(Topic ID: 325781)

Pinball Eternal Game Announcement (Official Thread)

By dpadam450

1 year ago


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    There are 313 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
    #251 3 months ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Really? Done as in full ruleset completed and programmed? Is there a gameplay video available to watch?

    The next video will be it. Beginning or the end of this venture. It takes time to make a proper trailer, the actual one these record labels are going to show off. The trailer the bands will show off. The one that will be the "Pinball Eternal Official Trailer" to hopefully drive sales. I like sharing but it would be stupid to relelase a half ass stream of me playing with a static camera just for pinside. I've been pretty honest with my product along the way: so it's at the point of viability and I'm really going to crunch my price as best I can.

    Technically I'm lying, because the gamplay rules+animations of the software itself is not Beta. The playfield, shots, mechs, things all work and have gone through some amount of testing. Rules and modes are going to start going in within a week or so. I have some of them in my head, just need to code them. I have some test LCD animations of zombies/demons animating and playing reactions. I have a list of callouts I'm going to record. Unknown if I will get Kataklysm lead singer to do them or not. I have a private list of people I've met and sent behind the scenes of the mechs and animations. Everyone approves. Nobody is upset(that I know of) about any possibility of price going up. Keyword: possibility. I'll do as best I can.

    I have two more smaller bands for music. Gorgatron (which is cool cuz I have a mini playfield called the Torturetorium which is their song) and The Absence which have a song called Coffinized, which I have a feature where the player becomes Coffinized when they hit the coffin power up enough. I have some unique rules planned. I still have a laundry list general stuff to do and I am picking random things. Tonight I threw a ball in my homemade scoop assembly a thousand times. I'm taking a break to eat and will get my ass back out and slam that scoop thousands more times. A mix of durability testing, private playtesting for feedback, possibility to open shots a tad bit wider. Really anything. If someone has a great idea, that isn't some brand new hard to make mech, then I am all ears to them. I need this game to ship and work out of the box no issues. I still need to put in over 200 more hours of work to get this thing done. I've been working my ass off though, so those hours are going quick.

    Quoted from metallik:

    The last images I recall seeing of this game, it was basically a bash toy and an orbit

    Yea if you followed, I told people that was a prototype to prove I could build some mechs and trigger them, and show the theme. Right now I think I have a really strong first product. I think it will be accepted. If I can make the schedule work and I have 3 games ready, I'll slide into Texas pinball fest. 99% chance that doesn't happen though. Far to ship or drive games and a little bit tight still. However, I'll have a local event here with multiple machines so you will see a lot of footage more than just a 2 minute trailer. I have plans.

    #252 3 months ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    I gave you a small window into a business before it is born. Just wait a little longer. If nothing appeals here to you, and I can't teach you anything, then you are just telling everyone how YOU would start a pinball company at this point. Nobody else is visiting my website every month for something to come back here and tell me "gotcha you suck I visited your website again".

    I have followed the project just like many other homebrews. You have made it all public after all. I have visited your website 3 times out of curiosity. Each time there were some strange claims like "We will release several games in 2023".
    I would have zero criticism, if it would be just a homebrew/passion project. But when you talk about sales, release dates and take preorder money (1st post) then it's open to some reality checks.

    You made yet another bold claim like the game is now done. Partially quoting "metallik", according to pictures shown before the game was missing:
    -Defined shots
    -Code/Software
    -Inserts
    -Lighting
    -Display/animations
    -Scoring

    Are those all really finished now?

    Edit:
    Never mind. According to your previous post, those things are still at the idea state.
    So you have been working on the fun stuff so far. Brainstorming ideas and making rough whitewood with few mechs on it.
    Next comes the hard part where reality kicks in. That's where designers realize (many before you) that 85% of the work is still ahead.

    I'm once again amazed, why would anyone waste time and energy at this stage on premium features when even the basic stuff hasn't been figured out yet.

    PS. Sorry for being a party pooper.

    #253 3 months ago

    Shit or get off the pot!

    #254 3 months ago

    Viper, I just don't get why you have this much energy and on my project specifically. I have nothing really additional to give you whether you want it or not.

    Barrels of Fun was founded by multiple people 5 years ago. There is an Adam Savage video where the guy says he started on that topper 3 years ago. Turner, a company with 5 guys who worked 3-4 years at deeproot + released their game right after mine, still have no game done for sale after 6 years and multiple people. Videogames with 100+ employees get delayed 2 years. There is also TiltBob who has been working who knows how many hours to launch his company/first game. I'm delayed two years. NASA just delayed putting a man on the moon again for 2 years. Cut me a little slack or not. I had to learn a lot of stuff a normal pinball designer doesn't have to think about. A lot of people on pinside reached out to me about lawyers, various things, some are already in queue for the game when it ships. This thread was 100% a benefit to me. I'm humble and smart enough to know that even today, this is not a 100% in the bag done deal. I'd ask that you at least stop posting until I release the next major thing for you to actually critique. You've already critiqued the past.

    #255 3 months ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Barrels of Fun was founded by multiple people 5 years ago. There is an Adam Savage video where the guy says he started on that topper 3 years ago. Turner, a company with 5 guys who worked 3-4 years at deeproot + released their game right after mine, still have no game done for sale after 6 years and multiple people.

    Again, I'm sorry for being so harsh. I'm trying to switch to friendlier mode. I'm starting to sound like Finnish Kaneda.

    The point is that the overpromising and delays should not be the accepted norm in pinball or the gaming industry. And working in the game industry, you are probably well aware how that has hugely backfired for software companies in the recent years (even the biggest like EA/Ubisoft/Microsoft). Consumers just had enough.

    Nothing personal, it's just so frustrating to see that the history just keeps repeating itself over and over again. Nobody ever learns that pinball is hard. Even you can list many pinball companies that have struggled and even failed completely.

    Yet it's always the same pattern:
    -------------------------------------
    New designer announces a new pinball project. No prior experience, yet úber confident.
    -It's gonna be awsome!
    -It's going to be so much cheaper then others
    -Actually, going to release several!
    -Will be finished within a year
    -Accepting preorder money on day one

    It also doesn't help that you announce that the game is now done and one hour later in the next post you add that "Well, not really. I haven't actually started on the software yet".

    Just stop setting impossible expectation/goals/schedules for yourself. Take your time and you'll be fine.
    Good luck with the project. I truly mean it. I'm hoping that this will be an exception and will actually be released for sale.

    -Grumpy wannabe boomer

    #257 3 months ago

    I can't explain every decision I've made, why I made them. I believe in my heart this game will come out 100% in 2024. The draw for me to get up every day was to build the cheapest machine possible, to offer to people who otherwise are not able to buy pinball games. That's still my driving force. I'd again suggest, if you have not seen it: Things that go Bump in the Night Spooky Pinball. Look at where they started and where they are now.

    #258 3 months ago

    Tough crowd. Keep on building and I look forward to your beta video.

    #259 3 months ago
    Quoted from Zambonilli:

    Tough crowd. Keep on building and I look forward to your beta video.

    It's a bold claim. I expected much more pushback last November honestly. Pinball is littered with some unfortunate past claims that pissed people off. When someone warrants it, I like talking shit. I wish I were ahead, but at the same time, every day you learn something more. I'm glad I didn't push a game out in 2021. Like I said, stopping the machine when it's rolling (if it ever gets rolling), is extremely hard to do. The time to perfect the platform, software, decide if I want a networked features, is literally now. Easier to eat the cost now when customers aren't demanding stuff when they actually paid.

    3 weeks later
    #261 76 days ago

    I was able to move away from the Arduino package ($25) and get my chipset working ($3). The holdup was USB to PC communication that I resolved. That's $3 for the brains, not the entire board. I ordered a small test batch of various different boards that I received last week, and tested fine, so my hardware controller is 100% checked off. That was a non-negotiable thing I stuck to since day one since I knew the cost to build in house would be way cheaper. My system is more decoupled than a Stern node board ( additional smaller boards) and none of them are smart (Stern's node boards have microchips that talk to each other). I've been working on various lcd animations: jackpot+skillshot score tweens, zombies doing stuff, multiball animations, game over animations.

    I'll just give one thing maybe to help explain where I'm at and why you haven't seen anything new:
    I have a ball lock similar to foo fighters and I had to spend some time making sure it could catch the ball on time all the time. Randomness happens, balls can bounce. Sometimes it would miss. I want that to hit 100.000% of the time, so I had to work through it. Like I said before, I stopped at about 2 hours throwing a ball into a scoop and watching it spit out, but even then I still need to test scoops and all other parts a lot more before I deem it ready. The first batch of games have to work or this project could be a failure depending on what issues could come up. Showing working video clips knowing something only works 90%, just pushes you further out from the initial hype.
    Galactic Tank Force had the bent bracket situation. Whether they just missed it in testing or what doesn't matter, I just personally don't want to hold the line because an external issue is found later.
    The last few months have been the most consistent work block without gaps. I was working 4 years before my alpha video. I've been working after. I'll continue working. Sadly I have not had any people come in for focus testing just yet, but that is the next milestone.

    #262 75 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    I have a ball lock similar to foo fighters and I had to spend some time making sure it could catch the ball on time all the time. Randomness happens, balls can bounce. Sometimes it would miss. I want that to hit 100.000% of the time, so I had to work through it.

    Idk if you solved it yet or not, but you could consider adding an additional opto in front of the mech to essentially warn the mech it needs to be ready to fire. That's basically how the drop target locks on Rick and Morty works.

    #263 75 days ago

    I'll have to keep testing but so far it's good. A mix of buggy code that was delaying the up-post originally 60ms to wait for a separate locking pin to disengage. That was left in from when I first programmed the lock and was testing throwing the ball by hand. I then put in some firmware to allow the switch to engage the lock without telling the actual game software about the switch first. Last time I calculated USB packet ping it would around 10ms+, so that causes lag. By default only my flipper switches had direct control to fire solenoids. The switch at the back, inside the lock could angle back too far causing ball rebound to lift a tad bit which could cause it to do various things to get out of the lock and the posts being a little too far spread apart, in which the ball could Marvel Hulk and separate them a bit since there is some flex in the posts.

    R&M, interesting. Been a while but don't both drop targets lock at the same time always? They have 2 optos on each side inside the lock that detect ball velocity(?). I'd think one opto being triggered on either side would trigger the lock. The additional one in front here doesn't let you lock since you have to wait to see if the ball will make it inside the loop, so my guess is they are wanting 2 optos to trigger back to back first before engaging the lock, so that one outside the lock helps? Is that shot speed dependent? From the work I've been doing I'd think you could just put one opto in the back midway between the two targets. Should have plenty of time to detect the ball and trigger the drop target lock. TNA had some pretty quick locks.
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #264 75 days ago

    I’m just anxious to see more. I know making a game is a ton of work. Keep chugging along my friend!

    Quoted from dpadam450:

    I was able to move away from the Arduino package ($25) and get my chipset working ($3). The holdup was USB to PC communication that I resolved. That's $3 for the brains, not the entire board. I ordered a small test batch of various different boards that I received last week, and tested fine, so my hardware controller is 100% checked off. That was a non-negotiable thing I stuck to since day one since I knew the cost to build in house would be way cheaper. My system is more decoupled than a Stern node board ( additional smaller boards) and none of them are smart (Stern's node boards have microchips that talk to each other). I've been working on various lcd animations: jackpot+skillshot score tweens, zombies doing stuff, multiball animations, game over animations.
    I'll just give one thing maybe to help explain where I'm at and why you haven't seen anything new:
    I have a ball lock similar to foo fighters and I had to spend some time making sure it could catch the ball on time all the time. Randomness happens, balls can bounce. Sometimes it would miss. I want that to hit 100.000% of the time, so I had to work through it. Like I said before, I stopped at about 2 hours throwing a ball into a scoop and watching it spit out, but even then I still need to test scoops and all other parts a lot more before I deem it ready. The first batch of games have to work or this project could be a failure depending on what issues could come up. Showing working video clips knowing something only works 90%, just pushes you further out from the initial hype.
    Galactic Tank Force had the bent bracket situation. Whether they just missed it in testing or what doesn't matter, I just personally don't want to hold the line because an external issue is found later.
    The last few months have been the most consistent work block without gaps. I was working 4 years before my alpha video. I've been working after. I'll continue working. Sadly I have not had any people come in for focus testing just yet, but that is the next milestone.

    #265 75 days ago

    If balls are locked, that front opto tells the game to fire and hold the DT coils briefly, to hold the DTs up even if they're hit and prevent a locked ball from escaping.

    1 week later
    #266 66 days ago

    Maybe somebody finds this interesting. I was working on bringing over all my code to the new board I created. Since those came out of the PCB factory as new designs you still have to test them. Make sure they receive data/output/power up. I was playing around making sure my opto boards are all good and registering. This all runs of the same microcontroller and codebase I used 5 years ago.

    This was a painful few days of debugging. You have a list of things to do and then something always comes up. Gomez at Stern calls their opto boards "conditioning boards". They are just signal boosting boards since photo-transistors(optos) don't generate enough electrical current, so you boost with a transistor or pair of them. In the past, even going back 4 years, my code would wait a small amount of time for the opto signal to drop back to 0. If not, the following switch could be reading the old electrical value of the opto when testing the next switch. They share the same input read pin. Standup target switches that simply connect two pieces of metal didn't need that wait time.

    More for engineering guys, but I decided to set the "build optimized code" setting. I wanted to see what performance I might get boosted on my hardware. Then a week later I was testing my opto boards. That setting removed my entire opto wait loop here and replaced it with a single instruction because it thought it was faster. Instead of calling wait++ 50 times, it just dropped in wait = wait + 50 and was done in a single instruction. I figured this out because I was seeing the next input switch toggle as my opto beam was toggling on/off. I was pissed and baffled. I was adding resistors thinking I needed something somewhere to drain the transistors quicker to switch off. I eventually modified the code to perform 50,000 wait++ instruction and it still read the next switch as being toggled. It also didn't affect my framerate on the hardware so I knew right away after that. It was that optimization setting from a week ago and my code is not doing any additional work. Usually there is something called loop unrolling, but I've never had this happen before where it threw my entire code intent out the door.

    This was exhausting over a couple days. Here is what the code and generated instructions should look like without optimization.

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    4 weeks later
    #267 39 days ago

    My non-TPF update: Currently working just about every day in some capacity. I've been in a 3-4 week revision with boards. I designed two separate board designs, node based and single board. Sometimes it takes getting manufacturing and plugging things in to realize you don't like where a plug goes or maybe change something to reduce wiring etc. I had a couple stupid mistakes in designs as well. So sending the design off and waiting for it to come and sometimes just not working a day or two while in shipping, sometimes you just burn out and want a day off. I'm still stuck in that perfection process and that definitely is eating up time. This is a second job. I work it at will. Losing time sucks, but I'm in no rush. There have been some bugs out of my control with how windows maintains USB data. That took 3 hours to fix that is an unintended issue. I had a pretty hard burnout day with another bug and stepped away for a few days. Wasting 8 hours over 2-3 days on stupid software issues kills you. I like to go out and play Pinball sometimes. I'm allowed to right? I only need to sell about 5 games to become profitable still. I'm about 4 weeks behind where I want to be.

    I have nothing off the top of my head about the BoF team in any negative manner, but just to hit a point for people that are dead set this cannot happen. Their journey was about as long as mine it sounds like (5 years). They burned a lot of time to R&D that topper (which is very cool and fairly priced). In turn they are stuck using FAST boards, not internally controlled hardware. They are likely paying a lot for that. Those boards are not cheap. My journey was to build my own boards because I want the cheapest possible pinball product on the planet and you have to control that. My board that's outside flipping my game costs 1/15th of the sticker price of all the FAST boards I would require to assemble my game. Just being on the FAST board system (at their public sticker price, not sure what deal MFG's get) would surpass my entire bill of materials for my game. Was never an option for me to be on someone else's hardware. Was a long road understanding transistors vs mosfets, driver circtuits, learning physical datasheets of mosfets drive resistances, PCB design tools. I took a lot of time to learn how everything works knowing nothing about pinball and minimal circuit knowledge. Different business concepts, different paths. I want to be a cheap game. I can't persuade anyone beyond that. If you are a hard no that this won't happen and the price will never happen...I'm the only guy doing it and explaining how.

    Seeing Ninja Eclipse get some sales is exciting. I have an original theme. I also have a plastic hard top, coin door, cabinet. I've also got some sales and tons lined up for when it launches. My email list for prospective buyers grows. They get some preferences.

    + Boards nearly done
    + Increased code logic frequency of hardware from 7kHz to 14kHz.
    + I actually was never planning to have RGB LED's but I did get my own RGB boards and have that flexibility. I 100% want to support homebrew (and potentially other pinball companies in the future) and this was a needed item for that.
    + Been a while since update can't think of any major public announcements.

    My old dates were missed as someone pointed out. All I can say is when the time comes, if I collect payment on a Monday and tell you your game is shipping on Friday, then it's coming Friday. I'm a customer of pinball. I'm not a charity for R&D. Not a hobby. It's a for profit business. I worked to build a career in videogames. I used to ride a bicycle in Seattle freezing rain, no car, 1 mile a day to school. And back several times a day to get to class. My first job 20 years ago was $6.00 minimum wage. I'm making 5x what my first software job paid out of college 15 years ago. I'm of no interest to rush into a business that will definitely be stressful. Life is good right now for the first time. I'm in no interest to go full time and risk everything I've built, for a pinball company. I'm not interested in others owning a portion of what I built either by investing just to accelerate the launch by 1 year. I'm terrified of the first test customer having any issue, including shipping related issues outside my control. That would be tough after all the work invested.

    This was just a song I've had in the back of my head for years now that I wanted to just record a sample of. Hang with me a little bit longer. Stay Pinball. Stay Metal.

    #270 38 days ago

    Hmm. I'm not planning to build these all day myself. And I'm not sure people understand what winding coils means. This isn't hand wrapping, it just means I plan to have my own motors in parallel winding at the click of a button.

    Maybe this could help you understand the concept. This is a guitar pickup mfg. These wind up to 14,000 wraps. Most pinball coils are 900 wraps. Imagine if at the press of a button I could wind 4 to 8 pinball coils in 60 seconds. That's a net positive. These aren't nano materials where I need a $100k fabricator, they are just wires wrapped on a spool with a $4 motor.

    Just the way it has to be unfortunately. Maybe something changes to be more cost effective down the road but I'm working out what is the most cost effective way to build a pinball game. Even if a new coil manufacturer pops up tomorrow, and it would only cost me $1 more per coil, then yes I could consider that, especially if it helps my throughput. I'm flexible to do exactly what it takes to build the cheapest game.

    I only own a single Stern Pro because I'm tied to pinball. It helped to look at their build, software, and helped me refine my personal understanding of game design. Outside of that I would never have bought it. For some of us pinball at current prices is not an option financially or it's tough to put a value on owning a personal game in house. This is my venture into it and what I want to take a stab at.

    And I've said it once before: The company who builds Stern's coils I've called. We talked, they never even gave me a price even at 50 game volume. They also supply PinballLife but to go through them now you are paying 2 other companies labor overhead + CEOS, before I pay a higher price and then sell to you. Right now I actually cannot get coils direct unfortunately. I will hit them up again and see / see what minimum order quantity they would entertain. I've had people hit me up about patent lawyers here a year ago "This guy is the patent attorney for 3 pinball companies". Hit the guy up on LinkedIn and email. Don't respond. I know you guys are trying to give advice but sometimes shit don't get concluded until you spend 1000 hours on it. Some avenues don't work out.

    #271 37 days ago

    [removed] I just last night discovered this project because I don't follow pinside much. Talking a big game.

    I'm not planning to build these all day myself.

    Sure, you will have equipment. But if you think there's no work involved, you are crazy. You're going to be busy if you plan on doing everything yourself. You act as though labor is 100% free. Once you hire someone to set up and run the coil machine, how much are you paying them? How much does it cost for you to just manage paying them? You'll start to understand why coils cost what they do. Wait until you have to give support.

    The other thing I don't understand is you keep talking about how your boards are super cheap and replaceable if they break etc. You also complain saying what happens if boards are out of stock, that's why you need to do everything in house. Great. What happens when there is a shortage on your supply chain and YOU can't get everything you need to build yours? Your customers are still stuck. It's the same problem, but instead of having a team of people devoted to sourcing more boards, you're relying on yourself. What happens if you end up having kids (you appear to not have any, and maybe that's the plan, who knows) but if god forbid they or you or your wife gets sick and you can't fill orders because you're the sole guy? Maybe you just don't care about the future of your company if you aren't there? Let me tell you - 99% of people buying your machine aren't going to know a lick of what you do - they aren't going to manufacturer their own parts to fix it when it breaks. And believe me, please please please, believe me... your game will break.

    I applaud your efforts. I just think you are kidding yourself. If it's just to make a hobby game for tinkerers, great. But if you're making something commercial that's supposed to be purchased to go into a bar? (according to your vids) You better have a high standard of quality and know what you're doing! There's a reason it takes teams of people to build quality games, whether they are pinballs or video games. Do it all yourself, and you're going to miss things.

    #273 37 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Hmm. I'm not planning to build these all day myself. And I'm not sure people understand what winding coils means. This isn't hand wrapping, it just means I plan to have my own motors in parallel winding at the click of a button.
    Maybe this could help you understand the concept. This is a guitar pickup mfg. These wind up to 14,000 wraps. Most pinball coils are 900 wraps. Imagine if at the press of a button I could wind 4 to 8 pinball coils in 60 seconds. That's a net positive. These aren't nano materials where I need a $100k fabricator, they are just wires wrapped on a spool with a $4 motor.
    Just the way it has to be unfortunately. Maybe something changes to be more cost effective down the road but I'm working out what is the most cost effective way to build a pinball game. Even if a new coil manufacturer pops up tomorrow, and it would only cost me $1 more per coil, then yes I could consider that, especially if it helps my throughput. I'm flexible to do exactly what it takes to build the cheapest game.
    I only own a single Stern Pro because I'm tied to pinball. It helped to look at their build, software, and helped me refine my personal understanding of game design. Outside of that I would never have bought it. For some of us pinball at current prices is not an option financially or it's tough to put a value on owning a personal game in house. This is my venture into it and what I want to take a stab at.
    And I've said it once before: The company who builds Stern's coils I've called. We talked, they never even gave me a price even at 50 game volume. They also supply PinballLife but to go through them now you are paying 2 other companies labor overhead + CEOS, before I pay a higher price and then sell to you. Right now I actually cannot get coils direct unfortunately. I will hit them up again and see / see what minimum order quantity they would entertain. I've had people hit me up about patent lawyers here a year ago "This guy is the patent attorney for 3 pinball companies". Hit the guy up on LinkedIn and email. Don't respond. I know you guys are trying to give advice but sometimes shit don't get concluded until you spend 1000 hours on it. Some avenues don't work out.

    The coil manufacturer who makes coils for Stern does not make coils for PBL. Just correcting the record there. I know the manufacturer and I find them difficult to work with. I also believe their product is sub-standard. This is just my opinion, BTW.
    If making a coil was as simple as spinning copper wire around something (as suggested), we'd all be doing it.
    First, you have to make a CAD drawing of the bobbin. Then you have to make an injection mold of said bobbin. Outsource the actual production or spend $100,000 on a commercial injection molder.
    Then you have to make a CAD drawing of the lugs. Then you have to manufacture said lugs. Outsource this, or spend who knows how much on the equipment required.
    Then you have to attach said lugs to the coil, this will require a proper press riveter if you want to do it cost effectively; cost is around $15,000 for an entry level machine.
    Then you have to *spin* the coil with the proper gauge wire (or wires). To do this efficiently and cost effectively, you will need to spend upwards of $50,000, even for a moderate output of product.
    Then you have to strip and tin the wires. To effectively and efficiently strip the wires you will need an automated wire stripper; $2000 or so should do it.
    Then you have to solder the wires to the lugs, a solder pot will be required.
    Then you (sometimes) have to solder a diode to the lugs. To effectively cut and bend the diode wires you will need yet another gizmo.
    Then you have to wrap the coil with a label. This will require making them yourself on a desktop printer, or finding a place that can do it the *right* way and print on tape.
    Oh, and you'll also need a coil sleeve, yet another CAD drawing and plastic injection tool. Plan on spending a year or two figuring out the correct formula that wears well and also never binds up.
    Simple enough, maybe. Or maybe not. You'll figure it out, hopefully.
    You could simply pay $10 or so for the coil, or decide to strike out on your own and do it all yourself *cheaper*. It will make for a great education and may well be worth it in the long run, who knows?
    Manufacturing appears simple at first blush, but the deeper you get into it, the more you learn to repect it, and all the processes involved that everyone else takes for granted.
    ...and sorry for all the edits. I was just trying to make this more readable/understandable.

    #274 37 days ago

    I just got back from a concert. I just don't know. I posted some new boards that are out in my machine right now working. My machine has always run on my own parts and I'm figuring things out and learning.

    [Removed]

    #275 37 days ago

    bill-hader-eating-popcorn.gifbill-hader-eating-popcorn.gif

    #276 37 days ago

    I have zero issue. I'm sorry that I came off like that.
    My statement is more general; manufacturing cost effectively is way harder and more complicated than people think. Anyone who wades in backwards saying * this is going to be easy* is putting a lot at risk; see Deeproot and Zidware, to name just a couple.
    I want all manufacturers to be successful, it's literally part of my business model. That's why I want everyone to that goes into it to have their eyes wide open.

    #277 37 days ago

    World peace!

    #278 37 days ago

    The fact that some dude is that pissed about a comment how I build my own coils, [removed]

    I think it's genuine and we will likely talk again. I don't own any $100,000 equipment but I have coils and a working game. Reading that is guiding customers to believe my coils can't ever possibly work and my entire manufacturing dive 5 years is essentially a dead end, short of putting in $100k. I cannot concede that statement. I spoke personally about flying up to Chicago what 2 months ago? The lecture I'm basically nobody and doing shit wrong, not cool. Other people are launching pinball companies. I'm doing pretty well I think all thinks considered on a $4,000 budget.

    I've been doing the work. As much as people have advice, sometimes it's about stuff I've already put 100 hours into. I currently have several ways to make various coils. None are injection molded, though I'd love to be on standard bobbins. This is an affordable model line built with whatever is the most inexpensive bill of materials I can come up with at the end of the day. I don't care who builds it. There is no blueprint for this to say I'm doing a good or bad job. I'm just doing a job.

    The coil brand I saw in my Stern I did call and actually I believe they said they supply some other game companies. Maybe pinballife at the time had the same bobbin company, maybe they had nothing to do with that call. I was merely pointing to any generic supplier for references. I really don't remember who or what or honestly wtf I'm talking about in terms of PBL's coils. I talk to so many people. I really wanted to know Stern's coil suppliers cost. I spoke with that guy maybe 15 minutes. Has anyone here (other than Terry above) ever called a coil company? I do have a lot of hours put in that some people are not conceding an ounce of credit. You don't do all this shit because you are just an Arduino tinkerer making a flashy LED light for your wall. I'm below an Arduino now. I have my own hardware I control outright that runs pinball machines. I also have my own completely unique insert method.

    I thought about giving away a ton of info just now just because I know I haven't publicly shown really anything in a long time. But every time I do it doesn't seem to progress anything anyway and just a time sink.

    #279 37 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    The fact that some dude is that pissed about a comment how I build my own coils, [removed]

    Did you hit the report button? Mods tend to stick to threads they are interested in and high volume postings.

    #280 36 days ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    The coil manufacturer who makes coils for Stern does not make coils for PBL. Just correcting the record there. I know the manufacturer and I find them difficult to work with. I also believe their product is sub-standard. This is just my opinion, BTW.
    If making a coil was as simple as spinning copper wire around something (as suggested), we'd all be doing it.
    First, you have to make a CAD drawing of the bobbin. Then you have to make an injection mold of said bobbin. Outsource the actual production or spend $100,000 on a commercial injection molder.......

    You made some excellent points and just made what I said all the more true. HIPOT test/impedance test equipment must cost a lot as well, which you didn't mention. The problem here with Adam is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

    #282 36 days ago

    Looked to me that Terry was giving some good advice. Let's face it, you are taking this too personal. Even the comments about the spouse, while improper to go there, where not what you make them out to be.

    I'm still following, but it feels like this is falling apart and reminds a bit like the Homepin thread.

    #284 36 days ago

    You are going to get modded again. Trust me, complaining about it won't work. You have to open a thread in the moderation section.

    #285 36 days ago

    I'm generally interested in reading about this game and look forward to seeing progress pics and video. It's not easy to engineer and program a scratch build pin in one's free time.

    Great work so far!!

    #286 35 days ago

    5 years ago I never touched a pinball machine. I can only learn from those willing to impart knowledge. And I have.

    For a business partner, who I emailed 2 months ago about flying to see his place, shake hands with, that has known me for well over 2 years to write all that is unwarranted. The time to teach me, a naive pinball guy, be a friend, guide me to what $175,000 tooling is suggested: That time was 2 years ago. The public post is unwarranted if someone is actually trying to be a friend and impart pinball knowledge and guidance.

    There is nothing factually incorrect in my statement that every video I posted runs on coils I mostly build for $3. For that much hatred generated from that statement. [Removed]

    People can find me elsewhere. I'll be around. I'm leaving because of the mere fact my posts, on topic about pinball coils are being deleted. I'm not interested in being publicly whipped if I cannot defend myself.

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #287 35 days ago

    Bro rage quit.

    #288 35 days ago

    Nah, I think it's more like this...

    #289 35 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    For that much hatred

    Hyperbole much?

    And I agree with the others, you're wasting a lot of your time reinventing things other people have figured out already. I'm waiting to see shotmaps and rules for your games and you're still trying to figure out how to wind coils? Pinball "eternal-development" indeed. Zidware 2.0.

    #290 35 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    People can find me elsewhere. I'll be around. I'm leaving

    So, can OP lock thread or does a mod have to?

    #291 35 days ago

    I'm confused

    #292 35 days ago

    I was trying to get him to just take a Pinside break to chill out and get in a better head space. I thought he was taking things too hard. The deleted Terry post was just too much for him.

    I feel like there is too much censorship here at times and maybe that was one instance. Don't know.

    #293 35 days ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    I was trying to get him to just take a Pinside break to chill out and get in a better head space. I thought he was taking things too hard. The deleted Terry post was just too much for him.
    I feel like there is too much censorship here at times and maybe that was one instance. Don't know.

    Yeah, I'm with you on the censorship here... it's odd how his post gets removed but some how a keyboard warrior can bring up the dudes Wife and that doesn't get moderated. Strange.

    #294 35 days ago

    Truth hurts egos

    Takes a big ego to start your own pinball company and think you've figured out a better process than people that've been doing it for decades

    I'll agree, the random comments about his wife were really out of place.

    #295 35 days ago

    Me too. I feel like I'm missing some context.

    Quoted from Heatmiser:

    Yeah, I'm with you on the censorship here... it's odd how his post gets removed but some how a keyboard warrior can bring up the dudes Wife and that doesn't get moderated. Strange.

    The OP posted some comments that were weirdly/inappropriately personal, and it wasn't clear what was going on.

    The OP was asked to open a moderator feedback thread to discuss the situation, but he didn't respond before deactivating his account.

    #296 35 days ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Me too. I feel like I'm missing some context.

    The OP posted some comments that were weirdly/inappropriately personal, and it wasn't clear what was going on.
    The OP was asked to open a moderator feedback thread to discuss the situation, but he didn't respond before deactivating his account.

    Seems fairly clear to me. If I made passing reference to a moderator's wife in a series of posts along with previously undisclosed personal details about her I would expect to have my account nuked from orbit within the hour. Going all Pinkerton on a user's wife because you don't agree with something they posted is weird at best and harassment/stalking at worst.

    #297 35 days ago

    I must have missed the wife stuff out not read closely enough what's still somewhere in the thread

    #298 35 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    I must have missed the wife stuff out not read closely enough what's still somewhere in the thread

    It looks like the offending posts have been edited/removed, but I'll sum it up. Pinstersix, in response to dpadam's post, disclosed the occupation of dpadam's wife along with making passing references to having sex with her. Since dpadam and his wife do not share the same last name, pinstersix must've done some serious background research into dpadam's family to find this information out. Which is why dpadam flipped out about his post being moderated and not pinstersix's. How behavior like pinstersix's doesn't result in an instant permaban is beyond me.

    #299 35 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    I must have missed the wife stuff out not read closely enough what's still somewhere in the thread

    Quoted from bdw85:

    If I made passing reference to a moderator's wife in a series of posts along with previously undisclosed personal details about her I would expect to have my account nuked from orbit within the hour.

    If the offending posts were reported at the time, they probably would've been addressed. But again, it wasn't clear by whom, what, or where these comments were and the OP didn't seem to want to explain to us what exactly was going on.

    Unless the OP wants to follow up, we will consider the matter closed.

    #300 35 days ago
    Quoted from bdw85:

    It looks like the offending posts have been edited/removed, but I'll sum it up. Pinstersix, in response to dpadam's post, disclosed the occupation of dpadam's wife along with making passing references to having sex with her. Since dpadam and his wife do not share the same last name, pinstersix must've done some serious background research into dpadam's family to find this information out. Which is why dpadam flipped out about his post being moderated and not pinstersix's. How behavior like pinstersix's doesn't result in an instant permaban is beyond me.

    Dude you nailed it!

    There are 313 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.

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