "young and hip" company, like Google or Facebook, doing things like that. What kind of business is paying to have games for their employees to play?
    Is anybody else putting games in work places (on free-play for a monthly fee)?
    If so, what kind of businesses are these?

    For me, it's small tech (software) companies. I only have 2 clients, but have been in discussions with a few more. Honestly a big road block is that a lot of them don't have the right space - many offices in my area are all one big open room, which doesn't lend itself to pinball (because the entire office has to listen to you flipping away).

    There might not be anything special about tech companies - it could just be because that's the world I'm in so I have a lot of connections. On the other hand, there are more software jobs than there are employees, and companies are keen on standing out from each other in terms of culture.

    #273 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    On the other hand, there are more software jobs than there are employees.

    ... and vastly fewer employees available with the actual skills/experience needed by those companies.

    Roger that. I only was imagining software dev, but only was thinking of the biggest ones. I guess it wouldn't matter whether it was a tiny shop or a global super-mega-behemoth. All of them would have the same needs, and need to cater the peculiar needs of software developers.

    Too bad Charlotte is a banking town. But hopefully El Goog is able to make fiber happen here, that might open more possibilities.

    Thanks

    #274 9 years ago

    I have one game on route (with a fellow pinsider), Funhouse. I'm selling it (and others), and need a replacement. These are the games that potentially I could sub in there....

    LOTR
    Getaway
    Junkyard
    JD
    NASCAR
    Elvis
    Diner
    WCS
    Congo
    Dirty Harry

    I know LOTR and NASCAR have very long ball times. The JY is very clean and fast - JD I know was not typically a big earner back in the day, Thoughts?

    #275 9 years ago

    Well I said I don't use Loctite in another thread but I suppose I was wrong. Doing some cleaning this morning I found stuff like bushing screws backing out, electric chair posts on Addams Family, etc. This game is played way more than any of the other 5-1/2 pins we have at this place so as expected it has the most issues. I wrote down five things on Addams just this morning. I have my work cut out for me.

    #276 9 years ago

    By the way I'm dabbling into some "tricks" now... flattened a plastic with an incandescent lamp earlier, now trying to clean up some rusty screws with apple cider vinegar.

    #277 9 years ago
    Quoted from marcos:

    I actually only operate one early SS game (Mata Hari) and I can't charge more than $0.25 if I wanted to.

    This game can be set for 2 coins per play. I wouldn't recommend it, though.

    4 weeks later
    #278 9 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    anyone else with advice

    I have a goldeneye and junkyard on location they do pretty good, also very impressed with quicksilver...

    #279 9 years ago

    Nice short piece on Pavlov pinball about operating on location. Interesting to see that the machines earn about $80-$320 per week gross (pre 50/50% split)

    http://pavlovpinball.com/whats-it-like-to-be-a-pinball-operator/

    #280 9 years ago
    Quoted from genex:

    Nice short piece on Pavlov pinball about operating on location. Interesting to see that the machines earn about $80-$320 per week gross (pre 50/50% split)
    http://pavlovpinball.com/whats-it-like-to-be-a-pinball-operator/

    Fun story, thanks for posting.
    Operating must do a heck of a lot better across the pond than here!

    #281 9 years ago

    DOG, I know machines are making around $100-$300+/month gross over here in San Francisco. Really depends on the machine, location, etc. but they can make money. I'm sure it varies based on region etc. And plus rent here is so ridiculous that even games at $1/play aren't expensive (I typically put in $2 for the 3-plays

    #282 9 years ago

    Yeah I would guess in towns with a bumping pinball scene that 100-300 a week is possible.

    Our town is substaintially less.

    #283 9 years ago

    Here's a before and after shot of a pretty nice flame polishing job.

    image.jpgimage.jpg image-926.jpgimage-926.jpg
    #284 9 years ago

    I'd join, just please trolls stay in your caves with your X-box 5000s...

    Here is a map of the games on route in my area,
    13 of them are mine...

    http://pinballmap.com/jacksonville

    #285 9 years ago

    Added TWD Wednesday afternoon. So far so good!

    image.jpgimage.jpg
    #286 9 years ago

    It would be really cool if you could tell us how many games played after the 1st week.

    #287 9 years ago

    I was listening to a Coast 2 Coast Pinball podcast episode where he played audio of (if I remember correctly) Gary Stern talking about how giving away free games (from replay scores and match plays) was cutting into profits for operators.

    I've been at barcades the last two nights and will say this: a shockingly high number of people attempting to play pinball didn't even know where the start button was. The majority of replay matches went unnoticed. People would walk away, leaving the credit. In at least one case, these were people who had a really hard time coming up with the quarters to even play the game in the first place.

    Part of me wonders if maybe we shouldn't be giving away free games. The casual players don't get the match, and can't reach the replay score. The good players just snipe the credits, and rack up free games by scoring well. All the freebies are going to the people who don't need it - they already have longer ball times and are getting more for their money.

    Thoughts?

    #288 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Part of me wonders if maybe we shouldn't be giving away free games. The casual players don't get the match, and can't reach the replay score. The good players just snipe the credits, and rack up free games by scoring well. All the freebies are going to the people who don't need it - they already have longer ball times and are getting more for their money.

    Thoughts?

    Match has always been an important part of the "legal gambling" in pinball.

    Even when players are ready to walk away from a machine, if one player gets a match, the other player puts money in and plays one more round 90% of the time.

    #289 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    I was listening to a Coast 2 Coast Pinball podcast episode where he played audio of (if I remember correctly) Gary Stern talking about how giving away free games (from replay scores and match plays) was cutting into profits for operators.
    I've been at barcades the last two nights and will say this: a shockingly high number of people attempting to play pinball didn't even know where the start button was. The majority of replay matches went unnoticed. People would walk away, leaving the credit. In at least one case, these were people who had a really hard time coming up with the quarters to even play the game in the first place.
    Part of me wonders if maybe we shouldn't be giving away free games. The casual players don't get the match, and can't reach the replay score. The good players just snipe the credits, and rack up free games by scoring well. All the freebies are going to the people who don't need it - they already have longer ball times and are getting more for their money.
    Thoughts?

    Free ball is better reward than replay

    #290 9 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Even when players are ready to walk away from a machine, if one player gets a match, the other player puts money in and plays one more round 90% of the time.

    Ha - this is a great point. Would be interesting if you could set match only on a multiplayer game.

    #291 9 years ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    Free ball is better reward than replay

    I think that's what Gary said in his speech. Is this common? I don't think I've seen a single place in Colorado that does this.

    #292 9 years ago

    Correction, it was Roger Sharpe.

    #293 9 years ago

    I tried that once. It was a mutiny lol.

    #294 9 years ago

    Anyone ever had a situation where:

    - one partner has the relationship with the location, and 3/4 of the games ready to be put in
    - the other partner has a few games also, lives 75 minutes closer (and thus would do most of the maintenance), and would be the main promoter (running tournaments, etc)

    Would love to hear thoughts on how to make it fair for both sides.

    #295 9 years ago

    Time is worth more than games IMHO, esp since they won't make much $$$ anyway.

    The guy maintaining and running tourneys will be putting in lots of time. Draw up a contract of something that works for both of you and you are both happy with. Having a contract makes it cut and dry so when there are issues you can just follow the contract.

    I suggest also creating a LLC and get insurance to protect your personal assets for the "in case" something bad happens.

    Keep in mind you are going to have parts on hand for games that are the other guys and that can be a PITA. My suggestion is to get it all in writing and set a time limit (6mo or 1 year) with a requirement for a few months notice if either partner wants out. Also spell out whom is responsible for regular maintainance and also bigger repairs.

    We have done a co-op sort of thing which allows games/owners to come/go over time and having a clear contract has been great to keep the business side of things seperate from the friend side of things. Friendship is more important than a hobby business.

    #296 9 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Time is worth more than games IMHO, esp since they won't make much $$$ anyway.
    The guy maintaining and running tourneys will be putting in lots of time. Draw up a contract of something that works for both of you and you are both happy with. Having a contract makes it cut and dry so when there are issues you can just follow the contract.
    I suggest also creating a LLC and get insurance to protect your personal assets for the "in case" something bad happens.
    Keep in mind you are going to have parts on hand for games that are the other guys and that can be a PITA. My suggestion is to get it all in writing and set a time limit (6mo or 1 year) with a requirement for a few months notice if either partner wants out. Also spell out whom is responsible for regular maintainance and also bigger repairs.
    We have done a co-op sort of thing which allows games/owners to come/go over time and having a clear contract has been great to keep the business side of things seperate from the friend side of things. Friendship is more important than a hobby business.

    Thanks - I appreciate the reply.

    #297 9 years ago

    We made a Halloween theme line up at One-Eyed Betty's.

    bettys.jpgbettys.jpg
    #298 9 years ago

    Hmm, looks like you might be getting complaints regarding stuck balls on Space Time. Also looks 180 degrees out of level (just a guess).

    #299 9 years ago

    Pic of 3 pinball operatorsIMG_20141019_201102.jpgIMG_20141019_201102.jpg

    #300 9 years ago
    Quoted from mikedetroit:

    We made a Halloween theme line up at One-Eyed Betty's.

    bettys.jpg 121 KB

    Whatever you do, do NOT open the coin door and then the lockdown lever on that Space Time with the Bally exclusive playfield glass in a frame.

    There are 518 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 11.

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