So you go to a show to play your friends games.

But they cant go to a show to play yours.

Got it.

I'm not quite sure how or why you think that I twisted your statement. I quoted the entire thing, and you said it all. From what I have read of you, this is how I interpret it:

- I hate going to pinball shows, because there are people I might not like there.
- I hate playing pinball machines that aren't mine, because if I break them I would feel bad.
- I wouldn't go to other shows, because there are people I might not like there.
- I hate going to movies, because there may be rude or disruptive people there.

I also find your comments about part theft being contagious and stuff like that just flat out strange. I don't understand how this part theft can just happen first, and secondly it's again something that I just don't understand being scared of.

I live my life with the thought that generally people are awesome and things that I like to do are better when experienced in groups. I acknowledge that some people don't feel this way. But I also feel like it just wouldn't be a very fun way to live life. Maybe it is - I can't imagine my demeanor changing, so in that case I apologize and encourage you to continue living however you live to avoid all those types of situations if it makes you happy.

Wrong again...
Friends where I live...
And they are collectors, thus I play pins owned by collectors.
Not at a show unless the pins are brought by dealers.
I don't know the pin collectors at the show.
My friends wouldn't bring their pins for strangers to play at the show as well.

So...

You go to a show and do not play 90% of the machines.

Your friends are weird like you are. Probably why you became friends with them.

Your games are precious relics of incalculable delicate beauty meant to be hoareded up and hidden inside your home for your own personal use and the occasional use of a small group of people you know and trust.

Do you eat food prepared by strangers?

When you say you are a part of the "pinball community do you mean "the community of people you actually know and not these other people who I do not know"?

How on earth do you make new friends? You have never played a strangers game at a show, by your own admission.

I never said I hate people at pin shows.
I don't want to bring my pins because I eat all of the liability.
If someone disagrees with bringing pins to a show, a group on here goes into meltdown mode.
The thread is supposed to talk about both sides of the coin.
No one is going to stop anyone from bringing a pin.
I don't hate going to the movies, and see a lot of movies.
But...
You are naive about the general public.
General public is a mixed bag.
There are people that don't respect the property of others.
Read the comments above from others talking about part theft/swapping.
Trust is something earned from people.

If someone disagrees with bringing pins to a show, a group on here goes into meltdown mode.
You are narrow minded as well because you don't respect other opinions.
Both sides of the coin need to be discussed.
I don't want strangers playing my pins.
Get over it.

I never said you did. Reread my comments.

By your own admission, there is a lot of rude people that go to movies though, why in the world would you bother?

I don't have a clenched fist about the general public.

Correct. Yet, I don't spend my life worried about them. And that doesn't make me a clenched fist, or naïve. You could call it optimism, I suppose.

Yes, one comment from one person who has managed to have everything horrible under the sun happen to his machines at shows. You made the claim that this part theft was contagious. I'd like to know when this is all going on.

Hell, if we're circling back around to this, I'd like to know how in the hell this actually happens at a show - when are these halls so empty and unguarded that you can just show up, drill out a lock or two, and start pulling parts without anyone noticing?

I start by trusting people, and allow people to lose it with me. I find it works way better for meeting new people and enjoying my time with them. Again, I am glad for you that you are happy with your life the way that it is, but it just isn't the way that I choose to lead my life. I'm passing no judgment.

I go to shows to buy parts, visit vendors, attend lectures, and look at pins for sale.
It is my right not to play pins owned by other collectors.
I look at the pins, and talk to the collectors.
I probably have more friends than you.
You were hoping I played the machines because you could claim that I am selfish like the other people that don't bring pins.
It is a double edged sword with you.

I respect others opinions. I just have a hard time respecting dumb opinions, lol.

You don't want strangers playing your pins, but you attend shows that would not exist unless strangers played pins. lol. Your leisure is built on the back of people who get it... and you don't. You dont get it.

On Halloween I opened up my house to the neighborhood. 240+ "strangers", mostly kids and their parents, came into my home and played pinball machines, many for the firs time. Met a lot of cool people that night, shook at lot of hands. Got a lead on a few machines in storage.

Pinball machines ARE DESIGNED for strangers to play them. This is why they accept coins, lol.

Pinball is meant to be shared.

Quit hogging the goods, man.

LOL!!!! "Neener Neener... I am more popular!"

Are you a grown man? You have to be kidding me.

The movie comment was an example.
vid said good people are at the show because they pay money to be there.
Ignorant people are everywhere, and pay money to attend events.
Paying for an event doesn't mean you are a class act.
I don't spend my life clenched fist hating people.
I don't want to bring my pins PERIOD because I eat all of the liability.
I have been around large crowds, and people can be a$$e$.
We live in an entitlement society.
People think they are entitled to do whatever they want in public.
I didn't say everyone, but there is a faction of people that think that way.
I see the behavior at Disney World all the time.
People talking nasty to Cast Members because their a$$ isn't being kissed.
People throwing large amounts of garbage on the ground at the parks because someone will clean it up for them.
There are a lot of a$$holes in the general public.
I am not upset or worried constantly about this behavior.
But...
These same people will be playing your games.
I don't bring my games PERIOD
It is my opinion, but others can bring pins.
I have a lot of friends, but I choose them wisely.

Wow these last few posts.....just WOW.............Joey

I will ask the Pope to consider you for sainthood.
You made the comment about me having a hard time making friends.
I am just being a smart a$$ back.
Neener Neener

You should be thankful you didn't bet me. lol. A smart move on your part.

The people I know who leave their pins at home only do so because "its a pain in the ass" but I have never heard someone say "I dont want strangers to play my machines". Thats... against the pinball way of life... man.

If your games are in a basement... I get it. If they are hard to move... sure. If they are super rare even... meh... but alright.

But when your games are just fine... and you are just stingy. Nahhhh thats lame.

Totally lame.

Not "its my choice!".

Its your choice to choose you are being lame. lol.

Its true.

This is a pros AND cons thread.
I'm not sure why a few people aren't allowing this fellow to have his opinions.
Did I miss a post where he's telling other people how to live their lives? I'm not seeing it...
-mof

Play 'em hard like they were made to be played. It won't hurt them a bit.

I'll show you some great bang backs (on my own machines, of course).

Your entitlement society comments explain what I sort of suspected all along. I'll say this - when Walt created his first park, it was he who saw the issues with the cleanliness levels at other parks and assigned people to be constantly cleaning to ensure that things were in tip top condition at all times. The cleaners are in no way a new creation.

Having said that, in all of my time in theme parks I have never seen a person "throwing large amounts of garbage on the ground at the parks because someone will clean it up for them." The majority of theme park garbage lands there because the park has some sort of failing.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but when you actually dig down into the statistics, humans are getting less violent, nicer, and cleaner with every passing year. There is a lot out there in the media or whatever that makes us want to not believe this because normal, boring news doesn't sell, but it's true.

I'll continue to be an optimist, and I'll continue to associate with those who are.

This isn't a communist country.
The people don't own my machines.
I paid good money for them, and don't want strangers abusing my games.
Ignorant people are present in all crowds.
I allow a lot of people to play my games.
Friends and family...
If you want the entire world to play your games, that is your choice.
We can put your games in a public bathroom at Barnes and Noble.
You can take your elitist attitude, and shove it up your a$$.
image.jpg
Your pins can be the people's pins.
Marxism at it's best.

You're the elitist! You think that the "general public" is not good enough to touch your commercial grade toys that were designed to be played by thousands of people in a public setting, lol.

The way a few people are talking on here...
People are entitled to play my games.
Redistribution of pin wealth.
LOL

Since this is pretty clearly directed at Jared and me, I don't think that either of us are "not allowing him to have his opinions", we're just both minimally a little baffled by what an extreme it seems to be.

If he had just said that he didn't want to bring his machines because all of the liability is then on you to fix it, and none on the show - great! He's more or less right. But that isn't what he said.

His first post was about how you can't trust "Joe Public", how he is lurking behind the corner, just waiting to break your pinball machine and then quietly blend into the crowd. He then talked about how this "Joe Public" person does things in a restroom they would never do at home, making it sound like we all go into the potty and chimp flip our poo, and then that pinball shows should have it so that no one plays the machines.

It's simply hard to view life through such a dark lens for some of us. I could care less if he brought his machines or not to a show, but he doesn't need to put down the entire human population constantly. We're really not that bad. I mean, other than global warming.

Although, I did see a senator with a snowball, so that might not be real.

Okay, you're off the deep end. I never said that. I talked about theme parks, which I'm pretty darn certain that I know enough about how they work to have an opinion on. I then mentioned stats that show that humans aren't all bad.

I have no interest in playing your games. I could care less.

Enjoy the hat.

Oh, yeah? Well, you're not invited to my birthday party!

I was invited to Jared's party!

Your comment about suspecting who I am.
I fired it back at you.
I never said the world is horrible.
There is a faction of people who are unsavory and ignorant.
Global warming comment reveals you as well.

I am really upset.
LOL

Of course they do! At home, I can cut my lines right on the game I'm playing

Then don't eat them.

I won't...
You would give them my pin, thus make them more whole in the pin community.

One day... a long time ago... a stranger who you didn't know and may have never known: let you play his pinball machine. Based on this magical day, you developed a love and fascination with pinball machines... until one day... by the grace of God and a lot of hard work... you earned enough money to own pinball machines of your very own!

Will you pay it forward?

Will some child have their "moment" while playing YOUR machine? Like YOU did all those decades ago?

Maybe.

But not if they are a child you have never met before.

What a shame.

Strangers sharing their games is why we all learned to love pinball in the first place. Most of us pass that on... and pinball lives on through us.

But you... well, lol.

Did you know that Disneyland was started in large part because Walt wanted to share his love of trains with complete strangers? It doesn't just happen in this hobby!

This may be off topic now (looking at the last few pages :-}) but I bring Games to Shows because MOST of the people I bring them for are unbelievably gracious, well mannered & enjoy the hell out them.
I had one young boy playing our HSII with Steve Ritchie last year @ TPF & Steve was giving him tips on what to shoot for - the kid was having a killer Game & a GREAT time + he thanked my for bringing our Games to the show.

You can't BUY that kind of sincerity, honesty & graciousness.

Sometimes $hit happens to a Game at a show but that is NOT the norm - if it breaks it was going to do it anyway

Most folks at the Shows (even non-Pinheads) will tell the Jack A$$'s that are mishandling ANY Game to cool their jets & simmer-down-now.

All the Pin owners tend to watch out for each others Games (I know I do).

I've brought 2-3 Games to the Texas Pinball Festival & the Houston HAAG show almost every year since 2004 & don't regret it one bit.

They are meant to be played & enjoyed by the masses - Shows are a GREAT way to do that.

All the above IMHO

Kim

www.KimballsPinballs.com

Hope to see you at TPF 2015 - March 27-29 !!

I learned about pinball at arcades.
A stranger didn't show me his pin.
I live by a store that sells boat loads of pins.
I went to the store, and bought a few pins.
Most kids aren't interested in pinball.
Video games and iDevices...
Adults play pinball.
There are some kids, don't want comment twisted by you.
Your pins are public domain, that is your choice.
I dare you to lend your car to the crowd at the show.
You have no right to thumb your nose at people that don't want to bring their pins.
It is our choice, but you have a choice to bring your pins.
The thread is about pros and cons.
I don't want strangers playing my games.
There are people who don't respect property.
I didn't say everyone or the world population like goatdan insinuated.
If someone damages your game, you are stuck with the bill.
Not the show.
I think you should pay for all broken parts/damage that occurs at the show.
Everyone needs to pass the bill to you.
Whether it is a broken band, plastic, or other damage.
Everyone reading this thread needs to send all bills to you.

Disneyland isn't free unless California is giving residents free vacations now.
He shares his passion for a couple thousand dollars.
His Carolwood train was shared with animators and Hollywood friends including the Bergens.
Walt was a great capitalist.
He didn't give people free stuff.
I love the man.

You ain't never lied!

That's true.

But the good part is there are usually a dozen really great techs who will fix it for you - the right way.

The games were designed to be repaired on site, so when a good tech waves his magic soldering iron and has the game back up in 10 minutes - it's a great sight to see.

...and did I mention, you get your game fixed for free, sometimes by me?

So if you normally call a tech to service your games (and I charge $90/hr + travel time), you are saving big money having your game break at the show.

It was going to break anyway, blow that mo fo up at the show.

Out of 30 years of pinball shows, when has anyone damaged your game?

I bring my very best and rarest games. Nobody damages them, ever.

-

People bring BBBs that are worth $20,000. Nobody damages them. Why would they?

Anyone who spends $25 to enter a show has a great love and respect for pinball.

You and others have an opinion, and I have my opinion.
Thread is a discussion...
$25 isn't a lot of money to attend a show.
Tickets aren't $100.
People will want to bring pins, fine
Others don't want to bring pins, fine
I have my reasons, and you aren't going to change my mind.

I.
Never.
Said.
You.
Did.

I said as an entire population, the world is actually getting better at being nicer and stuff like that. And it is.

I actually was completely respectful of you and your opinion until you just randomly decided to post a response to me about how I was making some sort of Marxist suggestion that you must redistribute your wealth. At that point, I said that you had gone off the deep end.

To make my position as clear as possible, in case you missed it:

- I don't care if you want people to play your pinball machines or not. It's your right.
- Your other comments about how horrible "Joe Public" is do not jive with my world view nor the experiences that I have had in 30 some odd years of life.
- I don't care if you think that about "Joe Public", it's your right.
- Your comments make you appear terrified of leaving the house. That might not be how you feel, but that is how your comments read to me and others.
- I am glad that I don't feel scared about the world personally.
- You have made accusations about things like people stealing parts being "contagious" with nothing to back it up, nor do you address them when they are brought up to you.
- I am baffled by your bringing theme parks into the argument, and I'm just simply not the guy to argue theme parks with.
- I generally trust people who I meet. You said you don't. That's fine. Different worldviews. As everything else here has shown.

I'm going to be out sharing my worldview with a whole bunch of other like-minded individuals in a month. I'm sorry that you aren't interested in being there, but it also won't affect me or the fun that I will have at all And, your not being there won't affect your fun either, so can't we all just get along?

The owner of the arcade was a stranger. He let you play his game. Lucky you.

My car is a personal item designed for it's owner. A pinball machine has a coin-door and is designed to collect money from as many people as possible and be played as much as possible. A pinball machine is a commercial device. Sure, people privately own them, but it's nice to let them our of their holes for a few days each year and operate as intended.

Yeah. Pro = Pinball Machines at Shows. Con = Your attitude. lol

Everyone is a stranger until you meet them. You afraid of something?

And there are people who do. The vast majority. A pinball show is not a insane clown posse concert.

You don't have to have a bill if you fix it yourself. Not everyone uses a technician. lol

You act like a pinball machine cant handle 2-3 days of heavy gameplay. They are not delicate toys meant to be looked at in a glass box. They can handle tens of thousands of plays. Anything that breaks at a pinball show: was going to break soon anyways.

My comments are mostly directed at Jared.
He is being an elitist a$$.
I quote you to make a point.
I am not attacking you.
Marxism and redistribution of pin wealth are directed at him.

Not that it matters, but who drew first blood here?
-mof

first-blood.jpg

Says the guy who won't share and believes everything must be compensated with money

I'm not going to go far down this rabbit hole, but...

Pinball shows aren't free. No pinball show that I know of, at least not anymore, expects that you get nothing for bringing a machine. Even if you get a free show admission, you're getting something tangible in return, like those couple thousand dollars that Walt was after that you mention above.

The Carolwood Pacific was shared beyond a few people - in fact, neighborhood children were said to come over to ride it and Walt would make them ice cream sundaes... free! He gave people free stuff!

When he took it out into the world, he started a business around his passion. He looked to build a bigger train and have more people enjoy it. But, he ran the risk that at any time, he could have a part of that train break that was a much higher cost than what a guest who was paying to ride the train paid.

It was risk and reward. Just like you take on a risk by bringing a machine to a show, you get a reward by getting into that show. It's actually a complete parallel, on just a much smaller basis.

Using just the MGC as an example, if you bring a machine, you get a two day show ticket valued at $40 (and, although a lot of people would argue it's even more important, I'm not going to place a value on the after party at all). The average wear and tear would be much less than $40.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

"Elitism also refers to situations in which an individual assumes special privileges and responsibilities in the hope that this arrangement will benefit humanity or themselves. "

You want to keep your pins for yourself and NEVER share them with strangers, because you fear they are "unsavory" and may "break them". You "only play your friends pins".

Sounds like a special arrangement you came up with to benefit yourself.

Sorry champ, but in this instance the term "elitist" belongs to the dude who thinks his pinball machines are too good for a pinball show.

An arcade is a business.
I paid money to be there, and they were happy to take my money.
It wasn't free.
I am not afraid of strangers.
I meet new people all the time.
I don't lend stuff to people I don't know.
That is my choice.
I am not going to trust a complete stranger with a $10,000 game.
We aren't talking $100.
Why do I want complete strangers putting wear and tear on a $10,000 game...
You might get excited about a wink and a smile, but I don't.
You think people are required to bring games.
It is an entitlement.
Dude, my games aren't public property.
I bought them for my family and friends to enjoy.
I guarantee most people who buy pins don't want strangers screwing around with them.
You bought your games for the world to enjoy, good for you skippy.
I am going to ask the Pope to consider you for sainthood.
You are such a great person.
Not...
Take your Marxist/Entitlement views, and shove them up your a$$.

Just so you know, you quoted my post and then said all that stuff, not his.

Is that a fact? Tell that to the thousands of people who bring machines to the multitude of pinball shows around the nation.

Why does it have to be "screwing around with them".

How about... I dunno... PLAYING THEM.

Whats so bad about someone playing them?

How much damage can a few hundred plays really cause?

Capitalism keeps the world going around.

Actually, that's physics