(Topic ID: 325781)

Pinball Eternal Announcement (Official Thread)

By dpadam450

15 days ago


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    There are 150 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 12 days ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Nice to see this stuff continuing to progress. I think we've met at SFGE a couple of times.
    Regarding some of the conversation about UL listing, it certainly isn't required, but there's an awful lot of insurance (especially commercial) that won't cover any incidents surrounding non-UL listed equipment. That kinda depends on who your target market is though. As you mentioned some people don't care that other manufacturers don't have UL listings on their games. It matters for me personally though.
    You are probably ahead of me, but if you haven't, I'd recommend really digging in on the electrical engineering side in order to make sure you have protections and other things in place to prevent issues like coils locking on, fires, shorts, safe grounding on all metal parts, etc...
    Have you done any measured tests to compare impact strength, transit time and other variables with your coils versus standard ones? Very curious about those.

    Good points ...
    Extreme case, but what's the liability without UL listing if your game catches fire and burns down someone's house?
    Hope you have a large umbrella policy - Business insurance, one of the many overhead costs that need to be included in the cost of a product.

    #102 12 days ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    Good points ...
    Extreme case, but what's the liability without UL listing if your game catches fire and burns down someone's house?
    Hope you have a large umbrella policy - Business insurance, one of the many overhead costs that need to be included in the cost of a product.

    It's definitely a good idea to go down that route. The current cost of UL testing a standard high voltage (>24VAC) PCBA is around 15-20k with around 12 months of lead time before your product even gets tested at Northbrook. If you did get your boards and coils tested you would also need to tweak your BOM so the key components (coil wire, wiring looms, ps conponents, etc) are UL recognized/listed. So thats a higher BOM, higher upfront costs from testing and you would be paying for yearly inspections of your manufacturing site. You'd need to sell a shitload of machines before you would break even on that kind of cost.

    You could also go ETL instead of UL, but the cost and time savings still wouldn't beat just getting insurance.

    #103 12 days ago

    Facts

    Game looks cool and looks fun to shoot, wasn't working when I came by. OP is a nice guy, and it's slightly bigger than a zizzle

    #104 12 days ago

    Random thoughts:

    1. I love this is out of the box thinking.
    2. The price point is fantastic and will generate sales.
    3. The initiative to make all your own mechs is really neat.
    4. I trust you have calculated your price in view of your costs.
    5. When finished I would buy one for my arcade.

    HOWEVER:

    6. Your launch as indicated by the product video is too early. It’s an definitely cool but unrefined prototype. You are at least a year out from any shipping product.
    7. The deposit before it’s finished, no matter how small, no matter what you say about refundability is worrisome given it follows a well worn definitely NOT outside the box playbook and is a non starter for me.
    8. Your price worries me and makes me question whether ALL costs of being a business have been fully considered beyond BOM.

    I would love to be proven wrong on 6-8. Count me in once the early adopters have given their thumbs up and units are ready and assembled to be shipped.

    #105 11 days ago

    For the record I want him to succeed. I want him to deliver a fully fleshed out working pinball machine for 2K. I want him to add pressure to the established companies by adding competition in order to bring down prices. I want him to succeed so there is a path for other creators and dreamers to take the next step.

    I referenced the Trailer Trash thread as an example for him to take a look at all the questions that people are going to ask. His caviler demeanor when asked a few questions has a similar feel to the creator in that thread. He has looked into some of the history associated with some infamous startups, but not sure he has seen how his casual mention of IP is very similar to Predator, or how Spooky had to kill themselves to make and sell 150 AMHs. Another thing to think about is how zizzle and stern home games have not been all that well received here despite their price point (Jurassic park home edition seems to be the exception).

    Op sorry I called your prototype crude, but there are many rough edges on it in terms of a finished design. One thing I would say you did well is to include things that are cheap but add perceived value, like your subways and ramps as well as you animated sculpts. One place to look at that could help improve your gameplay could be to add more posts and rubber to keep things from just bouncing off the playfield perimeter rails. Probably could look into rubber instead of some of the long straight wire guides too. Also the general guidance rom many of the designers is that they say you have to make sure the playfield is fun to shoot without your toys and novelties.

    Good luck with the rest of the launch and at Freeplay.

    #106 10 days ago

    Will be back to do a video update on the many comments/topics. Much easier to converse than type. Just a quick link. Here is UL's website.

    https://productiq.ulprospector.com/en/search

    "Stern Pinball", "Jersey Jack" show up. Homepin, Spooky, American Pinball, Multimorphic, Pinball Brothers. Unless doing business under different names (Spooky is registered as Spooky under Secretary of State in WI), then not too many companies are UL. Doesn't mean I'm super lax on electrical standards and ignorant of testing. Will message anyone that thinks they can help in a specific task I have ahead.

    #107 10 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Will be back to do a video update on the many comments/topics. Much easier to converse than type. Just a quick link. Here is UL's website.
    https://productiq.ulprospector.com/en/search
    "Stern Pinball", "Jersey Jack" show up. Homepin, Spooky, American Pinball, Multimorphic, Pinball Brothers. Unless doing business under different names (Spooky is registered as Spooky under Secretary of State in WI), then not too many companies are UL. Doesn't mean I'm super lax on electrical standards and ignorant of testing. Will message anyone that thinks they can help in a specific task I have ahead.

    I guess as long as you are carrying product liability insurance

    #108 9 days ago

    Nice work!

    #109 9 days ago
    Quoted from ProjektPat:

    Love what you're doing here, wish all the haters would just shut it and let you do your thing. Is the video you posted essentially the final board layout just unpolished or will there be more things added to the playfield? Will there be game objectives or is it more of a high score thing? I'm also located in the Orlando area.

    Sent you a PM, get in contact [email protected]. If you are down the road you might as well wait. You can stop by and play anytime, just let me get some real gameplay in.

    #110 9 days ago

    As long as you are using UL approved components, then things should be fine.

    UL certification is not required by any laws in the US, but some buildings, companies, etc will not work with a product without it having UL approval for insurance purposes. But no you are not required to get your product UL certified in the US.

    #111 9 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    As long as you are using UL approved components, then things should be fine.

    Right, and if you take just a small step back too. Cobrapin is an EE guy that sells DIY boards for pinball controllers. FAST pinball sells boards. Neither are UL. And there is no innovation in board design. You have mosfets and you have fuses. Everyone is dong identical circuitry to turn on coils. Stern uses electronic fuses anymore, but I'm not sure if on the modern games they still have at least one fuse somewhere in case something is not right. I'm looking at doing some electronic circuit protection as well with opto decoupling.

    I'll be back on to do a quick video update today or tomorrow.

    #112 9 days ago

    Taxes, Labor, Materials and rainy day? Think there was a big bang episode that shows the pitfalls of boutique manufacturing.

    To have a healthy business you gotta factor in if it's worth your time..

    I learned that lesson much too late in my first business endeavors.

    Ended up paying Uncle Sam back taxes and cheating myself out of $ in the end.
    I could of charged X dollars an hour comfortably but undersold my hourly. It eventually
    paid dividends but only after learning how to be competitive in business without underselling
    hourly wages.

    You can't get back time so don't undersell yourself.

    #113 8 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    As long as you are using UL approved components, then things should be fine.
    UL certification is not required by any laws in the US, but some buildings, companies, etc will not work with a product without it having UL approval for insurance purposes. But no you are not required to get your product UL certified in the US.

    Not wanting to go all "um, akshually" here, but technically this is incorrect. There is more than one state that requires UL/ETL/CSA approval in order to have equipment "hardwired" into its install location. The most notable example is Washington. Once again, if you are bringing an electrical product to market I recommend consulting someone who is an expert in UL. When you submit a "request for quote" with UL you will have the opportunity to talk this over with UL representatives. You have to do your due diligence to make sure your product is legal in the area you're selling it. In this case, UL approval should not be required. But OP needs to figure out what will benefit him more in the long run - regulatory approval that isn't necessarily needed or insurance coverage in case something goes wrong.

    IMO any savvy business owner will have liability insurance whether they think they need it or not. It's up to OP to figure out if sales will outweigh the high costs of regulatory approval.

    #114 8 days ago

    OMG, can we put ths UL talk to bed. I want to see pinball.

    #115 8 days ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    OMG, can we put ths UL talk to bed. I want to see pinball.

    Unfortunately this is required discussion for almost every commercial product launch. You said it best on page 2, "This is a discussion form after all"

    #116 8 days ago

    Think he's just bored on the topic. UL has been something I've looked and will look into again at some point. Spooky sells games. We will get there in time. Gameplay videos will come at some point. Don't want to release features one by one (I don't think), so I'll bring hopefully get a few more done and shown in December.

    #117 8 days ago
    Quoted from bdw85:

    Unfortunately this is required discussion for almost every commercial product launch. You said it best on page 2, "This is a discussion form after all"

    It is, but sometimes:

    Screen Shot 2022-11-22 at 11.01.40 PM (resized).png

    #118 8 days ago

    UL is optional, but can cost some sales to businesses that require it for insurance or other reasons.

    FCC and CE that’s a different story. And with FCC you also have to decide on class A or class B.

    #119 8 days ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    FCC and CE that’s a different story. And with FCC you also have to decide on class A or class B.

    I dabbled with FCC recently. Will look again but on their own site, as an un-intentional transmitter and the frequency etc, it said that it was not necessary. PinMonk has told me that Stern coils run extremely cool when holding flippers, as opposed to others. It may be that they pulse their flipper coils at a higher frequency and this is why they have FCC approval. Gomez mentioned FCC in an old video talking about Spike 2 Don't own a spooky game, but curious if they have an FCC stamp on their circuit boards.

    #120 8 days ago

    Cool. Very cool. Regarding the price fairness, that is really commendable. I believe CGC had an expressed effort to keep NIB machine prices down, but those machines are still scalped in the aftermarket. I wonder if the same happens here, even with the noble attempt at price control.

    #121 8 days ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    are still scalped in the aftermarket.

    Nobody wants to resell epic death metal pinball \m/ \m/ I think it will be pretty epic all said and done. No rush to put something lame out. But also, I think the people signing up for pre-orders are the people that don't have a game already. So I can't imagine they just start selling them. If they flip for $2k profit, that leaves you with some extra cash but you still can't afford any other pinball machine.

    #122 8 days ago

    Video ran a bit long, but for anyone interested, just a brain dump. Hopefully we can stop re-iterating the same things going forward. I will be ignoring any pricing questions and any UL questions. Really not much else left to talk about.

    Some notes:
    +At the lowest expectations, I think putting UL and business aside, I think I will make a cool game. Tech is there, let me prove out gameplay.
    +Pricing can change, whether on Pinball Eternal, or 2 years on another IP, but I wanted a price on it for the trailer. $2,100 will never be a loss. Well see where we get.
    +No release date listed right now, but sometime in 2023 is target.
    +FPF I met American Pinball VP, Jersey Jack marketing, Marco marketing(met prior), David from Pinball Asylum (hosted IFPA this year, met prior), Pinball Pimp(met prior)
    +Small sampling of my part pricing and prior videos testing parts.
    +Background of my technical, creative, other knowledge.
    +Cabinet size is going to change a little but still planning to be different sized from what is out there.
    +Take IP seriously. I own rights. Megadeth is aware of me. There has been no cease and desist in 3 years. Dave wants to do a game and I'm the only person to show initiative to make a Megadeth game prototype.

    A couple things I forgot to address. MBecker - not planning on have massively crazy light shows, but I will have some inlays on the board. I'm trying to move lights around, not just on playfield.

    I was going to mention as well that I already have code from 10 years ago that can link 2 phones in real time to play games, add users, track high scores in a database. All this tech can be used to recreate Stern Insider app in a couple days. Hooking up to my pinball board is easy as long as I have a wifi module on it. I see Stern has a patent on "Networked Pinball Machines". So I'll have to look at that. US patent office grants too many patents as it is and that would be lame if it restricts me from putting online code in my games.

    Temple skull printed 120mm/s on printer. Just a test print which is why it looks bad. Reference for moving lights off the playfield and onto other areas.
    Temple (resized).png

    #123 8 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Video ran a bit long, but for anyone interested, just a brain dump. Hopefully we can stop re-iterating the same things going forward. I will be ignoring any pricing questions and any UL questions. Really not much else left to talk about.
    Some notes:
    +At the lowest expectations, I think putting UL and business aside, I think I will make a cool game. Tech is there, let me prove out gameplay.
    +Pricing can change, whether on Pinball Eternal, or 2 years on another IP, but I wanted a price on it for the trailer. $2,100 will never be a loss. Well see where we get.
    +No release date listed right now, but sometime in 2023 is target.
    +FPF I met American Pinball VP, Jersey Jack marketing, Marco marketing(met prior), David from Pinball Asylum (hosted IFPA this year, met prior), Pinball Pimp(met prior)
    +Small sampling of my part pricing and prior videos testing parts.
    +Background of my technical, creative, other knowledge.
    +Cabinet size is going to change a little but still planning to be different sized from what is out there.

    A couple things I forgot to address. MBecker - not planning on have massively crazy light shows, but I will have some inlays on the board. I'm trying to move lights around, not just on playfield.
    I was going to mention as well that I already have code from 10 years ago that can link 2 phones in real time to play games, add users, track high scores in a database. All this tech can be used to recreate Stern Insider app in a couple days. Hooking up to my pinball board is easy as long as I have a wifi module on it. I see Stern has a patent on "Networked Pinball Machines". So I'll have to look at that. US patent office grants too many patents as it is and that would be lame if it restricts me from putting online code in my games.
    Temple skull printed 120mm/s on printer. Just a test print which is why it looks bad. Reference for moving lights off the playfield and onto other areas.
    [quoted image]

    All pretty cool stuff my man, thanks for posting the video!

    #124 8 days ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:OMG, can we put ths UL talk to bed. I want to see pinball.

    My view is that once someone wants to make an offering as a company for money, questions like these become a natural part of the evaluation process.

    Having said that, I think it's really cool he is trying all of this. The questions I ask are intended to help him think through the engineering process. A way to help share my own experience and knowledge without being too forward.

    Looking forward to seeing the game at sfge if you'll have it there this year!

    #125 8 days ago

    Wolfmarsh

    The big bonus to doing my own coils is I can make cool toys like the 4x spike sequence. The coils are very thin and long and I tweak them to the power I need. I also have to make them fit in a tight space. Here you can see the magnetized rod is a simple straight 9-gauge piece of steel wire. The spike screws in from the top of coil if you ever need to perform maintenance.

    Coil (resized).png
    My electric demon shock coil is a very small 32 gauge right now. It's ~30ohm I believe and runs in parallel with another 12ohm 26 gauge that brings the current flow down and was to be shared with other small coils. It has a custom spring and the plunger is a simple galvanized roofing nail. Probably will just switch to a 12v supply on it at the same power rating.

    Demon Coil (resized).png

    My flipper coils currently are 3.0Ohm. Stern are 4.55Ohm. I investigated pulse times on here and it looks like a decent amount of Stern pulse times were ~40ms. My pulse time is 20ms. (506Watt vs 768Watt/halftime = 384Watt). So pending my mosfets stay happy with the higher current spike, my flippers run a bit better and with less wire wrapped, less clumped heating. But no official tests long-term yet.

    #126 8 days ago

    "The Golden Butthole"

    Hadn't heard that before, but I'm definitely using it now

    #127 8 days ago

    Wife misses living in Atlanta, but I didn't plan to go again since I've gone a couple years and I don't want to sign up for a show unless I have full working/tested games.

    #128 8 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Wolfmarsh
    The big bonus to doing my own coils is I can make cool toys like the 4x spike sequence. The coils are very thin and long and I tweak them to the power I need. I also have to make them fit in a tight space. Here you can see the magnetized rod is a simple straight 9-gauge piece of steel wire. The spike screws in from the top of coil if you ever need to perform maintenance.
    My electric demon shock coil is a very small 32 gauge right now. It's ~30ohm I believe and runs in parallel with another 12ohm 26 gauge that brings the current flow down and was to be shared with other small coils. It has a custom spring and the plunger is a simple galvanized roofing nail.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Very cool!

    #129 8 days ago

    Updated the prior comment with extra info you would be interested in.^^^

    #130 8 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Updated the prior comment with extra info you would be interested in.^^^

    This is great stuff!

    I think your plan to show up to something like and SFGE with done games is pretty solid. I've always thought if someone arrived at a show and had a box truck with 10-20 "new to the market" games in it to sell, they'd be easy sales.

    #131 8 days ago

    Hey Adam,

    Thanks for the video covering all the questions, that was great! Where can we get more Metal shred videos of you tho?? haha, I enjoyed that - looked like some mad alternate picking? - I've played music as a hobby for a long time as well but never got in the practice to learn to shred. If this idea takes off, you may need to do your own music for one!

    Guess at this point we just have to see how much and how far you can go in 2023 towards getting those 5 production games put together. Would def. work out a lot of the code beforehand - just because it could end up impacting your layout and particularly # of and placement of inserts.

    I like how you lit up that drop target in your example above -- but also want to point to the importance of inserts as an indicator to the player not only of game progress but what to shoot next, what shots are tied to what mode at any time, etc. Moving lights off the playfield may simplify the underside & wiring but esp w/out an LCD as an alternate way to talk to the player - you're down to using audio callouts which often get lost in the music. It all depends on what you're going for of course, but what is going to make the game 'fun' likely now involves a good deal of not only coding and goals to achieve, but in getting information across to the player so they know what's going on in the short-term and long-term progress of the current ball and the current game.

    Hope 2023 is a productive year for you! Hope to see some code & gameplay early next year

    #132 8 days ago

    Here are my other pages. And most notable song I wrote (speedwise).

    https://www.youtube.com/adamgtr86

    https://www.youtube.com/dpadam450

    https://www.artstation.com/dpadam450

    I've been thinking to do an idea like this, where it shows the shot route via inlay line and not just an indicator in front of what to shoot.

    Gmae inlays (resized).png
    Talking with the guy who built the Elf homebrew, he has a magnet coil that stops the ball 3 inches from a secondary flipper. He was next to my booth and I watched people STILL not see or know there was a secondary flipper. Same on the Simpsons game, and that one even auto flips 3 times to indicate to player there is a flipper present. I'm approaching these kind of ideas more as a videogame designer. I hate not truly knowing what points I'm getting per shot or what is the best target to hit at the moment. Just everything flashing all day long. I'd like to display some kind of score feedback/multiplier via board inserts, not just flashing lights everywhere. And I don't like to study every game text at the local arcade or watch youtube tutorials how to get the best scores. I'm more casual. Even at that, I still had to watch youtube tutorials on the Metallica game that I've played so many times and sometimes it crosses fun vs tedious studying. (my opinion) In terms of baby-feeding and indicating, I'm actually looking to be way more aggressive on giving player feedback such as the ball route lines above potentially.

    Again on Metallica, Sparky is pretty obvious to hit and know that he gets electrocuted into multi-bull. I played the Star wars game that has the death star circle wireform that goes around the whole game. Super cool effect, but I never got it again and never figured out how to when I was at the arcade recently.

    #133 8 days ago

    Wolfmarsh
    You said you wouldn't play with anything not UL. I guess you trust yourself since you made your own game, but for the boards and what not, what did you make Spaceballs on?

    #134 8 days ago

    I also considered the armature angle when the solenoid engages to see if the initial stroke being more powerful (at 90 degrees to the lever) might help get a better kick. I iterated a bunch of designs in the past, so I'll come back to this when my assembly is finalized and see if there is any benefit.
    coil angle (resized).png

    #135 7 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Wolfmarsh
    You said you wouldn't play with anything not UL. I guess you trust yourself since you made your own game, but for the boards and what not, what did you make Spaceballs on?

    I was wondering when this question would come up.

    I will -play- every game, I just won't buy games that I think have sub-standard engineering. This is probably going to come off egotistical to those who aren't familiar with my work, but I definitely consider my own personal engineering skills to be greater than someone like a Homepin or others that I won't put on blast in this thread.

    Spaceballs was built on FAST. I have had lots of great conversations with Dave Beecher, the main FAST engineer. Very smart guy that has a lot of experience bringing devices safely to market. The FAST group will even help people take a commercial product through UL, FCC, and CE.

    While I put a tremendous amount of thought into the engineering and craftsmanship in Spaceballs, it's still a homebrew that I've not tried to sell to anyone. In the end I'm only responsible to myself and my family.

    #136 7 days ago

    3rd flippers .. yeah non-pinball people almost always miss those it's very true. But for them, indicator lights are also pretty much a loss.. I was shooting more for someone who likes pinball enough to buy one - for which I'd expect they are familiar with 3rd/4th flippers and generally that "flashing shots are good". I'm with you in that today, I'm generally not going to read thru a full ruleset.. I prefer to explore a game and figure it out on my own maybe with a few tips along the way. Maxing out points tournament style tho is much less fun for me vs. just trying to finish all the goals and get wizard mode.. but that's just me.

    Anyway, those lines you are showing - are you saying they would be drawn on the PF or they would be mini lighted inserts, like Dialed In has for the 2 shots back to the flippers where the game shoots back at you or even smaller, say like the GnR mini inserts on all the map cities? If you could make them all lighted ones so you can flash them in sequence w/out it being cluttered that would be pretty cool vs large inserts for the shots. Hard to imagine it wouldn't get cluttered tho if you wanted to use them for every shot.. thus why larger inserts closer to shots traditionally I think. Sounds like whatever you go with, you're def. thinking a lot about communication to the player about status and what's going on so that's good.

    #137 7 days ago

    With all do respect to the OP. This game wasn't working or flipping any of the times I walked by, I assumed it was before Freeplay because of the video posted here. You couldn't even play it to get a ball stuck!

    This thread is WAY ahead of it's time. The OP is close to having a working game. But year to year what I've seen at Freeplay the game hasn't advanced much.

    WAY too early to put energy into arguing the semantics of UL and coil design and all this other bullshit. You gotta get the game to flip and play. Get THAT done first. If you can't figure it out use relay's like our forefathers.

    #138 7 days ago
    Quoted from bdw85:

    Not wanting to go all "um, akshually" here, but technically this is incorrect. There is more than one state that requires UL/ETL/CSA approval in order to have equipment "hardwired" into its install location. The most notable example is Washington. Once again, if you are bringing an electrical product to market I recommend consulting someone who is an expert in UL. When you submit a "request for quote" with UL you will have the opportunity to talk this over with UL representatives. You have to do your due diligence to make sure your product is legal in the area you're selling it. In this case, UL approval should not be required. But OP needs to figure out what will benefit him more in the long run - regulatory approval that isn't necessarily needed or insurance coverage in case something goes wrong.
    IMO any savvy business owner will have liability insurance whether they think they need it or not. It's up to OP to figure out if sales will outweigh the high costs of regulatory approval.

    And that again doesn't fall onto the manufacturer, it's up to the purchaser whether they can or will purchase that item and be able to have it on site, or carry it for resale. For a small run product that is not going to be resold in any major retailer outlet, and likely not gonna be used for commercial usage, that really is not important, and even then doesn't prevent the manufacturer from selling said product himself. The limitations fall on the purchaser whether they actually take in such a product. Hardwired install location also is something not happening with a product like this

    This guy is in FL, we have worked with lawyers and such on manufacturing here and the topic of UL is pretty much moot here. Clearly it's safer to get it done if you can afford it, but many consumer products aren't fully approved as well, and simply feature UL components. You can pretty much sell the product to anywhere, but it's up to the buyers themselves. Some companies will clearly not touch a product without that approval, but I doubt that's gonna happen here, and as others have noted, not every one making pins is even doing it. So why is this such an issue if all these manufacturers everyone has no issue buying pins from are not even doing it themselves?

    #139 7 days ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    With all do respect to the OP. This game wasn't working or flipping any of the times I walked by, I assumed it was before Freeplay because of the video posted here. You couldn't even play it to get a ball stuck!

    For sure it was a personal failure that it did break down, and I haven't assessed or touched it yet. But doesn't mean all my work is lost. Once it had an issue, I briefly looked to see but didn't want to do something dumb and ruin the whole board in attempts to get a couple scoops and flippers working. I think you are the DragonBallZ guy(?) I would have gladly laughed at my game with you. I did with Bob and he made a super badass Elf game. I had a great time talking with him. Could have talked in person.....I was there next to you all day. Very self-aware of happy to be critical of my product.

    If you don't want to support me or be awkward at the next Free Play, I don't know. I never asked to be enemies and I enjoyed watching you open your games and admire the relay system you have in your two games.

    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    You gotta get the game to flip and play.

    You have to understand, I got into this 4 years ago not to make the funnest game in the world up-front. Not to be a homebrew game. I did this to R&D if it were possible to bring something different to the market. I don't want to risk my life savings competing with the best pinball companies in the world at the quality/price-point they have. That's a certain way to lose.

    Either way, I was cordial and respectful to you in person.

    #140 7 days ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I was wondering when this question would come up.

    All good, was just curious.

    Quoted from Mbecker:

    yeah non-pinball people almost always miss those it's very true

    Most people in person do not even know that the bottom playfield I have is actually playable.

    Quoted from Mbecker:

    drawn on the PF or they would be mini lighted inserts

    Not sure I'll do it, but it would be either routed dotted line with individual lights, or solid line and filled in with epoxy. OR possibly EL-Wire or something else.

    #141 7 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Gomez mentioned FCC in an old video talking about Spike 2 Don't own a spooky game, but curious if they have an FCC stamp on their circuit boards.

    FCC part 15 testing is not done at the board level, it is done at the product level. And yes, it is required. I'm willing to bet even as an unintentional radiator, you have a clock frequency above the cutoff. There is also the conducted emissions testing that will be required on the power cable.

    #142 7 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    For sure it was a personal failure that it did break down, and I haven't assessed or touched it yet. But doesn't mean all my work is lost. Once it had an issue, I briefly looked to see but didn't want to do something dumb and ruin the whole board in attempts to get a couple scoops and flippers working. I think you are the DragonBallZ guy(?) I would have gladly laughed at my game with you. I did with Bob and he made a super badass Elf game. I had a great time talking with him. Could have talked in person.....I was there next to you all day. Very self-aware of happy to be critical of my product.
    If you don't want to support me or be awkward at the next Free Play, I don't know. I never asked to be enemies and I enjoyed watching you open your games and admire the relay system you have in your two games.

    You have to understand, I got into this 4 years ago not to make the funnest game in the world up-front. Not to be a homebrew game. I did this to R&D if it were possible to bring something different to the market. I don't want to risk my life savings competing with the best pinball companies in the world at the quality/price-point they have. That's a certain way to lose.
    Either way, I was cordial and respectful to you in person.

    I think you're taking this the wrong way or I presented it the wrong way I'm merely saying you have to get this game flipping if you want any kind of traction on it to build up the potential of possibly manufacturing this game. I can't stress this enough you HAVE to get the game working for anyone to believe in you!

    Based on what I saw I believe you have the skills, the support works both ways you didn't buy my shirt I didn't buy yours,

    Honestly I was there to plant my games get some notoriety, raise some money for childhood Cancer, and drink my face off with my buddies.
    I accomplished 2 out of 3.

    See you next year.

    #143 7 days ago

    This thread sure has gotten weird.

    #144 7 days ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    FCC part 15 testing is not done at the board level, it is done at the product level. And yes, it is required. I'm willing to bet even as an unintentional radiator, you have a clock frequency above the cutoff. There is also the conducted emissions testing that will be required on the power cable.

    Send me a link if you got other info. I only brushed the surface on FCC. As the other guy said, I have to get a game flipping before I care too much about getting my FCC stamp. Just doesn't make much sense. Yes if FCC+UL force me to raise a price, for sure. But again at this point guys. Let me make a game to even be sellable.

    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    I can't stress this enough you HAVE to get the game working for anyone to believe in you!

    Heard. For sure.

    #145 7 days ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    Send me a link if you got other info.

    https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15

    i'd be happy to talk through it when you get to that point, but know that it is required.

    #146 7 days ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15
    i'd be happy to talk through it when you get to that point, but know that it is required.

    I'll take offline real quick not to derail the thread.

    #147 7 days ago
    Quoted from splickety_lit:

    This thread sure has gotten weird.

    I think one could argue that it started weird.

    Hey, good luck dpadam450 I can tell you're very passionate about what you're doing.

    My honest advice, if you care to hear it, is that telling people you've been working on something for 4 years, and then also telling them you don't think it's fun (your words not mine) and it's not close to done (you said it's missing a ramp, and a couple shots, and the board length isn't even right) just sounds like you're maybe very excited to share your passion, but not really ready to show a product.

    It's cool that you can make your own coils for $5. But pre-made coils are $15 off the shelf, and they probably didn't cost the factory who made them $5. Winding your coils is some Homepin shit, but you don't live in China with a bunch of cheap labor to wind things for you. You really want to spend your nights sitting there winding coils?

    Anyways, don't let me tell you how to run your business, just trying to give some feedback based on what you've been saying, best of luck.

    #148 7 days ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    telling people you've been working on something for 4 years, and then also telling them you don't think it's fun

    I didn't spend 4 years building a fun game. I spent 4 years designing a manufacturing process and tech. I would have to be massively naive to believe my game is awesome from a gameplay perspective and defend it as such. After today, it's Thanksgiving in the USA and then I'm back to work, I'll likely only respond to specific inquiries from here on out. I do plan to build winding machines just like guitar manufacturers wind pickups.....at some point.

    Every record label I worked with on this game thinks it's cool. Every band. People understand you come into recording a new record with rough guitar riffs. This is early, but as far as product dev and design, it's in pretty good shape to take to the finish line in 2023. You either see that this can get better than this, or that this is all there is to it.

    1 week later
    #149 20 hours ago

    Just curious if there is a gameplay video? If not when do you think we can see some flipping? Keep up the great work by the way. You may be onto something here. Best of luck.

    #150 1 hour ago
    Quoted from digitaldocc:

    If not when do you think we can see some flipping?

    Maybe January. I think I blew a decent amount of traction showing the game early, and I'd like the next reveal to be even bigger, instead of just releasing things piece by piece. Follow on YT or social, and I'll be posting here at some point. I've started to save some things for an update video on general things more R&D/business so well see if I get enough content. Likely January for that.

    There are 150 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.

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