On that first picture it looks like you've got a pretty big gap between the coil top and the bracket

OK thanks. Yes, I've confirmed that my center coil is not factory so I ordered the correct one.

I got a question rebuilding one of the three pop bumpers in my WCS94.

Once I got the new ring assembly shafts thru the metal and fiber yokes and secured both nuts, it appears shorter than the other two pop bumper shafts in the pin. (see pics)

I read somewhere they make this same ring w/ 1/16" shorter shafts and I think I got one of those rings.

Question is what happens if I try to use pin w/ shorter ring shafts?

I'm not planning to, I'm getting the correct longer shaft ring, but was curious why there are two rings with such a miniscule length difference? Is one for Data East or Gottlieb?

shortshaft (resized).jpg

longshaft (resized).jpg

Thanks for the polishing tip. I would have never thought of it, but it makes them so much smoother.

IMG_0467 (resized).JPG

Here's a pic of the broken ring that came out of WCS94.It measures 2-1/2 inches from the top of the ferrule to the start of the threads.
Add 1/8" for the ferrule height to where it attaches to the ring, so 2-5/8" to the beginning of the threads.

Not sure how long the threads were on the one I put in the pin already. I don't have another ring out of the game or a spare.

Could you measure one and let me know if this length matches what a Bally/Williams should be?

BTW, never did find the two lock nuts in the cabinet with the threaded rod portions in them but I did find the two washers.
Might have been like this for years and the only way I noticed any issue was the switch error (credit dot) I got and found the broken metal yoke.
Those threads are smoothed out and gone on the broken shafts.

pbrbroke (resized).jpg

Could someone please measure the length from the bottom of the threads to the ring and/or ferrule for me?
Thanks.

Thank you for confirming...I couldn't find dimensions for this part online.
BTW, how long is the threaded portion? Mine had snapped off.

So what about those plastic pop bumper rings on classic Sterns? Note this comment:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/quicksilver-club-all-welcome#post-3027805

What are the pros and cons of these? I'd think they'd be easier on a ball than even polished metal rings, and probably lighter too. But if they're so great there must be a good reason I don't see them everywhere, right?

Just as I looked over your guide, here’s what I found when pulling apart my first pop for playfield swap. Good thing I had extras!

F029A054-4545-4326-8936-60237331C274 (resized).jpeg

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Hey! That looks somewhat familar...

I’ve got a question: I rebuilt and placed my first pop last night, and it looks slightly off-kilter, as far as height. With the cap installed, there looks to be a little more of a gap than the old ones in the accompanying picture. Is that ok? The height of the ring itself appears to be the same...just the distance from the ring to the cap. Is it possible that the bodies I got are a bit taller?

89294AA6-DB19-4533-A211-6DFDC930D3F6 (resized).jpeg

6884DF78-1258-4B24-9859-C5259A73CC52 (resized).jpeg

Well I answered my own question: the bodies are slightly taller, maybe 1/4 inch. Does this really matter? The bumper looks like
It will work just fine...is there any concern other than cosmetic?

As long as the ring is the same distance from the playfield it should function the same...

Thanks Vid for this thread. Gave me the courage to take off the pops on my Raven. I think this pin is a collector!

F468C501-368D-47B1-AA86-87D5ECFDC5DD (resized).jpeg

Vid, I used your guide here to rebuild my firepower pops while doing the playfield restore. Good grief are they sensitive and fast! Thanks for all of your work on here.

Just removing the grime from the plastic spoons and polishing the rings made a HUGE difference on my Raven. Pretty simple task. Another reason for the buffer. Here’s the grime

44CD94CD-687D-489D-B32C-5D3B2006FC39 (resized).png

Does anyone know why those rings are not getting reproduced? I know there needs to be a large order for injection molded plastic like this.. but I have to imagine there is enough demand now.

-Jay

Stern flipper bats weren't even being made till this year, and these rings don't break much. I figure it's not a priority to remake them when metal are available

Except that everyone constantly talks about how great they are. Better action, less wear on Vid's balls, etc.

Personally, I would be in for 50 if they were as sturdy as the originals and the price was reasonable. I would use them on all my early SS restores going forward...

-Jay

I just finished restoring a 1964 Williams San Francisco. I was doing a first "road test" today to make sure all the switches were adjusted optimally when....oops. Something happened. On the very first activation of one of the pop bumpers, the machine went into "game over" mode with an awful buzzing sound from the (locked on) game over relay. At first I thought there must be a short in the pop bumper circuit. After about an hour of scratching my head, reading and rereading the schematic diagram I just started looking REALLY SLOWLY and CAREFULLY at any and all components in the game over relay circuit. It was hard to see with my nearly 50 year-old eyes (and at first I thought it was an unusual wire connection) but I finally found the nut and the threaded end of rod from a pop bumper ring sitting on top of the ends of the switch blades for the "special" relay. I always tighten these nuts well because I don't want them working their way loose, but is it possible that I overdid it with this one? Or do you think that the ring rod was faulty? I am looking for opinions as to why the rod sheared off so that if it was a case of operator error I can adjust my approach and avoid something similar in the future.

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Took the offending ring out tonight. It was brand new.

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Could be crappy/weakened metal as well. One of mine had the same thing happen to it.

Aaaaand then this: about a year ago I ordered a bunch of parts for three restoration projects including this one. Pictured here are 5 out of six ring/rod assemblies that are no good straight out of the box. They were all nested together and it never occurred to me that there could be anything wrong with a brand new ring/rod until I unpacked them last night. Five of the six had crappy attachments. The three on the left are really bad. See how much the rods can easily move out of parallel? The two on the right might not look bad but if you give the rods a gentle wiggle they move. In retrospect, it was probably play like that which caused the pops on a prior project to wear through the bumper bodies gradually over a period of six months, eventually causing a full pop lockup/blown transistor.

20180110_092030 (resized).jpg

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For comparison I dug an old ring/rod out of my spare parts bin. The rod attachment on this is rock solid steady. The end of the rod that is flattened onto the ring looks WAY better formed compared to the one pictured in my post.

20180110_093330 (resized).jpg

Thanks Vid. That was an easy fix. They all seem snug now, but I must admit that I am concerned about their long term durability. It looks to me like the factory peen on my funky rods barely rolled over the hole in the ring. Time will tell, I suppose. Thanks as always for your help!

Who did you order those from? They look like somebody's bad attempt at refurbishing old ones.

Interesting theory. Until now I had not questioned whether they were truly new. For the price it seems unlikely that they are refurbished (unless someone likes working basically for free). They came from Marco about a year ago.

Vid,

Here is a picture of some screws placed in the playfield. I'm guessing someone did it because of a malfunctioning pop bumper?IMG_3815 (resized).JPG

Question for you Vid:

I had a fuse blow on my right lower Firepower pop bumper circuit (I installed the mod that fuses the solenoids on the J12 connector). This has not happened before I installed my restored play field, and rebuilt the pops per your guide here. I made them extra sensitive: the game rocks, those things are firing constantly and bouncing the ball all over the place! However, I wonder if, because of Firepower's configuration of the four pops in a square, when the ball repeatedly bounces back and forth between two of them very quickly, that it almost causes the circuit to be closed for too long, resulting in the blown fuse. Could this be the case? I have looked over everything else, and cannot find any other issue.

The installed fuses from the kit are 1.25 A.

All right so I just finished my first restore, and I am having a hell of a time getting the pops to fire when the ball hits the skirt.

The skirt has movement and I can see the pin, but it is not hitting the spoon. This is a WPC95 game, so it’s all fairly standard stuff. Do I need to check the alignment, or should I try bending the switch ? Not sure what I’m doing wrong here. I used the light trick for alignment and it looks like it’s on there ok

Yes it fires with my finger, but less so when i just tap the edge, like a ball would - i have to press down a bit more in the middle.

New skirt and spoon

yes switches were cleaned. All parts new except the very base part of the body. And it really has to be a $100 bill? lol

Thanks, I’ll add one to my tool belt

Will see what I can do about bending that gap. Thanks

Anyone ever have a problem where the rod and ring retriggers the bumper by pushing down the skirt?

The replacement part from PBR flares out at the top to a cylinder about the diameter of the hole in the skirt. Sometimes it pushes the skirt down and then the bumper re-triggers and stays energized:

http://www.pbresource.com/caps/wll-a4754.jpg

I also had it jam in the skirt and I had to pull it out.

I removed these replacement rod and ring parts and putting the originals back after cleaning them up. However I am still having a problem where one bumper retriggers when the ring hits the skirt. Is there some adjustment I need to do so that the ring doesn't plunge so far down and hit the skirt? This is on a 1954 Williams Spitfire by the way. The body and skirt are new.

Make sure you have washers in between the nut and the yokes; maybe you can add another to have a bit more height on the ring

I didn't have the washers -- thanks ! ! Still happening so maybe I will add a few washers to the one bumper. Other one seems okay.

Seems like the only way to go - you don’t want to loosen those nuts, as they will definitely fall off