(Topic ID: 29731)

Vid's GUIDE To Rebuilding Pop Bumpers

By vid1900

11 years ago


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    Post #183 Bally 80’s pop bumper rebuild Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

    Post #407 Recommendation for stapler Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

    Post #536 Link to a great video for people who are new to pop bumpers. Posted by Axl (5 years ago)


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    65
    #1 11 years ago

    The only thing that strikes more fear into a new pinball owner's heart than setting the EOS Gap is rebuilding their Pop Bumpers.

    There are always posts about how hard it is, but it really isn't hard at all. Like most complex tasks, rebuilding pops is quite easy, if you break it down into small steps.

    A good machine needs strong Pops for fast action.

    I know I've been many months late getting this guide done, but I'm fixing machines damaged by Hurricane Sandy and finally have some time to kill in my hotel.

    15
    #2 11 years ago

    First label your wires. I know you can look it up in the manual, or even remember the wiring, but sometimes you get back to things much later than you think you will. Nobody ever complained that they took too many pictures or labeled everything too well.

    Next unsolder the coil wires at the top of the bracket, and the lamp wires on the underside of the playfield.

    1.jpg1.jpg

    15
    #3 11 years ago

    Next pull the staples that hold down the Lamp leads.

    You can put a sharp Scratch Awl under the staples and give them a light tap. Pull the staples out completely with a pair of pliers.

    If you don't have a pneumatic staple gun to put new staples in, carefully lift the staples just enough to pull the leads through. Then when you put everything back together, pass the leads under the staples, and tap the staples back down securely.

    If the staple breaks, be careful to pull out any remnants.

    There is usually a little piece of rubber or vinyl insulation that keeps the lamp from shorting against the bracket. You can reuse this, or use a piece of shrink tubing or even aquarium air line.

    2.jpg2.jpg

    10
    #4 11 years ago

    Next remove the two 5/16" nuts (yellow handled nut wrench if you have a mechanic's set) that hold the Ring.

    Be ready to catch the ring if you have the playfield upsidedown on a rotisserie, as it will drop away freely. Don't lose the two small washers that are on the underside of the Metal Yoke.

    3.jpg3.jpg

    16
    #5 11 years ago

    Here is the Ring, washers and nuts.

    Can you tell what side of the ring the balls always hit on this particular game?

    4.jpg4.jpg

    Brand new Rings are not ready for installation right out of the box.

    New Rings have a rough sandpaper surface that quickly chews up your balls.

    1. Sand out any scratches to 500 or 600 grit.

    2. Polish with Green Compound to produce a mirror finish

    3. Polish the shafts too for ultra fast action.

    4. Wax the Rings and shafts.

    5. Install.

    11_(resized).jpg11_(resized).jpg

    Some Ring/Rod porn for you:

    0_(resized).jpg0_(resized).jpg

    12
    #7 11 years ago

    Next remove the three 5/16" nuts from the Bracket.

    If the whole screw shaft is turning freely in the wood, grab the shaft with Vise-Grips and turn the nut with an open ended wrench. Make note to fill hole with wood epoxy, redrill and pound in a new "Fin Shank Screw" - the fancy name for those screws.

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

    5.jpg5.jpg fin_shank.jpgfin_shank.jpg

    11
    #8 11 years ago

    The whole Bracket lifts off and you can see the Spoon, the Switch Stack and the Lamp leads.

    6.jpg6.jpg

    12
    #9 11 years ago

    From the topside of the playfield, remove the Pop Bumper Cap and remove the two screws at the bottom of the Pop Body.

    Gently lift the whole assembly out, don't scratch the playfield with the Lamp leads.

    7.jpg7.jpg

    17
    #10 11 years ago

    Now that you have it out, it does not look that complicated, does it?

    9.jpg9.jpg

    10
    #12 11 years ago

    Now, let's start the rebuild.

    Unless you want the look of yellowed plastic (don't laugh, on older games it often looks best), I'm assuming most of these parts are going to be brand new. They are very inexpensive, so replace them if at all possible.

    First, put down the new Base into the Pop Bumper hole in the playfield.

    Rotate the Base so the large base holes line up with the playfield screw holes.

    10.jpg10.jpg

    10
    #13 11 years ago

    Next install the Skirt Spring, also referred to as the "Small Spring".

    11.jpg11.jpg

    11
    #15 11 years ago

    Place the Skirt on the Spring.

    Note the the two widely spaced holes go over the large holes in the playfield. You can't really mess this up once you look at it. The Ring rods travel through those holes.

    12.jpg12.jpg

    11
    #16 11 years ago

    Next the Body snaps into the Base.

    Note how the larger holes line up with the screw holes and not the Lamp lead holes. Again, you are not going to mess this up, but watch for it.

    13.jpg13.jpg

    10
    #17 11 years ago

    Here we slide in the Lamp holder through the small Lamp lead holes.

    Push it all the way to the bottom.

    14.jpg14.jpg

    14
    #18 11 years ago

    If you somehow got stuck with the flexible wire lead Lamp Holders, you have now probably discovered that they won't go down very far into the Body, and tend to fall to one side or another.

    You need to fix this with a Zip-tie so the Holder can go all the way down to the bottom of the body.

    Next time, make sure you buy the stiff wire leads, LOL.

    17.jpg17.jpg 19.jpg19.jpg

    10
    #19 11 years ago

    Next you can install the bulb.

    If you are using a LED Lamp, don't put the bulb in yet, as you may have to reverse the bulb to get the polarity right (depending on the game).

    15.jpg15.jpg

    10
    #20 11 years ago

    The cap goes on with two screws.

    Again, don't put the cap on yet if you are using LEDs. Once you have the game powered up, THEN you will find if the bulb needs reversing (literally pull it out and replace it 180°).

    NOTE: Many System3-7 game where the pop bumper lamps are under CPU control (meaning that they are NOT part of the GI lighting circuit (on all the time)) won't light up simple, single LEDs. You will need more complex LEDs with multiple lamps because they have the little, on board regulator in the base. If you used 555 sockets, you can try reversing the bulb 180*, but the #44 sockets require a better bulb.

    16.jpg16.jpg

    #21 11 years ago

    Now that the topside of the bumper is completed, we go under the playfield to the Bracket assembly.

    First, take a look at the Coil and see if it is the correct model for your game (usually the required coils are listed on the inside cover of the manual).

    Don't be surprised if you have a smorgasbord of mismatched coils, as most operators only cared about keeping the game working, not how well it played.

    Take the two screws off the back of the bracket and the whole assembly will come apart.

    20.jpg20.jpg

    11
    #26 11 years ago

    Now that you have the Bracket apart, inspect the Plunger for wear. If it's not smooth and shiny, replace it. If the end is mushroomed, replace the Plunger and the Bracket; as it's probably too worn to fool with. If the Plunger has become magnetized and is covered with metal shavings, replace it.

    Clean any parts you are keeping with Fantastik or any other degreaser using an old toothbrush. Clean inside the Coil too.

    Replace the Sleeve. If it's stuck tight in the coil, press the protruding part down flat on your workbench and push it out. If it is hopelessly stuck, replace the coil (it probably overheated at some point, and could be a liability latter on). Remember that the lip on the Sleeve goes on the diode end of the coil.

    The Bracket has 2 yokes. The metal one is almost always broken, the fiber one is always worn. Always replace them both.

    Make sure both screws are the type with lock washers installed on them. If the Yoke Retaining Bracket comes loose, the Plunger will become damaged.

    When reassembling the Bracket, remember to press the Yoke Retaining Bracket towards the Coil Stop end of the Bracket as you tighten the screws. By doing this you will ensure that there is no slop in the Coil; and thus all the energy will be transmitted to the ball. The Coil should NOT be loose or have any play.

    21.jpg21.jpg

    #27 11 years ago

    The plastic Spoon on the front of the Switch Stack should be replaced.

    Often the ball will hit the bumpers from one direction and the inside spoon surface will wear in a pattern, or even a straight groove.

    The Switch Stack has some room for adjustment so that the center of the Spoon can be directly over the center of the Skirt Pin. Loosen the two screws a bit so you can just move the Switch around.

    22.jpg22.jpg

    10
    #28 11 years ago

    Many spoons are translucent plastic, assuming yours are, you can use the following operator's trick:

    Use a strong beam of light to illuminate the underside of the spoon.

    Look at the shadow cast by the contact point between the Skirt Pin and the Spoon.

    A.jpgA.jpg

    11
    #29 11 years ago

    Move the Switch Stack around until the Skirt Pin is exactly in the center of the spoon.

    Check your work by tapping your finger in the center of the Spoon. If the Skirt Pin is truly centered, there will be no play or movement. If not centered, you will notice the Pin will slightly veer off to one side as you tap. Purposely misaligned the Spoon to learn this effect.

    If you spoon is black or an opaque plastic, use the tapping technique as above.

    Tighten the screws on the Switch Stack and double check that your Pin is still in the center of the Spoon.

    B.jpgB.jpg

    #30 11 years ago

    Once the Spoon is centered, put your now reassembled Coil Bracket back into place.

    Resolder your Lamp leads and the Coil leads.

    #31 11 years ago

    Clean the switch contacts with a crisp dollar bill. Gently press the contacts together while pulling the bill between them, repeat until bill comes out clean.

    Here is a picture to explain how all of the parts fit back together around the Switch Stack.

    23.jpg23.jpg

    11
    #32 11 years ago

    When the Pop Bumper is at rest, we want the Solenoid Switch to have a very small gap so that the Bumper has a "hair trigger" (this reference comes from fire arms, where a small amount of force (I guess a human hair) can set off the firing pin).

    On a pinball game, we want the slightest amount of force to trigger the bumpers so they are VERY lively.

    When the game is powered on, pound on the playfield a few times and make sure that the Pop Bumpers do not activate from vibration alone.

    24.jpg24.jpg

    10
    #33 11 years ago

    The Scoring Switch activates whenever the Pop Bumper fires. The Solenoid drives the Fiber Yoke into closing the Scoring Switch.

    The Gap on the Scoring Switch is not very critical. As long as the contacts touch before the last 1/8" of travel it should be fine. This last bit of travel lets the contacts slide across each other for self cleaning action.

    25.jpg25.jpg

    #34 11 years ago

    So that's it. Like always, I'll fix any typos over the next few days.

    Once you have done it, figure about 10 minutes per bumper to rebuild them.

    Again, most of these parts are very inexpensive, so don't waste time cleaning or filing old ones.

    Newer Bumper Bodies are much less translucent that the old ones, so a 5 LED lamp may be needed to illuminate as well as the old incandescent 555 did.

    #35 11 years ago
    Quoted from Kcpinballfan:

    I rebuilt the pops on a Lethal Weapon 3 and they just don't have that nice fast action. Is there something I can do on a data east game to make it more snappy? The ball just kinda gets batted around lightly.

    Check your voltage at the coils to make sure you are getting all the juice they need.

    I assume you checked that the correct coils were installed for your game.

    I assume you checked that the plungers are moving freely.

    I assume you set the Solenoid switches to the smallest gap possible.

    If none of that helps, then you can always install more powerful coils. Don't go crazy with power, just swap out the next stronger value.

    #36 11 years ago
    Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

    I like the system 11 screws they use instead of the fin shanked ones. They are a philips head on the top side of the playfield and have an upper coarse thread that is actually a reverse thread that holds it into the playfield and then the nuts hold the coil bracket on the bottom are normal thread. Make sure you drill is in forward when taking these out of the playfield!

    Indeed!

    #37 11 years ago
    Quoted from NJGecko:

    Kudos! You helped with your flipper rebuild guide, and the next time I'm reassembling a set of pops, I will bet it won't take me a half hour of wrangling to figure the first one out like it did last time!

    You'll be wrenching on pins like a pro in no time.

    #38 11 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    One question vid. If I just want to resleeve a bumper coil (say it performs fine but I know the sleeves are a decade old) would I first remove the L bracket screws to separate it from the main mounting bracket, then detach that from the playfield?

    Yes. It will be a little bit of a wrestling match, but no big deal. Replace your Yokes at the same time, as I'm sure your metal one is broken by now.

    #40 11 years ago
    Quoted from RacerRik:

    Great tutorial! The only thing I would correct is that adjustment of the scoring switch is a bit more critical than you indicated. If the contacts make just barely before the plunger bottoms out, they will have no sliding action which is designed in to these leaf switches as a self cleaning mechanism. You want to adjust the leafs so that the contacts make and then continue to move about 1/8" to 3/16" before the plunger bottoms out.

    Changed it, thanks!

    #42 11 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Nice vid. You should write this for PinWiki!
    --
    Chris Hibler -

    I need to add a few more pics to the Flipper guide too and I can migrate them both over.

    #47 11 years ago
    Quoted from tomdotcom:

    Great post vid, I've done it before, but always with the playfield in the game still...pops are always at the back of the game usually...so hard to reach ....

    Yeah, I've done it on location plenty of times - not as fun as disconnecting a few cables and plopping it on the rotisserie, that's for sure.

    #55 11 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Are reproduction yokes stronger than the originals? Would they ever break?

    Still breaking.

    #57 11 years ago

    I always tell everyone I want to be displayed at this funeral home:

    tallman.jpgtallman.jpg

    2 weeks later
    #64 11 years ago
    Quoted from flashburn:

    What about the ring/rod assembly? Should I just polish and reuse that one?

    If it is smooth and polishes up nice, then reuse it.

    Look where the rod becomes threaded at the ends. If there is any cracking, replace it.

    2 weeks later
    #71 11 years ago

    You probably don't have to remove more than 2 staples per bumper.

    Unsolder the 2 legs of the lamp holder, not the entire lighting circuit.

    #74 11 years ago
    Quoted from flashburn:

    Right, but each of the lamp holder leads are soldered to each other, so I need to remove them all? I don't see how I could get around that. It wouldn't be so bad if I had a rotisserie, a couple of the spots are really hard to get to.

    If you have brand new replacement lamps, you can just cut the leads on the old one.

    Then solder the new one into the "nest" of the old wires.

    #76 11 years ago
    Quoted from flashburn:

    I really hate how deep into the cabinet these WPC games sit, makes working on the pop bumpers a pain.

    Don't use the prop rod, pull the whole playfield forward and lean it backwards against the back box (use a towel to keep it from getting scratched).

    Your back will thank you.

    Or just disconnect the plugs and pull the whole playfield out and lay it across 2 saw horses.

    This might take you 4 minutes the first time, and 1 minute the next. Really easy, not scary at all.

    #79 11 years ago

    If it has just the 2 hinges, then disconnect it and pull it out of the cab.

    Once you try it, you will not believe that you ever thought about doing it any other way. No solder dripping into the machine and of course the fact that you can sit while you work.

    5 months later
    #87 10 years ago

    Vid, you did not mention what you use to re-staple the light leads.

    An upholstery stapler is good if you have an air compressor in the shop.

    3G.16-SL.jpg3G.16-SL.jpg

    #88 10 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I would take the wrapper off and clean it up just to make sure there are no messed up pieces of the coil wire, but if they all look ok, I would just hit it with some nail polish on that area and a new coil wrapper.

    This.

    A new coil is $10, so if the wires look too damaged, don't hesitate to just replace it.

    90% of the time, nail polish is fine.

    #89 10 years ago
    Quoted from JoeJet:

    What do you think about this alternate method that I got from Ed Cheung?
    http://www.edcheung.com/album/album08/pinball/tz.htm

    A nice solution.

    2 months later
    #93 10 years ago
    Quoted from sscharf:

    You don't explicitly say when to put the ring in place, and the picture shows the body in place before the ring. The next picture sneaks the ring in to position.

    Usually I put in the body, then the ring.

    Once in a while you find a body fatter than the ring, if that's the case, obviously the ring needs to go in first.

    Quoted from sscharf:

    Any more comments about stapling? I could not get my hand-held stapler to work, there is not enough access. I see air-powered staplers (long nose!) for about $75 on eBay. Any other suggestions? What is the purpose - keeping the wires from shorting out, or is it super important to have the staples in place to keep the lamp socket from moving around?

    If you don't have a long nose pneumatic stapler in your shop, you can use your diags to lift one staple leg for lead removal, then tap it back down to secure the new leads.

    I've done that when doing "on location" repairs.

    The staples keep the leads from shorting against the pop bracket.

    2 months later
    #100 10 years ago

    Great contribution and pics Ken.

    Thank you!

    2 weeks later
    #103 10 years ago

    Take the pop apart and see how it is different than the other 2.

    It could be cracked, wrong spring, wrong wafer.......

    #104 10 years ago

    Post pictures so we can see what is wrong.

    #107 10 years ago

    Yep there is a longer ring and rod for a bunch of Gotlieb years.

    Your easiest fix is probably to cut a Coupling Nut to the additional length and use a machine screw to fasten the yokes rather than the lock nut.

    coupling nut-06.jpgcoupling nut-06.jpg
    1 month later
    #114 10 years ago
    Quoted from RudeDogg1:

    vids I dont suppose you have any wiring diagrams for firepower pops do you? On my project the pops that had supposidly been "rebuilt" only had some of the topside replaced. No lights in them the only wiring i could see to them was to one side (to the little metal tear drop shaped things) with a diode soldered to the other side

    Need a pic to know what you've got.

    #115 10 years ago

    Firepower pop lamp wire colors:

    Top Left pop = Red wire Yellow stripe and Yellow wire blue stripe
    Top Right = Red/Grn Yel/Blu
    Bottom Left = Red/Violet Yel/Blu
    Bottom Right = Red/Blu Yel/Blu

    The banded side of the diode goes to the red wires.

    #118 10 years ago

    http://www.firepowerpinball.com/ is the greatest effort "fan site" for any pinball machine ever.

    Excellent work.

    1 week later
    #122 10 years ago

    Thin staples need a stapler made for them. So you would have to buy both thin staples AND a new stapler.

    If you do lots of rebuilding get an pneumatic upholstery stapler, it has a nice long nose for extra reach.

    That vinyl tubing can be replaced with aquarium airline tubing from Kmart or any pet store.

    #125 10 years ago
    Quoted from Skins:

    My question is, from the factory, the clear tube didn't extend under and past the pop body. It should insulte the lead the entire length it passes under the pop housing, yes?/no?

    The factory is full of sloppy workmanship.

    It is possible that a short tube got mixed in and installed.

    The tubing **should** extend under the pop, but as long as it's secured against shorting out, it's fine.

    #127 10 years ago
    Quoted from Skins:

    For reference, here is the thinnest gauge staple I can source against an original staple. Will this be sufficient or is it to thick for some reason?

    It will be fine.

    Again, smaller staples would require a different, smaller stapler.

    Many of the original staples were plated with copper that supposedly kept the corrosion down and was easy on the stapler itself. I used to have a manual stapler that used them, but I'm not sure where it is now, or where I'd buy the staples.

    #129 10 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Any drawbacks to using the flexible wire lamp sockets other than the issue you showed on page one?

    Usually they lay to one side or the other, never straight up and centered.

    I'd avoid them for pop use, unless you are on a service call and they are the only thing you have.

    #135 10 years ago
    Quoted from rottenrobert1313:

    Now I'm working on my medusa. When I turn on the game one of the pop bumpers fires randomly on its own. I checked the switch to see if it's making contact with vibration and it's not. I'm really not sure where to look? Could it be in the board? Like a short to ground and fires the coil? I'm not sure how to go about this problem.

    That is usually the little disc capacitor that is on the pop switch.

    Cut one leg of the disc cap (NOT THE DIODE) and see if the problem is fixed. If it is, replace the cap (.047uf 50v non-polarized )

    1 month later
    #139 10 years ago

    I don't think anyone sells a kit for specifically for CV.

    If you call Terry at PL, I'm sure he can make one for you.

    #142 10 years ago
    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    Yea, I often wondered why Terry didn't have pop bumper rebuild kits like he does for flipper rebuilds...

    Probably because most pops are the same parts since the 70s, whereas flippers changed coil stops/springs/switches every few years.

    Action Pinball sells the entire assembly for many old games, but most people don't need to replace everything.

    1 month later
    #150 10 years ago

    I'd use the adhesive version, as like you have seen, the loose rings gather abrasive crud under them.

    I like the sheet Mylar you cut yourself:

    http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT

    2 months later
    #159 9 years ago

    You want the wires to be on the same terminal they were on before (banded or unbanded side of the diode) - otherwise you blow stuff up.

    1 week later
    #164 9 years ago

    Sounds like your rods are worn out.

    You can peen over the tops of the rods to try and firm them up, but for a few bucks, it's probably best to just replace them with new ones.

    #167 9 years ago
    Quoted from Fifty:

    They look fine. Are the rods supposed to be welded to the ring?

    They are usually "riveted" by being peened over onto the ring.

    They do wear out, either becoming loose, or the threaded end breaks off.

    At $4, they are a normal wear-out kind of item that you just throw away.

    If it was the last ring rod on earth you could try to peen it over again with a doming punch, or TIG weld it.

    #171 9 years ago
    Quoted from Fifty:

    If the gap on the solenoid switch is not very small, what is the best way to adjust it?

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518

    This tool is not too durable, so use it gently, but it works great

    #174 9 years ago
    Quoted from Topher5000:

    Hi Vid. I started another thread about, but this one's pretty active so I thought I'd ask here.
    My Gottlieb Raven has a dead pop bumper. I was wondering what I should look at first. After reading your guide, I thought I should make sure it's getting voltage first & then check the leaf switch & then the spoon. Does this make sense, or is there something else I should look for?

    First check your voltage across the coil.

    #175 9 years ago
    Quoted from Fifty:

    Uh... how do I use this? I take it not like a hammer.

    You put the leaf into one of the slots and GENTLY bend it so you close the switch gap.

    2 weeks later
    #179 9 years ago

    Lets see some CLEAR picture from a few angles - including the hole.

    1 month later
    #182 9 years ago

    1.jpg1.jpg

    When it came down to Solid State machines, Williams generally were better built vs. Bally.

    You could name a ton of junky Bally features like those tiny .1" header pins on Bally boards (or just the thinner Bally boards themselves), the terrible linear flippers with their little nylon button that instantly wears out, the foil covered cardboard "ground plane" in the backbox, or the odd solenoid expander boards that stop working when a 555 bulb mounted next to them burns out.

    But the one place that Bally totally trumped Williams was the serviceability of their pop bumpers. Most pop bumpers in the world require you to unsolder the lamp socket before you can perform routine servicing on them. Of course the lamp socket is buried and stapled as deeply into the underside of the playfield as you can get.

    From 1981 to 1989 Bally had an ingenious solution, allowing the entire pop mech to be removable in once piece. No de-soldering, no un-stapling, even the switch gap can be set with the pop just sitting in front of you.

    And, unlike Williams where you have to replace the entire frame and bracket when the coil stop wears, the Bally allows you to replace just the coil stop!

    The system is so simple, it makes you want to rebuild your pop bumpers!

    #183 9 years ago

    Here is an exploded view of the pop mech, as found below the playfield.

    You have your standard nylon Coil Sleeve, as used in just about any other coil.

    The Coil itself. The Bally coils are about 1/16" smaller in length than a Williams coil.

    The Coil Stop is actually replaceable without throwing away the entire bracket (correct part # for PBR: A613-113).

    The Wavy Washer is a type of spring washer that mounts the coil to the bracket.

    The yokes are interchangeable with Williams, but you probably want to keep the superior Bally Metal Yoke.

    11.jpg11.jpg

    #184 9 years ago

    Above the playfield you have the Ring/Rod, Wafer (aka Skirt), and Small Spring.

    These are all standard parts and can be freely interchanged with Williams pieces.

    13.jpg13.jpg

    #185 9 years ago

    Servicing the pop body could not be easier.

    Remove 2 screws and pull straight up.

    The 80s Bally pop bodies can take screw on pop caps, or caps that use the retention clips.

    2.jpg2.jpg

    #186 9 years ago

    On the bottom of the pop body, you can see the 2 male pins that provide power to the lamp socket.

    Clean these with a brass brush until shiny.

    3.jpg3.jpg

    #187 9 years ago

    The base is where all the action is.

    Note the female sockets for the lamp.

    5.jpg5.jpg

    #188 9 years ago

    7

    6.jpg6.jpg
    #189 9 years ago

    The Switch Stack is a crazy collection of different fiber spacers.

    When servicing the spoon or switch leaves, don't take the stack apart further than you need to.

    If you drop the stack, or indeed take the whole thing apart, refer to this picture to reassemble it correctly.

    Note that some spacers are actually thicker than others....

    Clean the switch contact faces by pulling a crisp $100 bill between them until the bill pulls out clean (without a black stripe from the contacts ).

    7.jpg7.jpg

    #190 9 years ago

    A standard Williams spoon is 1/10 the price of a genuine Bally replacement.

    They are interchangeable, as long as you slightly enlarge the mounting holes.

    Note here how the old spoon has grooves worn into it and needs to be replaced.

    8.jpg8.jpg

    #191 9 years ago

    Here you can see the difference between Williams and Bally Yokes.

    Williams metal yokes are always broken when you take apart a pop bumper; Bally are much better designed with their reinforcing lip.

    9.jpg9.jpg

    #192 9 years ago

    Although they look different, the Williams and Bally Yokes are interchangeable.

    Unless your Bally metal yoke is totally worn out, I'd keep it and just replace only the fiber yoke with a Williams one. The Bally metal yoke is much superior.

    10.jpg10.jpg

    #193 9 years ago

    As Bally parts are harder to find, people always ask if a Williams mech can be substituted for a Bally mech.

    It can, but you have to drill out the mounting holes on the Williams bracket.

    Also note that the Bally coils are 1/16" shorter than the Williams, so make sure you have the Bally coil mounted tight. Loose coils rob the game of power and cause parts to prematurely wear.

    12.jpg12.jpg

    #194 9 years ago

    Classic Bally pins don't like LEDs because they don't draw enough current to keep the circuit latched.

    You can easily solder a 470 ohm, 1/4 watt resistor across the lamp socket giving the circuit enough current draw to use LEDs.

    4.jpg4.jpg

    #195 9 years ago

    Reserved for pic

    #196 9 years ago

    So if you want maximum performance out of your Bally 80's pops, at minimum you will want to:

    1. Clean everything. All that black carbon dust is abrasive.

    2. Replace the Coil Sleeve. A new Sleeve will give the pops maximum power.

    3. Clean and gap the Switch Contacts. Clean switches give the game full power. Follow the gaping instructions earlier in the guide.

    4. Replace the Spoon. The old Spoon has grooves that cause it to have memory. A new Spoon will return the randomness to the game.

    5. Replace worn Yokes. The fiber ones will always have heavy wear. Wear makes slop, and slop robs the pops of power that could be used to drive the ball harder.

    6. Replace Ring/Rod if the rods are loose. Polish and wax the Ring so the ball will have less resistance and thus faster play. If the Ring has corrosion or a rough surface that does not easily polish out, replace it.

    Do NOT overtighten the Rod Nuts. They easily break.

    7. Check plunger tip for mushrooming or uneven wear. A tiny amount of mushrooming can be filed off with a fine metal file. Uneven wear is probably a sign that both the plunger and coil stop need to be replaced.

    8. If the tip of the Wafer is worn (compare to a new one), replace it.

    9. Replace any corroded or broken springs.

    1 week later
    #199 9 years ago
    Quoted from Ed731:

    Great guide!
    But I have a problem on my F-14 when I replaced the pop bumper...I get a knocker "Pop Bumper 28" issue on start up. I went thru diagnosis for the switches in each row and column from the switch matrix and they are fine. Don't know where to go from here. FYI - when I bought the new "complete" pop bumper it did not come with a "complete" switch (having something like 4 leafs) so I had to pull apart the old one and build a new complete switch. Took lots of pictures so I think I have it right.

    You might have to adjust the Scoring Switch gap.

    #202 9 years ago

    got a volt meter?

    4 weeks later
    #210 9 years ago

    Get your digital camera out, find the setting for MACRO (often a tulip flower for some reason), prick up the wires so you can see the colors and stripes, take pictures from every angle.

    Tape the wires that go to the same terminal together, peel the tape off after soldering.

    1 week later
    #212 9 years ago

    You can, of course, switch a #47 socket with a #555 socket.

    Do a dry run and assemble a #555 bulb, in that socket in your pop body with the pop cap.

    Make sure there is clearance.

    If not, then http://www.pbresource.com/sockets.html

    #216 9 years ago

    Just assemble the body, socket, bulb and cap on your workbench and see if it all clears.

    If using an incandescent bulb, make sure you leave 3/16" spacing so you don't melt the cap.

    You can also use a few small plastic washers to raise the cap up off the body, as long as there are no ramps or other obstructions above it.

    #218 9 years ago
    Quoted from Topher5000:

    I was adjusting the EOS gap & now one pop bumper fires when I hit the left flipper.

    Put a piece of paper between the pop bumper switch contacts and see if it still happens.

    Quoted from Topher5000:

    Also, sometimes the flipper stays up for a second. Is this the EOS gap, or is it something else?

    Usually that means you need to rebuild the flipper.

    Take the glass off and manually move the flipper bat through it's range of motion.

    If there is any resistance, you need a rebuild.

    -

    If the flipper sticks and stays up - kill the power. If it stays up without power, you know the problem is mechanical.

    #220 9 years ago

    If the pop bumper switch has too close of a gap, the vibration of the flipper can make it trigger.

    Pounding on the playfield in front of the pop can sometimes show this.

    3 weeks later
    #223 9 years ago

    Take some clear pictures and lets see what you have.

    How does the plunger tip look?

    2 months later
    #233 9 years ago
    Quoted from swinks:

    I have some issues with my congo that I just shopped and my pop bumper question is, are all the solenoids normally fed power from one particular side.

    One side of the diode.

    So if one diode was backwards, you would have one power wire backwards.

    Quoted from swinks:

    Also could a misaligned pop switch and flipper switch case the game to lock on 2-3 solenoids and fail the F108 fuse - secondary solenoid fuse.

    You can put a piece of paper between the switch contacts to rule them out.

    Are you sure you don't have a diode or power wire backwards?

    Usually the doubled red wire would be on the BANDED side of the diode...

    1 month later
    #238 9 years ago
    Quoted from Ronnie1114:

    Vid, any extra stuff to deal with when rebuilding late 80's Bally bumpers that have the moving cap on them?

    Just be careful not to break off the brittle old plastic tabs and you should be fine .

    2 weeks later
    #240 9 years ago
    Quoted from DropTarget:

    Any suggestions on how to loosen pop bumper (or any other screws) coil bracket screws that are so tight that the heads are stripping when I try to remove them?

    Often people loc-tite them so try heating them.

    If not, then grab them sideways with Vice-Grips and twist them free.

    Lefty Loosey.

    #243 9 years ago
    Quoted from DropTarget:

    My heat gun crapped out, do you think a hair dryer gets hot enough?

    Probably not.

    Soldering gun?

    1 month later
    #248 9 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Should the fiber yolk always be replaced?

    Yes, for 40 cents it would not be worth the effort to clean them.

    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Also, do these switch stacks look salvagable?

    Clean the contacts with a crisp $100 bill and you are good to go.

    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Lastly, has ANYONE developed a sure-fire way of holding that damn bracket tightly against the coil to minimize the "play" in it?? there is not much room to hold onto anything when pinching it tightly with one hand while attempting to tighten in the screws - invariably, it always moves around!!! Arrrrghh!!!

    Bally has the Wavy Washer, but for everyone else, you can just use a Bar Clamp.

    #249 9 years ago
    Quoted from supermatt:

    Is this necessary or can they be cut back and not be tied in to each other.

    If they are tied together from the factory, you will need to keep them tied.

    Otherwise they may not light up.

    1 week later
    #252 9 years ago

    I don't have a schematic to check, but are both pops supposed to have the same coil, or different coils?

    #254 9 years ago

    Do you have a relay burnishing stick you can borrow?

    http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/GC-ELECTRONICS-9337-/22-910

    1 month later
    #263 8 years ago

    Does the one that is wired backwards actually score when the pop is activated?

    1 month later
    #269 8 years ago

    It only matters on #44 sockets that are logic controlled, and using an LED.

    #555 sockets, the bulbs can be reversed.

    On pops that are just lit with GI, it does not matter either.

    2 weeks later
    #272 8 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Vid,
    I've got a Williams 1979 Gorgar, and it plays great. Pops play great.
    How can I make decisions about what to do or NOT do with the metal pop bumper rings?
    I'm wondering how to determine best course of action:
    * replace them
    * tumble them
    * leave them alone

    The pop rings are metal on metal abrasive to the ball.

    So, look at your existing rings.

    1. Are they loose? This loses power that could be delivered to the ball. Replace them.

    2. Are they corroded? Rough corroded metal scratches up the ball, the scratched up ball wears down the playfield.

    3. Are they super polished? Oftentimes the ball over the years has hardened and worn the rings down to a super polished state. You might be well served by waxing and reusing these rings.

    4. Are there hairline cracks where the threaded part meets the rod? Look with a magnifying glass. If so, discard them as the threaded part will break off within a year.

    #274 8 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    Vid, what are you using to replace the replaceable coil stop (part A-613-113) on 1981-1989 Bally pops?

    PBR stocks these, BLY-A613-113 ($3.51)

    Quoted from jibmums:

    BTW regarding you last post, I picked up a Centaur recently that had a gray PLASTIC pop bumper ring! Any idea where on earth that may have come from?

    Look on the bottom for the part number. The plastic ones cause less wear on the ball. Classic Stern, WICO and Allied had white or gray plastic rings.

    1 month later
    #279 8 years ago

    Bally screw nails are 1/2 the length of the Williams ones.

    2 months later
    #284 8 years ago

    Go into Switch Test and see if the switch is registering.

    #286 8 years ago
    Quoted from Keetur:

    Switch replacement time?

    Nope.

    Meter time.

    Turn the game off, and clip your meter across the switch leads in Diode mode (aka continuity mode), so your meter beeps when the switch closes.

    Look at your other working pops and make sure your switch leaves are on the correct side of the Fiber Yoke.

    Now reach around and activate the skirt. Adjust the switch until the slightest pressure on the skirt makes the switch beep.

    Then adjust the scoring switch by manually plunging the plunger.

    Again, look at the working pops if you need to see what side is where.

    f

    #288 8 years ago
    Quoted from Keetur:

    OK, the switch is making contact. I get a continuity beep when I press the two leaves/contact together.

    Is the skirt causing the switch to activate, or are you pressing the 2 leaves together?

    #292 8 years ago

    Run a jumper wire from the side rails (ground) to the NON BANDED side of the coil diode. Did it fire?

    If it did, now ground the TIP transistor tab of that pop's driver transistor. Did it fire? If not, then you have a connection problem between the driver board and the pop coil.

    If it did, now look at that driver transistor and the little pre driver transistor next to it.

    Testing TIP102 style of Transistors :

    Meter in DIODE mode.

    Black lead on center tab of transistor (there is a hole in the center tab - it's right on top of the transistor).

    Red lead tests each outside leg.

    Readings should be between .4 and .6

    If you reverse the set up and put the red lead on the center tab, the outer legs should read 0.

    Test your work by checking other transistors of the same type on the board.

    #294 8 years ago

    Test the transistors with the power off.

    1 week later
    #298 8 years ago

    I've never worked on a Kohout board, so someone else might have better insight on what transistors they use.

    #300 8 years ago
    Quoted from Keetur:

    If this was a pure Williams board, and the issue was a locked on coil, what would you replace?

    First I'd get my meter out and with the board unplugged from the harness, see if the transistor reads differently that the other ones next to it. If it is different, I'd replace it.

    #303 8 years ago
    Quoted from Keetur:

    I also had a chance to converse with the Kohout brothers down in Texas, and they responded very quickly. They indicated that likely the mosfet was likely toasted, and that they could either send me a new one, or I could opt to send the board in and have them repair it for $20 bucks including return shipping.

    Figuring that shipping is probably $8, that sounds like a great offer.

    #305 8 years ago

    Clean the contacts with a $100 bill.

    Tug on the wires to the coil and see if one is poorly soldered. Tug on the wires of the adjoining coils too.

    #311 8 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    Let's say, you got things a little scrambled around with your labeling...is there a way to check which wire goes where?

    The Power wire (the one that forms the chain from bumper to bumper), you will note, always goes to the BANDED side of the coil diode.

    A new coil could have the diode facing either way.

    So if you bought a new coil, you would not worry if power went to the right or left coil tab, you would only worry about the power going to the banded side of the coil diode.

    #312 8 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    So there are 2 pairs of wires that go to each lamp lead...does it matter which way the lamp leads go? Meaning, I have my pairs stuck together, those aren't mixed up, just wasn't sure if the lamp itself was directional if that makes sense.

    Some games, the pops are lit by the GI and thus constantly illuminated, so the wiring does not matter.

    Other games, the pops flash or turn on and off - here the wiring matters!

    #314 8 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    I "think" they are lit by GI and constant.

    Then you don't have to worry about it.

    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    How would you tell which side is which if you install new sockets?

    GI is usually AC voltage, so it and the socket have no polarity.

    If the lighting circuit did have polarity, you would pull the bulb and reinsert it 180*.

    #318 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Ok, all wires are solidly soldered to the coils, contacts are clean (they're all new) - my pops are DEAD. What next?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

    Give us all the details including switch tests!

    #321 8 years ago

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

    No one can give you an answer until you give us all the info.

    What board did you get fixed?

    Who fixed it?

    Did you check the transistors?

    Did you check for coil voltage?

    Did you check the switch test?

    #326 8 years ago
    Quoted from ts4z:

    I have trouble getting $100s from the ATM. In a pinch, will a $20 do? Will an old (monochromatic) $20 work?

    A brand new **crisp** $20 is good.

    So is a brand new, un-enameled, non-gloss white business card. Not a photo business card.

    #328 8 years ago
    Quoted from beefzap:

    What are the main reasons for sluggish pop bumpers?

    Replace Spoon

    Replace Coil Sleeve

    Clean and re-gap contacts

    #330 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Ok, under switch levels test I get an annoying beeping and Right Bumper 19

    That tells you that the CPU thinks that the pop switch is stuck ON.

    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Now, the fuse just blows immediately when i power on the machine.

    Sure, now the pop coil or the pop transistor (or both) is now blown because the switch was stuck on.

    #332 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    is the transistor/resistor(?) the banded metal one attached to the pops beneath the pf? Would I use the diode setting to test this transistor?

    Are you referring to a diode?

    #335 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    No, aren't there two resistors on the leaf switch stack?
    Thanks,
    nate

    Post clear pictures so I can see what you are talking about.

    Make sure they are focused and well lit.

    #338 8 years ago

    Top (looks black) component is a diode

    Center (looks tan) component is a resistor

    Bottom (looks blue) component is a capacitor

    #340 8 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Thanks, and I can test these on the switch stack with DMM, or unhook one end? What readings are "good?"
    -Nate

    DMM will test these good enough without unhooking.

    You have 2 working pops, so they will give you the proper "in circuit" readings.

    Other than the Diode, is is unlikely anything is wrong with those components (although possible).

    3 months later
    #344 7 years ago

    Add some fresh from the roll solder to the old solder, or put some paste flux on the joint.

    Old, oxidized solder does not want to melt at low temps.

    The new flux/solder cleans away the oxidation, allowing the heat to transfer.

    #346 7 years ago
    Quoted from HeatedCane:

    would this be the case with my flash pinball in the pop bumper needing the complex bulbs? because I put red single LEDs in the pop bumper and they don't work. if so what's a good place to get the complex LEDs?

    On Flash, some of the pop bumper lamps were wired in reverse, so the tit on the bulb is Negative.

    Go into lamp test mode and check with your meter.

    If its backwards, you would have to swap the leads on the socket.

    3 weeks later
    #349 7 years ago

    I think that's a 100ohm 5% 1/2watt

    #351 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinheadpierre:

    I still don't get it. How did you come up with the 100ohm 5% 1/2watt? I thought I had it with the 2kohm 1/2watt based on appearance.

    You start with the first non-metallic band.

    So the first band color looks to me to be BROWN (at least on my phone) so Brown = 1

    The second band looks to be BLACK, Black = 0

    The final non-metallic color looks to be BROWN, so that makes it the multiplier color of x10

    The last band is metallic gold, meaning 5% tolerance.

    I know, it's stupidly complicated, but at one time, high tolerance resistors were $$$, and apparently they could not print the values in text on them, lol

    11066_(resized).png11066_(resized).png

    #353 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinheadpierre:

    Aha - thank you. I think what looks brown on your phone might actually be red on my resistor. Thanks for the explanation!

    If we can't figure out what the color codes are (like a burnt resistor, or a color blind owner), we can cheat and look at the schematic (click for readable size):

    zz-williams-pops_(resized).jpgzz-williams-pops_(resized).jpg

    Here we see all 3 pop bumpers R3, R4 and R5 are 100ohm resistors

    #355 7 years ago
    Quoted from Alan51:

    So I replaced my 3 pop bumpers with new skirts, bodies and lamp holders. New bulbs too. Now 2 of the 3 won't light. I think they are soldered properly, but no matter how many times I resolder, twist the bulbs, try different bulbs I can't get them to light.
    Could there be something wrong with the lamp holder? Can't imagine what, but I can't think of what else could be wrong.
    Any advice appreciated.

    You did not say what game, what type of lamps (#555 or #47), if you are using real bulbs or LEDs, so.....

    If you want to troubleshoot something, you have to break it down to the simplest segments.

    1. Put the game in LAMP TEST mode so all the lamps are flashing.

    2. Using your meter, see if the pop sockets have power. If the pops light with the GI, put your meter on VAC, if the pops are computer controlled, put meter on VDC.

    3. If sockets have power, then try a normal, incandescent bulb.

    #357 7 years ago

    Go right now and get a meter!

    There is no way to service a pin without one.

    They are free at Harbor Freight, or $25 at Sears/Autozone

    #360 7 years ago

    You probably need a total rebuild to get rid of all the slop in the system.

    Sleeve, plunger, base, yokes - if everything is a little sloppy, you get a "tolerance buildup" of slop.

    #362 7 years ago
    Quoted from boscokid:

    Vid, did I miss the part where you said 80% of my time would be spent dicking around with staples?

    Use a nice, sharp scratch awl and lift the staples up.

    Lift them all the way out if you have a long nose pneumatic stapler to replace them.

    Lift 1/8" up if you are going to have to reuse them.

    Quoted from boscokid:

    Your pics have the playfield out but doing this in the game was not my idea of fun.

    If you have a rotisserie, it takes only a minute to pull the playfield completely out. Working while sitting is the nicest way to go.

    Quoted from boscokid:

    Would you normally cut the leads at the first good spot or would you completely desolder the entire lamp?

    If I'm reusing the lamp, I'll desolder. If I'm replacing it, I cut it out.

    Quoted from boscokid:

    Only 'issue' was having to readjust one bumper spoon a couple of times before it felt right.

    You can do that on the rotisserie also, by plugging in the playfield to the machine.

    Once you get the pops to "hair-trigger", its fun how great the game now becomes.

    =

    Congrats on getting it done.

    Next time will be 10x faster now that you are an expert!

    #364 7 years ago
    Quoted from boscokid:

    Seriously, I have to pull the interconnect board to redo J6 for the GI, should I just pull the whole thing out while its disconnected and align the pop bumper spoons? They seem right but the lower one did skip at least once in 50 tries

    Your goal is to make the pops "hair trigger" but not activate when you pound on the playfield around the pops.

    If the switch is missing from one direction, the spoon is probably not centered on the skirt pin.

    1 month later
    #366 7 years ago
    Quoted from jrobinso99:

    Apologies if this has been covered in the past, but I noticed a pre-assembled pop kit I got from PBL has the fiber yoke closest to the top of the pop instead of the metal one.

    Probably just some goofy kids who have never worked on a pin doing the assembly.

    Fiber yoke faces the coil.

    1 week later
    #369 7 years ago
    Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

    I wasn't paying attention when removing my pop bumpers to replace the skirts. Off of the lights there are two pins, one from the bottom of the lamp ( hot ?) and one from the surrounding case for the lamp (ground ?). These are connected to two wires, one with a resistor and one plain wire.
    Which goes where ?
    I don't believe it will make any real difference for incandescent bulbs, but know the LED's are polarized and I might as well put them back right.

    What game are we talking about?

    #371 7 years ago
    Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

    Sorry, Vid.
    Time Warp.

    Many Time Warps and other early SS Williams were wired backwards from the factory (no need to worry back then, because the bulbs were incandescent).

    So touch the lamp leads to the wires and test with a LED installed and turn the game on.

    Once you get it right, wire all 5 pops the same.

    1 month later
    #374 7 years ago

    Those coil stop brackets break after a while.

    I often see them with terrible welding jobs as an attempted repair.

    Check if your coil plunger is unevenly worn from the bad bracket. If so, replace.

    1 month later
    #376 7 years ago

    Test the ohms of the coil.

    It could have been partially unwound for more kick.

    #378 7 years ago

    With the power off, see if there are any mechanical hangups by manually pushing the ring through it's range of motion.

    3 weeks later
    #383 7 years ago

    Get a super bright mini flashlight out and re-center the spoon.

    1 week later
    #385 7 years ago

    Hammer them in with a punch so you don't chip the clearcoat.

    #387 7 years ago

    They do screw in as you tap them.

    They are designed for fast production, not gentle coddling.

    2 weeks later
    #391 7 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    So the thing that concerns me is the 2A-2527 plunger (made for AC powered coils) and the 02-3406-1 plunger (made for DC powered coils). Are they the same length and made of the same materials? Should I use the modern Williams parts (which I already have on hand) or should I buy the PBR kit?

    That seems like a fun call to make with PBR.

    1 week later
    #397 7 years ago

    If the solder is good on the backside, try a different bulb, or bend the contacts inside the socket slightly to make better contact.

    #401 7 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    The backside? You mean the backside of the socket?

    Backside of the playfield

    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    I did, I put a regular bulb too and It worked for a good 10 minutes and then it went off. So does this basically this means I don't have to replace it, just adjust it a little bit?

    Wiggle the bulb and see if the socket is bad.

    #402 7 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Let me ask you this: If I ever have to replace one, instead of pulling the staples and to remove the old socket leds, can I just cut the leads, leave the part of the socket lead that is stapled under the Playfield there and just run a new socket, and solder the new leads to the old leads left stapled from the old socket?
    I know that is not the best way of doing this but I don't have a stapler for wood and just need to know if doing what I just suggested would work. Thanks!

    You can lift the staples 1/2 way, replace the socket, then tap them back down to secure the socket.

    2 months later
    #405 7 years ago

    You probably need to buy a compressor. Even a cheap $50 pancake from HF will do fine.

    Your hand could never survive that many staples done manually; and the long nose staplers are not available in manual anymore.

    s-l16asdfsdfsdfsdf00 (resized).jpgs-l16asdfsdfsdfsdf00 (resized).jpg

    #407 7 years ago

    ebay.com link: Unicatch 22 Gauge 3 8 Crown Long Nose Upholstery Stapler

    They take standard 22ga 3/8 crown upholstery staples, often referred to as "C" or "7" size.

    1 week later
    #410 7 years ago

    I'd replace the diode on the coil as my first guess.

    #412 7 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Readings are good on it, but just replace it in case it's intermittent failure?
    -mof

    Exactly.

    I've had diodes that test good, but if I tug on them, they come apart.

    ....and while you are soldering, take one lead off the power to the coil. Play a few games. See if the fuse blows without the coil in the circuit.

    #414 7 years ago
    Quoted from LynnInDenver:

    Hey, Vid, got a question regarding switch adjustment. I rebuilt the pops on our Solar Ride. They work perfectly fine, good, strong, no sticking at all... except that from the very front, the best way to describe is it is the center pop acts "numb", the pop doesn't really fire when you hit directly from the flippers. I can fire it by hitting the skirt with my finger, so I know it's just out of adjustment.

    Try recentering the spoon.

    If it's a new spoon and not responding from one direction, that's usually the problem.

    #416 7 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    A few games in, so far - breaker still holding. Interesting...
    -mof

    Diodes are funky things.......

    1 month later
    #420 7 years ago
    Quoted from KornFreak28:

    Hey Vid,
    What are the correct screws used to secure the body and the base? I'm doing new bumpers on my IJ and the manual doesn't say. I threw the old screws in the trash thinking the manual would list the part number. Thanks!

    Are you talking about the nail screws?

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=240

    3 months later
    #437 6 years ago

    Use a "Rat-tail" or "Needle" file and open up the hole (only in the direction needed).

    HF has a whole set of them for $5 after your 20% discount

    https://www.harborfreight.com/needle-file-set-10-pc-69876.html

    1 month later
    #440 6 years ago
    Quoted from firefighter:

    I have just purchased a Time Machine and my first Data east machine so I'm new to this brand. I have a leaf switch broken off on the pop bumper and the book has no part numbers for pop bumpers. It has 2 switches and the one that is missing looks like a normal closed switch that the yoke touches when activated .I have looked all over and am at a loss as where to find this switch.

    Post a pic, because it could have been swapped out with anything under the sun during a repair.

    3 weeks later
    #445 6 years ago
    Quoted from phillyfan64:

    On my Mata Hari, I'm finding that one of the bumpers is not quite as sensitive or lively as the other 3. The bumpers were already completely rebuilt when I bought the game. I replaced the spoon and the entire leaf switch. I also added capacitors. I've adjusted the switch leafs and the spoon but it's not really any better. It just seems that on a soft hit, the ball sometimes will just roll off the skirt. It almost seems like there is too much play in the skirt if that makes any sense. Or the skirt may be sitting a hair too low to the playfield. How do I fix or adjust this? Thanks.

    I'd try replacing the skirt again. If the tip is poorly formed when new, it might not have the **reach** to activate the switch on a light hit.

    Make sure that the base and spring are fresh, not rusted.

    #446 6 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Vid, I'm building a custom playfield, and ran into a problem mounting the pop bumper today. I have some used williams mechs for the lower side, and I bought all new parts for above the playfield. After assembly, the stem of the skirt is too low, nearly touching the plunger, leaving no room for the switch. I compared the new skirts with another spare DE complete mech I had lying around, and it looks like the stem is longer than on the DE mech, but every place I can find online says their skirts are universal for all manufacturers, and I've found multiple pinside posts with people saying all skirt stems are the same length. Am I messing something else up here?

    Are you missing the skirt spring?

    2 weeks later
    #456 6 years ago
    Quoted from CUJO:

    I got a question rebuilding one of the three pop bumpers in my WCS94.
    Once I got the new ring assembly shafts thru the metal and fiber yokes and secured both nuts, it appears shorter than the other two pop bumper shafts in the pin. (see pics)
    I read somewhere they make this same ring w/ 1/16" shorter shafts and I think I got one of those rings.
    Question is what happens if I try to use pin w/ shorter ring shafts?
    I'm not planning to, I'm getting the correct longer shaft ring, but was curious why there are two rings with such a miniscule length difference? Is one for Data East or Gottlieb?

    Get a ruler out and measure those rings.

    Is it just that one set has more thread, or it is actually longer?

    #457 6 years ago
    Quoted from bflagg:

    Thanks for the polishing tip. I would have never thought of it, but it makes them so much smoother.

    Your balls thank you!

    1 week later
    #464 6 years ago
    Quoted from RoyGBev:

    So what about those plastic pop bumper rings on classic Sterns? Note this comment:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/quicksilver-club-all-welcome#post-3027805
    What are the pros and cons of these? I'd think they'd be easier on a ball than even polished metal rings, and probably lighter too

    Plastic bumper rings are the ultimate.

    Quoted from RoyGBev:

    But if they're so great there must be a good reason I don't see them everywhere, right?

    Stern Electronics went out of biz 35 years ago

    1 month later
    #476 6 years ago

    High end auto brake lines are dipped in melted Nylon to keep them from collecting crap, maybe someone in that field could dip some pop-rings.

    4 weeks later
    #482 6 years ago

    Drop them ring side up into your vise. Close the jaws until they almost grip the rods.

    Re-peen the heads with one or two taps, install.

    (remember, these are made from super soft steel so they don't chew up your balls. Handle with care, don't over-tighten, just snug them. )

    3 weeks later
    #487 6 years ago
    Quoted from A2Woodz:

    Vid,
    Here is a picture of some screws placed in the playfield. I'm guessing someone did it because of a malfunctioning pop bumper?

    Yeah, probably the ball was hanging up there if the pop was not firing.

    Of course the heads of those screws were just tearing up the balls (especially in the pop pit!), so make sure you remove those screws, tap a bamboo skewer into the holes (cut flush with wire cutters) , and cover with a small piece of mylar.

    Install new balls, of course.

    #490 6 years ago
    Quoted from DCRand:

    What is it with, not to be unkind - or actually to really be unkind- these idiots putting screw holes in perfectly good play fields?

    It's like my neighbor the sheriff always says, "Stupid people do stupid things".

    #491 6 years ago
    Quoted from La_Porta:

    Question for you Vid:
    I had a fuse blow on my right lower Firepower pop bumper circuit (I installed the mod that fuses the solenoids on the J12 connector). This has not happened before I installed my restored play field, and rebuilt the pops per your guide here. I made them extra sensitive: the game rocks, those things are firing constantly and bouncing the ball all over the place! However, I wonder if, because of Firepower's configuration of the four pops in a square, when the ball repeatedly bounces back and forth between two of them very quickly, that it almost causes the circuit to be closed for too long, resulting in the blown fuse. Could this be the case? I have looked over everything else, and cannot find any other issue.
    The installed fuses from the kit are 1.25 A.

    Sometimes, it is "just the fuse".

    Replace the fuse and see if it happens again.

    1 month later
    #493 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    All right so I just finished my first restore, and I am having a hell of a time getting the pops to fire when the ball hits the skirt.
    The skirt has movement and I can see the pin, but it is not hitting the spoon. This is a WPC95 game, so it’s all fairly standard stuff. Do I need to check the alignment, or should I try bending the switch ? Not sure what I’m doing wrong here. I used the light trick for alignment and it looks like it’s on there ok

    Does it fire with your finger?

    Is it a new skirt and spoon, or are some the parts old?

    Did you clean the switch contacts with a $100 bill?

    #495 6 years ago

    ^ Then make the switch gap smaller and you should be all set.

    $100 bills are crisp and perfectly abrasive with just enough flair for a well heeled pintech.

    1 month later
    #506 5 years ago

    Yep, if you make them more than snug, they sheer right off.

    1 month later
    #508 5 years ago

    That is from Stern Spiderman? I don't think they are from the pops.....

    #510 5 years ago
    Quoted from Broohaha:

    Is it possible the switches for sandman just need to be replaced?

    Go into Switch Test and see what you got.

    2 months later
    #515 5 years ago
    Quoted from mollyspub:

    Thanks! Can I use a metal liquid polish instead?

    You can, but you'll have to sand through 2000 grit first.

    #516 5 years ago
    Quoted from mollyspub:

    What do you mean by sanding through 2000 grit? Are you referring to the type of sandpaper?

    Yes.

    Sand 240, then 500, then 1000, then 1500 then 2000 grit sandpaper.

    At that point you can probably get a mirror finish with Fritz.

    1 month later
    #523 5 years ago

    Every fair sized city has a motor rewinding shop, they will probably just give you a scrap of bakelite (if you tell them about your 30s drill press).

    OTOH, although it's certainly fun to restore an old motor like that, you may just want to let them fix it.

    They have a high voltage Surge tester that can find tiny breaks in the winding insulation that you would not be able to find at home.

    Most motor joints will test, terminate and replace the bearings for ~50$

    Find the shop in the worst part of town, not the fancy industrial park, for the best price/service.

    3 months later
    #544 5 years ago
    Quoted from jeffr:

    Investigation revealed that the metal ring posts are scraping the body on all three of them. I had replaced both the rings and the body (and of course, I don't have the originals to compare with). Has anyone ever seen that before... and what would the solution be?

    You probably need to rebuild the moving parts.

    Every old part has a tiny amount of slop, and this adds up to a lot of slop (tolerance build up) - so much slop that the rings touch the body.

    Even the coil stop might be worn at an angle, causing the new ring to rub.

    Now with the plunger, both yokes, sleeve and washers replaced; manually work the popper, and make sure that the ring does not touch the body.
    146193ab319db28ff1f4311b8af1ed93cdefc804 (resized).jpg146193ab319db28ff1f4311b8af1ed93cdefc804 (resized).jpg

    #547 5 years ago
    Quoted from rlbohon3:

    I'm not sure what I did wrong or which part may have been out of spec to cause the dusting.

    Holes in the playfield might be drilled slightly off, Ring/Rods might be out of square, coil stop worn....endless possibilities

    1 year later
    #582 3 years ago
    Quoted from Evangelist:

    On my Scared Stiff the insulate tubing seems to only be on the “driven lead” (black+*) which is connected back to the board which grounds rather than the common +ve lead (red+white)....

    I was just wondering why only one lead? Surely either can short?

    If rebuilding would you add shrink tubing to both leads?

    Often the lead that runs between the metal pop bracket legs, gets insulated.

    You can use shrink tubing, or just aquarium airline tubing like the factory used.

    #583 3 years ago
    Quoted from paynemic:

    So I’m rebuilding Gorgar pops. I labeled the wires, but is the lamp socket directional? If I put led lamps in does that effect it?

    It only matters with LEDs.

    If you are using incandescent, they will switch on or off with either polarity.

    If you are using fancy LEDs that have their own internal rectifier, they will switch on or off with either polarity.

    BUT, if you have simple LEDs, they won't switch on if the #44 socket is backwards.

    -

    Whenever you hear someone say "My pop lamps turn on and off with incandescent but not LEDs!!!" , you know the sockets have at some point been wired backwards.

    You can either flip the socket and solder them back in, or get some bi-polar LEDs that have their own little rectifier chip inside them.

    If the LED description says "Our LEDs are internally rectified.", you found the right ones

    #586 3 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    I wanted to call your attention to two new products I had the molds created for. Both in PolyCarbonate in several colors. Unlike previous parts; we offer both pointed and un-pointed skirts.

    Those look spectacular, John!

    Making the skirts with the points is perfect for games like SpaceInvaders, SBM and even AFM where a slow roll feed can hang up

    Now the only thing that every pinhead is salivating for is pop bodies for the pre 80s games (although they still used them for newer titles like CV)

    bumper body - old style (resized).jpgbumper body - old style (resized).jpg

    They use the same base as you are already making, but fit the classic caps

    You know every Xenon, Future Spa, & Playboy owner would go nuts for translucent bodies

    The current reproductions are opaque white for some reason, and don't transmit any light to the playfield. The originals were translucent white, but have obviously turned yellow.

    #589 3 years ago

    You can see that both size pop bodies use the same base

    But the cap lip are 2-1/8" for the pre 1980, and 1-5/8" for the latter day Williams

    IMG_20201114_124027 (resized).jpgIMG_20201114_124027 (resized).jpg
    #590 3 years ago

    Of course, one could just fabricate an adapter ring that would only add 1mm in height, to interface the new style body to the classic cap.

    If it were made from clear plastic, it could match any color cap or base, since the player cant see it when installed.

    Here it is in white:
    IMG_20201114_135720 (resized).jpgIMG_20201114_135720 (resized).jpg

    #591 3 years ago

    This might give a better view.

    The adapter ring screws to the pop body using flat top, recessed philips screws, and the pop cap screws to the adapter ring with the normal cap screws

    IMG_20201114_135743 (resized).jpgIMG_20201114_135743 (resized).jpg

    #593 3 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    There's also two different heights for the newer narrow bodies

    it seems that the reproduction "williams" bodies are a hair taller, and completely opaque

    John's, reproduction from PL, genuine Williams 1988

    IMG_20201114_170229 (resized).jpgIMG_20201114_170229 (resized).jpg
    1 month later
    #602 3 years ago
    Quoted from Quadrider:

    I swear, These vid guides are absolute life savers. Thanks Vid!
    Question on the spoon/leaf switch replacement assemblies.... My Jack*Bot manual is calling for a B-12030-2 replacement, however multiple websites including PBL & Action are listing the A-12030-3 as the correct replacement for J*B. Is there any difference between A-12030-3 and B-12030-2?? Will either one work? 
    On Actions listing for the A-12030-3, they note:“Can use #B-12030-2 and reverse the mounting bracket.” So I presume the only Difference between the two are the mounting brackets??

    One is assembled left handed and one right handed.

    Of course, I have to ask; do you need an entire new switch assembly?

    Are yours missing completely?

    Because normally you keep the bracket, and just replace the spoon (unless the switch contacts are completely worn off)

    1 week later
    #605 3 years ago

    ^ have to see pics, but you should rebuild the ENTIRE thing.

    Don't count on anyone else to do the job right

    1 week later
    #615 3 years ago

    They might just be the wrong size washers that somebody really squished on there

    Put a drop of PB Blaster at the joint, and see if you can twist the washers off with pliers

    1 week later
    #620 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    So questions, what is the best way to keep the ball from making the chip worse? Do I need to epoxy refill if I'm switching to a fin shank screw?

    At least you tore it up in a pretty hidden location!

    That is going to get A LOT of vibration and action, so I'd fix it with Bondo FIBERGLASS Resin (not regular bondo)

    Drill a few small holes under the chip for "tooth" and you will be set with the repair

    Touch up your paint, then let some 2PAC wick under those loose chips to bind them down.

    #623 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    I have 0 experience with bondo, any links to tutorials or any tips?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinet-restoration-vids-guide

    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    And any tricks to line up the new drill hole?

    bolt the pop bumper bracket on the top or bottom side. With 2 legs bolted on, the empty 3rd will be perfectly lined up.

    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    Will I need to cover the paint touch up with anything like mylar? Or just let it be until it needs a full restore and new clearcoat?

    I'd glue down those chips by wicking some 2PAC under them - otherwise they will go flying the first time you hear SUPER JETS!

    #626 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    2 part automotive clearcoat.
    Aerosol perhaps...

    I'd take 2 clean glass jars to any auto body shop and give the guy $10 to give you a few ounces

    Youd use probably 5 drops out of a $35 can of aerosol, then the can would turn into a rock in a few days.

    (although it would be fun to peel off the can once it hardens....)

    #628 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I absolutely agree.
    Theres clearcoat available everywhere if you just ask around most paint/body shops.

    Just make sure you tell them you are fixing an antique pinball machine - for some reason, that makes grumpy auto guys go out of their way to help you out

    7 months later
    #633 2 years ago
    Quoted from SMP14:

    This pop bumper will not stay up compared to the other 2. (see picture) Originally, the pop bumper metal rod/piece was a little shorter than the other 2, and I replaced that with the correct one. I cleaned every component of the assembly, got a new spring as well, although I did not check the size of the link. Its like gravity is pulling down the link assembly, but not the other 2. And, its kind of bouncy compared to the other 2. What am I overlooking? Thanks for your help

    Let's see some well lit pics of the mech below the playfield

    7 months later
    #640 1 year ago
    Quoted from Skybug:

    My only problem (right now) on my 1971 Gulfstream is two chipped skirts. The game runs great, despite that. But I'm afraid I'll find more issues once I take the pop bumpers apart.

    Just like fixing a motorcar, you always find more things that need repairing

    Quoted from Skybug:

    The rebuild kits don't include the ring/rod or new sockets (which seem to be out of stock) and I guess I need to get new spoons too? Isn't the spoon attached to the top switch (how?) and so maybe I'm missing something here...admittedly I only read the first three pages of this thread...

    Your old spoon, ring/rod, socket, might still be good, you'll have to look at it.

    Quoted from Skybug:

    Can I use elbow grease and polish the ring/rod with car chrome polish? I don't have a machine.
    Is it necessary to remove the whole bracket underneath? (I'm a little nervous about soldering/desoldering although I did it once a while back.)

    You can polish by hand with Fritz, as long as it's not too corroded

    You can use a Dremel and green compound too (if you have one)

    To get the skirt out, you probably have to solder

    Quoted from Skybug:

    Also, I'm a female, a senior, and I find the whole playfield way too heavy to lift, even a couple of inches to slide/lean it on the backbox. But it seems the sawhorse method would be easier for me if I got some help moving it. But then I'd need to turn it over each time I need to work on top/bottom...trying to figure out the best way to approach this...any and all suggestions are welcome!

    You might go to the next pinball league meetup in your town, and see if you can con someone into helping you out

    3 months later
    #648 1 year ago
    Quoted from LJ666:

    Hi there… is there a way to add spacers/washers to a short shaft rod and ring to mimic the longer A16634 rod and ring used in Gottlieb machines?
    I broke the rod and ring my Gottlieb Charlie’s Angels, couldn’t find a longer so replaced with the shorter standard rod and ring in hopes all would be well. It works but all attempts to adjust, it doesn’t work consistently well. Seems the ball hits the ring at times instead of the skirt at times so hoping I can add some sort of spacer like washers to make up the difference.
    Any thoughts would be amazing.

    You can use motherboard standoffs , they are 6-32 8-32 or m3

    T1QRoyXmtXXXXxQCI4_054151__26593_std.jpgT1QRoyXmtXXXXxQCI4_054151__26593_std.jpg

    1 year later
    #657 21 days ago
    Quoted from Gedc:

    Thanks for the guide Vid and the other content you produce. Made swapping out the bumpers a breeze. I'm doing a playfield swap on a BK2000. Have replaced the metal / fibre yolks and some pop bumper bodies. Everything else i've cleaned. It appears my switchstack/ solenoid installation is different from the guides and i'm keen to know if this was someone ' doing it wrong' in the past or an accepted way. The pops all worked prior to me stripping them out.
    In the guide it appears when the solenoid pulls up the plunger and yolks it drives the switches together to make contact. In mine, it appears the yolk and plunger hold the scoring contacts apart by bending down one of the switch leafs and when they get activated, they move up allowing the spring tension to close the contacts. I thought i'd installed them differently but have been back through some pics and this is definitely the way on my machine. Given it works is there a downside to doing it this way ? Thanks. Pics attached.
    The second pic (I) ref is one of the switches as it was removed from the machine. All have the tarnish on top from the yolk pressing down on them.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Great pics!

    It looks all good AFAICT

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