(Topic ID: 29731)

Vid's GUIDE To Rebuilding Pop Bumpers


By vid1900

8 years ago



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  • 630 posts
  • 158 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 37 days ago by pinzrfun
  • Topic is favorited by 704 Pinsiders

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    There are 630 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 13.
    #551 1 year ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    I'm about to jump in and do 3 pops. For my convenience as a reference, I created a Word doc with Vid's guide, plus supplementary useful information as noted throughout the thread (Bally Vs Williams parts, Bally 1980s pop bumpers, coils stops, the lamp wires, and so on). Its all organized into sections with a table of contents. Basically, pretty much everything from the guide without the extra comments and such. The doc is 27 pages long and has all of the pictures in it.
    I think I can attach here as a PDF, let's see if it works. EDIT - yes, looks like it worked, you can download PDF, enjoy.
    [quoted image]

    Nice work - thanks for posting this. I'm sure it'll be particularly helpful to folks wading into the project for their first time. Good refresher course to read through for more experienced folks, too.

    #552 1 year ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    I'm about to jump in and do 3 pops. For my convenience as a reference, I created a Word doc with Vid's guide, plus supplementary useful information as noted throughout the thread (Bally Vs Williams parts, Bally 1980s pop bumpers, coils stops, the lamp wires, and so on). Its all organized into sections with a table of contents. Basically, pretty much everything from the guide without the extra comments and such. The doc is 27 pages long and has all of the pictures in it.
    I think I can attach here as a PDF, let's see if it works. EDIT - yes, looks like it worked, you can download PDF, enjoy.
    [quoted image]

    +1
    I replaced all 3 Jack*Bot's pop bumpers last January. I'll download, and read plus look at pictures too. Thanks

    2 weeks later
    #553 1 year ago

    Hi All,

    Just a few questions if anyone can help please

    On my HS all 3 pop bumper coil diodes are at the top by the plunger stop, and some of the other coils like hideouts but some are like the Flippers, away from the stops.

    So the question is, is this right or should I mount all the coils like the flipper coils with the diodes at the opposite end to the plunger stop.

    Also my manual doesn't have the wiring for the pops, so I don't know what caps to order. As the ones on there look like they've seen better days, so if anyone one has the wiring for the pop bumpers would be great.

    Thank you for any help on these questions

    1 month later
    #554 1 year ago

    I just rebuilt the pop bumpers on a friends Future Spa. This guide was a huge help. I followed it pretty much exactly. 2 issues. The new bayonet lamp sockets don’t seem to hold the bulbs as tight as the old sockets did. I tried pushing up on the little tab. It seems some bulbs just fit tighter than others. Also, trying to slightly lift the old staples to reuse them is much easier said then done. I need to invest in a stapler. I gave up trying to pry them up. I wound up soldering the new lamp legs to a piece of the old legs that I left under the staples.

    4 months later
    #555 11 months ago

    So I’m rebuilding Gorgar pops. I labeled the wires, but is the lamp socket directional? If I put led lamps in does that effect it?

    #556 11 months ago
    Quoted from paynemic:

    So I’m rebuilding Gorgar pops. I labeled the wires, but is the lamp socket directional? If I put led lamps in does that effect it?

    Does not matter the direction of the lamp socket, just make sure the exposed wires arent shorting on anything. No real issues using LEDs, just make sure they aren't too big to fit under the cap. Some LEDs have polarity so if they dont work the first time after putting one in, flip it around in the socket.

    #557 11 months ago
    Quoted from Ronnie1114:

    Does not matter the direction of the lamp socket, just make sure the exposed wires arent shorting on anything. No real issues using LEDs, just make sure they aren't too big to fit under the cap. Some LEDs have polarity so if they dont work the first time after putting one in, flip it around in the socket.

    Thanks!!

    #558 11 months ago

    How much of a difference does installing new capacitors make to 80's Williams pop bumpers?

    1586402860411923698513 (resized).jpg
    #559 11 months ago

    trk12fire I don't think it will change performance. I just do it because the caps are 30+ years old, so they would be at risk for failure.

    #560 11 months ago

    what are those caps+resistors even for in the first place?

    #561 11 months ago

    zacaj I'm not a electronics whiz, but I believe it "smooths" the signal to the mpu when the pop is activated. Someone like grumpy would know a lot more about it then me.

    #562 11 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    what are those caps+resistors even for in the first place?

    A quick look at the schematics tells me they probably determine the shortest length of time that the special solenoids activate.

    #563 11 months ago

    I purchased them from Pinball Life, because the description says it'll bring your old pop bumpers back to life and give them more pop. I thought I'd give it a shot

    #564 11 months ago
    Quoted from trk12fire:

    I purchased them from Pinball Life, because the description says it'll bring your old pop bumpers back to life and give them more pop. I thought I'd give it a shot

    #565 11 months ago

    What is the part number of the flat metal plate in Data East pop bumpers? It's not listed in any manuals I could find.

    Attached is a picture of the plate in question. The plate is circled in red in the picture.

    Data East pop bumper metal plate (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #566 10 months ago

    I think, Based on the attached assembly diagram for the Data East "Jump Pop Bumper"
    that metal plate is either the
    Metal Yoke 535-5877-00
    or a part of the
    Bumper Housing 545-5100-00

    jump (resized).jpg
    #567 10 months ago
    Quoted from Dent00:

    Metal Yoke 535-5877-00
    or a part of the
    Bumper Housing 545-5100-00

    The bumper housing is the blue plastic piece on the extreme left side of his picture and the metal yoke is the slotted metal piece on the extreme right side of his picture.

    I believe the P/N for the backplate (which is used to mount the coil) is 535-7419-00. Good luck finding one! The old Stern "Thumper Bumper" (P/N B-695) from the 80's is a similar design and used a plate (P/N B-695-9) that looks eerily similar and in fact may be interchangeable but I wouldn't guarantee it. Your best bet is Steve at PBR - he's probably got both assemblies laying around or can tell you if they are interchangeable.

    stn-thumberplastic (resized).jpg
    2 weeks later
    #568 10 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    There is usually a little piece of rubber or vinyl insulation that keeps the lamp from shorting against the bracket. You can reuse this, or use a piece of shrink tubing or even aquarium air line.
    [quoted image]

    On my Scared Stiff the insulate tubing seems to only be on the “driven lead” (black+*) which is connected back to the board which grounds rather than the common +ve lead (red+white)....

    I was just wondering why only one lead? Surely either can short?

    If rebuilding would you add shrink tubing to both leads?

    Thanks

    Jason

    ==============
    Pinball Evangelist
    Spreading the Gospel of Pinball One Ball at a Time...

    ==============

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    #569 10 months ago
    Quoted from sudsy7:

    I believe the P/N for the backplate (which is used to mount the coil) is 535-7419-00. Good luck finding one! The old Stern "Thumper Bumper" (P/N B-695) from the 80's is a similar design and used a plate (P/N B-695-9) that looks eerily similar and in fact may be interchangeable but I wouldn't guarantee it.

    535-7419-00 seems to be the same as Homepin # 16 Pop Bumper Solenoid Mounting Plate.

    #570 10 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    same as Homepin # 16 Pop Bumper Solenoid Mounting Plate.

    I have no idea what that is without a drawing but if it's the same, you got your part.

    #571 10 months ago
    Quoted from sudsy7:

    I have no idea what that is without a drawing but if it's the same, you got your part.

    That part number is in the Thunderbirds manual on pages 29 and 30.

    #572 10 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    That part number is in the Thunderbirds manual on pages 29 and 30.

    Would that be for Thunderbird 1 or 2?

    72ED0BF2-0F74-41CF-AF3B-1BDB4C33CDD1 (resized).jpeg
    #573 10 months ago

    It's in this Thunderbirds manual (dated October 2018):

    http://www.homepin.com/kits/TAG_Service_Manual_Oct2018.pdf

    1 month later
    #574 8 months ago
    Quoted from trk12fire:

    How much of a difference does installing new capacitors make to 80's Williams pop bumpers?[quoted image]

    Did you install them. I just ordered some for my Williams Comet that I'm rebuilding pop bumpers on. My question is the original were non-polar/bi-polar and I can't tell from their website if these are bi-polar aka non-polar or polarized. I'm just wondering how orientated them?

    #575 8 months ago
    Quoted from Matthew2000tx:

    Did you install them. I just ordered some for my Williams Comet that I'm rebuilding pop bumpers on. My question is the original were non-polar/bi-polar and I can't tell from their website if these are bi-polar aka non-polar or polarized. I'm just wondering how orientated them?

    I just swapped some on my blackout, and it made a noticeable difference in the pop strength. Not crazy but, enough that I'll definitely be doing it on all my Williams moving forward.

    AFAIK, they're polarized. One end of the switch is connected to ground (black wire), so that's the side the negative lead of the cap goes to. I used 22uF, 50v electrolytic caps.

    3 months later
    #576 4 months ago

    On a game like TAF, going in there and soldering/unsoldering 5 pop bumpers (not to mention keeping track of the wires) is a real pain in the ass. I'm redoing a set now, and I'm thinking of using something like a Molex connector when I re-install them so I don't have to solder underneath the playfield each time - much easier to unpin/repin a connector IMO. Anyone done anything like this?

    #577 4 months ago
    Quoted from MintIndeed:

    On a game like TAF, going in there and soldering/unsoldering 5 pop bumpers (not to mention keeping track of the wires) is a real pain in the ass. I'm redoing a set now, and I'm thinking of using something like a Molex connector when I re-install them so I don't have to solder underneath the playfield each time - much easier to unpin/repin a connector IMO. Anyone done anything like this?

    High End Pins (HEP) does this on almost everything. he's got a big thread going and I'm sure there was a TAF in there somewhere. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18

    #578 4 months ago
    Quoted from MintIndeed:

    On a game like TAF, going in there and soldering/unsoldering 5 pop bumpers (not to mention keeping track of the wires) is a real pain in the ass. I'm redoing a set now, and I'm thinking of using something like a Molex connector when I re-install them so I don't have to solder underneath the playfield each time - much easier to unpin/repin a connector IMO. Anyone done anything like this?

    That’s become my standard practice for pretty much everything - pops, slings, flippers, drops, etc. It makes future maintenance SO much easier.

    #579 4 months ago

    Just realized I was a bit unclear - for the general wires, I am already putting on Molex connectors. What I'm considering is, doing something similar for the LED wires that normally get stapled and soldered.

    #580 4 months ago
    Quoted from MintIndeed:

    Just realized I was a bit unclear - for the general wires, I am already putting on Molex connectors. What I'm considering is, doing something similar for the LED wires that normally get stapled and soldered.

    My last few pop rebuilds I've been snipping those stiff factory legs off and replacing with 2 long pieces of braided wire, and just soldering it someplace more accessible than half an inch from the pop assy.

    I've also seen guys do that and just use a short pan head screw for the connection instead of soldering.

    #581 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    My last few pop rebuilds I've been snipping those stiff factory legs off and replacing with 2 long pieces of braided wire, and just soldering it someplace more accessible than half an inch from the pop assy.
    I've also seen guys do that and just use a short pan head screw for the connection instead of soldering.

    Yeah that's along the lines I was originally thinking. Now I'm thinking of using something like this splice connector: amazon.com link »
    Then I can just pop it open to loose the wire if I need to service the bumper. I'll probably switch over to the insulated wire-type sockets, since I'm not sure the standard thin flat metal leads will hold well in the splice connector.

    1 month later
    #582 3 months ago
    Quoted from Evangelist:

    On my Scared Stiff the insulate tubing seems to only be on the “driven lead” (black+*) which is connected back to the board which grounds rather than the common +ve lead (red+white)....

    I was just wondering why only one lead? Surely either can short?

    If rebuilding would you add shrink tubing to both leads?

    Often the lead that runs between the metal pop bracket legs, gets insulated.

    You can use shrink tubing, or just aquarium airline tubing like the factory used.

    #583 3 months ago
    Quoted from paynemic:

    So I’m rebuilding Gorgar pops. I labeled the wires, but is the lamp socket directional? If I put led lamps in does that effect it?

    It only matters with LEDs.

    If you are using incandescent, they will switch on or off with either polarity.

    If you are using fancy LEDs that have their own internal rectifier, they will switch on or off with either polarity.

    BUT, if you have simple LEDs, they won't switch on if the #44 socket is backwards.

    -

    Whenever you hear someone say "My pop lamps turn on and off with incandescent but not LEDs!!!" , you know the sockets have at some point been wired backwards.

    You can either flip the socket and solder them back in, or get some bi-polar LEDs that have their own little rectifier chip inside them.

    If the LED description says "Our LEDs are internally rectified.", you found the right ones

    #584 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Often the lead that runs between the metal pop bracket legs, gets insulated.
    You can use shrink tubing, or just aquarium airline tubing like the factory used.

    Holy &@$@ vid!

    Glad you’re back. K used this guide to rebuild pops and tweak the spoon to register the hits better!

    #585 3 months ago

    Great to see vid1900 is back in force. I wanted to call your attention to two new products I had the molds created for. Both in PolyCarbonate in several colors. Unlike previous parts; we offer both pointed and un-pointed skirts.

    Pop Skirts Skirts w/ Points
    Pop Bases

    More details here:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-product-lollypop-popbumper-skirts-amp-bases

    These would match our pop bumper bodies:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transparent-sternballywilliams-pop-bumper-bodies
    Pop Bodies

    #586 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    I wanted to call your attention to two new products I had the molds created for. Both in PolyCarbonate in several colors. Unlike previous parts; we offer both pointed and un-pointed skirts.

    Those look spectacular, John!

    Making the skirts with the points is perfect for games like SpaceInvaders, SBM and even AFM where a slow roll feed can hang up

    Now the only thing that every pinhead is salivating for is pop bodies for the pre 80s games (although they still used them for newer titles like CV)

    bumper body - old style (resized).jpg

    They use the same base as you are already making, but fit the classic caps

    You know every Xenon, Future Spa, & Playboy owner would go nuts for translucent bodies

    The current reproductions are opaque white for some reason, and don't transmit any light to the playfield. The originals were translucent white, but have obviously turned yellow.

    #587 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Great to see vid1900 is back in force. I wanted to call your attention to two new products I had the molds created for. Both in PolyCarbonate in several colors. Unlike previous parts; we offer both pointed and un-pointed skirts.
    [quoted image] [quoted image]
    [quoted image]
    More details here:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-product-lollypop-popbumper-skirts-amp-bases
    These would match our pop bumper bodies:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transparent-sternballywilliams-pop-bumper-bodies
    [quoted image]

    Awesomeness! Can’t wait to get a new game to mod up and use them

    #588 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Those look spectacular, John!
    Making the skirts with the points is perfect for games like SpaceInvaders, SBM and even AFM where a slow roll feed can hang up
    Now the only thing that every pinhead is salivating for is pop bodies for the pre 80s games (although they still used them for newer titles like CV)
    [quoted image]
    They use the same base as you are already making, but fit the classic caps
    You know every Xenon, Future Spa, & Playboy owner would go nuts for translucent bodies
    The current reproductions are opaque white for some reason, and don't transmit any light to the playfield. The originals were translucent white, but have obviously turned yellow.

    Ill have to second this!

    #589 3 months ago

    You can see that both size pop bodies use the same base

    But the cap lip are 2-1/8" for the pre 1980, and 1-5/8" for the latter day Williams

    IMG_20201114_124027 (resized).jpg
    #590 3 months ago

    Of course, one could just fabricate an adapter ring that would only add 1mm in height, to interface the new style body to the classic cap.

    If it were made from clear plastic, it could match any color cap or base, since the player cant see it when installed.

    Here it is in white:
    IMG_20201114_135720 (resized).jpg

    #591 3 months ago

    This might give a better view.

    The adapter ring screws to the pop body using flat top, recessed philips screws, and the pop cap screws to the adapter ring with the normal cap screws

    IMG_20201114_135743 (resized).jpg

    #592 3 months ago

    There's also two different heights for the newer narrow bodies

    #593 3 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    There's also two different heights for the newer narrow bodies

    it seems that the reproduction "williams" bodies are a hair taller, and completely opaque

    John's, reproduction from PL, genuine Williams 1988

    IMG_20201114_170229 (resized).jpg
    #594 3 months ago

    The modern reproduction opaque bodies were made a tad bit taller so that an incandescent bulb won't burn/melt the bumper cap.

    1 month later
    #595 80 days ago

    I am rehabbing a Target Alpha (Gottlieb 70's EM) and the metal rings on my pop bumpers randomly stick in the energized position after either of the bumpers is triggered. I've checked both switches on both bumpers - neither are sticking closed. I've checked the switches on the related scoring relay - gapped correctly and cleaned, not sticking. The action on the metal rings is smooth when operated manually - there doesn't seem to be any mechanical issue. The rings, skirts, plastic housing on each bumper is all new. When they stick, I can manually (with some effort) unstick them but it's as if the coil is still magnetized or something. There is resistance.

    What could cause this behavior? Is there a specific gap on the switches that I should be adhering to?

    Thanks

    #596 80 days ago

    so the lower switch on the pop bumpers (further from the playfield) is visibly opening on both bumpers when the ring is stuck down? Do they release if you turn the game off?

    #597 80 days ago

    Yes and yes

    #598 79 days ago

    Noticed that the stuck rings release when I press my flippers.

    #599 78 days ago

    The coil stop on the pop bumper mounting bracket could be magnetized. Sometimes you can use an old tape head demagnetizer to remove the magnetism from the coil stop.

    In stubborn cases, I cut a small circle of self stick clear mylar (like from those pop bumper protection rings) just big enough to cover the coil stop face. Before sticking that piece to the coil stop, I thoroughly clean and dry the coil stop so the mylar will stick properly. What this does is prevent "metal-to-metal" contact. Therefore, no magnetism to "stick" the plunger in the down position.

    1 week later
    #600 69 days ago

    I swear, These vid guides are absolute life savers. Thanks Vid!

    Question on the spoon/leaf switch replacement assemblies.... My Jack*Bot manual is calling for a B-12030-2 replacement, however multiple websites including PBL & Action are listing the A-12030-3 as the correct replacement for J*B. Is there any difference between A-12030-3 and B-12030-2?? Will either one work? 

    On Actions listing for the A-12030-3, they note:“Can use #B-12030-2 and reverse the mounting bracket.” So I presume the only Difference between the two are the mounting brackets??

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