Was looking to trade my MBr for a TS4 or WOZ. Man this thread makes me sad…

Is that a song or just pinball muttering madness?

That is great to hear. Yeah GF is just too much multiball and then the rules depth is agitatingly detailed. I like TS4 casually, wasn’t sure if the code held up at home. Thanks for your thoughts!

I will not spend another dime with JJP until Pirates gets completed (maybe never). Only own one other, Wonka.

Sold the rest, WOZ, DI, Guns, GONE!

Done.

If anyone is interested in a MBr and driving distance to PGH hit me up.

DI LE is now _gone_, to a fellow Pinsider.

$$$ for $$$, I took a non-shallow bath on the sale, but if I think about all the enjoyment I got out of owning the machine for 6-1/2 years (especially early, during beta!), I got my money's worth.

...but I'll need to see a pretty radical change in their corporate climate before I own another JJP.

For me, I just cut your statement off at the end so it reads "I will not spend another dime with JJP". Even if they released new code today it wouldn't suddenly mean they've changed their ways, so it wouldn't get me back to thinking about buying one of their games.

JAWS reference...good thing JJP didn't release it, but it may have had a shark that would allow balls in its mouth (after marketing focus groups indicated the likelihood of more sales), but it would have sucked (them).

At least the blinky lights look good. I cannot imagine anyone buying a new JJP if they continue to not finish games. I really want a Harry Potter pin, but zero chance I buy one NIB because the value drops in half (or at least by 25%). Losing money on pins is ok, but dropping 5-6k is too much for me to swallow.

JJP should respond to why they refuse to update the codes.

I would assume it's the same reason Stern was behind on their updates, they didn't have the resources and what resources they had were focused on what they just released or are about to release.

Maybe too busy getting their version of scorbit/insider connected working. Hinted at in a video almost a year ago.

LTG : )

Maybe they should let us know the progress of this after a year?

Maybe they have zero plans to do any updates and feel that playing ostrich is the best strategy?

They’ve learned their lesson. If they don’t say what everyone wants to hear and then deliver, they get crucified.

Better to stay shtum and let the cranks take turns being the middleman in a circle jerk.

Stern learned, no doubt JJP will as well. There was a hell of an uprise 10 some-odd years ago. I remember, at the time, Star Trek was under coded and Pinside was very vocal. I wonder if Pinside was an influencer on that issue?

What incentive do they have to do more code? They already sold the machines and aren’t making new ones. Sucks and I guess alienate future buyers, so shortsighted.

Having repeat customers?

Yeah good point. I guess I’ve never played enough JJP besides TS4 to appreciate the shallow code. Is it as bad as the Spooky Ultraman code?

To be clear, there are a number of JJP games with really good code (WoZ, TH, DI, etc). It just fell off after they had private equity step in. Sad.

I wouldn't say JJP has "shallow" code. Every JJP I've played has very deep code, actually. The issue is either incomplete code (e.g., no final wizard mode aka POTC or imbalanced scoring and too-many multiballs (GnR, GF). Most earlier JJP games have excellent code and depth, up to Wonka (POTC excepted).

...and, the number of JJP machines still advertising Scorbit.

dumbest comment of the day.

Yeah, but unfortunately it also seems to pretty well sum up what JJP's thinking and approach to it has been for the last 4 years.

Doesn't mean it aint true.

Thats easy: i have decided to NOT buy 2 more pins from them because of lacking code support. Thats a loss of 20K or more for them. And i am not the only one. I personally knew 6 more people who put their money into other pinball companys wares.
i don´t know what it cost for them to hire a coder to polish the code for the handful of machines but i bet, it would be far far less than the loss of non sold machines.

Did JJP promise more code and there are spots on the playfield for it, but they didn’t deliver? Or is this just folks wanting more code to make the game better/deeper?

I have a 2019 car that does not drive on its own, has not had any manufacture updates since I bought it. I don’t expect it to one day self drive…unless that is when I bought it they said it would do so some day.

I have a GZ and a MBr. GZ is perfect; would love more code on MBr but that’s just how it is and I knew that going in.

Appreciate the discussion as an interested JJP buyer; based on this discussion though I should go more to WOZ and less TS4.

Your comment broke my heart

Yes. Multiple times.

Ok ok that is definately fair. 100%. Yeah dirtbag move to sell something with the promise of it will be finished and then never do so. Very shortsighted to alienate their customer base and expect people to step back up and buy again. I can see why you all are pissed.

Apprently it's fraud

I was thinking when people complained there wasn’t a second wizard mode, that is at the level only Elwin would see. But I guess in that example it’s something like mini wizard modes like Planet X in GZ…which gotta be in there to make it complete.

Pirates still doesn't have the final wizard mode more than 5 years after the game first shipped from the factory. And that mode was listed in the JJP-created rules sheet they issued when it shipped, and there's an insert for it on the playfield.

true, but look at game sales since gnr, waaaaay down. They will learn or they will starve.

Yep, they've lost me forever as a customer. I won't buy another one of their games, no matter how good it looks.

They haven't lost me forever, but they've lost me short-term. First pin was GNRLE. Grabbed FF prem last year. Annual purchases for the next few years won't be JJP unless and until they demonstrate lasting support.

Yep, this is me. I buy 2-3 NIB games a year on average. I’d like one of those to be a JJP and frequently it has been. But I won’t buy another until they make Godfather balanced and get rid of the never ending stream of connected multiballs.

I took this post and got excited for days. Didn't realize the year on the comment. Damn....

That is criminally stupid!! They haven't even finished their best rated pin. That is a baaaad omen.

I’m fine if they abandon code and tank JJP prices. I’ll keep collecting them at steep discounts! Eventually, someone will figure out how to recode these games

Ha, we're in the very early stages of thst now; and it's utterly terrible

Do tell? I was thinking about this the other day on how to go about re-coding GNR. I thought I read on a post where Keefer gave some detail on it. I can’t remember exactly

I mean, JJP's are security locked, can't even edit a song on it. I'm curious how you can even access it.

Oh I meant older games. It'd taken a long time to get just to this point, dreaming aboot modern games is far away. Plus, yiu just have some yahoo making thr code, and it isn't easy.

Don’t care about the scoring, the layout is good enough, not the best ever BUT

The light show, 21 song catalog, animations, band involvement, it’s beautiful, unique features I’ve mentioned before AND

When you crank it up, select the various song modes you get a concert experience in a pinball machine like none other. And that is FUN!

The people that have to hate JJP because they bring out the knee pads for Stern and Elwin in particular, I don’t get it. Whatever.

I own all types of pins. Theme, content and FUN factor 1st.