(Topic ID: 29731)

Vid's GUIDE To Rebuilding Pop Bumpers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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    Vids Guide Rebuilding Pop Bumpers.pdf (PDF preview)
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    There are 554 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 12.
    #501 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Seems like the only way to go - you don’t want to loosen those nuts, as they will definitely fall off

    Three washers seems to have fixed the issue -- thanks! Another trick to file away.

    1 month later
    #502 1 year ago

    I have a question about my globetrotters. I pulled the 3 pop bumpers off for cleaning and I noticed that the center one appears to be missing the screws that would hold it in place. But I am scratching my head how they could have been sheared off so perfectly without any other damage so I wanted to double-check that in fact this is bad and needs to be replaced!

    IMG_2981 (resized).JPG

    #503 1 year ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    I have a question about my globetrotters. I pulled the 3 pop bumpers off for cleaning and I noticed that the center one appears to be missing the screws that would hold it in place. But I am scratching my head how they could have been sheared off so perfectly without any other damage so I wanted to double-check that in fact this is bad and needs to be replaced!

    Yup, it's done. I've had several with one sheared, but not both. Replace it and any other worn parts.

    #504 1 year ago
    Quoted from mark532011:

    I have a question about my globetrotters. I pulled the 3 pop bumpers off for cleaning and I noticed that the center one appears to be missing the screws that would hold it in place. But I am scratching my head how they could have been sheared off so perfectly without any other damage so I wanted to double-check that in fact this is bad and needs to be replaced!

    Yep replace ‘em. Make sure you polish the hell out of them before you install them. I’ve had a couple games with this situation. I can only
    Assume the vibrations eventually just shear the ends off

    #505 1 year ago

    VERY easy to over-tighten as well.
    Please do NOT ask me how I know this.
    -mof

    #506 1 year ago

    Yep, if you make them more than snug, they sheer right off.

    1 month later
    #507 1 year ago

    vid1900 - I know it's been said many times, but your tutorial was indispensible for my pop bumper rebuild on SM! Thanks so much for spending the time to help the community. My pop bumpers are rockin! I would have never had the confidence to take this on blindly... (nor know about polishing the rings, etc...)

    Now for the embarrassing part: I had 2 screw left... Not good. Still trying to track down where these go. (Pretty sure they're not part of the pop-bumpers, but something else i needed to tear down in the process. The joys of being a pinball newbie!!!

    20180616_170238 (resized).jpg
    #508 1 year ago

    That is from Stern Spiderman? I don't think they are from the pops.....

    #509 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    That is from Stern Spiderman? I don't think they are from the pops.....

    Yes, apologies for being vague. Stern Spiderman. Agreed, I don't think they're from the pops. I'm beginning to think it's a coincidence. Is it possible the switches for sandman just need to be replaced?

    #510 1 year ago
    Quoted from Broohaha:

    Is it possible the switches for sandman just need to be replaced?

    Go into Switch Test and see what you got.

    1 week later
    #511 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Go into Switch Test and see what you got.

    Looks like it was the optos up in the sandman area. A light cleaning has greatly reduced the frequency. Need to find the time to do it properly... Thanks for the advice!

    2 months later
    #512 1 year ago
    Quoted from bflagg:

    Thanks for the polishing tip. I would have never thought of it, but it makes them so much smoother.

    [quoted image]

    I'm sure it states it somewhere but, what should I polish these with?

    #515 1 year ago
    Quoted from mollyspub:

    Thanks! Can I use a metal liquid polish instead?

    You can, but you'll have to sand through 2000 grit first.

    #516 1 year ago
    Quoted from mollyspub:

    What do you mean by sanding through 2000 grit? Are you referring to the type of sandpaper?

    Yes.

    Sand 240, then 500, then 1000, then 1500 then 2000 grit sandpaper.

    At that point you can probably get a mirror finish with Fritz.

    1 month later
    #517 1 year ago

    Hey vid, do you know what yoke fiber is made of, and where I can buy a small sheet of it? Or what exactly that material is called? I have an 80 year old companion electric motor that uses a small sample of similar material inside of it, that’s broken. I’m trying to fabricate that sample, and replace it. I’m in process of restoring it back to its glory days . Any info will help. Thanks

    #518 1 year ago
    Quoted from s2k4ary:

    Hey vid, do you know what yoke fiber is made of, and where I can buy a small sheet of it? Or what exactly that material is called? I have an 80 year old companion electric motor that uses a small sample of similar material inside of it, that’s broken. I’m trying to fabricate that sample, and replace it. I’m in process of restoring it back to its glory days . Any info will help. Thanks

    I believe fibre yokes are bakelite. e.g. http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=545-5609-00U

    #519 1 year ago

    Bakelite was an early plastic/resin material. Those fiber yokes and plunger links are something else.

    #520 1 year ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Bakelite was an early plastic/resin material. Those fiber yokes and plunger links are something else.

    But everyone calls them bakelite, like sometimes people call vacuum cleaners are Hoovers or all glass cleaners Windex? Ok. I can only go off what people call the stuff, like in the pinrepair guide he explicitly says he used Bakelite to make a flipper link (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/emflip2.jpg), and it looks the same as the material I have for older fibre yokes.

    Given s2k4ary is working on something that's 80 years old, isn't bakelite still a likely candidate?

    #521 1 year ago
    Quoted from ajfclark:

    But everyone calls them bakelite, like sometimes people call vacuum cleaners are Hoovers or all glass cleaners Windex? Ok. I can only go off what people call the stuff, like in the pinrepair guide he explicitly says he used Bakelite to make a flipper link (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/emflip2.jpg), and it looks the same as the material I have for older fibre yokes.

    Right, sometimes terminology is misused, such as battery "acid".

    Examples of actual bakelite: https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Is-it-Bakelite

    PBResource offers lengths of the fiber link material for sale--they might know the proper term for it.

    http://pbresource.com/tools.html#Material

    #522 1 year ago

    Thanks guys, your information was very helpful. I will look into links you provided to find similar material for my project. It’s part of restoring a 1936 Delta Drill press that had a Companion motor on it ( not sure why ). Fun stuff.

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    #523 1 year ago

    Every fair sized city has a motor rewinding shop, they will probably just give you a scrap of bakelite (if you tell them about your 30s drill press).

    OTOH, although it's certainly fun to restore an old motor like that, you may just want to let them fix it.

    They have a high voltage Surge tester that can find tiny breaks in the winding insulation that you would not be able to find at home.

    Most motor joints will test, terminate and replace the bearings for ~50$

    Find the shop in the worst part of town, not the fancy industrial park, for the best price/service.

    #524 1 year ago

    Great idea, thanks for the input Vid.

    #525 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Find the shop in the worst part of town, not the fancy industrial park, for the best price/service.

    https://mx.easa.com/MemberLookup/Active?

    2 weeks later
    #526 1 year ago

    vid1900 pop pinup

    Polished vs. original

    #Whirlwind rehab in progress

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    4 weeks later
    #527 1 year ago

    Can you help me understand when pop rings needs to be replaced? Mine seems always ok! Can I try this method of polishing on my old rings also? Thanks

    #528 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pesmerga:

    Can you help me understand when pop rings needs to be replaced? Mine seems always ok! Can I try this method of polishing on my old rings also? Thanks

    Bump

    Also I'm rebuilding my BSD bumpers right now but they seems too high when assembled..am I doing something wrong?? Parts are new as from manual and bought from best of pinball here in Europe..they are still not fixed to the pf by the screws but they seems too high anyway to me!

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    #529 1 year ago

    In my (brief) experience, pop bumper bodies and rings don't need to be replaced unless they are broken.

    I recently rebuilt my BSD pops and the new bodies from Marco were very inferior. After the rebuild, every time the pop was actuated the ring would shear off a tiny dusty shards of the plastic. the whole pop bumper area become covered in white shards and dust.

    I ended up cleaning up the old bodies and using the whitening technique with peroxide and sunlight.

    As far as rings go, if they're not bent or broken, why replace? Just clean and polish. I have read a million posts from people lamenting after-market metal parts that are totally inferior to the old original items. I have had this experience with flipper rebuilds, post screws, etc. not to bag on marco or pinball life, but I just dont think the new metal parts are made as well as NOS or just old parts that are not worn.

    #530 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    In my (brief) experience, pop bumper bodies and rings don't need to be replaced unless they are broken.
    I recently rebuilt my BSD pops and the new bodies from Marco were very inferior. After the rebuild, every time the pop was actuated the ring would shear off a tiny dusty shards of the plastic. the whole pop bumper area become covered in white shards and dust.
    I ended up cleaning up the old bodies and using the whitening technique with peroxide and sunlight.
    As far as rings go, if they're not bent or broken, why replace? Just clean and polish. I have read a million posts from people lamenting after-market metal parts that are totally inferior to the old original items. I have had this experience with flipper rebuilds, post screws, etc. not to bag on marco or pinball life, but I just dont think the new metal parts are made as well as NOS or just old parts that are not worn.

    I also think that replacement are not as good as original.. maybe this length problem in my bumpers is due to this too.. do you know if there is some way to solve it?

    3 weeks later
    #531 1 year ago

    Guys, recently rebuild the pops on my BSD..

    Not getting great action and I think the leaf switch is worn. So I am going to replace this (and the spoon, which I skipped).

    Can someone point me to the part number for this leaf switch in WPC? I cannot find in my manual or on Marco Specialties site.

    Thanks!

    #532 1 year ago

    Oh dear, I have broken bumper skirts on my Dr Who and somehow imaged they would be a lot easier to swap out than what it appears it will actually take from reviewing this thread. May have to shelf that idea for a later date...

    Great guide vid1900 !

    #533 1 year ago

    Yep neemypeemy broken skirt = bumper rebuild!

    #534 1 year ago

    If your pops are sluggish, be sure the cup is clean! I have found sludge and grease in the cups. If you are not changing them be sure to clean them with 90% isopropyl alchohol.
    They are horizontal and have a hole above them.
    Crud affects the post.

    #535 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballAir:

    If your pops are sluggish, be sure the cup is clean! I have found sludge and grease in the cups. If you are not changing them be sure to clean them with 90% isopropyl alchohol.
    They are horizontal and have a hole above them.
    Crud affects the post.

    Additional: sufficient crud in the cup can cause the coil to "lock on" with EM style pop bumpers (like used on Gottlieb System 1) - basically, the skirt "jams" on the crud and effectively sticks the switch closed.

    1 week later
    #536 1 year ago

    This video was very helpful!

    #537 1 year ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    his video was very helpful!

    That's a great video. Thanks for sharing!

    1 week later
    #538 1 year ago

    I did a playfield swap a few months ago for my High Speed and after dialing everything in, I noticed that there was some white flakey stuff around the pop bumpers. Investigation revealed that the metal ring posts are scraping the body on all three of them. I had replaced both the rings and the body (and of course, I don't have the originals to compare with). Has anyone ever seen that before... and what would the solution be? It looks like everything is assembled correctly, but there is definitely slop in the travel of the ring down the body and I could see how they would scrape. But I don't see what you can do to really prevent that. Is it just that the material of the body I purchased is too weak? Or the edges of the ring where the rods join the ring are too sharp? Seems like any contact would cause this, but I don't see the fix...

    #539 1 year ago
    Quoted from jeffr:

    I did a playfield swap a few months ago for my High Speed and after dialing everything in, I noticed that there was some white flakey stuff around the pop bumpers. Investigation revealed that the metal ring posts are scraping the body on all three of them. I had replaced both the rings and the body (and of course, I don't have the originals to compare with). Has anyone ever seen that before... and what would the solution be? It looks like everything is assembled correctly, but there is definitely slop in the travel of the ring down the body and I could see how they would scrape. But I don't see what you can do to really prevent that. Is it just that the material of the body I purchased is too weak? Or the edges of the ring where the rods join the ring are too sharp? Seems like any contact would cause this, but I don't see the fix...

    This happened when I rebuilt my pops on BSD. The issue is with the quality of the after market pop bumper bodies. I would send a picture and a note back to the vendor you bought them from. I think I know where they came from.

    After a hundred plays or so, the white dust will subside. It is just really annoying for awhile.

    Or you could replace the bodies from a different vendor, but of course you will have to cut your lamp leads again which is a pain.

    As mentioned by many earlier in this thread, quality of aftermarket parts has seemed to take a big hit in the past year or so. I think we as hobbyists need to be vocal to the vendors so they don't cut pennies on parts they are sourcing.

    #540 1 year ago

    Just wanted to say thanks again to vid1900 for this thread. I've done dozens of pop rebuilds but every time I come back to this thread to make sure I'm not missing anything.

    Mounted the pops to the new Spaceballs playfield yesterday and it went great.

    #541 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    This happened when I rebuilt my pops on BSD. The issue is with the quality of the after market pop bumper bodies. I would send a picture and a note back to the vendor you bought them from. I think I know where they came from.
    After a hundred plays or so, the white dust will subside. It is just really annoying for awhile.
    Or you could replace the bodies from a different vendor, but of course you will have to cut your lamp leads again which is a pain.
    As mentioned by many earlier in this thread, quality of aftermarket parts has seemed to take a big hit in the past year or so. I think we as hobbyists need to be vocal to the vendors so they don't cut pennies on parts they are sourcing.

    Yeah... I've got new bodies from pinballlife that look "better/different" and I'm going to replace them. The white dust isn't really subsiding, and the body structure is has been seriously compromised by the wear. Also noticed that I don't have washers between the rods and the mechanism. I'll be adding those too.

    #542 1 year ago
    Quoted from Elicash:

    This happened when I rebuilt my pops on BSD. The issue is with the quality of the after market pop bumper bodies. I would send a picture and a note back to the vendor you bought them from. I think I know where they came from.
    After a hundred plays or so, the white dust will subside. It is just really annoying for awhile.
    Or you could replace the bodies from a different vendor, but of course you will have to cut your lamp leads again which is a pain.
    As mentioned by many earlier in this thread, quality of aftermarket parts has seemed to take a big hit in the past year or so. I think we as hobbyists need to be vocal to the vendors so they don't cut pennies on parts they are sourcing.

    I had this issue and agree that body quality could be a contributing factor. My experience was that also replacing ALL of the other parts eliminated a bunch of little slop that when added together either created or exacerbated the problem. Getting rid of that slop helped. I can also say from experience that you absolutely cannot allow the rings to keep rubbing the bodies. On mine, the ring eventually wore all the way through the body, caught itself in the void it created and fried the associated transistor on the board.

    #543 1 year ago

    To prevent "slop" in the mechanical portion of the pop bumper, I replace the plunger, metal yoke, fiber yoke, coil sleeve, and rod & ring.

    #544 1 year ago
    Quoted from jeffr:

    Investigation revealed that the metal ring posts are scraping the body on all three of them. I had replaced both the rings and the body (and of course, I don't have the originals to compare with). Has anyone ever seen that before... and what would the solution be?

    You probably need to rebuild the moving parts.

    Every old part has a tiny amount of slop, and this adds up to a lot of slop (tolerance build up) - so much slop that the rings touch the body.

    Even the coil stop might be worn at an angle, causing the new ring to rub.

    Now with the plunger, both yokes, sleeve and washers replaced; manually work the popper, and make sure that the ring does not touch the body.
    146193ab319db28ff1f4311b8af1ed93cdefc804 (resized).jpg

    #545 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You probably need to rebuild the moving parts.
    Every old part has a tiny amount of slop, and this adds up to a lot of slop (tolerance build up) - so much slop that the rings touch the body.
    Even the coil stop might be worn at an angle, causing the new ring to rub.
    Now with the plunger, both yokes, sleeve and washers replaced; manually work the popper, and make sure that the ring does not touch the body.
    [quoted image]

    Parts ordered... I’ll update after the full rebuild is done. Thanks!

    #546 1 year ago

    I am/was experiencing the same white dust after rebuilding all three pop bumpers on my High Speed 2 Getaway. The rebuild was about 9 months ago and several hundred games played. The white dust stopped, probably because the ring wore through areas on the body it kept interfering with. Not good, but everything was replaced if I remember correctly (base, skirt, ring/rod, sleeves, yokes, new lamp sockets too). I'm not sure what I did wrong or which part may have been out of spec to cause the dusting.

    In my case, the problem sorta "wore" away and stopped so I haven't had an immediate reason to pull them back apart. Will do if a problem arrises but they seem to be functioning fine.

    #547 1 year ago
    Quoted from rlbohon3:

    I'm not sure what I did wrong or which part may have been out of spec to cause the dusting.

    Holes in the playfield might be drilled slightly off, Ring/Rods might be out of square, coil stop worn....endless possibilities

    1 week later
    #548 1 year ago

    great guide. thank you...

    #549 1 year ago
    Quoted from jeffr:

    Parts ordered... I’ll update after the full rebuild is done. Thanks!

    Rebuild is installed, using new body repros from pinballlife. So far, no dust. Thanks.

    7 months later
    14
    #550 5 months ago

    I'm about to jump in and do 3 pops. For my convenience as a reference, I created a Word doc with Vid's guide, plus supplementary useful information as noted throughout the thread (Bally Vs Williams parts, Bally 1980s pop bumpers, coils stops, the lamp wires, and so on). Its all organized into sections with a table of contents. Basically, pretty much everything from the guide without the extra comments and such. The doc is 27 pages long and has all of the pictures in it.

    I think I can attach here as a PDF, let's see if it works. EDIT - yes, looks like it worked, you can download PDF, enjoy.
    Vids Guide Rebuilding Pop Bumpers.pdf

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