I would charge people for the playfield when the run is actively ready to ramp up. From that point there should be only a 3-4 month wait to finished playfields, and people have paid for it. You could easily get around Paypal's requirements by shipping a "collectible" CPR key fob for the price of the playfield that comes with a playfield later. That way you turn the 1-2 year wishlist into the actual people that are still in the hunt and know EXACTLY what your paid demand is.

So what I'm reading is Stern has cost reduced out that $12 on an almost $9000 retail LE and $8000 Premium machine to sacrifice consistently harder playfields for 12 bucks in their bottom line. Great.

At least we know vid's full of crap saying Stern's playfields are not worse because they're cheaping out on the wood. From that clear, concise, insider account, they are cheaping out on the playfield wood to save $12 per $8000 machine.

Dunno. The green on Munsters in Herman mode works, and the Metallica GI change is nice, too. So colored GI isn't ALWAYS bad, just when it's done in an amateurish way (usually the homebrew carnival puke examples).

Both layers are 64% thicker. That's not a twist. Top and bottom, yes, but 64% thicker top layer than Stern isn't for no improvement.

.048 Stern face veneer wood thickness
.075 CPR face veneer wood thickness

It's not a small difference, and likely accounts for the lion's share of the heavy dimpling Sterns see now compared to pretty much every other contemporary and historical playfield norms.

The thickness bump is a compensation for the wood dryness/density which changed in 2008 when the legacy mill was closed and everyone scrambled to find new wood according to the post.

They weren't going "over the top" they were trying to re-attain the status quo of the wood the mill that closed was delivering using currently available wood. That's not "over the top."

Well, you'd be wrong. I've been doing manufacture here and overseas for a LONG TIME. Had $20 million years and $200,000 years, but I know the process.

Look, you can take it sentence by sentence and twist to your liking, but it's clear from that lengthy paragraph in micro and macro that he's saying the reason CPR playfields don't crater is they spend extra on the face veneer thickness and Stern doesn't. His wrapup paragraph doesn't call Stern by name, but definitely refers to them with "like some others do" and "some other playfield manufacturers" etc:

"You get a much nicer product and a much denser and tougher PF. This wood is 25% heavier for the same size panel as our old wood and nearly a third heavier as Baltic Birch which some other playfield manufacturers use. I would love to use cheaper wood like some others do, after all why would I pay $12.50/sqft landed when I can get birch at less than $2.00sqft? We use the best densest hardest custom wood we can get because we think its worth it and we always try to make the very best product we can. "

And it makes sense. Even if they only paid $6 more (half the two sided $12) to use a harder face veneer on the front only to get CPR-level legacy hardness PF results from the SAME MILL Stern uses, why wouldn't Stern pay that? Cost reduction. It's a DECISION by Stern.

He's not calling Stern out by name, but he uses "like some others do" and "other playfield manufacturers" so it's pretty clear who is making the cheap playfield choices to the detriment of final results.

Look, you're doing the same thing trying to minimize what he said. The $12 PER PANEL (not per sq ft) is for thicker veneer on BOTH SIDES. Here's the quote:

"...3 layers of white ash cores then we use 4 layers of maritime hard maple BUT we increased the thickness of the two face veneers by 64% to get a nominal face thickness of 0.075". These huge and thick ONE piece veneers are crazy expensive and we always get this top grade veneer on BOTH sides of your PF. This alone added $12 to the cost of each panel vs just using a second grade veneer on the bottom like Stern does."

So he says "we increased the thickness of the two face veneers by 64%" - that means thicker than Stern on the bottom AND TOP.

He says "These huge and thick ONE piece veneers are crazy expensive and we always get this top grade veneer on BOTH sides of your PF. This alone added $12 to the cost of each panel vs just using a second grade veneer on the bottom like Stern does."

This CLEARLY states that they have a thicker veneer on the TOP and the Bottom and Stern has their standard thinner veneer and a second grade veneer on the bottom.

CPR playfields don't crater. Sterns do now (usually, with a few specific run exceptions). Splitting that $12 cost to the top side only (and note that he says the cost is PER PANEL not PER SQ FOOT) that's a $6 difference for Stern to make playfield surfaces that are as hard as CPR, which is essentially legacy PF hardness.

That still doesn't explain their professional, experienced comment IN THE PLAYFIELD MANUFACTURE BUSINESS that they seek and get the "densest, hardest" playfields, and their face veneer is thicker than Sterns to achieve that, "Marvin".

Couldn't care less about the underside of the playfield. Make it as ugly as you want. Make it SMOOTH, but ugly is okay. I just want to be able to clean it and not get slivers if I change something out. AFAIC, it's irrelevant to the detailed playfield hardness revelations by CPR.

That's because vireland is sick of repeating the same truth, having already made the salient points with backup from CPR's additional information. Stern is cranking out crappier playfields that crater as a result of their drive for fatter profits at all costs, and an EXPERT who makes these PFs all the time has explained the reasons why that is in great detail by comparing it indirectly to the CPR superior wood choices (thanks, CPR!).

Stern has chosen fatter profits over making comparable product to what was available pre-2008 mill closure, which is why their playfield output is very uneven and in general craters more than dimples now. It's not that hard a concept to understand, and yet you persist.

Let's not promote the path of a Stern apologist with this kind of "out."

When Stern is sending out STEVE RITCHIE to parrot information he HAS TO KNOW is false (especially in light of them screwing him over with the legendary "as designed" non-fix for GoT Prem/LE mechanical design problem with the orbit), and they are loading up pinside with shills shouting down anyone who mentions the truth of their current playfields sucking due to much heavier cratering than earlier this century and all of the late 20th century, STERN KNOWS they're putting out an inferior playfield. And cutting them slack by letting the shills get away with denying the truth, or excusing them sending Steve to do their dirty PR work is not helping anyone.

No, actually as an unverified fake account, YOU got nothing. Trolling here or to me over and over on PM when I've asked you to stop bothering me until you're verified (because you're a fake/troll account) is still trolling, and you're using this fake account because you don't want to ruin your "good" rep on your verified account. You're not fooling anyone paying attention. Vpns and spoofed IPs can't change writing habits. You might persuade the dumbest that you're someone else, but that's about it.

Try verifying your fake pinside account and maybe then people will take anything you say seriously.

Let me boil it down to a VERY simple A/B for you:

A> CPR is using better wood and it does not crater, only dimples like the old pre-2008 "normal"
B> Stern is using lesser wood and it DOES crater much more noticibly than old pre-2008 "normal"

People saying Stern playfield wood is the same as it's always been are lying or blind, and CPRs very clear explanation of why things changed in 2008 and what choices they made (better) vs what choices Stern made (worse) give us the why in great detail.

You can mock all you want, but like I told you in PM when you were so desperate to be heard you couldn't stop PMing me, I'm not interacting with a fake account. Get verified and we can debate in the open. Until then, I'm not interacting with you. Using unverified shill accounts is cowardly. Fortunately I can block you on the forums, so goodbye, phony account.