Honolulu, HI
To the degree that personality matters, given the recent history and track record of blowhard egoist self-styled pinball magnates and revolutionaries, I'd say Turner's is an upgrade.
(Topic ID: 319325)
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Ninja Eclipse
Turner Pinball, 2023
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Quoted from SirScott:Weren't (some of?) those workstations pulled from the auction?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution/page/584#post-6833168
Does anyone remember if they ever got put back in? If not, his statement about buying them at auction seems a bit disingenuous.
(And I wonder if he also has the Jesus painting?)
I don't think any items that were pulled from the auction were put back in.
Can you clarify the disingenuous part about the auction statements?
Robert has the Jesus painting.
Quoted from SirScott:He said he bought them from the auction. They were actually pulled from the auction. So, maybe saying he "bought them from the auction house" would be more appropriate (if that is even what happened to them)?
Hmm, I'd have to go back to listen to hear what exactly he says he bought from the auction. I posted to the deeproot thread months back the list of items he purchased from the auction (from court filings). You could see if what's listed there lines up with what he said he bought from the video.
Quoted from SirScott:Here you go:
"I went to that auction and as a lot of y'all know, I bought RAZA prototypes. I bought a Food Truck prototype. I bought a whole pallet rack of the circuit boards. I bought workstations that had CAD files and manuals on assembly."
Got it. Could check the full auction results to see if any of the lots listed as his purchases in there line up. Not sure if I did screenshots of all of the items listed as his purchases or just the ones that seemed most interesting (all would be in the full court filing). I suppose it's also possible that he picked up additional things at the headquarters itself that weren't listed in the auction. From what I understand, the whole situation was pretty disorganized and messy, and I do recall hearing from some people about getting others things when they were there and walking around that weren't posted as official lots. No idea if that would include workstations/computers.
EDIT: Also, we don't know all of the reasons for the items being pulled. The auction house never explained or acknowledged lots being removed.
The theory was that some of them were removed because they were personal items. I assume this is the case for some of the decorative items, but we only know for sure about some of the items (the Jesus painting, Barry's toolbox) because sources confirmed with me where they ended up. It's possible others were pulled for other reasons and/or were pulled but subsequently sold directly rather than through the auction.
1 month later
1 week later
Quoted from Seraph:Or maybe TurnerPinball ?
Interesting!
I mean, I can always reach out to the guy. But I imagine he reads this stuff and is just waiting until he has ready whatever he next wants to share.
5 months later
Quoted from dpadam450:"I spent the last 6 months making a plan and putting together a team. I acquired Deeproots stuff."
There is no reason to burn cash, assemble teams of people, and get a shop together without even having an IP or prototype. It's like watching people go on Shark Tank and want 1 million dollars to develop a new soap. Just go out there and get your hands dirty. He said in the video he acquired some stuff from deeproot. Why would you ever give money, or even talk to the Deeproot guys. They are bad people. Associating with them, knowing just how bad they were is more than a red flag. Guess well see what comes in a couple weeks. If I had to guess there is definitely a back deal with Deeproot associated people hidden behind the curtain that will remain hidden. Why else would you work with them? If you like pinball and want to own a company, go build it. Don't make a deal with the devil on day one.
He didn't acquire any of the stuff from deeproot people (aka Robert). He acquired it through the bankruptcy liquidations and court proceedings.
Quoted from dpadam450:Ah right. I wonder what the cost was. I assume that the price isn't listed since its a private company's info on how they spend internal money, unless its public for bankruptcy liquidation?
Info documented in the deeproot thread.
Quoted from Seraph:Off-topic, BBJ, but I guess TPF is a bit too out of the way for you to attend. I'd like to meet the chronicler of deeproot's downfall in person some day!
Indeed! I'll actually be in Brazil at the time. Would be nice to meet up with you and the other forum folks someday!
Quoted from dpadam450:Ok so for $50k they got everything that exists. Someone at TXPF please interview and see what you can get to the bottom of determining if this company deserves any attention. That video update minus deeproot, still has red flags. It sounded (to me) like this guy is just blowing money and going to wing it.
FWIW here is his background.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cturner80/details/experience/
If you want to get in touch, he just set up various turner pinball social media accounts linked at https://turnerpinball.com/. Email or https://turnerlogic.com/contact/ works too. He's a very pleasant guy.
Turner posting additional updates to the new TP social media channels.
https://www.instagram.com/turnerpinball/
https://www.facebook.com/TurnerPinball/
Notably:
Screenshot 2023-03-16 at 7.43.14 PM (resized).pngTurner said however many months ago he would start working on a company and game and that he wanted to invite people interested in following along the journey to do so.
He offered to share his progress, solicit feedback, etc. He's local to the area where the show is happening and now has the beginnings of something for people to flip. So it's not crazy he's getting a booth now that he's been working on a team and game. Even if neither are too far along. Plus it will be the first opportunity to meet the community at large after introducing himself to the world.
I am sure he will not be soliciting preorder money at TPF. He'll have a booth and welcome the chance to talk to people. If I were at TPF, I'd drop by to say hi and chat. He's an interesting and pleasant guy who carries himself as differently from Robert as one can get.
No one is saying anyone has to like or buy his game. I just see no reason to act like dicks to him.
Quoted from dpadam450:"he wanted to invite people interested in following along the journey to do so."
I think the problem is he is too early and not far enough along with the game for how much experience and time he has. Hes been full-time for 6 months with paid employees now. Him+another hired person at Turner both had several years working at Deeproot. In this case he would have been better off waiting. Speculation will continue on for months and people will waste their own time. Another $8k+ game is a very steep hill to achieve to financial success and if the event happens that it doesn't work out, I hope nobody continues buying assets. Time will tell.
Why do you think he's been full time? I doubt it.
Quoted from transprtr4u:Also probably not paid as well...
He's doing the paying.
Quoted from dpadam450:"Why do you think he's been full time? I doubt it. "
Was my understanding from what he said in one of the videos.
This dude says he worked at deeproot and is working at Turner for 8months.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/quinn-johnson-mrwonderful/
[quoted image]
Got it. Thought you were talking Turner. Nice find.
That said, I also doubt Johnson has been full time.
Incidentally, every comment I've heard about Quinn present him as universally beloved.
Turner was the only person to put in an offer for the remaining pinball assets and ip. Anyone could have offered a higher bid if they thought Chris was getting away with a steal due to inside info. The list of what he got for that (I believe) $50k is a matter of public / court record.
Add that to the million in his winning bid for the insurance policies (also the only bid) and no one has sent more money to the trustee towards recouping losses than has Turner. So you'd think anyone hand wringing over the exploited little old ladies would be throwing this guy a parade.
David Fix talked publicly multiple times last year about wanting to acquire the deeproot pinball IP and assets. Work from multiple former deeproot employees who landed at American was included in the package that was made available to the highest bidder. No one except Turner submitted a bid.
Quoted from JStoltz:On the one hand, I understand them not having the time to go soliciting for more bidders. But on the other hand, it still seemed lazy to me not to shop around for a higher potential return on the sale of the assets.
Quoted from JStoltz:Yep, there’s no arguing with it. He won with an unopposed bid through the proper legal channels.
I was just saying it would not appear there was a better opportunity to get more money for the deeproot stuff. If AP wasn't interested in taking a $55k flier, who would be?
2 weeks later
Interview with Chris Turner from TPF from the pinball news + magazine podcast. Starts about one hour and seven minutes in:
4 months later
2 months later
Quoted from littlecammi:It looks like if you reserve Ninja Eclipse your cost is really $9927 (9777 + 150).
Per Turner Pinball: The reservation fee will not be deducted or credited to the price of the machine. We prefer a small reservation fee over a large deposit. This reservation fee is NOT a deposit and does not grant you any rights other than a numbered place in line.
Damn. I'm rooting for the guy. But unless the reviews of gameplay from Expo are mind blowing, fair to say that price tag makes for a tough sell.
Quoted from delt31:I watched that video and although he seems like a really nice person, it’s the definition of delusional. Thinking this can be successful with an unlicensed theme costing that amount from a start up.
It’s like people In this hobby like to make bad decisions and throw their money away. I just don’t get it.
In my experience, he is almost preternaturally nice. Which is why I'm bummed about these decisions (no coin door / app-required payment + access, smaller cabinet).
Quoted from dpadam450:Also note: from the website flyer he has 10 items claimed patent pending. Will try to look those up in a bit or if they haven't posted yet will be on the lookout.
If anyone is at expo can you ask about those items such as Backless Backglass and Self-supporting removable playfield?
Some trademark applications
https://uspto.report/company/Turner-Logic-L-L-C
Screenshot 2023-10-19 at 5.02.13 PM (resized).pngTheir team is clearly getting A LOT of feedback. And it sounds like they're receiving it constructively. I don't know who Chris has involved in decision making and strategy to date. One assumes he talks with a range of people. However, to make some of the choices he has and be blindsided by the reaction would suggest not all of the right voices are in the room.
I don't know jack about pins other than playing them. I can't look at photos like ForceFlow and point out potential problems with xyz. So I'm definitely not a guy to offer valuable advice on how and where to pivot. But my hope is that Chris can identify trusted experts in the field who can and consults with them hard.
If sufficient time, money, and patience, there's probably a different way forward to some kind of viability. But it feels like things will have to look very different from what has been shown thus far for that to happen.
Turner's youtube comment isn't deleted. And a lot of this commentary on the guy's character seems unfounded to me.
I'm not saying anyone should put down money to reserve the game or put down the rest of the money to buy. I certainly won't be doing either.
Nor am I saying that I think Chris and team are making home run decisions or have put together a compelling package that will get a bunch of orders. I don't think the current value proposition is there to attract many customers. I think too much attention during the presentation was focused on the platform when it should have been focused on the game and why it's fun and cool enough for people to want to buy it.
I'm just saying that Chris seems like decent guy who doesn't deserve to be trashed personally.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Having the audacity to ask that much for that thing is deserving of some trash talk
Welcome back!
Another clip. Player doesn't realize there's a separate upper-flipper button, so we don't get to see how well the scoop serves up a shot there.
2 months later
Quoted from ZNET:I disagee with you. All of the pinball companies since Stern (apart from short-lived Heighway and Turner) have selected non-surname names. Jersey Jack is more of an alliterative name creation than a family name.
If you think that a company's name (or product name) is irrelevant, you're oblivious to empirical evidence to the contrary. Go tell that to BackRub (Google's original name) or to the defunct diet candy named Aydes.
Certainly, a company's name isn't as important as its product or the service it provides. But, the name of a company is important. Even the name of a pinball machine can affect the perception of that game (e.g. Dialed In! was pretty much universally panned as a title for that game).
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/05/26/19-famous-companies-that-originally-had-different-names.html[quoted image]
I think I get your point. Hopefully there won't be an untimely Tyrner disease epidemic.
2 months later
Quoted from ReadyPO:Good on Chris and his team. This guy wants to make this a success. Would love for someone at TPF to post some game play.
I'll check in and ask them about that. Definitely the best way to ramp up interest. Brad Duke was telling me about the rpg elements of which I was not originally aware.
1 month later
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