(Topic ID: 78982)

Operating pins on location..grab the Novus & soldering iron

By mikedetroit

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by hocuslocus
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    2 weeks later
    #47 10 years ago
    Quoted from mikedetroit:

    Does anyone do a free play day for your location?

    No way. Put games on location and try to maintain them, you'll quickly see why you won't consider this.

    #64 10 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    I'd be curious to hear what some seasoned ops do in an attempt to bullet-proof their machines for location use.

    I replace stand up targets and put stiffer foam behind ones that get hit a lot. I have a rivet press and usually only replace the plastic if the leaf switch portion is still good. I often use Stern anti-loft stand up brackets instead of Williams as they are much stronger and more robust. Plus you get less airballs.

    I put Cointaker warm white retros in the GI to cut down on heat and current draw and bulb replacement. That being said, they do sometimes fail but overall they've help up pretty good.

    Other than that it is just making sure everything is in good shape and tight. Flippers need to be 100% and rebuilt because they are going to get hammered. Flipper buttons need to be clean and not stick. Check common problem areas on boards (HV section of WPC games, GI connectors, PS connectors). If you have any little issues, you need to take care of them. They will become big issues on location. Stuff you live with at home and pull the glass to correct will not fly on location, you've gotta have the bugs and ball hangs worked out.

    One example is shooter rods. You've probably only cleaned a shooter rod once at your home, and that was the first time it was dirty. On location, EVERY kid repeatedly pulls the shooter rod. They'll be gunked up in one day. If you have a shooter rod or sleeve that is in any way sluggish, you'd better fix it or put in new parts because it will quickly become unusable.

    Another thing you never think about at home is coin mechs and coin switches. They need to be clean and work reliably, obviously! Plus every kid pushes the coin return buttons, so they need to be clean and work.

    #71 10 years ago
    Quoted from genex:

    The Sharkey's gets the least play but it's also at the far end of a dead end area where the pins are but I am not sure the distribution of revenue on the rest since I see all of the machines getting a decent amount of play.

    Location makes a big difference. I've moved a game from the end of a row that was a prominent location to the other end, which was next to a wall. The amount the game brought in went down and stayed down after I moved it.

    #86 10 years ago
    Quoted from cwales:

    Maybe the Woz should be more?

    Put WOZ at at least 75 cents. People will pay it, WOZ is new, different, and stands out. Plus it is more expensive. You can always lower the price later. It is harder to raise the price. My WOZ is $1/play. Other games are 50 cents except Tri Zone, which is a quarter.

    11
    #104 10 years ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Sorry, thought you guys would like to know how the people that actually play the location games feel.

    This is not how the majority of people that play location games feel. The majority of people recognize how much a pinball machine costs and appreciate the effort and time it takes to keep one running on location. And they are willing to pay to support it. I'm happy to report that you are the minority.

    So I'm supposed to spend thousands of dollars for a game, pay for a license, insurance, my time, gas, vehicle, parts, and feel bad about having a game priced higher than 50 cents/play? And out of that 50 cents comes state sales tax and a portion goes to the location. No feeling guilty here.

    If the game is dirty, broken, and a piece, I can see not wanting to spend 50 cents. But if they are maintained and quality machines, you ought to have no qualms about dropping 75 cents or more for a game.

    #108 10 years ago
    Quoted from lowepg:

    Really? I'd be surprised if the majority of location players (not just the ones who also own home machines) have a good handle on what a pinball machine costs..... Rather I think they'd be shocked!

    I guess I should have qualified my statement. The majority of people that know anything about pinball machines, such as the person I was replying to, have no problems paying 50 cents or more to play as they recognize the effort it takes.

    The rest of the people that know nothing about pinball seem to have no problems spending 50 cents or more for a game.

    #118 10 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Since they don't have magnets in them, you will get Canadian Quarters if that is a problem for you.

    You can also pull the magnets out of most other coin mechs if you don't want to worry about stopping Canadian quarters and minimize jams. I've debated pulling them out of mine, but I get so few Canadian quarters that I didn't want to spend the time taking out each mech and removing the magnets. I've maybe gotten 6 in almost 1.75 years. It is a pain when they jam a coin mech, but it isn't a huge problem in Kansas. If I lived further north it could maybe turn into a headache.

    #152 10 years ago

    Regarding people stealing games, I bought my AFM from an op who had an arcade space in a mall in a small town. I went to pick it up in the morning (the mall was open) and the entire time while we broke down the game and moved it I maybe saw one other person. Someone could have come in and had that game out in a couple minutes and nobody would have ever seen them.

    Before anyone gets any ideas, he doesn't have any more pins on location. He hated pins and was done operating them.

    1 month later
    #194 10 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    I'm contemplated the idea of routing before, but every time I break down the numbers, it just seems like it's going to be a lot of work for very little return, and a bit of risk to boot.

    It seems like I should be putting my knowledge of repairs and tuning these out to use in making me money, but I fear in the end I'll have little to show, and get a drowned out taste for pinball in the end.

    Having done this, both putting games on location and running a repair business, I have to say you are pretty much right. After doing taxes for last year it makes you rethink what you are doing. I basically covered my expenses with a little left over. That's certainly better than losing money, but you aren't going to get rich. If it weren't for the community, my location owners (they are great) and the love of the games, it wouldn't be worth it. I'm not burned out on pinball, but your attitude towards it does change. There are days when you think it is the best job in the world, and there are days when it is just another job and the same old grind.

    1 week later
    #199 10 years ago
    Quoted from CavemanJoe:

    I want to get more electromechanicals back out in public

    In my limited experience, EMs do fairly well, especially in a lineup of other DMD games. They get quarters from the people that want to play a simple and inexpensive game. And a lot of little kids gravitate towards the simpler and easier games. And when mom and dad give you a dollar and you can play four games on an EM vs. one or two on a solid state game, you pick the EM. You can recover the cost of an EM pretty quickly even at a quarter per play.

    1 month later
    #221 9 years ago

    Oh, jeez, I've been fighting change machines the last three days. My cheapo unit finally gave up and I can't get it working. The inhibit signal seems to not be sensed by the validator. I've given up on it and figure it is done for. I've spent waaaay too much time on it already. It isn't worth spending any more time or any money on it to try and repair it.

    My location owners bought a Rowe BC-3500 and finally got power installed for it and fired it up today. The validator doesn't sense correctly. Using the manual and running through the voltage tests for the validator sensors, it appears that a couple of the photo cells must be bad. Of course I don't have anything like that on hand. I probably spent a least an hour on it today.

    As for quarters, at my location I own the pins. And up until today I owned and serviced the change machine. The location owners own the claw machine and some gumball and sticker machines. I end up having to get quarters from them as more quarters go out of the change machine than go into the pins. For months it was about even and I didn't need to get quarters from them, but the last 3+ months kids have been running me out.

    2 weeks later
    #225 9 years ago

    Update on my change machine problems, the restaurant's Rowe BC-3500 is fixed. The person who sold it to the restaurant installed a new validator and that took care of the problem.

    I'm now running an American Changer AC401. Not ideal, but it is working so far. Between the restaurant's Rowe and my AC401, I've been ending up with extra quarters and have to take them to the bank. That hasn't happened for quite a while.

    1 week later
    #236 9 years ago

    I had Getaway and Funhouse in my location at the same time. Funhouse did much better. After a few months, Getaway was the lowest earning machine of all 7. That being said, Getaway's success depends on your customer base. Mine is a lot of kids and the theme isn't one that draws in kids as good as other games. Adults that remember the game would play it a lot, but that doesn't make up for kids not wanting to play it.

    I haven't had any of the other games you mention on location although I should have a Congo at some point in the next year. I'd think LOTR would do pretty good as long as it isn't trouble to keep it running. I also would not want LOTR in a location where monthly tournaments are held, it would really slow things down. I thought Spiderman slowed down our tournaments but LOTR would be ridiculous.

    #240 9 years ago
    Quoted from genex:

    You guys see this?

    I certainly don't make that kind of money!

    1 month later
    #252 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Should I just go without it? Seems like it will be more trouble than it is worth.

    If you are having any trouble at all with it at home, you DO NOT want it when the game is on location. Little problems at home become huge problems when a game is on location.

    3 months later
    #320 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    What's a good way to count the coin drop?

    A pound of quarters is $20. For amounts of several hundred dollars, I can usually get within a quarter using my postage scale.

    #331 9 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    Thanks for the advice - worked great for me.

    Glad to hear that. Often the best solution isn't the most elegant solution. But if it works, it works.

    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    As a player, I've never once used a DBV in a pinball machine, so I'm a little skeptical.

    In my location, DBVs don't help. But my games are primarily 50 cents/play. If I had them priced at $1/play it would be a no-brainer to have a DBV in all of them.

    1 month later
    #350 9 years ago

    John, my opinion based on my location. Keep in mind this is a pizza restaurant with lots of kids playing.

    DBA: Depends on your pricing. Most of my games are 50 cents/play. A DBA does not seem to make a difference at this price point in my location. If games are $1/play or reward you with extra credits for $1 increments, then a DBA makes sense. You definitely want a change machine. The location owners quickly tire of having to make change.

    Coin mechs: The Iomex mechs with no moving parts are nice. But I've ran all different kinds of mechs and not really had problems with any. If they are gunky from spilled drinks, they'll cause problems. If they are clean, they all seem to work pretty good.

    I put LEDs in all of the game GI. It keeps you from having to change GI bulbs and it means less heat and power usage. I don't use LEDs in inserts unless they are in hard to reach places that I don't want to mess with on location. I'll also use LEDs in certain inserts where heat can cause issues with raised inserts and wear. And example is Doctor Who's light matrix in front of the Time Expander. The lamp board traps heat and contributes to inserts raising and sinking. The reason I don't generally use LEDs in inserts is because some people hate them in inserts. And it can be distracting at times. So I take a middle of the road approach and generally keep incandescents in inserts.

    Cointaker Retro LEDs are brighter than an incandescent. Often times this is nice as a little extra illumination helps. Comet's retro LEDs are closer to the brightness of a #44 incandescent. If you want a more incandescent look, they are the way to go. In both cases the color spectrum is a bit whiter than an incandescent, even if you use a warm white LED.

    I use white rings and haven't had any problems. They do get dirty, but you can simply wipe the sling rubber and any other easy to reach rubber when cleaning the game. I do notice games with black rubber get significantly dirtier. So white does help keep the game looking cleaner. I'll take rubber that is a little dirty looking over a filthy playfield.

    Outlanes, depends on the game and location. I play the game and adjust as I think is needed.

    Pricing, I have a very generous split with my location. So I'm able to keep most 90s DMD games at 50 cents/play. A list games are 75 cents/play. Anything brand new will start at $1/play and drop to 75 cents after a while if play numbers drop off. I had WOZ in my location for 8 months and kept it at $1/play the whole time. It did fine. If I was splitting 50-50 I'd definitely price at at least 75 cents/play.

    Other stuff: On WPC games make sure your connectors and header pins for the entire 5v power chain to the CPU are good and clean. I often replace the crimp contacts for the 9v AC at the transformer connector, AC input into the PDB, 5v output from the PDB, and 5v input to the CPU. Do this and you probably will never have a reset.

    Play the game and notice any ball hangs or issues. If you see something happen or have to ever remove the glass, fix it. Little annoyances at home become big problems on location.

    4 months later
    #396 8 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    What do you guys use for tracking earnings?

    Just a spreadsheet I made. I put each year on a new tab. It keeps track of each game, and weekly/monthly totals. It also computes my sales tax and the location's share. I keep a running total over the years of what each machine has netted me so I know what it has earned over its lifetime.

    I don't track ball times or anything else. I'll look at the data occasionally. And I'll occasionally do an audit dump on Stern games that support it. It is interesting, but not my main concern.

    1 month later
    #433 8 years ago

    My change machine went kaput today. I need two change machines, looking for advice.

    -Preferably wall mount, don't need a pedestal
    -Hopper, no coin tubes
    -At least $200 capacity, doesn't need to be more than $400-500 capacity although more is better of course
    -Accept $1, $5 at a minimum

    Seems like everything new that isn't junk is >$1200. I've gone cheap in the past and been burned so if I have to spend the money to get something reliable I will.

    I'm going to speak to a few local ops that I know but I figured I'd also ask here for advice.

    #441 8 years ago

    Anyone have any experience with these? Brand is Seaga out of Freeport, IL.

    http://www.samsclub.com/sams/36-250-capacity-bill-changer/188257.ip

    1 week later
    #446 8 years ago
    Quoted from Drew13:

    Garbage. Spend the money and buy a rowe or american changer for 1300

    Too late now. I've got two coming, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I'll probably be kicking myself in a year but I figured I'd give them a try.

    What's funny is one I am replacing is an American Changer and it is garbage.

    #449 8 years ago
    Quoted from kms_pinball:

    Just saw this about the Seaga changer and wanted to add my two cents.

    Thanks for the input. I'm at my location almost daily, so bills stacking up will not be an issue. As long as it doesn't break, it should be fine as far as capacity and operation.

    Quoted from kms_pinball:

    What's wrong with the American Changer??

    It occasionally thinks it is a slot machine and does a full coin dump. Luckily each time it has done this is before the location was open and the employees gathered up all the quarters. If it was during a party or busy time with kids running around I'd probably have lost a bit of money. The crazy thing is this has happened with two different machines, so it isn't just a fluke. It is a problem with this particular AC401 model. I called American Changer and asked for any insight and they blew me off. The guy on the phone clearly didn't want to hear about it, wasn't interested in helping, and only wanted me off the phone as quickly as possible.

    There are a few more details regarding the thing dumping coins, but I honestly don't feel like typing up all the specific points right now.

    2 months later
    #457 8 years ago

    Anyone run an RBION on location? I think the playfield looks good and inviting, but the backglass would probably turn people away.

    #468 8 years ago

    I have general business liability insurance through American Family. Nobody else really seemed interested in insuring a small business like mine (State Farm, Allstate, Sentry, and a few others I can't remember). Rates were ridiculous, like $600-1000 yr. American Family is $300/yr.

    #470 8 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-Willy:

    Stangbat im a little confussed by this

    Sorry, I meant American Family. I corrected the error.

    #472 8 years ago

    I really can't speak to coverage amounts. That's really a question for an attorney and/or insurance agent. The main thing is to get yourself covered from a liability standpoint. As for theft or damage to your property, good luck. Nobody I spoke to wants to insure your games on someone else's property. Speak to your location, they usually have coverage that covers other people's property, and your games may be covered under it in the event of theft or fire. In the grand scheme of things, damage to or loss of your games is trivial compared to defending a lawsuit.

    #480 8 years ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    @stangbat: I'm not a lawyer, but isn't that what an LLC is for?

    I'm not a lawyer, but I asked a lawyer about this. There is a lot of misinformation out there about LLCs. You can't just magically shield yourself from tort liability by using an LLC. If it was that simple everyone would incorporate and we'd be done with lawsuits. You need general business liability insurance no matter what.

    Here is an article about LLCs and tort liability that is written by a lawyer, not a pinball operator. When it comes to running my business, I know who I'm going to trust.

    http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2009/05/articles/attorney/automobile-accidents/can-i-set-up-an-llc-to-avoid-personal-liability-in-a-lawsuit/

    #482 8 years ago

    It really depends on your situation. The article you referenced really doesn't say anything counter or different to the one I posted. If you have employees or partners, an LLC makes sense and I'd look into it. If you are a sole proprietor, probably not. I believe that general business liability insurance will cover you in the case you mentioned (drunk hitting head).

    All the above said with the caveat of IANAL. And I really don't want to argue this stuff and I won't. It isn't worth it. If you have questions or concerns, consult an attorney and your insurance agent.

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