(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs


By DumbAss

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 35 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 51 days ago by DumbAss
  • Topic is favorited by 27 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 16 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    boards_009.jpg
    boards_008.jpg
    boards_007.jpg
    IMG_2627 (resized).JPG
    boards_008 (resized).jpg
    S11_AUX_SURVIVED_WEEKEND (resized).JPG
    horror3 (resized).jpg
    horror2 (resized).jpg
    horror1 (resized).jpg
    boards_006 (resized).jpg
    S11_AUX_WORKING (resized).JPG
    boards_005 (resized).jpg
    boards_004.jpg
    boards_003.jpg
    boards_002.jpg
    boards_001.jpg

    12
    #1 5 months ago

    This topic is for discussing the test and reproduction PCBs that I have been working on and will be working on. I placed it in tech/generic although my experience is predominantly System 11 and WPC.

    The background is that I used some hillbilly engineering to make my own bench test rigs for initially WPC-89 and then System 11 and as yet WPC-95. I built some custom prototype boards to serve the purpose of testing on the bench but those boards took me about a few weeks to lay out (slowly in front of the TV) and then about a week to build (manually routing and bending wires, etc). This doesn't scale to building more test rigs (not that there's demand for that but when I got to building the WPC-95 one I didn't want to spend the time to build another prototype board). Instead I've spent about two months learning something new - more below. One week versus two months. Not very efficient.

    I'm not sure if there's a way to inline embed pictures so I'm just going to stick to uploading the pictures at the end of the post.

    Having said all of that ... away we go.

    The first two pictures show the prototype boards I built for the bench test rig. Lots of meticulous wire bending, routing and cutting. There was no schematic for these boards. I did the layout in notepad (a standard and simple text editor). Error correction took a long time.

    The third picture shows a bunch of small boards I had made to "get my feet wet". The ones on the left are general illumination testers. Two versions of a similar concept. With these boards and connectors you can go up to a machine and plug them in and instantly exclude the board or the playfield wiring for either J120 or J121 (as well as J119). The ones on the right are solenoid savers (I know barakandl makes these). I didn't make these to compete. I made these for myself and to make sure the fuse holders are correct. The boards in the middle are a reproduction of the relay boards in System 11. I've had a few of these burned out and wanted to start with something simple.

    The fourth picture shows the "professionally" designed test boards. One of the things I realized doing this is that the silkscreen is the best part. It allows the designer to put whatever notes they want. In the case of the solenoid tester I put the drive transistor on it so I don't have to bother consulting the manual and trying to find it when I'm testing the board on the bench.

    At some stage in the future I will get around to documenting the hillbilly engineered bench test rigs in a separate thread. There's been almost no demand for any information on this.

    boards_001.jpgboards_002.jpgboards_003.jpgboards_004.jpg
    #2 5 months ago

    And then I went a little crazy.

    The first two pictures show a reproduction System 11 Auxiliary Power Driver. I wanted to fix the diode issue (errant flashers with the flipper power stroke). I couldn't help myself with creeping featuritis and added a bunch of LEDs for diagnostic purposes as well as test points. Finally I converted the bridge rectifiers to discrete diodes. It was extremely satisfying to design, have fabricated and populate the board. The best part was putting it in a machine and having it work the first time with no revisions. In hindsight this board is not a bad choice because it's almost exclusively power and has no logic. It was however the second of the reproduction boards I had worked on.

    The third picture shows the first reproduction board I worked on. I chose this board for a few reasons. Every one of these boards I've worked on is a right royal P-I-T-A. The pads on this board lift so easily and there's nothing like the dreaded "Sound Board Interface Error" which I've had to deal with more times than I have enjoyed (read any amount more than one is too much). I actually have someone's board now that has this and I wanted a backup board in case I wrecked the old board. Another reason I chose this board is that it has logic and wanted to see how that worked - in terms of design and layout. The other final reason is that I don't like the original surface mounting of the PLCC ADSP-2105 so I replaced the SMD pads with a THT socket. I tested the digital side of that board on my bench and it works but I'd like to test the analog side although I need to finish the amplifier, heatsinks and capacitors to do that.

    I had both of these boards made in red because I actually think red looks cool although I know Williams used red for prototype boards and these actually are prototypes.

    What's next? Who knows?

    boards_005 (resized).jpgS11_AUX_WORKING (resized).JPGboards_006 (resized).jpg
    #3 5 months ago

    Finally ... I did explain in a different thread with respect to the System 11 Auxiliary Power Driver that I am not in the business of making and selling reproduction boards. I'd be happy to sell anyone interested a blank board with the BOM but I am really not interested in anything more than that. I don't want to rob people of the thrill of building and putting the board in the machine and seeing it work.

    As of the time of posting I have a few people interested in the System 11 Auxiliary Power Driver (from the other thread) and I'd like to wait a while before having more of them made to be able to send out to people. That's where the "have a little patience" comes in. I intend to have them made in green unless there's overwhelming demand for a different color.

    I'm not very good at tracking multiple things (I always tell everyone I know that I'm not good at multi-tasking). If you've requested something and I don't reply (in a reasonable amount of time - have a little patience) then I don't mind being reminded. I will tell you if you've overstayed your welcome.

    #4 5 months ago

    I haven't read the thread yet since it's so long but just looking at the pictures it looks like you've made at least one thing (the solenoid tester boards) i've been hoping someone would make so that I wouldn't have to have it made myself (since I have 0 design experience). I'll definitely be interested in those in the future.

    #5 5 months ago

    They look great!

    #6 5 months ago

    These look great. I'd love to have that sys 11 solenoid tester

    #7 5 months ago

    Nice!!

    #9 5 months ago

    Cool stuff! I'd be interested in the testers for System 11 and WPC

    #10 5 months ago

    Yeah. That stuff is amazing. What’s your background?

    #11 5 months ago
    Quoted from Langless28:

    What’s your background?

    Me? I have a degree in medical sciences but spent almost 20 years in the software industry progressively heading closer to the software/hardware interface. Near the end of it I (re-)discovered pinball and since then have gone further toward the hardware side (even though I have no formal training in either software nor hardware).

    I love learning new things and having spent a lot of time fixing broken and (alkaline) damaged boards I thought that it would be interesting to make new ones instead of fixing old ones. The board below (thanks to ForceFlow who will probably recognize it) I originally wanted a challenge to try to fix but instead of fixing it I thought reproducing it would be a better solution.

    horror1 (resized).jpghorror2 (resized).jpghorror3 (resized).jpg
    #12 5 months ago

    Interested

    1 month later
    10
    #13 4 months ago

    It's been over a month since the last post. It's been a busy time with Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show preparation as well as attendance and contribution. After the show I picked up some boards I was asked to repair and just finished dispatching them. I had been wanting to get back to diagnosing the most recent board I am working on and only just found the time to work through the issues. More below. I will try and not ramble as I'm known to ramble.

    Updates:

    - I still need to build BOM lists for people. Some of the boards are fairly simple and experienced people could work them out if the board is desired more quickly than I can provide the information.

    - For those interested in test boards the current system will be available but I also tried a new system at the show that is better suited to field diagnosis and testing. They are currently a work in progress. I will provide more information when I return to the system.

    - The System 11 Auxiliary Power Board I built spent the weekend at the show in my buddy's Mousin' Around and it worked fine all weekend with the usual show hammering. I have the BOM list for this ready but want to fill in potential merchants in some of the fields.

    - Finally the latest board that has been giving some grief is shown in the pictures. I just got it booting last night and put it on the bench this evening. Seems to be working at the basic level. The design has daughter boards and I need to verify the diagnostic daughter board as well as the audio subsystem (both DAC and amplifier). I have to figure out how I'm going to do that on the bench so there will be a delay.

    Apologies for my slow progress. Life happens.

    S11_AUX_SURVIVED_WEEKEND (resized).JPGboards_008 (resized).jpgIMG_2627 (resized).JPG
    #14 4 months ago

    So the new System 11 board set is all working (with appropriate corrections). Most of the revision 00 boards have issues. Most are minor but one is severe enough that traces must be cut and re-routed so the board set is not available until these are fixed.

    Here is a list of what are the modifications from the stock Williams System 11 board(s).

    - Modified mounting holes to "keyhole" style mounting holes.
    - Removed reset section and replaced with reset generator (supervisor).
    - Removed batteries and replaced with connector (optional installation if desired).
    - Modified some jumpers to be 0.100" pin headers (allows quick/easy change for memory size).
    - Added test points for +12V and -12V (in addition to already present +5V and GND).
    - Added high frequency filter capacitors to restore functionality for NLA OEM SRC parts.
    - Added optional installation points for lamp matrix MOSFET modification.
    - Moved some of the sound circuit to daughter boards.
    - Added daughter board connection for diagnostic digit display (System 11 - only).
    - Added daughter board for sound circuit amplifier (System 11 -/A only).
    - Added daughter board for sound circuit digital analog conversion (System 11 -/A/B only).
    - Added optional RJ-45 modular 8P8C connectors for in-machine solenoid diagnostics (additional diagnostic boards required).

    With these boards I also recommend a special solenoid fuse board. Pinball Electronics (barakandl) sells these and while I have had this board made I do not want to step on his toes so I recommend his board. It'll also be cheaper than mine because his board uses fuse clips whereas my board uses fuse holders and fuse holders are not cheap (typically $1 each).

    Pictures below show old and new (blank and populated) and the new board set (main board and daughter boards). I need to correct the problems and build a revised board to verify everything works before these can be made available. One nice thing about the amplifier being separate from the main board is that a board for a more readily available amplifier can be made (I did this with a TDA2030AL as a test and while it works it doesn't work the same as a TDA2002). I'm either going to have to do more reading or get some help on this as I'm no electronics (particularly analog) expert.

    If you have a tired, old or damaged board this board set is a great option for you. It uses 100% original components so there's no "emulation" of the CVSD. It *IS* the Harris 55536 CVSD that is being used.

    boards_007.jpgboards_008.jpgboards_009.jpg
    #15 4 months ago

    Following this. How does one get on the list for the boards. I am interested in this as I mostly have system 11's in my coection and love them.

    #16 4 months ago

    dumbass System 9 MPU would make a good follow up to your System 11 MPU.

    #17 4 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    Following this. How does one get on the list for the boards. I am interested in this as I mostly have system 11's in my coection and love them.

    If you're interested either post (which you just did) or PM. I have kept a list of people interested but I'm not super fast at doing things so please bring some patience. I'm doing this for fun, learning and to help keep machines going. Projects with no boards ... no problem. I'll just make the board!

    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    dumbass System 9 MPU would make a good follow up to your System 11 MPU.

    I don't have any System 9 machines but I do have a friend who has a friend who has one (Comet). I have that board with me at the moment. The boards are very similar but I need to figure out the display (it looks like it's BCD from the CPU and decoded by the driver to the display). I'll get around to this one (in the list) but I have a few other boards I want to get done first. The next is another sound board for a friend who has a machine that is missing that board.

    #18 4 months ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    If you're interested either post (which you just did) or PM. I have kept a list of people interested but I'm not super fast at doing things so please bring some patience. I'm doing this for fun, learning and to help keep machines going. Projects with no boards ... no problem. I'll just make the board!

    No problem. I enjoy fighting my boards to get them up and keep them up, so however long it takes. You are doing the community a favor so take as long as you want and you won't hear me complain. I have also had the thought of just reproducing the original, but not the knowledge or skill. Also interested in those aux boards when then come down the pike. Thanks!

    #19 4 months ago

    I also like how you socketed the relays. Every aux power board I have, had a blown a/c relay on it. I socketed all of mine for future problems that may arise.

    #20 4 months ago

    System 11 board looks amazing, would like to be added to the wait list as well. Keep up the good work.

    #21 4 months ago

    Nice, please add "board by DumbAss" somewhere on the silkscreen I think that would be hilarious.

    The first time I read a response to one of your tech messages and the response was "thanks, DumbAss" I was like - Whoa.... took me a little bit to see that was your handle

    The system 9 should work with the reformatting of the roms as detailed elsewhere if you've got all the signal paths and addressing correct.

    #22 4 months ago

    Great work! Still interested

    #23 4 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Nice, please add "board by DumbAss" somewhere on the silkscreen I think that would be hilarious.

    Yes - board makers should always put their 'signature' (whatever it is - from a symbol, to just the name, initials, or something) on the board somewhere.

    When I do mine, I put my little logo on it - both on silkscreen, and in a copper top or bottom layer. (Obviously, not the copper in an inner layer..)

    #24 4 months ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    dumbass System 9 MPU would make a good follow up to your System 11 MPU.

    Just to second this... I would be very interested in a system 9 board.

    #25 4 months ago

    Just so I am up to speed, since it seems like I missed the other thread; are the aux boards already done? Also have you worked up any type of cost associated with the bare aux boards? Sorry if this was covered ready or if they are not done yet. I am very interested in where this is going though.

    #26 4 months ago

    Wow, I've always wanted to do what you are DOING, bravo! I'm definitely interested in a system 11a, I do have a question, is it possible or is it your intention to make the system 11 board compatible example, 11,11a, b etc...?

    #27 4 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    ... are the aux boards already done?

    Yes. I started this thread due to a response in the other thread because what we're discussing in this thread is generic and not System 11 Auxiliary Power Board specific. These boards are done and I think I have a reasonable way of communicating the BOM. I wanted to get some more merchants but it's just taking more time than I'd like to fill in those fields. That's time not spent doing more on this stuff.

    Before making these available I'm going to have two local friends work through building the board so at least someone other than me has built a board. I do intend to provide support for building the board.

    Quoted from Tomass:

    Also have you worked up any type of cost associated with the bare aux boards?

    Not yet.

    Quoted from Tomass:

    I am very interested in where this is going though.

    Yes. Me too! My problem is that I have so many ideas for boards that I want to get done it's actually more interesting to work on the new thing than to try to make sure all the loose ends on the last item(s) are cleared so they are ready for distribution. I'm trying to temper that with a satisfactory level of completion before moving on to the next thing.

    #28 4 months ago

    What your doing is a huge asset to the community, looking forward to your progress, are the mpu boards going to be compatible universal to system 11? Maybe through dipswitches to combat the sound revisions etc...?

    #29 4 months ago
    Quoted from dc2010:

    Wow, I've always wanted to do what you are DOING, bravo!

    Thanks. I'm excited about doing new stuff and helping keep people's machines running!

    Quoted from dc2010:

    I do have a question, is it possible or is it your intention to make the system 11 board compatible example, 11,11a, b etc...?

    The pictures don't provide a lot of close detail. I apologize. I don't like super high resolution detail pictures as they kind of clog up the download of the thread.

    The System 11 board set consists of:

    - Main CPU board containing the generic base board for System 11C. No sound components are required. The sound section is silk-screened so it shows what components do not need to be populated.

    - DAC (digital analog conversion) daughter board. This board contains the circuitry required for the DA, CVSD and associated amplifiers.

    - Amplifier daughter board. This board contains the circuitry required for the final signal amplifier. There are two shown above but only one is necessary. The other is a test.

    - DDD (diagnostic digit display) daughter board. This board contains the original digit display for System 11.

    The daughter boards are connected to the main board with pin connectors. To match the original System 11 board revisions:

    System 11 needs all four boards (main+DAC+amplifier+DDD) - TESTED on my bench.
    System 11A needs three boards (main+DAC+amplifier) - although I don't have any actual experience with System 11A.
    System 11B needs two boards (main+DAC) - TESTED on my bench.
    System 11C needs one board (main) - TESTED on my bench.

    In the initial revision above the main (with a single minor correction), amplifier and DDD boards work but the DAC board has problems that require reasonable surgery that I don't expect people to perform so I need to revise them.

    Quoted from dc2010:

    What your doing is a huge asset to the community, looking forward to your progress, are the mpu boards going to be compatible universal to system 11? Maybe through dipswitches to combat the sound revisions etc...?

    You beat me to my post. I was typing it all up and you posted. Please see above.

    #30 4 months ago

    Thank you for your thoughtful explanation, that's brilliant, my Fire! Survived a literal fire, but no mpu , definitely want a set!

    #31 4 months ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Yes. I started this thread due to a response in the other thread because what we're discussing in this thread is generic and not System 11 Auxiliary Power Board specific. These boards are done and I think I have a reasonable way of communicating the BOM. I wanted to get some more merchants but it's just taking more time than I'd like to fill in those fields. That's time not spent doing more on this stuff.
    Before making these available I'm going to have two local friends work through building the board so at least someone other than me has built a board. I do intend to provide support for building the board.

    Not yet.

    Yes. Me too! My problem is that I have so many ideas for boards that I want to get done it's actually more interesting to work on the new thing than to try to make sure all the loose ends on the last item(s) are cleared so they are ready for distribution. I'm trying to temper that with a satisfactory level of completion before moving on to the next thing.

    If you need a tester or someone to help with loose ends, I am willing.

    #32 4 months ago
    Quoted from Tomass:

    If you need a tester or someone to help with loose ends, I am willing.

    I also have at least 1 of each system 11 game if I can assist in any way. I have no problem populating a board too.

    #33 4 months ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    I don't like super high resolution detail pictures as they kind of clog up the download of the thread.

    Don't worry about that. The thumbnails are compressed. You can post high-res images if you want.

    2 months later
    #34 52 days ago

    dumbass Any updates?

    #35 51 days ago

    Sorry. I went to visit family for 5 weeks and now they're paying it back by visiting me for 6 weeks.

    I've got the corrections to the DAC board applied but I re-adjusted some of the positions on the CPU board rendering the bad DAC boards incompatible (even after manual application of corrections). I had the original configuration manufactured with corrections and just received those boards so I haven't tested them. Those DAC boards should allow me to use the remaining 4 CPU boards for revisions of System 11 other than C.

    I've got other things in the pipe but with the family visiting I won't be able to make much if any progress on these until they're gone. I will not be able to populate and test but I will be able to lay out other new boards and put them in the manufacturing queue.

    Family comes first.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 221.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Tilted Pinball
    $ 199.99
    $ 26.95
    $ 27.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    £ 89.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinballToys
    From: $ 19.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    From: $ 34.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Medisinyl Mods
    $ 14.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 29.50
    Playfield - Plastics
    Pinball Haus
    From: $ 35.00
    Boards
    PCB Emporium
    $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 159.95
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Pinball Pro
    $ 1.95
    Various Novelties
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 6.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 109.99
    $ 24.75
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 259.99
    $ 45.00
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside