(Topic ID: 325781)

Pinball Eternal Announcement (Official Thread)

By dpadam450

16 days ago


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    There are 152 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    50
    #1 16 days ago

    Hello Pinside,

    Today I released the first Alpha Gameplay Trailer of a game I have been working on. I will be maintaining this thread.

    I got into pinball almost 4 years ago. A videogame company I was working for purchased a Bally Lost World that kept having issues. They would slap an "Out of Order" flyer on it many times and wait days or weeks for a tech to come out. I started looking into how pinball machines work and wondering if I couldn't build something cheaper. I've been working in the videogame industry for many years including EA/Take-Two. Videogames nowadays are free in some cases, offer endless hours of gameplay, and require no maintenance. $7,000-$12,000 is a steep threshold to get into the steel ball hobby. There are plenty of Pinball companies now, so I don't want to be just another pinball company doing the same thing. Let Stern be Stern, making the games the quality they have set. I see this is a new market and is much needed.

    This product has been in development for several years. Nearly all parts and electronics are built in house, and still finalizing and testing various parts. I have built an entire production and software platform to expand our product line to multiple titles going forward. I spent over 1,000 hours designing, researching, licensing music, and so many other tasks one by one. And still more to go.

    Final price is set at $2,100. We will be manufacturing a small first-batch of 5 to 10 games at an early discount price of $1,800. These will be final edition, full warranty games. We just want to make sure that everything from shipping, to quality control, is bulletproof before scaling. If you are interested in pre-ordering, get in touch via email at [email protected]. We will accept deposits starting Jan. 1, 2023. Our deposits are contractually 100% refundable if we do not ship you a game. In my journey I've learned of more than one company taking large amounts of money (millions) to play with as they wish, and never ship a single game. We built the product first.

    There are still many awesome and unique features planned to announce for Pinball Eternal. Lights and coin door obviously on the list once gameplay is final. For users who want a one-of-a-kind custom game (bar, restaurant, home-use, etc), we also have a custom shop and pinball designer software. You can design a game on your computer, and play it in real-time. When happy, send over the file, and from there we can cut, assemble, upload programming and ship out. There is some early info here:

    We will have a booth at Free Play Florida in Orlando again this weekend, Nov 18-20. Hope to see you there and talk pinball. If you can't make it, I'm also looking at hiring some help depending on where we get to in 2023.

    Follow us via social media if you are interested in the most up to date info.

    Cheers, thanks for stopping by. If you want to help support the cause, I have shirts available on the website.

    https://www.pawlowskipinball.com
    https://www.facebook.com/PawlowskiPinball/
    https://twitter.com/PawlowskiPin
    https://www.instagram.com/pawlowskipinball/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcn9iHJSIbiPuJX2pV1_rtg

    #2 16 days ago

    This looks so awesome!

    #4 16 days ago

    Wow! You may have kept me in a hobby I can no longer afford.

    #5 16 days ago

    This looks interesting! Excited to hear more about it and see more!

    #6 16 days ago

    this would be an awesome price point

    #7 16 days ago

    Nice work! Will you be at TPF?
    I’d love to play this one - spikes are badass!
    Good luck

    #8 16 days ago
    Quoted from Vino:

    Nice work! Will you be at TPF?

    Man I was hoping to but I'm behind schedule and don't want to book another expo after this week until final model complete. They sell out quick but we'll see. Likely a no for 2023 sadly.

    #9 16 days ago

    So cool. Amazing work man.. i think u just might be on to something! Best of luck to ya!! Pinball is Eternalllllllll (growl voice of course!)

    #10 16 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Today I released the first Alpha Gameplay Trailer of a game I have been working on. I will be maintaining this thread.

    How much did you have to pay Testament and the other bands for their music rights?

    Easy to obtain the licences?

    Royalty paid per song used?

    rd

    12
    #11 16 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    How much did you have to pay Testament and the other bands for their music rights?

    Not too much. These bands all do the same work as Metallica but accept less pay because they love what they do. They understand not everyone has millions, and my pricing isn't greedy. I had a budget and let them know what I could offer. Various upfront fees + royalties based on each bands popularity. There a video of Chuck Billy playing pinball. I know Kerry King is a pinball guy too, so well see if we don't get a slayer one. I have spoken with Dave Mustaine and he is interested in doing a Megadeth game. If this does well, then Megadeth is first on the list if we can work something out. I don't believe it will be picked up by the other companies.

    #12 16 days ago

    Very cool!!! This is a full size game correct?

    #14 16 days ago
    Quoted from The_Gorilla:

    Wow! You may have kept me in a hobby I can no longer afford.

    Some people never could afford it to begin with. I talk to people that immediately say "When it's done let me know. Can't afford other games.". I think there are lot's of people not being served because of pricing, which is why I say it is a new market. Also my current weight with everything is ~60 lbs, so cheaper shipping as well.

    Quoted from manadams:

    Very cool!!! This is a full size game correct?

    This prototype is about 42" long. Final is going to be 46". With that some things may move, but mostly just pushing things back 4". It's currently 24" wide, which I think will be hard to slim down with the current design, however my backbox is flush with the cabinet, so the total footprint is similar.

    #15 16 days ago

    This is cool

    #16 16 days ago

    Following!

    #17 16 days ago

    Could your game fit in a standard cabinet? Some folks would be willing to pay more for a game that looks less Zizzle.

    Very cool! Don't set your price point too low -- if it compromises support or quality.

    14
    #18 16 days ago

    Haha, awesome!
    Suck it Mando Topper!

    #19 16 days ago
    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    Don't set your price point too low.

    You scared all games will lose value? Let this guy worry about his price point. He already said one of the big motivations in this was to make it AFFORDABLE….a large number of people are priced out that would like to own a pin but can’t. Prices are inflated and over valued and everyone knows it. Sterns home pin is over priced for what it is when the quick video shows what these games may offer.

    Still a lot of questions everyone has so let’s sit back and enjoy as more details are shared. If these are comparable to full size games and full featured at a REASONABLE price point it will be a breath of fresh air to this hobby that has just been overcome with GREED.

    Following and very interested…..

    -1
    #20 16 days ago

    Your price point does seem aggressively low considering the market. Then again, the game looks pretty janky. So...get what you pay for...

    Best of luck in the building and customer support. Pinball people aren't at all demanding...

    #21 16 days ago

    I'll be watching this unfold, very interesting concept!

    #22 16 days ago
    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    Could your game fit in a standard cabinet? Some folks would be willing to pay more for a game that looks less Zizzle.

    Very cool! Don't set your price point too low.

    Never heard the term Zizzle, but the cabinet is going to change a little bit in dimensions. The board is not equipped to be fitted like a standard playfield, so that won't work. I've lived in many apartments for 12 years, so portability is a cool feature here. The entire game+cabinet collapse and fits in my back seat. My main focus is building something I believe in, and pricing is something I hold value to. Maintaining the same ideas, cabinet sizes, backbox exact dimensions from the 80's was never my focus. Those companies exist. Things will change between now and final, so both of us will have to see, and hopefully you like it.

    I will definitely make decent money. This is a side gig unless it gets massively hyped. I'm not looking to buy a massive warehouse like JJP. We will be garage based, but looking at 1000sq ft warehousing. I spent 4 years to make an affordable game. $2,000 on any item, pinball, guitars, etc is still a lot to me. There are guys in bands that willingly accept less money in the metal world to do what they love. Not everyone needs to be Metallica to be happy. Extrapolated to 1000 machines, I'm saving like $2 million dollars in parts because this is in-house tech and hardware. I will raise the price if something changes in the coming months to warrant it, but that price has been run and calculated and crunched very specifically. That is the ONLY reason I built or want to have this company. Provide something different at the most affordable price I can afford.

    #23 16 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    Your price point does seem aggressively low considering the market. So...get what you pay for... Then again, the game looks pretty janky.

    There are cheap Kia cars that perform the same functionality as a Ferari. Right now Pinball is all entirely Ferari's. If you own Ferari's, and you can afford them, then not my intended market. If you have valid feedback, I will accept it. If you just want me to fail because you didn't like my prototype ALPHA trailer, then...cool(?) You have to at least commend me for building entire scoop and flipper assemblies (including coils) for under $8 ea. And making a working machine and pricing it as such. It's not polished just yet...

    #25 16 days ago

    Love that you are envisioning something that is just in a whole other realm of affordability!

    Does packaging this in kit form make any sense? I think I've got enough chops to assemble something as a fun project, having done a playfield swap and a from-scratch rewiring of a WPC machine.

    #26 16 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    There are cheap Kia cars that perform the same functionality as a Ferari. Right now Pinball is all entirely Ferari's. If you own Ferari's, and you can afford them, then not my intended market. If you have valid feedback, I will accept it. If you just want me to fail because you didn't like my prototype ALPHA trailer, then...cool(?) You have to at least commend me for building entire scoop and flipper assemblies (including coils) for under $8 ea. And making a working machine and pricing it as such. It's not polished just yet...

    I'm not trying to be mean for the sake of it. I think you're clearly very intelligent, self-motivated, and solved a lot of complicated engineering problems. You could be a great asset at an established pinball company.

    If you don't want me to say your prototype alpha build or whatever looks janky, then don't upload a video of it looking janky? I wouldn't say anything at all if it was a homebrew project, but this is now a commercial product. It seems like this is a project you've been working on for years, yet you don't have a final engineering prototype for your big reveal?

    #27 16 days ago

    Can't wait to play it OP, I'll be there with my homebrews, stop on by, good luck to you.

    #28 16 days ago

    Was just looking for that company! but forgot the name (Zizzle). What was the pricing on those!

    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    I think I've got enough chops to assemble something as a fun project

    Probably at least a year out from releasing any kits. They will be nicely priced as well.

    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    yet you don't have a final engineering prototype for your big reveal?

    I've had great feedback thus far when. 1 year ago today without working power, I had a family visit my booth saying they want to buy it when its ready. They are psyched there is a game they can afford and like the theme. I had a pre-order within 5 minutes of SFGE in Atlanta opening in July. I've had reservations to wait until Final build before drawing attention, but I think it's far enough along that people see the vision of where the final product can get to. I also understand that I've learned almost everything I know from making videogames, building guitars, building pinball machines comes from others brains. It helps to get feedback which is why I've had booths at tradeshows since 2019 so people can give feedback.

    #29 16 days ago

    Looks awesome and best of luck tapping into a potential low cost pinball market!

    Out of curiosity, what was the price difference between using off the shelf cheap components and software frameworks instead of trying to vertically integrate everything yourself?

    #30 16 days ago

    My constructive criticism: you might want to put some inserts on the game...

    I swear, I'm not trying to be mean...

    #31 16 days ago

    I’ll be interested in seeing the final product.

    #32 16 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    My constructive criticism: you might want to put some inserts on the game...
    I swear, I'm not trying to be mean...

    For sure. That's been last on the list as you cnc route and slam an insert in. Something I know can be done so global lighting and inserts haven't funneled to the top of my list. I'm also looking to get away from traditional off the shelf arrow and circle inlays. A lot of my focus has been stuff you see under the game. Such as redesigning flipper crank assemblies, coils.

    Quoted from Zambonilli:

    Out of curiosity, what was the price difference between using off the shelf cheap components and software frameworks instead of trying to vertically integrate everything yourself?

    Several main features in the video, there are no off the shelf springs/mechs/coils that would ever remotely work/fit. The simplest way I can say get the point across is here:
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-8438-00
    1.) Out of stock. 2.) Price I can assure you my optos cost nowhere near $60. And what do I do if Dot Matrix Displays or mosfet driver boards go out of stock?

    This also provides a lot of flexibility beyond price, to create future unique ideas. Stern's insider app and camera are proprietary. I have an idea if I go that route to do something similar, cheaper, and my own tech that would cost way less than slapping a camera in the game. I also like learning how everything works and have extensive programming experience.

    #33 16 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Several main features in the video, there are no off the shelf springs/mechs/coils that would ever remotely work/fit. The simplest way I can say get the point across is here:
    https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-8438-00
    1.) Out of stock. 2.) Price I can assure you my optos cost nowhere near $60. And what do I do if Dot Matrix Displays or mosfet driver boards go out of stock?
    This also provides a lot of flexibility beyond price, to create future unique ideas. Stern's insider app and camera are proprietary. I have an idea if I go that route to do something similar, cheaper, and my own tech that would cost way less than slapping a camera in the game. I also like learning how everything works and have extensive programming experience.

    Cool, love the risk taking and will keep an eye on this as you go.

    #34 16 days ago

    Are you working with or looking to bring on board established designers or top-tier players?

    Even a beautiful game will crash and burn if it doesn't play well (see Cosmic Carnival )

    #35 16 days ago
    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    Are you working with or looking to bring on board established designers or top-tier players?
    Even a beautiful game will crash and burn if it doesn't play well (see Cosmic Carnival )

    Yeah Cosmic Carnival crashed and burned because there was barely a game to play. It didn't do much beyond basic flipping, scoring, rudimentary light shows, and sounds. Yes that's the technical minimum to make "a game", but clearly no one wanted to pay for that "game" because it bored them after 30 minutes.

    Then again, Cosmic Carnival was around $5,500 new. Higher expectation for entertainment value.

    #36 16 days ago
    Quoted from Zambonilli:

    Cool, love the risk taking and will keep an eye on this as you go.

    Not much risk honestly. I've spent very very little money compared to Zidware/Deeproot to get this far. If at the end of the day I only sell 10, I make my money back and cool that someone gets to enjoy the game. Suncoast Pinball was another FL based company that made a game cosmic carnival for $7,000 some dollars. They made only like 20 or so units.

    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    Are you working with or looking to bring on board established designers or top-tier players?
    Even a beautiful game will crash and burn if it doesn't play well (see Cosmic Carnival )

    Not at the moment. Also, Cosmic Carnival again was $7,000. It's a tough market to compete and I'd rather not risk going head to head. My price could go up a tad bit, but I also recognize that this is a new brand that needs to gain trust.
    Everything has a cost and there is no budget today to hire designers, that likely are on exclusive agreements. Don't want to jump the gun too fast and get into debt. I think it may be cool to work with Scott from Total Nuclear Annihilation on something. I also think there are lots of casual players out there, that just making the most masterful intensely deep game ever, doesn't necessarily automatically = profit. It may be unrealistic that people walk out of playtesting saying this game overtakes Godzilla.

    Remember Magic Girl + Deeproot had professionals and millions of dollars and produced nothing. So stamping "Made by best pinball designer" on the box, as the highest priority item, doesn't mean too much to me (yet). Well get there in time. When I hit Beta (all gameplay and product features complete), I will be hosting some events at local pinball places around FL for feedback. There are some top rated players around that I've had contact with and will try to get playtesting.

    Right now the game is not "fun". Its soley a functional alpha with most features complete, and the product proven that it can be completed. More ramps, ball lock, extra stuff going in. The bottom playfield is going to get bigger and likely have extra gameplay changes.

    Well get there. All the other planned features currently in development are unique, and I think will be very cool. If I get 100+ pre-orders and there is a warrant to get expertise, then sure. I think tradeshow customers however are going to be a good form of feedback.

    Right now the physics programming in my pinball software is just a tad bit off, but I have this game working on PC right now as you can see in my other October Update video. So it may serve some purpose to have people play that, but its not the same as playing a physical game.

    #37 16 days ago

    Jon Norris gave a design to John Greatwich for basically nothing, just saying'

    You should ping him -- http://www.norrispinball.com/about.html -- "I offer my consulting services for no or little compensation just for the chance to become an active participant in pinball again."

    #38 16 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    Best of luck in the building and customer support. Pinball people aren't at all demanding...

    I will say one thing that you don't see behind the scenes is that I'm still looking at a couple pieces of proprietary features. One being possibly replacing coil stops completely if that tech pans out. I follow a group with thousands of members on facebook called Pinball Repair Help and I can't tell you how many times people say an opto switch stopped working and they have NO clue what to do or how to get replacement parts. Happens all the time. So I am actively trying to improve on what has been done for 25 years, whether it ends up working or not. Just have to wait and see what works.

    #39 16 days ago

    Thanks, will ping Jon when I get a little further along.

    #40 16 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    I will say one thing that you don't see behind the scenes is that I'm still looking at a couple pieces of proprietary features. One being possibly replacing coil stops completely if that tech pans out. I follow a group with thousands of members on facebook called Pinball Repair Help and I can't tell you how many times people say an opto switch stopped working and they have NO clue what to do or how to get replacement parts. Happens all the time. So I am actively trying to improve on what has been done for 25 years, whether it ends up working or not. Just have to wait and see what works.

    That's cool. Like I said, you seem like a smart and capable engineer. And you seem to realize how helpless a lot of pinball owners are...

    I'm curious, there are no physical switches in your inlanes. Is that a BOM decision? Or do you use magnetic switches like Heighway as a reliability feature so the switches never need adjustment (bonus, easier to install too. one PCB with all the associated lights and switches)

    #41 16 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    I'm curious, there are no physical switches in your inlanes.

    There will be switches. My next task is getting the ball-lock finished behind the temple door. It has a magnet to grab the ball and then raises on a pedestal like Indiana jones and it will stay up on there, glowing, until you unlock it.

    #42 16 days ago

    More info and pics here: https://www.pawlowskipinball.com/pinballeternal

    Wishing you good fortune!

    -7
    #43 16 days ago

    Go read the trailer trash pinball thread and get back to us.

    If this isn't a troll post, you are launching way too soon. You are still prototyping parts but have set your final price? Your first impression to people is a crude alpha build? Coming form the game industry I would think you know that you don't show the public your alpha builds. I mean in a world where everyone lost their minds over some of the janky production in AAA games like Cyberpunk, why would you want that to be people's first impression? I would also pull anything off the site you don't have secured license to sell unless you are trolling that hard and/or want Megadeth's lawyer's signature on a C&D.

    I can't wait until Ben or Levi sees this thread.

    #44 16 days ago

    When I first saw this thread I thought it was a homebrew game that would be fun to read about. I wasn't expecting a new pinball manufacturer.

    I'm following for sure.

    You aren't one of the people GWJ has been hinting about, are you?

    15
    #45 16 days ago
    Quoted from Apex:

    Go read the trailer trash pinball thread and get back to us.
    If this isn't a troll post, you are launching way too soon. You are still prototyping parts but have set your final price?

    You can ask nicely, or just assume I'm your enemy for some reason. I have personally spoken with Dave Mustaine and his management dating back to 2019. So why you are angry or trying to be Megadeths lawyer is beyond me. I love metal. The metal community are good people. Dave wants to do a pinball game. If any other manufacturer reads this and wants to secure the IP, go for it. I love pinball and metal regardless and can try for other IP's I have to possibly do. Every single band licensed for music on this thing are excited and positive about it. Some are pinball fans.

    I've built almost all parts, yes. 95% of R&D is behind me. I'm still building mechs. On average a mech with a coil costs me $5. So yes I can and very strategically have been solely focused on price and while not a direct bullseye, I'm in the green. The last time I ran a full update on my BOM on every piece to build the game was about 3 months ago. The circuitry is complete. A mosfet costs what a mosfet costs. Of all people I would know what my product costs....I built it.

    People PAY money to play alpha build games on Steam. It's called Early Access. I'm not a fan to play early games, but this is merely a trailer of what is in progress. I haven't asked for anyone's money and will refund at any point. I also don't have an exact release date just yet.

    Quoted from Apex:

    I can't wait until Ben or Levi sees this thread.

    By all means, if they offer good points and opinions, I would appreciate it. I don't know much about Levi, but I saw he was into metal and sent him a PM 5 months ago. He seemed intrigued and positive.

    Sure I'll check out the other thread mentioned and see what I can learn from it.

    There are tons of people on youtube like Steve Kondris who shares very early ideas he works on and I certainly appreciate that he does so. I think I'm at a very good point though to be announcing what is to come.

    #46 16 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Sure I'll check out the other thread mentioned and see what I can learn from it.

    lol, it's a thread about what not to do

    #47 16 days ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    You aren't one of the people GWJ has been hinting about, are you?

    Not sure the acronym, but possibly(?) I've been to some tradeshows and had some posts around the years.

    #48 16 days ago

    If pinball was easy Chinese manufacturers would be cranking out games and industrialize the process on a large scale.

    Think the niche is a-lot smaller than most people think.

    Good luck! on making it happen!

    #49 16 days ago

    thinking out of the box is good news .... nice to see how far you got so far with little investment and some ingenuity!

    good on you !

    #50 16 days ago

    OP what you are doing is very unique and interesting. I would strongly urge you not to take any skepticism or criticism too seriously or personally.

    There are 152 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.

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