(Topic ID: 29731)

Vid's GUIDE To Rebuilding Pop Bumpers


By vid1900

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 549 posts
  • 139 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by jeffr
  • Topic is favorited by 620 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 128 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    146193ab319db28ff1f4311b8af1ed93cdefc804 (resized).jpg
    20181117_191430 (resized).jpg
    20181117_191427 (resized).jpg
    F015B713-8F83-4811-BD94-8A6C9E54BA62 (resized).jpeg
    E8DCAF43-C631-4F75-906E-F6DEB8E063E4 (resized).jpeg
    B57C7E86-9AFC-492F-9244-65367B8A262F (resized).jpeg
    20180616_170238 (resized).jpg
    IMG_2981 (resized).JPG
    IMG_3815 (resized).JPG
    20180110_093330 (resized).jpg
    20180110_092110 (resized).jpg
    20180110_092030 (resized).jpg
    20180109_213956 (resized).jpg
    20180109_141056 (resized).jpg
    20180109_141130 (resized).jpg
    20180109_141206 (resized).jpg

    Topic index (key posts)

    2 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

    There are 549 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 11.
    #301 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    First I'd get my meter out and with the board unplugged from the harness, see if the transistor reads differently that the other ones next to it. If it is different, I'd replace it.

    Update:

    I spoke to Ed @ Great Plains, and he recommended an IRL 530n as a suitable replacement. I also had a chance to converse with the Kohout brothers down in Texas, and they responded very quickly. They indicated that likely the mosfet was likely toasted, and that they could either send me a new one, or I could opt to send the board in and have them repair it for $20 bucks including return shipping. I thought this a very fair offer.

    I am going to be brave, and attempt the repair myself, using the IRL530n GPE will send me..... Their boards are clean, and easy to work on. If I fail, I will send it back. I won't fail!!!!!

    So by this weekend I should be able to report back if I can get the pop bumper running again..... Fingers Crossed!

    #303 3 years ago
    Quoted from Keetur:

    I also had a chance to converse with the Kohout brothers down in Texas, and they responded very quickly. They indicated that likely the mosfet was likely toasted, and that they could either send me a new one, or I could opt to send the board in and have them repair it for $20 bucks including return shipping.

    Figuring that shipping is probably $8, that sounds like a great offer.

    #304 3 years ago

    Ok, my Taxi pop bumper suddenly stops - I can make it fire by pressing on the skirt. What happened? I have rebuilt these and they were working like a charm and super sensitive. Maybe I should clean the contacts first? Can I use a dollar bill for this?

    Thanks,

    Nate

    #305 3 years ago

    Clean the contacts with a $100 bill.

    Tug on the wires to the coil and see if one is poorly soldered. Tug on the wires of the adjoining coils too.

    #306 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Clean the contacts with a $100 bill.
    Tug on the wires to the coil and see if one is poorly soldered. Tug on the wires of the adjoining coils too.

    Will do, will let you know - thanks.

    -Nate

    #307 3 years ago

    Got a question, I ordered some parts from PBR to rebuild my Centaur pops and they were out of Bally plungers, so they substituted Gottlieb plungers instead which they said were exactly the same. Turns out all's not the same, they're a little over 1/32" shorter than the Ballys, and once assembled, the spring fully compresses before the plunger bottoms out against the coil stop, so there's some mechanical clunkiness going on that can't be good. It's only going to get worse as the plunger and coil stop wear. Short of cutting the spring, which I'd rather not do as it will weaken/slow the return of the pop ring, what can I do about this?

    #308 3 years ago
    Quoted from jibmums:

    Got a question, I ordered some parts from PBR to rebuild my Centaur pops and they were out of Bally plungers, so they substituted Gottlieb plungers instead which they said were exactly the same. Turns out all's not the same, they're a little over 1/32" shorter than the Ballys, and once assembled, the spring fully compresses before the plunger bottoms out against the coil stop, so there's some mechanical clunkiness going on that can't be good. It's only going to get worse as the plunger and coil stop wear. Short of cutting the spring, which I'd rather not do as it will weaken/slow the return of the pop ring, what can I do about this?

    Get some Gottlieb coil stops - the bolt-on kind. They're a bit taller than the Ballys so things should all work out just peachy.

    IMG_0179.jpg

    #309 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You want the wires to be on the same terminal they were on before (banded or unbanded side of the diode) - otherwise you blow stuff up.

    Let's say, you got things a little scrambled around with your labeling...is there a way to check which wire goes where?

    #310 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Tape the wires that go to the same terminal together, peel the tape off after soldering.

    So there are 2 pairs of wires that go to each lamp lead...does it matter which way the lamp leads go? Meaning, I have my pairs stuck together, those aren't mixed up, just wasn't sure if the lamp itself was directional if that makes sense.

    #311 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    Let's say, you got things a little scrambled around with your labeling...is there a way to check which wire goes where?

    The Power wire (the one that forms the chain from bumper to bumper), you will note, always goes to the BANDED side of the coil diode.

    A new coil could have the diode facing either way.

    So if you bought a new coil, you would not worry if power went to the right or left coil tab, you would only worry about the power going to the banded side of the coil diode.

    #312 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    So there are 2 pairs of wires that go to each lamp lead...does it matter which way the lamp leads go? Meaning, I have my pairs stuck together, those aren't mixed up, just wasn't sure if the lamp itself was directional if that makes sense.

    Some games, the pops are lit by the GI and thus constantly illuminated, so the wiring does not matter.

    Other games, the pops flash or turn on and off - here the wiring matters!

    #313 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Some games, the pops are lit by the GI and thus constantly illuminated, so the wiring does not matter.
    Other games, the pops flash or turn on and off - here the wiring matters!

    that's my concern. It's a Congo--not sure which category that falls in...I "think" they are lit by GI and constant.

    Is this a "things blow up" problem, or just switch them around if it doesn't work problem?

    How would you tell which side is which if you install new sockets?

    Pop_Socket.jpg

    #314 3 years ago
    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    I "think" they are lit by GI and constant.

    Then you don't have to worry about it.

    Quoted from Wickerman2:

    How would you tell which side is which if you install new sockets?

    GI is usually AC voltage, so it and the socket have no polarity.

    If the lighting circuit did have polarity, you would pull the bulb and reinsert it 180*.

    #315 3 years ago

    Well, an update:

    Indeed, I did blow up the mosfet on my new Kohout board. I replaced it with an IRL540. I bought an IRL530, but Ed sent me the more robust ones, and promised me they would work. I de-soldered the burnt out part, and put the IRL540 in.

    The other problem I was having was that the skirt was getting hung up on the spoon, on certain angles. So I loosened the screws to the bracket that holds the switches, repositioned it, and tested it. No more hang ups.

    I put it all together, crossed my fingers.

    I now have a 100% working Firepower.

    I want to thank Vid and all other posters that helped me through this. I bought this game for my son one year ago for Christmas. And now one year later, almost to the day, it works.

    I no longer fear the pop bumper. However I think there is a better way to do them. I am going to ask in a new reply. The lamp holder is a huge PITA. I have an idea.....

    #316 3 years ago

    Ok, all wires are solidly soldered to the coils, contacts are clean (they're all new) - my pops are DEAD. What next?

    #317 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Ok, all wires are solidly soldered to the coils, contacts are clean (they're all new) - my pops are DEAD. What next?

    And they fire when you press on the skirt? I say adjust the contacts to make them very very close so the slightest touch to the skirt makes the pop fire.

    #318 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Ok, all wires are solidly soldered to the coils, contacts are clean (they're all new) - my pops are DEAD. What next?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

    Give us all the details including switch tests!

    #319 3 years ago

    Thanks vid, I know, I know..............just exasperated. Had a bad board that is fixed, and now this!! I'm going to check the fuses first!

    -Nate

    Quoted from chuckwurt:And they fire when you press on the skirt? I say adjust the contacts to make them very very close so the slightest touch to the skirt makes the pop fire.

    Now, they don't fire at all.....first it was one, pressed the skirt, it worked....now they're all kaput/dead............the contacts are soooper close, they were working like a charm, built 'em myself thanks to Vid! All of sudden, crickets..............

    Enjoy Christmas however you do it.

    #320 3 years ago

    Ok, F3 fuse is blowing, found that that was blown, replaced it, turned game on, fuse blew immediately. So that's part of the problem.

    Visually inspected the pops, nothing looks amiss, no wires touching etc, etc, everything tight..........

    What's next to look at? Something on the board there?

    -Nate

    #321 3 years ago

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

    No one can give you an answer until you give us all the info.

    What board did you get fixed?

    Who fixed it?

    Did you check the transistors?

    Did you check for coil voltage?

    Did you check the switch test?

    #322 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Clean the contacts with a $100 bill.

    I have trouble getting $100s from the ATM. In a pinch, will a $20 do? Will an old (monochromatic) $20 work?

    #323 3 years ago
    Quoted from ts4z:

    I have trouble getting $100s from the ATM. In a pinch, will a $20 do? Will an old (monochromatic) $20 work?

    I tend to use an index card.

    #324 3 years ago

    The Pop bumper on my Vector was not adjusted very well and the ball would often not trip it. I could trip it if I pushed the ball into it or pressed on the plastic ring. I removed the pop bumper, adjusted it and replaced it again. Everything was working before I started this endeavor. Now after reassembling the pop bumper re-soldering the wires and powering up the machine none of the solenoids except for #4 (the knocker) work. Does anyone have a Bally Vector that could take a few pictures of the pop bumper wiring? I am thinking I may have hooked this up improperly somehow. I tried to post some pictures - but they kept getting resized and didn't show the wiring. I'll try again tomorrow after I've slept

    #325 3 years ago

    Here are some pictures of how I re-wired this.
    IMG_1375_(resized).JPG
    IMG_1388_(resized).JPG
    IMG_1376_(resized).JPG
    IMG_1387_(resized).JPG

    #326 3 years ago
    Quoted from ts4z:

    I have trouble getting $100s from the ATM. In a pinch, will a $20 do? Will an old (monochromatic) $20 work?

    A brand new **crisp** $20 is good.

    So is a brand new, un-enameled, non-gloss white business card. Not a photo business card.

    #327 3 years ago

    What are the main reasons for sluggish pop bumpers? After reading through some of the posts it appears to be correctly setting the solenoid switch gap?

    #328 3 years ago
    Quoted from beefzap:

    What are the main reasons for sluggish pop bumpers?

    Replace Spoon

    Replace Coil Sleeve

    Clean and re-gap contacts

    #329 3 years ago

    Ok, under switch levels test I get an annoying beeping and Right Bumper 19 - this was before the fuse at f3 on aux power board keeps blowing and no pops work at all now?

    Now, the fuse just blows immediately when i power on the machine.

    This all happened when I was fooling with the Lola lamp beneath pf - socket was not connecting with bulb, bad socket, socket touches metal of Lola drop target housing and *wham* lamp matrix fried at all the characters.

    Got the lamp problem fixed (components replaced on main board), re-installed board, pops are dead, dead, dead. Found fuse blown.

    That's where I'm at now.

    Visual inspection of red n white striped wire that powers pops looks fine - all pops look fine.

    thinking maybe some diodes bad?

    -nate

    #330 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Ok, under switch levels test I get an annoying beeping and Right Bumper 19

    That tells you that the CPU thinks that the pop switch is stuck ON.

    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Now, the fuse just blows immediately when i power on the machine.

    Sure, now the pop coil or the pop transistor (or both) is now blown because the switch was stuck on.

    #331 3 years ago

    Vid - tested the coil, registers fine on the DMM - is the transistor/resistor(?) the banded metal one attached to the pops beneath the pf? Would I use the diode setting to test this transistor?

    That's the one thing I have not checked out yet.

    I think I'm talking about the resistor on the switch stack - I haven't tested those. The transistors on the aux board all checked out ok??

    Thanks!

    Nate

    #332 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    is the transistor/resistor(?) the banded metal one attached to the pops beneath the pf? Would I use the diode setting to test this transistor?

    Are you referring to a diode?

    #333 3 years ago

    Ok - so I was thinking I may have rewired my pop incorrectly. Vid pointed out that my coil fuse must have blown since the other coils were not working in self test and it had. I double checked the wiring again and confident the pop is wired correctly I looked at the driver and found that the driver at Q12 was shorted. Replaced it and now all is well. Thanks Vid!

    #334 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Are you referring to a diode?

    No, aren't there two resistors on the leaf switch stack?

    Thanks,

    nate

    #335 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    No, aren't there two resistors on the leaf switch stack?
    Thanks,
    nate

    Post clear pictures so I can see what you are talking about.

    Make sure they are focused and well lit.

    #336 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The Power wire (the one that forms the chain from bumper to bumper), you will note, always goes to the BANDED side of the coil diode.
    A new coil could have the diode facing either way.
    So if you bought a new coil, you would not worry if power went to the right or left coil tab, you would only worry about the power going to the banded side of the coil diode.

    Thank you so much for this! I have found it very confusing when replacement coils show up with the diode facing the opposite way from the one they are replacing (confusing in that I keep blowing coils and transistors trying to wire them back in the way my pictures tell me to.)

    #337 3 years ago

    Vid, not the best pic, but you can see two metal "canisters" on the switch stack. Are these resistors?

    thanks,

    Nate

    b1_(resized).jpg

    #338 3 years ago

    Top (looks black) component is a diode

    Center (looks tan) component is a resistor

    Bottom (looks blue) component is a capacitor

    #339 3 years ago

    Thanks, and I can test these on the switch stack with DMM, or unhook one end? What readings are "good?"

    -Nate

    #340 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

    Thanks, and I can test these on the switch stack with DMM, or unhook one end? What readings are "good?"
    -Nate

    DMM will test these good enough without unhooking.

    You have 2 working pops, so they will give you the proper "in circuit" readings.

    Other than the Diode, is is unlikely anything is wrong with those components (although possible).

    #341 3 years ago

    Pops are back!! Turns out the knocker is on the same "circuit" as the pops and the knocker was blowing the fuse, unhooked the knocker and everything works.

    Need to test the coil in the knocker to see what's going on I guess.............weird............

    -Nate

    1 week later
    #342 3 years ago

    Thanks to this post I replaced a pop bumper coil in my Cftbl in no time flat. My lower pop bumper was dead as a door nail. I ended up keeping the bracket in place as I just loosened it in order to compress the spring and remove the coil

    Very easy thanks to the great guide.

    3 months later
    #343 3 years ago

    So I am trying to replace the dead bumpers in my Bally Star Jet and can't get the lamp holder unsoldered from the wires. This is the first time I have tried soldering or unsoldering, using a inexpensive soldering iron. Was able to unsolder one side of the holder but not the other, solder won't even melt.

    Any suggestions? It shouldn't be this hard should it?

    #344 3 years ago

    Add some fresh from the roll solder to the old solder, or put some paste flux on the joint.

    Old, oxidized solder does not want to melt at low temps.

    The new flux/solder cleans away the oxidation, allowing the heat to transfer.

    #345 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    The cap goes on with two screws.
    Again, don't put the cap on yet if you are using LEDs. Once you have the game powered up, THEN you will find if the bulb needs reversing (literally pull it out and replace it 180°).
    NOTE: Many System3-7 game where the pop bumper lamps are under CPU control (meaning that they are NOT part of the GI lighting circuit (on all the time)) won't light up simple, single LEDs. You will need more complex LEDs with multiple lamps because they have the little, on board regulator in the base.
    16.jpg

    would this be the case with my flash pinball in the pop bumper needing the complex bulbs? because I put red single LEDs in the pop bumper and they don't work. if so what's a good place to get the complex LEDs?

    #346 3 years ago
    Quoted from HeatedCane:

    would this be the case with my flash pinball in the pop bumper needing the complex bulbs? because I put red single LEDs in the pop bumper and they don't work. if so what's a good place to get the complex LEDs?

    On Flash, some of the pop bumper lamps were wired in reverse, so the tit on the bulb is Negative.

    Go into lamp test mode and check with your meter.

    If its backwards, you would have to swap the leads on the socket.

    3 weeks later
    #347 3 years ago

    I am confused by the bands on the resistor for my pop bumper switch. It looks like the first band is gold but what I am reading says that color codes don't start with gold. When I enter the color codes into a calculator app (I am unsure of how to do it manually), it says this is a 2kohm5% resistor. Is that right?

    20160520_121917_(resized).jpg

    #348 3 years ago

    I think I found it on marco

    http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5010-12465-00

    2kohm1/2 watt, right?

    #349 3 years ago

    I think that's a 100ohm 5% 1/2watt

    #350 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I think that's a 100ohm 5% 1/2watt

    I still don't get it. How did you come up with the 100ohm 5% 1/2watt? I thought I had it with the 2kohm 1/2watt based on appearance.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 96.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 49.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Medisinyl Mods
    $ 26.95
    $ 999.00
    $ 86.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Deadpool Premium Out of stock
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 17.50
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    $ 11,500.00
    From: $ 19.99
    Playfield - Protection
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 130.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Rods Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 25.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Filament Printing
    $ 89.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 11.95
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 10.00
    $ 229.99
    $ 35.00
    Hardware
    Filament Printing
    From: $ 11.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
    $ 25.50
    $ 999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 369.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 84.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    There are 549 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 11.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside