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(Topic ID: 242158)

DumbAss test and reproduction PCBs


By DumbAss

1 year ago



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    #151 44 days ago

    Thanks for the write-up Walamab.

    It's been 44 days since the last new board update. I have revised a couple of the boards but didn't think it was worth spending much time on documenting it. I got a batch of test / prototype boards in today and was hoping that I have finally nailed what I was working on - at least the primary focus. I built a board and went to test it and it (FINALLY) worked.

    The short of the story is that I made a few test boards trying to implement this feature but two revisions failed. I'm a DumbAss and couldn't figure it out so I had to go back to basics and created a set of boards to assist in the testing and developing of the features. I'm still a DumbAss as those basic boards had an error in them <sigh>. I overcame those and as I just mentioned it finally works.

    So what is it? It's an opto board design. Improved and re-designed. No more LM339s. Just super cheap ($0.02) 2N3904 transistors. As a bonus it includes diagnostic LEDs to show that the transmitter/receiver pair is working independently of the switch matrix circuitry. For the pièce de résistance (just kidding) it includes a cheap switching regulator to reduce the voltage from +12V to +5V to reduce the power consumption (and therefore heat generated) by the current limiting transmitter resistors. I have the +12V (basic) design working. I last tested the +5V design but want to double check it as the next step.

    As part of all this I also have a system of diagnostic boards for the 3-opto, 7-opto, 10-opto and 16-opto boards that allows the diagnostic aspect of the re-designed boards to be used with original Williams boards. This allows diagnosis of potential transmitter/receiver problems versus the LM339 circuitry on those boards. This system of boards is only partially implemented and built. The prototype board just passed today. I will post a follow up with the support boards when I get a picture of them. Expect that in the next few days.

    This is the set of boards that I had made to go back to the basics. You can see the patch I needed to test due to the incorrect basic design. Yes ... I am a DumbAss. These boards allowed me to get things working properly though.

    boards_043.jpg

    This is the latest (final) revision of the "integrated" test board (for +12V). It works in an actual machine - I tested it this afternoon. I need to move this electrical design adhering to the physical restrictions of the original Williams boards.

    boards_044.jpg

    This is an image of the working LED diagnostic board for use with original Williams boards. Lots of wires and connectors that will be somewhat simplified in the final system. The final system has "plug-in" boards that mount onto the original board and then use RJ-45 (Cat5) cables to transmit the power and signals to the actual diagnostic board. The reason for this is that the cables can be of any length and run out the coin door so that the optos can be tested when the playfield is in the normal position in the machine (not raised).

    boards_045.jpg

    I am also working on a single (not master/slave) System 11 alphanumeric display for all double alphanumeric panels. It should support all System 11B/C and Data East. Yes ... these already exist but as with most things I just want to make my own for the sake of making my own.

    #152 44 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Thanks for the write-up Walamab.
    It's been 44 days since the last new board update. I have revised a couple of the boards but didn't think it was worth spending much time on documenting it. I got a batch of test / prototype boards in today and was hoping that I have finally nailed what I was working on - at least the primary focus. I built a board and went to test it and it (FINALLY) worked.
    The short of the story is that I made a few test boards trying to implement this feature but two revisions failed. I'm a DumbAss and couldn't figure it out so I had to go back to basics and created a set of boards to assist in the testing and developing of the features. I'm still a DumbAss as those basic boards had an error in them <sigh>. I overcame those and as I just mentioned it finally works.
    So what is it? It's an opto board design. Improved and re-designed. No more LM339s. Just super cheap ($0.02) 2N3904 transistors. As a bonus it includes diagnostic LEDs to show that the transmitter/receiver pair is working independently of the switch matrix circuitry. For the pièce de résistance (just kidding) it includes a cheap switching regulator to reduce the voltage from +12V to +5V to reduce the power consumption (and therefore heat generated) by the current limiting transmitter resistors. I have the +12V (basic) design working. I last tested the +5V design but want to double check it as the next step.
    As part of all this I also have a system of diagnostic boards for the 3-opto, 7-opto, 10-opto and 16-opto boards that allows the diagnostic aspect of the re-designed boards to be used with original Williams boards. This allows diagnosis of potential transmitter/receiver problems versus the LM339 circuitry on those boards. This system of boards is only partially implemented and built. The prototype board just passed today. I will post a follow up with the support boards when I get a picture of them. Expect that in the next few days.
    This is the set of boards that I had made to go back to the basics. You can see the patch I needed to test due to the incorrect basic design. Yes ... I am a DumbAss. These boards allowed me to get things working properly though.
    [quoted image]
    This is the latest (final) revision of the "integrated" test board (for +12V). It works in an actual machine - I tested it this afternoon. I need to move this electrical design adhering to the physical restrictions of the original Williams boards.
    [quoted image]
    This is an image of the working LED diagnostic board for use with original Williams boards. Lots of wires and connectors that will be somewhat simplified in the final system. The final system has "plug-in" boards that mount onto the original board and then use RJ-45 (Cat5) cables to transmit the power and signals to the actual diagnostic board. The reason for this is that the cables can be of any length and run out the coin door so that the optos can be tested when the playfield is in the normal position in the machine (not raised).
    [quoted image]
    I am also working on a single (not master/slave) System 11 alphanumeric display for all double alphanumeric panels. It should support all System 11B/C and Data East. Yes ... these already exist but as with most things I just want to make my own for the sake of making my own.

    #153 43 days ago

    I completed assembly of the MPU board. dumbass boards make it virtually impossible to mess up. NVRAM module is in place but is waiting for delivery of the chip. On to testing... this weekend.

    79510E52-7433-47C7-B3FD-D0AA669A1BD4 (resized).jpeg
    #154 41 days ago

    This is the opto tester follow up. It is only partially implemented. The indicator board is in fabrication at the moment but the prototype for it works (as previously mentioned). These testers are specific to measurements of the Williams original boards. The new redesigned boards have this feature integrated onto them.

    Firstly though ... I helped someone with problems on his Indianapolis 500. Turns out there were two issues. They were a GI wiring issue and R260 on the power board. When those issues were solved I ask to borrow the Illuminated Target Board so I could reproduce it.

    boards_046.jpg

    These are the bare opto tester boards. The 3-opto board has an interference placement issue which is why it is missing.

    boards_047.jpg

    The 16-opto board.

    boards_048.jpg
    boards_049.jpg

    The 10-opto board.

    boards_050.jpg
    boards_051.jpg

    The 7-opto board.

    boards_052.jpg
    boards_053.jpg

    Indicator board to follow - when it arrives and I populate it and test it.

    #155 40 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Thanks for the write-up Walamab.
    It's been 44 days since the last new board update. I have revised a couple of the boards but didn't think it was worth spending much time on documenting it. I got a batch of test / prototype boards in today and was hoping that I have finally nailed what I was working on - at least the primary focus. I built a board and went to test it and it (FINALLY) worked.
    The short of the story is that I made a few test boards trying to implement this feature but two revisions failed. I'm a DumbAss and couldn't figure it out so I had to go back to basics and created a set of boards to assist in the testing and developing of the features. I'm still a DumbAss as those basic boards had an error in them <sigh>. I overcame those and as I just mentioned it finally works.
    So what is it? It's an opto board design. Improved and re-designed. No more LM339s. Just super cheap ($0.02) 2N3904 transistors. As a bonus it includes diagnostic LEDs to show that the transmitter/receiver pair is working independently of the switch matrix circuitry. For the pièce de résistance (just kidding) it includes a cheap switching regulator to reduce the voltage from +12V to +5V to reduce the power consumption (and therefore heat generated) by the current limiting transmitter resistors. I have the +12V (basic) design working. I last tested the +5V design but want to double check it as the next step.
    As part of all this I also have a system of diagnostic boards for the 3-opto, 7-opto, 10-opto and 16-opto boards that allows the diagnostic aspect of the re-designed boards to be used with original Williams boards. This allows diagnosis of potential transmitter/receiver problems versus the LM339 circuitry on those boards. This system of boards is only partially implemented and built. The prototype board just passed today. I will post a follow up with the support boards when I get a picture of them. Expect that in the next few days.
    This is the set of boards that I had made to go back to the basics. You can see the patch I needed to test due to the incorrect basic design. Yes ... I am a DumbAss. These boards allowed me to get things working properly though.
    [quoted image]
    This is the latest (final) revision of the "integrated" test board (for +12V). It works in an actual machine - I tested it this afternoon. I need to move this electrical design adhering to the physical restrictions of the original Williams boards.
    [quoted image]
    This is an image of the working LED diagnostic board for use with original Williams boards. Lots of wires and connectors that will be somewhat simplified in the final system. The final system has "plug-in" boards that mount onto the original board and then use RJ-45 (Cat5) cables to transmit the power and signals to the actual diagnostic board. The reason for this is that the cables can be of any length and run out the coin door so that the optos can be tested when the playfield is in the normal position in the machine (not raised).
    [quoted image]
    I am also working on a single (not master/slave) System 11 alphanumeric display for all double alphanumeric panels. It should support all System 11B/C and Data East. Yes ... these already exist but as with most things I just want to make my own for the sake of making my own.

    Very cool. I for one hope you can make the 10 opto board fit under the playfield in a TZ. Also, I do have one small request: Could you make a single opto/switch matrix interface board for those of us who are running the TZ prototype playfields? I am running an extra opto at switch 82 that corresponds to the extra magnet in the prototype playfields. Currently the emitter is wired in series with another opto, and my receiver is connected directly to the switch matrix. It works, but it is not a good long term solution.

    #156 40 days ago

    Do you have a breakdown of the cost of the BOM? I'm considering a remake as long term project and am curious of the price difference of old boards vs. new repros.

    #157 40 days ago

    This is really amazing... can you do this fantastic job for Heighway ALIEN IO-Boards, too?

    #158 40 days ago
    Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

    Very cool. I for one hope you can make the 10 opto board fit under the playfield in a TZ.

    The 10-opto board used in Twilight Zone is specific to Twilight Zone (not used in any other machine). The connectors to the optos are different. They are grouped 2x5 and 2.54mm (0.100") pins. I pulled this board from my Twilight Zone tote of parts (yes - I currently have a Twilight Zone in a tote) but seem to have misplaced it. A scatter brain to be sure. I will get to this board (eventually) and I will add an eleventh switch to it. The Twilight Zone in a tote is a 3rd magnet Twilight Zone in the making. I need help with the cabinet (no experience with wood work other than a single weekly class in secondary school MANY years ago) but my very good friend helping me has been busy and then the pandemic came along.

    Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

    Also, I do have one small request: Could you make a single opto/switch matrix interface board for those of us who are running the TZ prototype playfields? I am running an extra opto at switch 82 that corresponds to the extra magnet in the prototype playfields. Currently the emitter is wired in series with another opto, and my receiver is connected directly to the switch matrix. It works, but it is not a good long term solution.

    I think you want a board like this: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stuck-on-3rd-magnet-project#post-5765227

    #159 40 days ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    Do you have a breakdown of the cost of the BOM? I'm considering a remake as long term project and am curious of the price difference of old boards vs. new repros.

    I have documents with BOM information for the reproduction boards. The information is translated from a master spreadsheet. The spreadsheet does not contain any price information because pricing varies between merchants and quantity discounts from many merchants can affect the pricing significantly when the numbers of a component start to rise somewhat significantly.

    The other issue with BOM information is that BOMs vary tremendously between the boards as the boards use vastly different components depending on their purpose. In general when assessing potential BOM costs high capacitance capacitors, transistors, ICs, relays, heat sinks and high quality connectors are the more expensive components. In synergy with that is the count. The higher the count the more the BOM will add up REALLY quickly. Take the following examples:

    WPC-89 PWR board has:
    - 36x TIP102 transistors. They are $0.50 at GPE. That's $18 of BOM.
    - 8x TIP36C transistors. They are $1.75 at GPE. (or $2 at PBL). That's either $14 or $16 of BOM.
    - 5x 18k uF capacitors. They are $3 at PBL. That's $15 of BOM.
    - 5x 5298 heat sinks. They are $2 at GPE. That's $10 of BOM.

    I can try to help you offline (use PM) if you want more information. I don't want to post anything about cost publicly because of the large variance.

    #160 40 days ago
    Quoted from Averell:

    This is really amazing... can you do this fantastic job for Heighway ALIEN IO-Boards, too?

    Thank you for the kind words.

    Unfortunately I have no experience with Heighway pinball and don't know anybody who has any of their machines.

    #161 40 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    - 36x TIP102 transistors. They are $0.50 at GPE. That's $18 of BOM.
    - 8x TIP36C transistors. They are $1.75 at GPE. (or $2 at PBL). That's either $14 or $16 of BOM.
    - 5x 18k uF capacitors. They are $3 at PBL. That's $15 of BOM.
    - 5x 5298 heat sinks. They are $2 at GPE. That's $10 of BOM.

    Holy heck, if you're buying this much, go to Mouser or Digikey - NOT a pinball-specific distributor. Save on shipping, can get everything from ONE seller.

    #162 39 days ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Holy heck, if you're buying this much, go to Mouser or Digikey - NOT a pinball-specific distributor. Save on shipping, can get everything from ONE seller.

    Oh ... I understand completely.

    This is exactly my point on why I can't really provide an accurate price for the BOM. It depends on quantity and merchants. I also don't usually like to publicly favor any one merchant over another although I do like to promote the smaller pinball focused hobbyist or merchants rather than the bigger generic merchants because the pinball focused merchants help out the hobby and everyone that cares about pinball.

    Sometimes it is also not possible to buy everything from a single merchant.

    #163 39 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    The 10-opto board used in Twilight Zone is specific to Twilight Zone (not used in any other machine). The connectors to the optos are different. They are grouped 2x5 and 2.54mm (0.100") pins. I pulled this board from my Twilight Zone tote of parts (yes - I currently have a Twilight Zone in a tote) but seem to have misplaced it. A scatter brain to be sure. I will get to this board (eventually) and I will add an eleventh switch to it. The Twilight Zone in a tote is a 3rd magnet Twilight Zone in the making. I need help with the cabinet (no experience with wood work other than a single weekly class in secondary school MANY years ago) but my very good friend helping me has been busy and then the pandemic came along.

    I think you want a board like this: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stuck-on-3rd-magnet-project#post-5765227

    Hah, an answer to my question I asked before. I sometimes have a short memory. That would be simpler than doing a 5v board for a single opto.

    #164 39 days ago
    Quoted from dudah:

    Do you have a breakdown of the cost of the BOM? I'm considering a remake as long term project and am curious of the price difference of old boards vs. new repros.

    I can provide a single data point for the SND and MPU boards from mouser.com. The majority of the parts for my both boards came from mouser.com. The bill for materials was $86.58 + $7.99 shipping.

    There were a few things (older chips) that had to be purchased from other vendors. These totaled around $50 +/- including shipping.

    $55 for SND board + $94.57 mouser + $50 other = $199.57. If you can find one, a WPC89 sound board goes for ~$300 and Pinsound+ is $350-$370.

    I saved at least $100 by building my own. Plus...it was fun to do

    My MPU mouser bill was $38.35 + $7.99 shipping. The ASIC came from Marco for $60. Various other components totaled ~$50 (like the SND).

    Total: $55 for board + $46.34 mouser + $60 ASIC + $50 other = $156.34. MPUs with ASIC and game ROM are ~$250 so I saved $100 on this one building it myself.

    disclaimer: this is my own experience and prices fluctuate so this is just an example.

    #165 39 days ago
    Quoted from Walamab:

    I completed assembly of the MPU board. dumbass boards make it virtually impossible to mess up. NVRAM module is in place but is waiting for delivery of the chip. On to testing... this weekend.

    Testing of this board went well (eventually). With some troubleshooting help from dumbass, I found that I received a bad 68B09E microprocessor. I replaced it with a known good one (temporarily) and the board booted just fine!

    Now on to the power driver board (eventually).

    Thanks for the help dumbass!

    #166 39 days ago
    Quoted from Averell:

    This is really amazing... can you do this fantastic job for Heighway ALIEN IO-Boards, too?

    Those need re engineering - not reproduction

    #167 39 days ago

    Yes, that's right, but who can do this?

    #168 36 days ago

    I made a video of dumbass SND and MPU boards installed in my T2 running TAF ROMs these things work great!

    #169 36 days ago

    I posted in another thread "When boards arrive it's like Christmas!". Today some boards arrived. It's good timing too. I am excited to get these built and tested. If all works it should finish the opto board improvements. I usually don't post until I have some result having built and tested but given the previous number of attempts on the prototype boards for the optos I have high confidence that they will work.

    I spent the last three days building this board (destined to go into a High Speed) for a member. Last night it passed (including the sound test) on the bench. Unfortunately I'm not fast but I do like to think that I'm careful.

    boards_054.jpg

    These are the opto boards. The indicator board completes the testing component for original Williams board design. The other three boards are the +5V opto boards with built-in indicator support.

    boards_055.jpg

    These final two boards are System 11 boards. One is the integrated double alphanumeric display panel. It supports either Williams or Data East (normal or inverted segments) and for the Williams configuration either standard (full alphanumeric on bottom display) or jackpot (numeric on bottom display and numeric satellite "jackpot" displays). Switching configurations is done by a push button switch or a fixed configuration can be assigned by jumper resistors (wires). The other is my second attempt at a power supply board. The first one works with an audible hum depending on connection to the ground plane. I tried things I thought might be causing it but I needed to change the layout for this second attempt.

    boards_056.jpg

    I will post updates when available.

    #170 36 days ago

    I couldn't help myself and had to have an answer. I got it last night.

    To remind the reader ... the LED indicator operates independently of the switch circuitry. The LED will indicate function of the transmitter/receiver pair. If the LED changes state but the state change is not registered by the switch circuitry (in switch test) then the problem is in the switch circuitry (on the opto board or on the CPU board or in the harness wiring). If the LED does not change state then there is an initial problem in the transmitter/receiver pair and a possible subsequent problem in the switch circuitry that may be masked by the transmitter/receiver pair problem. It helps in differential diagnosis.

    Here's the redesigned (+5V) board with the built-in indicators working in the BSD. The LED state is matched to the switch test state. Switches 53, 54 and 57 are closed (inverted opto logic).

    boards_057.jpg
    boards_058.jpg

    Then I proceeded to test the indicator board for the original boards. This is the original board with the pass through connectors. The network patch cables carry the signal/power to the indicator board.

    boards_059.jpg

    This is the power on state. None of the optos are closed. The standard (not Twilight Zone) 10-opto board has 7 switches on one column and 3 switches on another column. For BSD it's 51-57 and 71-73. The indicator board is designed to work for a 16-opto board that has 8 switches on two columns. That's why on the indicator board there are 7 illuminated LEDs on one row of LEDs and 3 illuminated LEDs on the other.

    boards_060.jpg

    I then put some balls to close (interrupt) some optos. The switch test state is reflected in the indicator board because there's nothing wrong with the transmitter/receiver pairs and the switch circuitry. Open optos (LEDs on) are 51, 55, 56 and 73.

    boards_061.jpg

    I will try to work on some BOM / documentation for these opto boards by time slicing the building of the other remaining board. Unfortunately the power supply board shows no improvement so I have to go do some more reading and learning to figure out why. I may end up needing help as it is reaching the limit of my knowledge and experience.

    #171 30 days ago

    Been distracted with a few other things the last couple of days. Finally got things built but still need to bench test. I did the machine test on the 10-opto as seen in the previous post.

    This is the diagnostic indicator board. A very simple board (electrically) but can help differentiate potential causes for opto failure in a machine ... plus it's cool to watch the blinking lights. I have these available as bare or complete boards for 3-opto, 7-opto, 10-opto and 16-opto as well a complete set for all the boards combined. PM if interested until I get around to setting up some kind of biz here.

    boards_062.jpg

    All the following boards regulate the +12V input to +5V output using an efficient switching regulator and then powers the current limiting resistors with the +5V. This produces much less heat due to the lower voltage. This allows the use of 1/2W (0.5W) resistors instead of the 2W resistors on the original board. It also includes the aforementioned diagnostic LED indicators and a switch to enable/disable the LED indicators. The transmitter/receiver pair is isolated from the switch matrix wiring with a discrete transistor so damage to the electronics (such as accidentally shorting high voltage to the switch matrix) does not necessarily take out several columns or rows but may only take out a single discrete transistor. The discrete transistor is also much easier to replace that a 14-pin DIP IC.

    Here's the redesigned 7-opto board. Note that there are two versions of the original board although they are the same circuit design. The board was initially mounted vertically with mounting brackets. There are four additional mounting holes for the later revision to mount the board horizontally (Attack from Mars) with spacers. The reproduction board supports both mounting orientations in a single board. Compatible part numbers are A-14977, A-15576 and A-15595.

    boards_063.jpg

    Here's the redesigned 10-opto board. Same as the 7-opto board for the most part. The components are packed tight so there is no space for a switch. There are only selectable jumpers to enable/disable the LED indicators. There are two versions of this board. The initial (smaller) version is mounted horizontally with spacers and the later revision is larger with additional holes for vertical mounting with mounting brackets. Depending on the available space the larger board might fit in the horizontal mounting of the smaller board. This board is currently only available in the larger size. I am considering making the smaller size available if a machine has restricted space available for horizontal mounting. Compatible part numbers are A-15430 for the smaller board, A-18159 and A-20246 for the larger board.

    boards_064.jpg

    And this is the redesigned 16-opto board. Note that there are two versions of this board but both versions are electrically identical. The difference is the mounting orientation.

    The earlier revision (Star Trek TNG to Junk Yard) mounts with the switch matrix connector closer to the playfield. Compatible part numbers are A-16998 and A-17223 for this revision.

    The later revision (No Good Gofers and The Champion Pub) mounts with the switch matrix connector away from the playfield. This difference should be noted so any person needing a board is fully aware of the situation. The wiring harness can probably be manipulated to fit the earlier revision mounting orientation although "reach" might be a factor (the switch matrix connector would be further away from the wiring harness). Compatible part number is A-22019.

    This image only shows the early revision orientation. I would considering making the later orientation but I think there will be a greater demand for the earlier version as there are more machines that would require the early orientation. NGG and CP were made in much smaller numbers than all the other machines using this board.

    boards_065.jpg

    All these boards (7-opto, 10-opto and 16-opto) are available as bare or complete boards. Mounting brackets are NOT included. I need to bench test these boards and then put them into a real machine and try the boards there. Of course, working in a machine in diagnostics (no load) is not 100% the same as working in a machine while playing a game (under load). I have these priced out but due to the current lack of load testing I am offering a discount from the final pricing until I have the information about load testing. If you're adventurous (or perhaps like living on the edge) contact me if you're interested.

    I also have the 3-opto (opto ramp) board but that board uses +12V (too small for the +5V regulator circuitry) but includes the diagnostic indicators. There doesn't appear to be much demand for this board as it is used in a handful of machines.

    #172 30 days ago

    I think it would be great to have opto tester, solenoid and switch tester boards for WPC/System 11 games. I bring in games to repair for people, and it sure would be nice to have another arrow in the quiver.

    Currently working on WPC89 (Indiana Jones), Earthshaker (System 11c?), Bride of Pinbot (System 11c?), Big Guns (System 11c?)

    Are you working on something that will be for sale in the future? I don't mind bare boards and mounting components myself.

    #173 30 days ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    I think it would be great to have opto tester, solenoid and switch tester boards for WPC/System 11 games. I bring in games to repair for people, and it sure would be nice to have another arrow in the quiver.

    I have what I consider bench tester boards (see the very first post) that I haven't priced out completely but they are available. If you have some board experience they should be fairly easy to put together (nothing fancy as far as components go). There are three boards. One universal switch tester and one solenoid tester for System 11 or WPC (89 and 95). There is no wiring provided so wiring will need to be constructed. If the wiring is built long enough these bench testers could be used at a machine.

    Quoted from pb456:

    Are you working on something that will be for sale in the future? I don't mind bare boards and mounting components myself.

    I had the boards below made over a year ago and haven't been back to revisit them. I stored them in a bag and that bag had dust on it. I had used them to diagnose a problem in my Twilight Zone at the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show in 2019. That's right. Last year's show. This year was obviously canceled. To say I got distracted by other boards would be an understatement.

    boards_066.jpg

    I plan to revise them a little if needed. I have to re-assess. I checked the other day about making some straight plug-in boards for the solenoid connectors (1J11/1J12/1J18/1J19 for System 11 or J124/J125/J127/J130 for WPC-89) but there's not a lot of space available to have a board sit over the connectors. The boards are too close to the bottom of the cabinet head or the board below and too close to the TIP102s. It's likely going to be that a short wiring harness from the connector to the adapter will be required. Once on the adapter the Cat5 cable will carry the signal to the remote diagnostic indicator board using whatever length of Cat5 cable you desire.

    The 4 connector board is designed for use in WPC (J124/J125/J127/J130). The 2 connector board is designed for use in System 11 (1J11/1J12 and 1J18/1J19). The power tap board could probably be made to be a straight pass through board. I need to double check that. The indicator board is universal provided the wiring to the adapter board conforms to the standard. It has support for 32 solenoids (4x8) and the 6 special solenoid switches.

    Once I had completely tested out the opto boards and built/tested the unified System 11 / Data East alphanumeric panel that I just made I was going to turn my attention to these boards as I seem to have the "tester" bug at the moment. I know there are other boards that still have problems I need to return to.

    11
    #174 24 days ago

    Got the unified double alphanumeric display board tested on the bench the other day. Supports all double alphanumeric display configurations from Williams and Data East. Configuration can be selected dynamically by two latching switches or fixed by using jumpers on the board. Fixed configuration is cheaper as it reduces the required components by more than 50%. The LED indicates power and the current selected configuration. The LED can be disabled by a jumper. Configurations supported:

    Data East (e.g. The Simpsons)
    Williams Standard (e.g. Black Knight 2000 or Whirlwind)
    Williams Jackpot (e.g. Taxi and Police Force)

    boards_067.jpg

    With this board I have finally gotten around to pricing bare boards (includes the LED blocks) and complete boards. I have run out of white LED blocks so I will need to order some more of them from the manufacturer I used. I have orange, red and green LED blocks available.

    #175 24 days ago

    Nice to see ...great design!

    #176 24 days ago

    dumbass When u can, PM me what it would cost for the WPC/Sys 11 test boards and the display board in green for a system 11 (Grand Lizard).

    I'm ok with assembly/soldering if it helps.

    #177 23 days ago

    Can you do blue for a funhouse?

    #178 23 days ago

    Working in Police Force. Same display as above. White display.

    boards_068.jpg
    #179 23 days ago
    Quoted from sparkup:

    Can you do blue for a funhouse?

    It's possible but I don't have any blue blocks. I need to order some more white blocks so I will ask the manufacturer if they'll allow me to order a quantity of blue blocks that is less than their MOQ. Based on my last order this will likely work out positively.

    #180 18 days ago

    Do you have a list of available boards?

    #181 18 days ago
    Quoted from Pinphila:

    Do you have a list of available boards?

    A good reminder I need to set up a store. It's a lot of information to post and it can look overwhelming. I'll try to keep it brief and list what's available.

    Boards are available bare or complete. Bare boards are provided with a complete (digital) BOM and full support for acquiring parts if problems arise. Complete boards require assembly so please allow time for assembly.

    System 11 Boards.

    - System 11 CPU Board (from High Speed to Bugs Bunny).
    - System 11 Solenoid Fuse Board (fusing the special solenoids).
    - System 11 Auxiliary Power Board.
    - System 11 Interconnect Board (not Big Guns, Space Station or Banzai Run).
    - System 11 Relay Board.
    - System 11 Banzai Run Interconnect Board.

    Display Boards. All display boards are available in orange, red, green and white (white blocks to be re-ordered). They will also be available in blue if I can get some blue blocks.

    - System 11 Discrete Display (High Speed to Pinbot).
    - System 11 Quad Display (F-14 to Swords of Fury).
    - System 11 Double Display (Taxi to Bugs Bunny - NOT individual left/right displays).
    - Data East Quad Display.
    - Data East Double Display.
    - WPC Alphanumeric Display (Funhouse and The Machine).

    WPC-89 Boards.

    - WPC-89 Power Driver Board.
    - WPC-89 CPU Board.
    - WPC-89 CPU Security Board.
    - WPC-89 Sound Board (one reported issue I am working through).
    - WPC-89 Fliptronic Board.

    WPC Boards.

    - WPC 3-Opto (Ramp Opto) Board.
    - WPC 7-Opto Board.
    - WPC 10-Opto Board (larger board for vertical mounting bracket).
    - WPC 16-Opto Board (mounting holes for earlier revision J5 connector closer to playfield).
    - WPC Coin Door Interface (early WPC-89)
    - WPC Coin Door Interface (later WPC-89 and WPC-95)

    Some of the boards that are missing are boards that do not work properly so I cannot list them.

    I also have a bunch of bench test and diagnostic boards available but I won't list them here. They're a niche market but if interested please feel free to PM.

    #182 18 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    A good reminder I need to set up a store. It's a lot of information to post and it can look overwhelming. I'll try to keep it brief and list what's available.
    Boards are available bare or complete. Bare boards are provided with a complete (digital) BOM and full support for acquiring parts if problems arise. Complete boards require assembly so please allow time for assembly.
    System 11 Boards.
    - System 11 CPU Board (from High Speed to Bugs Bunny).
    - System 11 Solenoid Fuse Board (fusing the special solenoids).
    - System 11 Auxiliary Power Board.
    - System 11 Interconnect Board (not Big Guns, Space Station or Banzai Run).
    - System 11 Relay Board.
    - System 11 Banzai Run Interconnect Board.
    Display Boards. All display boards are available in orange, red, green and white (white blocks to be re-ordered). They will also be available in blue if I can get some blue blocks.
    - System 11 Discrete Display (High Speed to Pinbot).
    - System 11 Quad Display (F-14 to Swords of Fury).
    - System 11 Double Display (Taxi to Bugs Bunny - NOT individual left/right displays).
    - Data East Quad Display.
    - Data East Double Display.
    - WPC Alphanumeric Display (Funhouse and The Machine).
    WPC-89 Boards.
    - WPC-89 Power Driver Board.
    - WPC-89 CPU Board.
    - WPC-89 CPU Security Board.
    - WPC-89 Sound Board (one reported issue I am working through).
    - WPC-89 Fliptronic Board.
    WPC Boards.
    - WPC 3-Opto (Ramp Opto) Board.
    - WPC 7-Opto Board.
    - WPC 10-Opto Board (larger board for vertical mounting bracket).
    - WPC 16-Opto Board (mounting holes for earlier revision J5 connector closer to playfield).
    - WPC Coin Door Interface (early WPC-89)
    - WPC Coin Door Interface (later WPC-89 and WPC-95)
    Some of the boards that are missing are boards that do not work properly so I cannot list them.
    I also have a bunch of bench test and diagnostic boards available but I won't list them here. They're a niche market but if interested please feel free to PM.

    I would make this the first post and edit as things come available. Freeplay40 does that with his ramps. Prices would be good too. Thanks for the work! I’ll be ordering soon

    #183 18 days ago
    Quoted from Pinphila:

    I would make this the first post and edit as things come available. Freeplay40 does that with his ramps. Prices would be good too. Thanks for the work! I’ll be ordering soon

    I was thinking of creating an announcement thread and having that thread for announcements, pricing and availability of working boards. This thread would remain for the "journey", discussion and the trials and tribulations of board development.

    It's been over a year and I never thought I would get to where I am when I started this thread.

    10
    #184 13 days ago

    I spent some time (in between other things) working through the bench boards. It was a good excuse for me to work on my WPC-95 bench rig that has been sitting around for over a year. I'm not at the stage of working through any WPC-95 boards (although I have a complete layout of the WPC-95 AV board that has not yet been fabricated - been sitting on that for over a year as well). The bench rig still needs more wiring - there's actually no wiring other than what you see.

    I have a setup for at machine testing that I am also working through. Just sent the preliminary test boards off for fabrication. More on that later if successful (or perhaps more on it even if unsuccessful as the way to get better is to learn from mistakes - either yours or someone else's).

    boards_069.jpg
    #185 13 days ago

    Have you made the solenoid test board available? That looks like a nice test aid.

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

    #186 13 days ago

    I worked through pricing the other day.

    LMP-UNV (lamp tester). Bare = $5. Complete = $20.
    SOL-S11 (solenoid system 11 tester). Bare = $15. Complete = $50.
    SOL-WPC (solenoid WPC tester). Bare = $15. Complete = $50.
    SWT-UNV (switch tester). Bare = $15. Complete = $50.

    LMP-UNV + SOL-S11 + SWT-UNV (system 11 bundle). Bare = $30. Complete = $80.
    LMP-UNV + SOL-WPC + SWT-UNV (WPC bundle). Bare = $30. Complete = $80.
    LMP-UNV + SOL-S11 + SOL-WPC + SWT-UNV (all bundle). Bare = $40. Complete = $140.

    Other bundles can be made available if need be.

    Please note these boards require you to make your own connectors. They are designed for bench testing but can be used as portable testing. I am working on portable testing as mentioned above. The portable testing will likely be more unified but consequently more complicated.

    I will provide (online) documentation with information for BOM and connector wiring.

    Complete boards can have LED color customized if desired.

    I really need to make that announcement thread but I have so much going on ...

    #187 13 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    I really need to make that announcement thread but I have so much going on ...

    Make that announcement thread, then you'll *really* see how much you've got going on!

    Still amazed by your technical prowess and quality of work!!!

    #188 11 days ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    This is the opto tester follow up. It is only partially implemented. The indicator board is in fabrication at the moment but the prototype for it works (as previously mentioned). These testers are specific to measurements of the Williams original boards. The new redesigned boards have this feature integrated onto them.
    Firstly though ... I helped someone with problems on his Indianapolis 500. Turns out there were two issues. They were a GI wiring issue and R260 on the power board. When those issues were solved I ask to borrow the Illuminated Target Board so I could reproduce it.

    Have a look at this board that is NLA... any chance you could make a version with the wider opto to avoid breaking the tab on the targets?

    http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/i500itb.html

    #189 11 days ago
    Quoted from Schwaggs:

    Have a look at this board that is NLA... any chance you could make a version with the wider opto to avoid breaking the tab on the targets?
    http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/index.html?http://www.greatlakesmodular.com/products/pinball/i500itb.html

    I made a board (none populated and therefore none tested) in a post above. It's buried (like a lot of things) in this thread. There's no organization having grown organically. I know ... make the announcement thread. It's @ https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/4#post-5847997 if you want to see. It's a direct reproduction without modification.

    The problem for me is the mounting bracket. The opto component used has spacing that the mounting bracket in the machine uses. I can change the opto to a different (wider) one but that means the mounting bracket in the machine can no longer be used. A new mounting bracket is required. I know nothing about metal works so I can't meet that new requirement (new mounting bracket). If you look carefully at the GLM board it includes a completely different mounting bracket. If someone knows about metal works and makes a compatible bracket I could make a board that utilizes that new bracket (provided the bracket mounting holes can be worked into the board).

    #190 8 days ago

    Might be a job for someone with Fusion 360 experience and can print in Nylon ASA or ABS.

    #191 8 days ago

    Chiming in here with my experience. Ordered a set of WPC-89 boards from Victor compatible for WH20 on my scratch build. Really nice solid boards, easy to work with, take solder well, and the clear labeling on the silkscreen design is great (combined with the spreadsheet). That last part can't be understated; I'm incredibly new when it comes to PCB design, but through that information and PM's to Victor, I've learned a ton and feel really confident about getting these put together myself and up and running.

    I will say it takes a certain initiative/mind-set to take on the endeavor. I chose to challenge myself, and you'll have to want to do the same if you chose bare boards. Honestly, ordering and sourcing the components was a little tough on my end, but again, another opportunity to learn (even from reading the manufactures' part numbers/codes). I wouldn't necessarily expect these to be cheaper than buying pre-populated Rottendog boards (or whatever they merge into now after bowing out); they certainly can be, but you have your choice of where to upgrade components.

    Having a blast putting these together. Buy with confidence knowing you'll have support from Victor and the community on this thread.

    #192 8 days ago
    Quoted from RusticatedBelt:

    Chiming in here with my experience. Ordered a set of WPC-89 boards from Victor compatible for WH20 on my scratch build. Really nice solid boards, easy to work with, take solder well, and the clear labeling on the silkscreen design is great (combined with the spreadsheet). That last part can't be understated; I'm incredibly new when it comes to PCB design, but through that information and PM's to Victor, I've learned a ton and feel really confident about getting these put together myself and up and running.
    I will say it takes a certain initiative/mind-set to take on the endeavor. I chose to challenge myself, and you'll have to want to do the same if you chose bare boards. Honestly, ordering and sourcing the components was a little tough on my end, but again, another opportunity to learn (even from reading the manufactures' part numbers/codes). I wouldn't necessarily expect these to be cheaper than buying pre-populated Rottendog boards (or whatever they merge into now after bowing out); they certainly can be, but you have your choice of where to upgrade components.
    Having a blast putting these together. Buy with confidence knowing you'll have support from Victor and the community on this thread.

    This post has me interested. I'm interested in having a spare WPC MPU and I am thinking about doing this but the parts ordering seems like a bit of an annoying burden. Has anyone taken the time to put together a mouser or digikey list that orders 70-80% of the items to make it easier? [and forgive me if I missed a post here which explained this already...]

    Edit: I see above that the OP offers BOM privately in a spreadsheet and I also noticed a few people giving their BOM totals cost wise so that explains savings which is cool. This could be a fun project!

    #193 8 days ago

    More boards arrived the other day. I have some more stock of System 11 CPU boards, WPC-89 CPU boards and WPC-89 power boards. I do not intend to revise those boards unless necessary - i.e. no new features. The power boards have on-board support for LM2678 rather than LM2576. The LM2678 is a little more expensive but it runs cooler. For those who want the LM2576 support I have (at the time of writing this post) one remaining board with on-board support. After that support is achieved through the daughter board connection.

    I do have stock of other boards so please feel free to PM if you are interested. If I run low on something I usually add a re-supply of stock to my next order for board fabrication. And it seems there's always a next order for board fabrication. So many ideas. And here are a few of them.

    This board is for a friend who asked for a way to connect an external 12V power brick to power mods in a machine separate from the on-board +12VU power supply. Primarily supplies +12V from the power brick and +5V through the use a plug-in regulator (not supplied on the board). Boards shown here are ready for soldering.

    boards_070.jpg

    This is the Twilight Zone 3rd magnet "pass through" board to allow the use of standard (widely available) transmitter / receiver pairs (the green and blue opto boards). Currently untested. I have the wiring ready. I just need to connect it all on the bench and make sure it works.

    boards_071.jpg

    This is a pet project for me. I recently had to remove diodes from a flipper solenoid. I said diodes in that there were three diodes on the solenoid as well as left over lead wire from previous diodes that had been removed. It took me a while to clean all that off and then put it back together in a clean manner. It got me thinking ... there's a better way to do this - right? This board takes the arc capacitor for the end of stroke switch and solenoid diodes and puts them on the board. The board has 3.96mm (0.156") connectors for ease of disconnection to service the solenoid although that typically won't need to happen often. Always have to keep the creative juices flowing. I hope to have a follow up image when the flipper assembly is finally re-assembled and put back in the Police Force (where it came from).

    boards_072.jpg

    I have an emphasis on quality. I test my products on the bench before they leave. I like to reduce potential work in case of failure. I like to test components before I install them so I don't have to remove them in the case they failed the initial QC at their manufacturing. I had these testers made for the 16-segment alphanumeric LED block and for discrete LEDs. I like to test the blocks before I install them. I built one with a prototyping board that used SIP sockets but it was tough to insert and remove the blocks. This board uses a ZIF socket and can test two simultaneously. The discrete LED board can test 16 simultaneously.

    boards_073.jpg

    I had these lamp boards made a while ago. They are a proof of concept and more of an experiment. I built the board for the Addams Family and tested it in a friend's machine. Works fine.

    boards_074.jpg
    boards_075.jpg

    And finally this is the latest crazy thing in development. These boards are for "at machine" testing. The bench diagnostic boards are great for the bench but they're inconvenient when at a machine. The key pin is different between connectors (with VERY good reason) and that increases combinations of connectors. I also hate crimping when there are a LOT of pins and connectors that need crimping. So these boards are designed to simply plug straight into the header pin (after selecting the appropriately keyed connector) and provide a connector for the ethernet (RJ45) patch cable that carries the signal to the diagnostic board. I will provide an image of how this works at an actual machine to show the full concept but for the moment I hope this provides an idea of the concept. The modular connectors are horizontal (pointed "up") so that the cable will run up over the display board.

    boards_077.jpg

    #194 8 days ago
    Quoted from brainmegaphone:

    Edit: I see above that the OP offers BOM privately in a spreadsheet and I also noticed a few people giving their BOM totals cost wise so that explains savings which is cool. This could be a fun project!

    The BOM for a board is provided as a table in a document. The table is generated from a master spreadsheet that contains all the BOMs for all the boards. The master spreadsheet tracks everything but it's a spreadsheet and can be overwhelming for people who aren't used to reading information presented in that form. That's why I provide the information as a table in a document instead.

    #195 8 days ago

    I love the idea of RJ45 adapters.
    Have you made another version of the diagnostic board that has RJ45 connectors or did you make these to fit .100 headers too?

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

    #196 8 days ago

    I'm liking this new diagnostic stuff....do you think you will be doing this for other williams, bally systems?

    #197 8 days ago

    If any of y'all have any doubts about the quality of the boards and the support Victor offers, I can unequivocally say that the construction quality of the boards is fantastic and his support is even better. I needed a replacement WPC-S MPU board, and Victor put one together for me. The install didn't happen until a few weeks later, and when I ran into a self-induced snag where the pin didn't boot correctly (connected the ribbon cable off by one row on the DMD board....doink) he answered and replied quickly, helping me diagnose even in the evening!

    Buy with confidence from DumbAss!!

    #198 7 days ago

    Combined responses into a single post.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    I love the idea of RJ45 adapters.
    Have you made another version of the diagnostic board that has RJ45 connectors or did you make these to fit .100 headers too?

    Thanks. I wasn't sure how it would work out - the idea and the plausibility of it with a physical board. The issue is making the adapters "gain height". The TIP36C sits high off the board and there's limited space in a machine so this was a small challenge for creativity. A good exercise for those who are geometrically challenged.

    I so dislike crimping large numbers of pins that using a patch cable serves several purposes:

    - gets rid of the crimping need
    - allows reasonably long lengths of cabling
    - all the individual signals are held together without a bunch of zip ties

    The diagnostic board on the other end is something that I'm working on - still in design and layout but almost complete (sneak peek below). I have a current board that uses the modular 8P8C connector (shown in post #173). My plan is to prove the viability of a small number of the modular adapters at the machine using WPC-89 as a test bed. If all passes the proof of concept stage then I will expand to build modular adapters for the other parts of the system (System 11 solenoids, WPC and System 11 switch and lamp matrix, WPC and System 11 direct switches) that are used for diagnostics as well as building a modular 8P8C diagnostic readout "panel".

    Quoted from Stretch7:

    I'm liking this new diagnostic stuff....do you think you will be doing this for other williams, bally systems?

    I only have direct experience with Williams System 11, Data East and WPC-89/WPC-95. My intention is to initially support only those systems because I can't do any quality assurance for any other systems. Other systems can be supported but I would need to research them to get a better understanding. If there's reasonable demand I would need to see physical layouts of the boards and determine if there are any patterns that can be discerned.

    <tl;dr>

    More details ...

    The modular adapter is a two board system. One board is specific and has a specific connector with specific wiring to a common 8 connector pin socket. The other board is generic and takes the common 8 connector pin header (mates with the pin socket) and connects the signals to the modular 8P8C connector. This is how the "height" is generated. The generic board has different orientations to avoid physical hazards (such as 5298 heat sinks) on the board. If you look closer at the picture above you can see the two boards that "cross" each other and are connected to each other with the 8 and 4 pins. The 8 pins carry the signal. The 4 pins are purely used for support and balance - they do not carry any signal and are electrically isolated.

    </tl;dr>

    sneak_peek.jpg
    #199 7 days ago

    I like this!!!...Can this be purchased? Diagnostic tools is money well spent.

    Quoted from DumbAss:

    More details ...

    The modular adapter is a two board system.

    #200 7 days ago

    I don't normally update so quickly as progress is often slow on my part but here's another update.

    Here's the "at machine" (henceforth known as portable - versus bench) diagnostics. The patch cables could be unwound to bring the solenoid diagnostic board closer to the coin door. It all works as expected so I am going to proceed further with more adapter boards for specific board connector configurations.

    boards_077.jpg
    boards_078.jpg

    I've also been working on a System 11 Power Supply board. With two "failures" (excessively loud hum) I needed to revert to basics. So I had this small board fabricated and got it built the other day. Screwed it in the backbox. Connected the transformer secondary. Turned on the power. Checked voltage output. Turned off the power. Connected the playfield and display power. Turned on the power. No hum! Played several games with several multiballs. All works fine. Still no hum. So now back to the big board layout to figure out why.

    boards_079.jpg
    boards_080.jpg

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